52 réponses à ce sujet

[EmStar202]

I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I mean, the story seemed pretty much tied up for me, except for that ominous line in the Awakening epilogue where it said the warden vanishes. But other than that I'd say the story is pretty much tied up, well, for me, it was. I suppose some people's other wardens are out searching for Morrigan or off traveling somewhere. So I guess I see where you guys are coming from.

But what else could our warden could have done? We already saved the world from the blight. What would they do next? Just run around, saving people from small threats? Do you really want a game just running around, chasing after Morrigan? I guess it would be cool, but wouldn't it be better to start fresh? With a new main character and places and companion characters and plot? I think the warden already had their story; it's time to tell somebody elses.

Modifié par EmStar202, 13 juillet 2010 - 01:05 .

[Blastback]

JasonPogo wrote...

thenemesis77 wrote...

C9316 wrote...

I personally wanted to import my warden but I'm still buying DA:O stuff. I guess hating DA is just their way of lashing out against Bioware for choosing not to follow up with the wardens.

I did too, but thats not what the writers had in mind. I know I sound like a baby but I grew close to the Warden, felt he or she was to be the great hero of this story, much like they are saying Hawke is, but that is not to be. I really hope DA2 is good, it's just not going to be the same, I wanted my Warden to go all over the World that David had made and save his friends and go on alot of close calls, I felt that he was the one to make the world better and his father said " our son will make his mark on this world". I really felt that hey we can do this and make everthing right and hope for better days, not to die on some calling or in the deep roads........thats cheap and shollow way to end such a great character.

I get all that but the peoblem with all that is you are a Gray Warden.  Once Origins ends you kinda do to.  Even if you make your character King or Queen then they just sit around in Deniram.  They will always be a Warden and worry about Darkspawn and nothing else.  Not to mention they will die rather young.  And anyway whenever Dragon age 3 comes out if it ever dose will fallow a whole new character.

Gotta disagree with you there. Let's not forget what Wynne told us about
Grey Wardens serving and protecting all people.  Yes their primary duty
is to defend against the blight, and historicaly they don't get
involved in politics,  But times for the Wardens do seem to be
changing.  They now rule an Arling in Ferelden, and let's not forget how
the darkspawn are changing.  Plus there is Morigan.  if Bioware wants
to, they can still tell some damn good stories featuring the warden

[Blastback]

EmStar202 wrote...

I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I mean, the story seemed pretty much tied up for me, except for that ominous line in the Awakening epilogue where it said the warden vanishes. But other than that I'd say the story is pretty much tied up, well, for me, it was. I suppose some people's other wardens are out searching for Morrigan or off traveling somewhere. So I guess I see where you guys are coming from.

But what else could our warden could have done? We already saved the world from the blight. What would they do next? Just run around, saving people from small threats? Do you really want a game just running around, chasing after Morrigan? I guess it would be cool, but wouldn't it be better to start fresh? With a new main character and places and companion characters and plot? I think the warden already had their story; it's time to tell somebody elses.

Well, to counter that point, why couldn't the warden be out dealing with minor threats and then stumble onto the same situaltion that Hawke finds him/herself in? 

[JasonPogo]

Blastback wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

thenemesis77 wrote...

C9316 wrote...

I personally wanted to import my warden but I'm still buying DA:O stuff. I guess hating DA is just their way of lashing out against Bioware for choosing not to follow up with the wardens.

I did too, but thats not what the writers had in mind. I know I sound like a baby but I grew close to the Warden, felt he or she was to be the great hero of this story, much like they are saying Hawke is, but that is not to be. I really hope DA2 is good, it's just not going to be the same, I wanted my Warden to go all over the World that David had made and save his friends and go on alot of close calls, I felt that he was the one to make the world better and his father said " our son will make his mark on this world". I really felt that hey we can do this and make everthing right and hope for better days, not to die on some calling or in the deep roads........thats cheap and shollow way to end such a great character.

I get all that but the peoblem with all that is you are a Gray Warden.  Once Origins ends you kinda do to.  Even if you make your character King or Queen then they just sit around in Deniram.  They will always be a Warden and worry about Darkspawn and nothing else.  Not to mention they will die rather young.  And anyway whenever Dragon age 3 comes out if it ever dose will fallow a whole new character.

Gotta disagree with you there. Let's not forget what Wynne told us about
Grey Wardens serving and protecting all people.  Yes their primary duty
is to defend against the blight, and historicaly they don't get
involved in politics,  But times for the Wardens do seem to be
changing.  They now rule an Arling in Ferelden, and let's not forget how
the darkspawn are changing.  Plus there is Morigan.  if Bioware wants
to, they can still tell some damn good stories featuring the warden

Well don't quote me on this.  But didn't they say at some point that they were doing another full length expansion for Origins?  I would at least expect as much.  I hope for everyone’s sake it satisfies.

[DespiertaLosNinos]

Blastback wrote...

Plus there is Morigan. 

Yes, annoying, egotistical, and aloof....whats not to love.

Modifié par DespiertaLosNinos, 13 juillet 2010 - 01:15 .

[Blastback]

Another full expansion to finish the Warden's story would probably satisfy alot of us who are a bit disipointed by the Warden not being playable. As long as it isn't as buggy as Awakening

[EmStar202]

Blastback wrote...

EmStar202 wrote...

I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I mean, the story seemed pretty much tied up for me, except for that ominous line in the Awakening epilogue where it said the warden vanishes. But other than that I'd say the story is pretty much tied up, well, for me, it was. I suppose some people's other wardens are out searching for Morrigan or off traveling somewhere. So I guess I see where you guys are coming from.

But what else could our warden could have done? We already saved the world from the blight. What would they do next? Just run around, saving people from small threats? Do you really want a game just running around, chasing after Morrigan? I guess it would be cool, but wouldn't it be better to start fresh? With a new main character and places and companion characters and plot? I think the warden already had their story; it's time to tell somebody elses.

Well, to counter that point, why couldn't the warden be out dealing with minor threats and then stumble onto the same situaltion that Hawke finds him/herself in? 

Hmm, that's true...
 
I'd be fine with that, but would that still mean you get new companion characters? Because then that takes away the fun romances, if you're already involved with someone from the previous game. But other than that, what you said would be fine with me, but I still think the idea of making a new character with an adventure all their own is more exciting, but that's probably just because on my other playthroughs I was queen and went off traveling with Zev, so my wardens' stories are pretty much over.

If I didn't feel like my warden's story was over though, I'd agree with you guys completely. So I guess I can see both sides.

[Blastback]

DespiertaLosNinos wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Plus there is Morigan. 

Yes, annoying, egotistical, and aloof....whats not to love.

Yeah, ain't she dreamy.

[thenemesis77]

Blastback wrote...

EmStar202 wrote...

I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I mean, the story seemed pretty much tied up for me, except for that ominous line in the Awakening epilogue where it said the warden vanishes. But other than that I'd say the story is pretty much tied up, well, for me, it was. I suppose some people's other wardens are out searching for Morrigan or off traveling somewhere. So I guess I see where you guys are coming from.

But what else could our warden could have done? We already saved the world from the blight. What would they do next? Just run around, saving people from small threats? Do you really want a game just running around, chasing after Morrigan? I guess it would be cool, but wouldn't it be better to start fresh? With a new main character and places and companion characters and plot? I think the warden already had their story; it's time to tell somebody elses.

Well, to counter that point, why couldn't the warden be out dealing with minor threats and then stumble onto the same situaltion that Hawke finds him/herself in? 

Yea, that was my hope and I thought thats what was going to happen, a ton of things you could have down with the Warden, but the Writers don't want the Warden around anymore and it feels so emty. I could think of a ton of things you could still do with the current Warden, just can't understand it all, kind of the all for not.

[MKDAWUSS]

People also forget that the Warden was as much their character as Hawke will be.

[_-Greywolf-_]

JasonPogo wrote...

So many people on these board are so upset that we don’t continue the story of our Warden. However Bioware never said that these games will fallow one hero. In fact the first game did a very good job of making sure we did not have just “one” hero. Something the rest of the people are complaining about. I always assumed that Dragon Age 2 would fallow the story of someone new. 
 
And people are saying things like ”Oh well we don’t play as the Warden in DA2? Well then I won’t buy anymore DLC for Origins!” Why? It is still a continuation of a game you seemed to love. If Bioware had not announced the sequel you would have bought it? If they never made a sequel would that add something? I honestly don’t get this attitude…

To be honest I dont really care that we wont be able to play the Warden is DA2, hell I never actually expected that we would play the Warden in DA2. What my problem is that with the introduction of a predefined character like Hawke it seems Bioware has taken away a lot of the freedom to create and define out own character, this wouldnt matter so much if the backstory, name and character were all vital to the plot (just like the Nameless One in Planescape Torment) however if this Hawke character has shoes anyone could fill why couldnt we have filled them with our own character?

I know we havent seen the full story yet and what I said above was my preferences for DA2 as well as my impressions so far I have accepted Dragon Age 2 for what it is and I hope to learn more about it in the future.

Modifié par _-Greywolf-_, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:15 .

[Blastback]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

People also forget that the Warden was as much their character as Hawke will be.

Actually, that is something of a concern.  My Warden felt to me like he was my character.  Now, let's go to Mass Effect, where my Shepard, to me, felt not like my character, but like my version of a pre exisiting character.  It was a small, subtle diffrence, but there. 
I'm not sure, why I felt like this but I did.  My worry is that it may be an affect of the pc having voiced diolage.  And if so....

[_-Greywolf-_]

Blastback wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

People also forget that the Warden was as much their character as Hawke will be.

Actually, that is something of a concern.  My Warden felt to me like he was my character.  Now, let's go to Mass Effect, where my Shepard, to me, felt not like my character, but like my version of a pre exisiting character.  It was a small, subtle diffrence, but there. 
I'm not sure, why I felt like this but I did.  My worry is that it may be an affect of the pc having voiced diolage.  And if so....

I diddnt feel Shepard was my character either, it was partly because of the voice dialogue, partly because of the lack of character customization and partly because there are certain guidlines that Shepards character has to follow.

Here is what Ray Muzyka has to say on the subject and it explains things at lot better.

"Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts," Dr. Ray told IGN. "In Mass Effect it's more a third-person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional."

"We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice."

"It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future."

However I have been told been told by the devs that Hawke will be a bit more flexable in personality than Shepard was and you will have a bit more freedom to define the character.

Modifié par _-Greywolf-_, 13 juillet 2010 - 01:40 .

[thenemesis77]

Blastback wrote...

DespiertaLosNinos wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Plus there is Morigan. 

Yes, annoying, egotistical, and aloof....whats not to love.

Yeah, ain't she dreamy.

Yea, and loved getting to her and whatever anyone says, she did care for the warden, but it was her job to help the  world  and not just think about what she wanted and I wanted the chance to help here do that with my Warden, but he is like a blue screen on a computer, gone. Thanks David, you make me feel so good.

[Blastback]

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...

Blastback wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

People also forget that the Warden was as much their character as Hawke will be.

Actually, that is something of a concern.  My Warden felt to me like he was my character.  Now, let's go to Mass Effect, where my Shepard, to me, felt not like my character, but like my version of a pre exisiting character.  It was a small, subtle diffrence, but there. 
I'm not sure, why I felt like this but I did.  My worry is that it may be an affect of the pc having voiced diolage.  And if so....

I diddnt feel Shepard was my character either, it was partly because of the voice dialogue, partly because of the lack of character customization and partly because there are certain guidlines that Shepards character has to follow.

Here is what Ray Muzyka has to say on the subject and it explains things at lot better.

"Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts," Dr. Ray told IGN. "In Mass Effect it's more a third-person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional."

"We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice."

"It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future."

However I have been told been told by the devs that Hawke will be a bit more flexable in personality than Shepard was and you will have a bit more freedom to define the character.

Bingo.  Just yeah, that sums it up nicely.  I guess Bioware is tryig to find a balance in DA2.  For better or worse, it will be intresting I think

[Zalocx]

Blastback wrote...

Well, to counter that point, why couldn't the warden be out dealing with minor threats and then stumble onto the same situaltion that Hawke finds him/herself in? 

Because the story in DA2 is about Hawke's "Rise to power" in the Free Marches. A region  where the blight did little to no damage. This most of the NPCs and foes encountered by Hawke will be of a reasonable level. Most of them have never seen a dragon much less fought one. Hawke will have a hard time as he starts at level one and has to work his way up. You can't throw a level 60+ Warden in that same situation as he/she would kill everything in one attack. The Warden has fought multiple Dragons, great demons, and lots of other nasties and is a living legend. You can't put that character in DA2 and have the game be chalanging at all without pulling some SUPERB (and setting/logic defying) bullsh*t about how guards in a small town are able to stand to a charcter that has killed small armies of vile inhuman things by him/herself or power down the Warden a la Shepard in ME2 (which I felt was a cop out). The game will either be boring to an extreme where your ubermench character with dragonbone armor kills everything save the last boss in one attack or a dissapointing string of encounters that actually chalange the Warden (like High Dragons and Pride Demons) EVERY SINGLE FIGHT which would suck out all the fun of beating "big unique bosses" AND be setting breaking.

DA is an ACTUAL RPG, not an "Action RPG" or a "FPS with plot". Your main character gets powerful and the power of his foes also increase, but the constants of the setting (like town guard being in the level 20-40 range depending on experience) can't change. DA2, or any game set outside the Fade (which was incredibly tedious to navigate anyway) There is no way you can explore Thedas and its nations with a person who killed a tainted god and expect anything but a boring story with no rivals or chalanges that even make the hero blink

[MonkeyKaboom]

Chasing Morrigan around the world looking for a poop machine that may or may not be your own (depending on the choice you made) is about the lamest idea I can think of for a game. Other than those craptastic stories that get repeated over and over in Final Fantasy.



Know why your warden has to end? Because it would be stupid if it didn't. That's the problem with open endings. Some of us could have chosen the path where our warden gave his/her life to kill the Arch Demon. Some of us got crabs mucking in Morrigan's swamp. She does run around as an animal a lot, but those weren't just normal fleas. Some of us sacrificed Alistair/Logane.



Ignoring all that and just copy pasting it to some new content is a cop out. It works for ME because they went into the project from the beginning with the plan of spanning 3 games for the story to unfold. DA wasn't approached that way. Give me something new. I've seen all I can stand of Ferelden.



Either way, it may not be to the satisfaction of some, but epilogue tied all the loose ends. You may not feel like closure has been seen. And that's because the reality doesn't work that way. Your hero's story is over. But the world goes on. Just like everyone else. The lack of some long lasting, happily ever after conclusion is great. Fairy tale endings are for children.

[Blastback]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Chasing Morrigan around the world looking for a poop machine that may or may not be your own (depending on the choice you made) is about the lamest idea I can think of for a game. Other than those craptastic stories that get repeated over and over in Final Fantasy.

Know why your warden has to end? Because it would be stupid if it didn't. That's the problem with open endings. Some of us could have chosen the path where our warden gave his/her life to kill the Arch Demon. Some of us got crabs mucking in Morrigan's swamp. She does run around as an animal a lot, but those weren't just normal fleas. Some of us sacrificed Alistair/Logane.

Ignoring all that and just copy pasting it to some new content is a cop out. It works for ME because they went into the project from the beginning with the plan of spanning 3 games for the story to unfold. DA wasn't approached that way. Give me something new. I've seen all I can stand of Ferelden.

Either way, it may not be to the satisfaction of some, but epilogue tied all the loose ends. You may not feel like closure has been seen. And that's because the reality doesn't work that way. Your hero's story is over. But the world goes on. Just like everyone else. The lack of some long lasting, happily ever after conclusion is great. Fairy tale endings are for children.

I resemble that last remark.  Sorry couldn't help it;).  But really, some of us look to escapist fiction to, well, escape the fact that the world sucks.  We like getting a happy ending in stories because of how they so seldom happen in reality. Heck, I don't even need a happy ever after, just a bit more than the hero dissapeared.  I figure that another expansion would probably work. but that's just me.

As far as chasing Morrigan and the baby goes, I think that that would be a good starting point, not the actual point to the entire adventure.

[Kalfear]

JasonPogo wrote...

So many people on these board are so upset that we don’t continue the story of our Warden. However Bioware never said that these games will fallow one hero. In fact the first game did a very good job of making sure we did not have just “one” hero. Something the rest of the people are complaining about. I always assumed that Dragon Age 2 would fallow the story of someone new. 
 
And people are saying things like ”Oh well we don’t play as the Warden in DA2? Well then I won’t buy anymore DLC for Origins!” Why? It is still a continuation of a game you seemed to love. If Bioware had not announced the sequel you would have bought it? If they never made a sequel would that add something? I honestly don’t get this attitude…

Umm you do know f"O"llow is spelt with o not a?

Or is this do0Dz speak and im just not up on current intentional spelling errors?

I wouldnt say anything but you did it twice suggesting intention rather then typo

[MonkeyKaboom]

Kalfear wrote...

Umm you do know f"O"llow is spelt with o not a?

Or is this do0Dz speak and im just not up on current intentional spelling errors?

I wouldnt say anything but you did it twice suggesting intention rather then typo

Hey ***hat.  Your grammar sucks.  You've missed commas.  You left out an apostrophe.  Was it intentional or did you just fail at English yourself?  How about sticking to actual subject matter, rather THAN making a fool of yourself while playing grammar ****?

I wouldn't say anything.  But you look like a complete idiot.

Modifié par MonkeyKaboom, 14 juillet 2010 - 10:34 .

[Narreneth]

GodWood wrote...

People are stupid.

This times 1000.

[UndercoverDoctor]

Arttis wrote...

They did not tie loose ends with DAO so they wanna have that character reach the end of his story.
They grew attached to them also...bit wierd imo.

The end of the Warden's story was when they sacrfied themselves to kill the Archdemon. Everything else is optional.

[Johnson45]

New game new characters, who would've thought it?



Seriously, Bioware aren't obligated to bring a character back because of some fans assumptions that they would. It's like you said OP, BW never said that the Dragon Age games would always follow one hero, it's just some people seem to have forgotten that.

[TMZuk]

I wish that people who holds a different opinion than I would stop calling me stupid or similar enlightened thing. It does not excactly make me feel it is the most intelligent of people who are in favour of the changes.



I feel that if Bioware had ended the wardens story in a satisfactionary manner, there would have been little to complain about in that regard. However, they did not, and while that is not only annoying it also brings forth the fear that the Hawke character is going to be treated in the same manner.



Besides that, I have several other issues with what little information we have received so far, dialogue wheel, voiced character etc etc.



These are my critisisms. They are based on the facts we have received so far, of which all of them are for me extremely discouraging. If you disagree, fine, but do so in a civil manner, please.



I do not call those who find the new game to be sounding interesting stupid, silly, or anything like that.

[TMZuk]

UndercoverDoctor wrote...

Arttis wrote...

They did not tie loose ends with DAO so they wanna have that character reach the end of his story.
They grew attached to them also...bit wierd imo.

The end of the Warden's story was when they sacrfied themselves to kill the Archdemon. Everything else is optional.

That is YOUR opinion. And why then, was Awakenings published?