989 réponses à ce sujet

[Estel78]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Yet you say you don't object to the devs when they stated that the game looks far better(ergo, much better graphical improvement) than whats shown on the scans. 

Premise1) You say that the game wont have much of a graphical improvement.
Premise2) The devs have stated that the graphics are "more striking" therefore much better than the ones on the scan.
Premise3) You say you don't disagree with what the devs said.

Conclusion : You contradict yourself thus making you look more foolish than you already are.

Besides, its not difficult to improve on ground textures and lightning which the way i see it, are the only problems so far.

 But keep em coming.

Please show me a quote from a dev stating the game already looks FAR better than on those screenshots. I know of Gaider saying it looks better, yes. Better does not equal FAR better, though. It could mean anything.

Besides, what one person might consider a big improvement another person might not, it's a matter of interpretation.

And lastly, i wouldn't take everything a dev says at face value. Of course they'll say it's not final and they are still working on it and well, they definitely are still working on it but how much of that work will be visible at the end is anyones guess. I remember back when some of the community complained about the awful walking animation in DAO when in battle, a dev said we shouldn't worry too much, they're still tweaking the animations. All PR speak to appease to the community coz guess what, the awful walking animation made it into the final game.

[Jimmy Fury]

one more quick clarification.

I never said that marketing technique was absolutely positively what they were doing. I only said it is a viable marketing technique that has been used before and is therefore a possibility.

However, I do maintain that they did release images from an older build for some reason (maybe not that precise reason, there could be others) because that's what they did...

[Thiefy]

just by looking at the screenies you can tell that it's clearly not finished. anyone who has worked with/studied models or backgrounds can tell you that. there's still a lot of little detail that needs to be fleshed out and tweaked, and those can certainly make a big difference in how a player looks at the game world.



anyway, 9 monthes may sound like a lot of time, or not enough time, but in actually it really depends on the team and the resources they have to work it. given the fact that DA:O was such a success I think it's safe to say that the bioware/dragon age team did something right and we should trust their judgement for this installment as well. they can't succeed if we dont give them the oppertunity to.



i really just hope and wish that the game doesn't get pushed back by another 6 months or so because there were too many complaints about the Ogre's shoulder pad were too pointy or some other nonsense like that.

[Vicious]

All I can really say is that the game already looks better than it does in those screenshots

There's the quote. From David G. pick it apart all you want, but there it is.

i'm buying for sure.

Modifié par Vicious, 16 juillet 2010 - 04:57 .

[tmp7704]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

However, I do maintain that they did release images from an older build for some reason (maybe not that precise reason, there could be others) because that's what they did...

I think it's quite logical to presume the released screenshots were from up-to-date game at the moment these screenshots were taken. There's some delay in the process of the screenshots then getting approved for release and preparation of the article and the magazine itself. Meantime the development of the game in BioWare obviously isn't frozen and the game continues to change, creating the disparity between what the devs get to see and what the gamers get to see, when these screenshots are shown to the general public.

[Estel78]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I wonder who to listen to... you, just some random joe or the developers that actually stated that these arent the final graphics...

Maybe i wasn't clear enough. There are voices here (or one voice) claiming Bioware purposely released images from an older build of the game EVEN THOUGH they're already on a much later build that looks much better. I say that's bollocks. The developer/publisher always wants to show off their product in the best light to leave a lasting impression, especially when it's about the unveiling of their newest game, thus they will release their latest and greatest as far as press material goes and sometimes even fudge the pictures so that they look better than the actual game does.

I'm going to say this as simply as possible this time since you are obsessed with nitpicking every statement contrary to yours. -edit. my bad nitpicking was the wrong word, "dismissing" is more accurate-

Yes. Bioware purposely released images from an earlier build and are already on a later build that looks better. I'm not throwing in those "much" qualifiers you added in to make yourself look right. I never said much. I simply said different build.
And I can absolutely prove in the most inarguable way possible.

Kirby and Gaider have ALREADY confirmed those images are from an early build and that the stuff they're seeing in development right now is "much better" (gaiders words not mine)
It has already occured. I don't comprehend how one could possibly argue that it isn't the case when it has already been done.
The images were released by bioware this week and they are (this week) on a better build already.
Your "time of print" argument is invalid because we aren't looking at these images in print we are looking at them online. They are not in print.

So all of your arguments about how it would never happen, how they were the only ones available when GI went to print, how no company in their right minds would ever do that, etc. Are all definitively provably incorrect.
It did happen.
The images are not in print they are online.
Bioware released them. They didn't just magically appear out of thin air.
Gaider and Kirby confirmed these are from an earlier build.

I really don't understand how this can possibly still be a debate.

(and for the record I spent 3 hellish years working in marketing for a major energy drink company, I've seen much much much more insane tactics than the one I spoke of earlier.)

You're just wrong. No company would purposely make their product look worse than it actually is. I can't even believe you're arguing that.

My "time of print" point is not invalid. Companies have their time windows where they decide to release new marketing material. The images you see on the internet and in the GI magazine are from the same batch of images. Because those imagines could already be a few weeks old it's logical to assume that internally they're already working with a newer build that received a few tweaks.

[Estel78]

tmp7704 wrote...

I think it's quite logical to presume the released screenshots were from up-to-date game at the moment these screenshots were taken. There's some delay in the process of the screenshots then getting approved for release and preparation of the article and the magazine itself. Meantime the development of the game in BioWare obviously isn't frozen and the game continues to change, creating the disparity between what the devs get to see and what the gamers get to see, when these screenshots are shown to the general public.

Bingo!

[Jimmy Fury]

Estel78 wrote...
You're just wrong. No company would purposely make their product look worse than it actually is. I can't even believe you're arguing that.

I'm not arguing that and I never did. Show me one place where I said "companies will intentionally make their product look worse than it actually is." Never said it. I said companies will and do release images and other information that doesn't fully represent the final product.
I said developmental process images can be used to show how the production is moving over time.
I said it's a functional marketing technique that has been used before and I provided proof of it's use in film and in video games ( the latter back here on page 25: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3108691/25#3117282  )
I never said "Bioware put these out to make the game look like crap" I said "Bioware might have put these out to show what the earlier work looked like so we can see the improvements as more images are released."
Specifcally, my entire argument was to say that these are not the final product and it's still a bit early to claim absolutely that the game will have worse graphics than Origins. That's all I was attempting to convey, if you misunderstood that then I apologize for not being clear.

So yes, it's also very possible that these were the only images available when the first run of marketing materials were being compiled. That does not in any way change anything I said. It actually supports my overall argument that these are from an earlier build.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:23 .

[Estel78]

So basically you're making a case for stuff we already know, i.e. that these images are not from the final build.



Why are we arguing again? *confused*

[Jimmy Fury]

Estel78 wrote...

So basically you're making a case for stuff we already know, i.e. that these images are not from the final build.

Why are we arguing again? *confused*

Exactly! And I have no idea!

[Roland Aseph]

Vicious wrote...

All I can really say is that the game already looks better than it does in those screenshots

There's the quote. From David G. pick it apart all you want, but there it is.

i'm buying for sure.

Looking better than it does in "those" screenshots...does not mean it's going to look better than DAO or even close to it lol

[Grommash94]

Roland Aseph wrote...

Vicious wrote...

All I can really say is that the game already looks better than it does in those screenshots

There's the quote. From David G. pick it apart all you want, but there it is.

i'm buying for sure.

Looking better than it does in "those" screenshots...does not mean it's going to look better than DAO or even close to it lol

The environment and lighting in the screenshots sucks. But if you look at the faces of Bethany and Hawke..well, that is a massive improvement right there in itself.

What is better than DA:O or not is subject to opinion, ofc.

[Roland Aseph]

Using DAO as the "standard" they SHOULD be measuring themselves by I disagree that the faces or ANY other aspect of any screenshots submitted thus far are better or even in the same class.

In a nutshell we HAD 300...and now for the much anticipated sequel they give us Beastmaster!!!

What a waste...

http://0.tqn.com/d/c...CJG300-0088.jpg

to this...


http://www.in-sect.c...beastmaster.jpg

Modifié par Roland Aseph, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:29 .

[SithLordExarKun]

You truly dont know when to shut the hell up do you? You've consistently lost but still decide to keep arguing like a broken record, looking back at this thread, im not the only one that argued with you and called out on your incompetence.

Estel78 wrote...
Please show me a quote from a dev stating the game already looks FAR better than on those screenshots. I know of Gaider saying it looks better, yes. Better does not equal FAR better, though. It could mean anything.

Whether it looks FAR better or not,  it will still improve regardless. So your "This is how the game will pretty much look" is moot and debunked. Now please learn to shut up when you've lost once again.

Besides, weren't you the one that got owned by kraidy when he posted the ME2 alpa videos that show no lighting, horrid textures and bad graphics and that the graphics improved by a large margin by release date?

And by the way, tweaking simple things like lighting makes a HUGE difference in graphics, just look at red dead redemption, far cry 2 and crysis, none of the models and textures look as good as they do in the day time in the games day/night cycle when they are at night.

So then again, the graphics will improve by a large margin because
1) tweaking lighting does not require a massive overhall of the engine
2) Lighting makes a huge difference.

Hell go look at uncharted and uncharted 2. Uncharted 2 has vastly superior graphics to the first game and the developers stated that the only graphical improvement they have made is the lighting.

Or look at those graphic mods for San andreas, the last i recall the game had awful graphics and on the pc version, there was a third party mod  that tweaked the games lighting and gave it a much better look.

Now just take a look at this video yourself, and then compare it to the original San Andreas and see the drastic difference in lighting :


Sorry hun, but once again you have been annihilated yet again,

Estel78 wrote...
Besides, what one person might consider a big improvement another person might not, it's a matter of interpretation.

So yes, i can interpretate that FFVII looks better than Crysis, because according to you, its all a matter of interpretation.

Estel78 wrote...
And lastly, i wouldn't take everything a dev says at face value. Of course they'll say it's not final and they are still working on it and well, they definitely are still working on it but how much of that work will be visible at the end is anyones guess. I remember back when some of the community complained about the awful walking animation in DAO when in battle, a dev said we shouldn't worry too much, they're still tweaking the animations. All PR speak to appease to the community coz guess what, the awful walking animation made it into the final game.

For one, i am more inclined to listen to a developer than some random Joe like you that thinks hes so damn smart.

[tmp7704]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

So then again, the graphics will improve by a large margin because
1) tweaking lighting does not require a massive overhall of the engine
2) Lighting makes a huge difference.

That's quite a presumption to make when DAO has horrible lighting which wasn't "tweaked". Why didn't they bother when it's as easy as you say? And if they did not bother, what makes you believe this time they will?

[Jimmy Fury]

woo ok this is all getting a bit personal... might want to dial that back a bit before Woo or Gloom ends the line/music (respectively)



So uhm... yes. I quite agree with Grommash that "better than DAO" is pretty subjective. I myself never thought Origins had stellar graphics to begin with. Particularly compared to other games that came out around the same time. Not to pour salty lemon juice in everyone's favorite wound but ME2 didn't come out too long after Origins and I thought its graphics were much better.

But then it's my understanding (could be wrong, please correct if so) that the Eclipse Engine was a bit lacking in that department?



So, on that note, do we know what engine DA2 will be using? I haven't really paid attention to anything technical because i know ef all about that stuff but I am curious to know if it uses the same engine or one with better graphics handling...

[SithLordExarKun]

tmp7704 wrote...

That's quite a presumption to make when DAO has horrible lighting which wasn't "tweaked". Why didn't they bother when it's as easy as you say? And if they did not bother, what makes you believe this time they will?

So why are they now bothering to improve the graphics then? If they did bother this time round, what makes you believe they won't?

[tmp7704]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

So why are they now bothering to improve the graphics then? If they did bother this time round, what makes you believe they won't?

At this point (having read the Game Informer article) i'm not actually sure whether by "improving the graphics" they mean technical improvements or rather change to the overall design/art style. It seems they mostly mean the latter and this i can certainly see them doing (although tastes being all different it can be debated if the new look is an actual improvement) ... while the technical improvements, not so much.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:57 .

[SithLordExarKun]

tmp7704 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

So why are they now bothering to improve the graphics then? If they did bother this time round, what makes you believe they won't?

At this point (having read the Game Informer article) i'm not actually sure whether by "improving the graphics" they mean technical improvements or rather change to the overall design/art style. It seems they mostly mean the latter and this i can certainly see them doing (although tastes being all different it can be debated if the new look is an actual improvement) ... while the technical improvements, not so much.

Looking at the close up of the darkspawn and closeup of hawke and beth, i definately see higher res textures when compared to DAO.

That beng said the only time we really get to see a real improvement is when the game nears release.

[Games4ever]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

You truly dont know when to shut the hell up do you? You've consistently lost but still decide to keep arguing like a broken record, looking back at this thread, im not the only one that argued with you and called out on your incompetence.

Estel78 wrote...
Please show me a quote from a dev stating the game already looks FAR better than on those screenshots. I know of Gaider saying it looks better, yes. Better does not equal FAR better, though. It could mean anything.

Whether it looks FAR better or not,  it will still improve regardless. So your "This is how the game will pretty much look" is moot and debunked. Now please learn to shut up when you've lost once again.

Besides, weren't you the one that got owned by kraidy when he posted the ME2 alpa videos that show no lighting, horrid textures and bad graphics and that the graphics improved by a large margin by release date?

And by the way, tweaking simple things like lighting makes a HUGE difference in graphics, just look at red dead redemption, far cry 2 and crysis, none of the models and textures look as good as they do in the day time in the games day/night cycle when they are at night.

So then again, the graphics will improve by a large margin because
1) tweaking lighting does not require a massive overhall of the engine
2) Lighting makes a huge difference.

Hell go look at uncharted and uncharted 2. Uncharted 2 has vastly superior graphics to the first game and the developers stated that the only graphical improvement they have made is the lighting.

Or look at those graphic mods for San andreas, the last i recall the game had awful graphics and on the pc version, there was a third party mod  that tweaked the games lighting and gave it a much better look.

Now just take a look at this video yourself, and then compare it to the original San Andreas and see the drastic difference in lighting :


Sorry hun, but once again you have been annihilated yet again,

Estel78 wrote...
Besides, what one person might consider a big improvement another person might not, it's a matter of interpretation.

So yes, i can interpretate that FFVII looks better than Crysis, because according to you, its all a matter of interpretation.

Estel78 wrote...
And lastly, i wouldn't take everything a dev says at face value. Of course they'll say it's not final and they are still working on it and well, they definitely are still working on it but how much of that work will be visible at the end is anyones guess. I remember back when some of the community complained about the awful walking animation in DAO when in battle, a dev said we shouldn't worry too much, they're still tweaking the animations. All PR speak to appease to the community coz guess what, the awful walking animation made it into the final game.

For one, i am more inclined to listen to a developer than some random Joe like you that thinks hes so damn smart.

That’s the biggest load of tosh I've ever heard

[Lintanis]

There be a trailer out 17th Aug be able to judge better then

[Estel78]

Games4ever wrote...

That’s the biggest load of tosh I've ever heard

Agreed. 

Modifié par Estel78, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:56 .

[Games4ever]

Lintanis wrote...

There be a trailer out 17th Aug be able to judge better then

Yeah, but only if the show game-play, which I doubt they will