416 réponses à ce sujet

[mr_nameless]

Hey were a democracy, hence power to the masses.

Even though they can be a bunch of ignorant tasteless fools. They like it, too bad.



Personally I now only play games from independent studios; were the most interesting stuff and creativity comes forth. Bioware/EA and the likes view things quite differently. Pure commercialized crap, nothing inventive.

[Querne]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Bah this is nothing. Were you here when Return to Ostagar was first delayed? People swore left and right that Bioware had just destroyed its entire company and murdered its fanbase. There was screaming, threats of violence, grand declarations that people were never going anywhere near BioWare again, etc etc.
they aaaaall came back and downloaded it the minute it was released.
Right now it's just the change=bad reaction. People are scared and lashing out at everything they can find.

Yes, and after they played RtO, they tought all the more, that Bioware is killing their fanbase.

I wouldn´t touch Chronicles even with tongs and got Lels song only because it seemed to have been made with some effort finally.

[JeanLuc761]

mr_nameless wrote...

Hey were a democracy, hence power to the masses.
Even though they can be a bunch of ignorant tasteless fools. They like it, too bad.

Personally I now only play games from independent studios; were the most interesting stuff and creativity comes forth. Bioware/EA and the likes view things quite differently. Pure commercialized crap, nothing inventive.

Yet another person who thinks their opinion is the only one that matters.

*sigh*

[Querne]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

mr_nameless wrote...

Hey were a democracy, hence power to the masses.

Yet another person who thinks their opinion is the only one that matters.

*sigh*

Ohm, doesn´t really seem so. "Democracy" is the opposite of thinking that only the own opinion matters..
So if you like it, you are the masses.

Modifié par Querne, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:12 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Querne wrote...
Yes, and after they played RtO, they tought all the more, that Bioware is killing their fanbase.

But they still forked out the dough for it didn't they. Then a month later something else was announced and they didn't care about RtO anymore. Then came Awakenings and it was the apocalypse all over again. Then came ME2 and it was fire and brimstone and each DLC pack another plague being released on the egyptians.
It continued on and on until this week.
4-5 days ago: 1 CHARACTER IS THE WORST THING EVER.
3 days ago: DIALOGUE WHEEL IS THE WORST THING EVER
yesterday: SCREEN SHOTS ARE THE WORST SCREENS EVER

This will continue for months.

[mornegroth]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

mornegroth wrote...

*sigh*
I just hope this negativity towards Bioware newest decisions wont have a real impact in the development of the game. I just hope...
This whole ranting is making me nuts. But well, it's the internet... And people sure have their opinions.

Bah this is nothing. Were you here when Return to Ostagar was first delayed? People swore left and right that Bioware had just destroyed its entire company and murdered its fanbase. There was screaming, threats of violence, grand declarations that people were never going anywhere near BioWare again, etc etc.
they aaaaall came back and downloaded it the minute it was released.
Right now it's just the change=bad reaction. People are scared and lashing out at everything they can find.

Meh, I didn't visit the forums very often at that time. I still don't, only when I feel so. But it's always sad to see all this negativism when it should be constructive criticism.

[JeanLuc761]

Querne wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

mr_nameless wrote...

Hey were a democracy, hence power to the masses.

Yet another person who thinks their opinion is the only one that matters.

*sigh*

Ohm, doesn´t really seem so. "Democracy" is the opposite of thinking that only the own opinion matters..
So if you like it, you are the masses.

Might have been just a misinterpretation on my own part, but the "ignorant, tasteless fools" implies that the only people who like Bioware's recent games are just that.  Tasteless.

[Querne]

-2xpost-

Modifié par Querne, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:18 .

[Cazic of LFD]

Khavos wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Saying BioWare is not based on greed is not saying they are not a business.

Saying that Bioware would like to sell as many games as possible is not saying they are greedy.

Wanting to sell as many games as possible by "dumbing" down the content so its more easily consumed by the masses is what it looks like bioware is doing here. I would call that being Greedy.

At anyrate TMZuk and MFCell pretty much hit the proverbial nail on the head with my concerns. It looks more and more like i won't be buying DA2, and this coming from someone who put 300+ hours into DA:O.

[Querne]

[quote]Jimmy Fury wrote...

[quote]Querne wrote...
Yes, and after they played RtO, they tought all the more, that Bioware is killing their fanbase. [/quote]
But they still forked out the dough for it didn't they. Then a month later something else was announced and they didn't care about RtO anymore. Then came Awakenings and it was the apocalypse all over again. Then came ME2 and it was fire and brimstone and each DLC pack another plague being released on the egyptians.
It continued on and on until this week.
4-5 days ago: 1 CHARACTER IS THE WORST THING EVER.
3 days ago: DIALOGUE WHEEL IS THE WORST THING EVER
yesterday: SCREEN SHOTS ARE THE WORST SCREENS EVER

This will continue for months.

[/quote]



I haven´t read anybody write that Lelianas Song was the worst DLC ever. Probably because it was really good and Awakening and RtO were mediocre.[/quote]

Modifié par Querne, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:16 .

[TSamee]

Querne wrote...

That's why making games more mainstream isn't a bad thing, so long as they still appeal to the hardcore fanbase that initially fell in love with them.

I think you found the problem, the hardcore fanbase starts to feel  like a husband coming home and finding his love cheating him with a casual affair..

Yeah, I see what you mean... frankly, I think the core of it is that it must appeal to the hardcore as well as the casual players. And, here's the important part, the hardcore have to get a lot more out of the experience. My brother played DA and stormed right through the story, he enjoyed it and he loved the strategy in the combat (he was on a PC though), but missed out on a lot because he didn't talk to his party, develop his relationships, etc. I went through it, doing all of the side-quests I could across multiple playthroughs, with different classes, races, etc., and I got a lot more out of it.

However, MFCell has a very persuasive argument. I'm only really pushing this point in retaliation against the unnecessary doomsaying DA2 seems to be seeing, but he has a very valid argument. A two-year dev cycle won't have the polish of a game made over five years. I was hoping that the choices made over Hawke's story would replace the variety found in the first game's Origins... but it seems that the 2-year cycle is simply going to result in less content, not different distribution of content.
This... saddens me, to say the least. I'll be cautiously optimistic, but now that I'm actually facing the facts, this feels an awful lot like ME2 (ignore all the arguments about the new combat system, the new story focus, I'm not talking about that), which was, in my opinion, below the precedent ME1 and other BioWare RPGs set. I'm not saying ME2 was a bad game, I'm saying it was one of the situations where too much streamlining's been applied to the point that it's eaten heavily into the complexity that made the franchise so appealing to the hardcore. In short, it became so friendly to another market that it alienated its core audience.
All I can say is, out of all the people concerned about the direction of DA2, MFCell has been both the most eloquent and the most balanced in his/her outlook. Very intelligent post, mate... far too intelligent. Anyway, let's see what information the coming months give us... but I'll be honest, once I actually stop to consider the circumstances, I'm concerned.

We'll need some serious enchantment to clear this **** up...

[Khavos]

Cazic of LFD wrote...

Wanting to sell as many games as possible by "dumbing" down the content so its more easily consumed by the masses is what it looks like bioware is doing here. I would call that being Greedy.

Call it what you want, I have no issue with your interpretation of their motives.  My issue is with the people who pretend that Bioware is some sort of charity organization and not in the business they're in for profit.  

[Narreneth]

Kalfear wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

YOU don't give your character life.  YOU don't even get to decide *what* your character says to people.  You choose from a list of pre-determined responses in *every* situation.  If *you* are adding life that isn't in those lines and scenes originally, you are misintepreting what is happening.  

Yes of course we choose from a limited list of options.

And when the option for my character doesn't exist, I have the option of pretending it does through THE IMAGINATIONZ.  


That is the worst logic I've ever heard.  If that's the case you can use IMAGINATIONZ as you so eloquently put it to "imagine" whatever life you want that the voice acting leaves out.  Are you really that stupid?

The whole purpose of using my imagination (which in this case refers to imaging the way my character is speaking a line) is to PREVENT those jarring situations where your character says something out of character.  If I'm playing as a violent dalish elf who hates humans but my only options when rescuing a human farmer in a random encounter are :

1. I'm glad to be of service.
2. GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY
3. NO REALLY GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY

None of those options really fit, but with a bit of imaginationz you can make the first option fit quite well (Assuming your character is still a Good Alignment, Neutral or Evil versions would have an easier time roleplaying this scene) if you read it in a tone similar to Morrigan's sarcastic'condescending tone she uses quite often early on in the game.

Truly, Bioware is mostly pretty good about including enough options that I can atleast find one that suits my needs, but they can't predict every possible character personality. (And accomodate it through dialog)  


I don't need my character to express the emotions visually because 1. The emotions that character experiences are dictated by who that character is ( which is in turn dictated by the player).  and  2. Bioware does a well enough job of conveying the emotions of a scene through NPC voice acting, lighting and what not that I don't need my character to adopt a "Sadface" to explain the intent of the scene to me. (Obviously the sadface is a very primitive example of this, but I think it's a rather good one seeing as it could look completely stupid on the majority of characters in DA:O )

The characters you interact with react the same to no matter what you imagine yourself to be saying or how you imagine yourself saying it.  That is a completely invalid point.  If the NPCs are doing the scene-setting for you and you fail to pick up on the fact that everything you're "imagining" doesn't fit with what is actually going on then you're fairly hopeless. 

There's a difference between imagining a different tone for a phrase and changing the intent too.  Yes NPC's will respond in the same way no matter how you read it in your head but in most cases their response will fit how you chose to have a character say it.

Continuing with my farmer example, people in such situation probably won't care if you're being somewhat sarcastic as you just saved their life.  Them reacting in the same way they would if you were dead serious saying it isn't really notable because they're just glad to be alive.

For more complex scenarios, there's generally a way for most characters to adequately respond without breaking character.  Bioware did a good job in DA:O to provide plenty of options.

You're assuming there aren't going to be a multitude of responses on the wheel dialogue system.  You have no idea how it's going to work out.  Of the three in your farmer example you've got "Kind" "Jerky" "Super Jerky" 

They could easily fit your "Sarcastic" in there too.  Or your "I hate you because I'm Dalish" as well.  BioWare always has tons of dialogue options.  Just because it isn't spelled out word for word for you doesn't mean you're not still going to have tons and tons of options.

Actually that completely false
There was many many many times in my 1 play through of ME2 where what Bioware offered dint remotely come close to how I wanted it to sound in my imagination as the character.

Which broke immersion which was a huge issue in ME2 (lack of immersion)

Just becaus eBioware gives you a few options doesnt mean it covers all situation and ideas.

You completely missed the point.  And again, you're making the mistake of assuming that because there's a wheel the dialogue system is going to be exactly the same as Mass Effect. 

[LPPrince]

You know what? There is no such thing as the definition of "casual market" some people have. Now hear me out-

I'm not referring to casual as "the guy/girl who plays an hour of games a week". Of course that's a market, and one of the largest in fact.

I'm talking about the definition that some people have in their heads about what a casual gamer is.

In reality, gaming is made up of a bunch of niche markets.

RPG. Shooter. Action. Adventure. Platform. Etc etc.

People tend to call everyone outside of their respective niche or people that are fans of more than one type of game, "casual gamers".

Casual in that they are of lesser worth than the niche the speaker applies to.

In such a case, casual doesn't really exist. Its just made up in the speaker's head.

There's many subgenres of gaming, such as the Action Adventure, the MMORPG, the RPG Shooter, etc etc.

Fans of such seem to fall into that same category of "Casual" that these people come up with. It doesn't make much sense.

Yes, games that fall entirely into their genre are fun. But developers have realized that times have changed.

A gamer's taste has evolved. Nowadays, gamers are more likely to enjoy a wide variety of games rather than sticking to one genre alone.

For example, I've got both Mass Effect games(RPG Shooter), Modern Warfare 2(Shooter), Dragon Age:Origins(RPG), both Assassin's Creed games(Action Adventure), etc etc.

Developers need to constantly make more money. Especially as the price of making games goes up every 5 or so years. They know that the best way to do this is to cater not to one specific market but to multiple markets.

The best selling games cater to more than one market, by blending elements into a single title.

Bioware was very used to creating straight up RPG's. They took a risk with Mass Effect, and it succeeded tenfold.

Mass Effect 2 ended up becoming one of the highest rated games of all time, ranked at #14 by Gamerankings with an average review of 95.66%.

Obviously, Bioware had the right idea.

Dragon Age:Origins was their blast to the past, and it was highly successful in its own right, but not as successful as their hybrid.

Rather than merge an RPG with another genre, completely rewriting the intent we gathered from them at first, they're taking elements of the more modern day successes and have chosen to blend them into their next project. A smart move, business wise.

They are targeting DA2 not just to the "casual market", but to the core RPG niche that still exists today.

What people need to grasp is that as times change, you must move on. Much like people will sell their PS2 to get a PS3, or Xbox for an Xbox 360, or older PC for a newer model, at some point you must understand that Bioware is a business and must move on.

They must do what they can to keep going. To make the most profit.

Making profit is a balance between keeping the niche markets happy, and attracting the rather large group of casual consumers that might not be part of the "insta-purchase" niche of Bioware fans.

So give them a break. They're doing what they can, and we know they do it well.

It doesn't mean they can't and won't fail. It means this is an evolution.

Remember-

Evolution is necessary. The line in the sand has been drawn. And Bioware is ready to cross it.

Modifié par LPPrince, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:40 .

[Querne]

It doesn't mean they can't and won't fail. It means this is an evolution.

Remember-

Evolution is necessary. The line in the sand has been drawn. And Bioware is ready to cross it.

I guess there were meant to be some beats of the drum and fiddles during the last three lines?

No, the hybrid doesn ´t seem to have been the most successfull:

http://www.escapistm...ng-BioWare-Game

That´s why most of us have no clue why they improve it for the worse.

Modifié par Querne, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:47 .

[Khavos]

Bioware was very used to creating straight up RPG's. They took a risk with Mass Effect, and it succeeded tenfold.

Mass Effect 2 ended up becoming one of the highest rated games of all time, ranked at #14 by Gamerankings with an average review of 95.66%.

Obviously, Bioware had the right idea.

Dragon Age:Origins was their blast to the past, and it was highly successful in its own right, but not as successful as their hybrid.

Actually, DA:O outsold ME1 considerably, and is believed to have outsold ME2.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Unless EA brings out solid sales numbers for those games I wouldn't be making such claims

[JeanLuc761]

Querne wrote...

It doesn't mean they can't and won't fail. It means this is an evolution.

Remember-

Evolution is necessary. The line in the sand has been drawn. And Bioware is ready to cross it.

I guess there were meant to be some beats of the drum and fiddles during the last three lines?

No, the hybrid was not the most successfull:

http://www.escapistm...ng-BioWare-Game

That´s why most of us have no clue why they change it.

If they don't change it up, they get accused of being stagnant.  If they change it up, they get yelled at for not delivering more of the same.

It's a lose-lose situation they've got goign on here.

[LPPrince]

Querne wrote...

It doesn't mean they can't and won't fail. It means this is an evolution.

Remember-

Evolution is necessary. The line in the sand has been drawn. And Bioware is ready to cross it.

I guess there were meant to be some beats of the drum and fiddles during the last three lines?

No, the hybrid was not the most successfull:

http://www.escapistm...ng-BioWare-Game

That´s why most of us have no clue why they improve it for the worse.

Pointless to compare total sales figures because its as they said it-

DAO was on 3 consoles, not 2. Much more profit can come from a spread of 3 than a spread of 2.

You must compare system to system.

[Khavos]

LPPrince wrote...
Pointless to compare total sales figures because its as they said it-

DAO was on 3 consoles, not 2. Much more profit can come from a spread of 3 than a spread of 2.

You must compare system to system.

If you have the figures, I'd love to see them.  As of now, though, Bioware claims that DA:O was their best-selling game to date.  

[jesuno]

All I know is it is time to rally the TRUE fans of Dragon Age. We all know that Bioware is getting closer and closer to going the way of Old Yeller, and it is time we took a stand. Revolt against the corporation, and return Dragon Age to the masses so that we a real sequel, not some action oriented, cartoony, spoon feed nightmare. Join us, the call to arms has been sounded.

[LPPrince]

Khavos wrote...

Bioware was very used to creating straight up RPG's. They took a risk with Mass Effect, and it succeeded tenfold.

Mass Effect 2 ended up becoming one of the highest rated games of all time, ranked at #14 by Gamerankings with an average review of 95.66%.

Obviously, Bioware had the right idea.

Dragon Age:Origins was their blast to the past, and it was highly successful in its own right, but not as successful as their hybrid.

Actually, DA:O outsold ME1 considerably, and is believed to have outsold ME2.

Again-

ME1/ME2 were sold on 2 consoles, not 3. So you can't compare total figures.

But its proven fact that both ME1 and ME2 outsold DAO on the 360. The picture's floating around somewhere on these boards. PC-wise, I'm sure(of course, I'm assuming here) that DAO outsold both, and it definitely outsold them PS3 wise since you know, not a single copy of the ME series is even out on PS3.

So you can't use the "total sales figures" argument as a retort.

[Querne]

If it´s pointless, you shouldn´t write that the hybrid was more successful. PCs were clearly main target audience.

Modifié par Querne, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:51 .

[LPPrince]

Khavos wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Pointless to compare total sales figures because its as they said it-

DAO was on 3 consoles, not 2. Much more profit can come from a spread of 3 than a spread of 2.

You must compare system to system.

If you have the figures, I'd love to see them.  As of now, though, Bioware claims that DA:O was their best-selling game to date.  

Of course its best selling. Three>Two.

[LPPrince]

Querne wrote...

If it´s pointless, you shouldn´t write that the hybrid was more successful.

Success isn't solely based on sales figures.

While that is a huge chunk of it(as every developer wants as many copies sold as possible), ratings and reception matter as well.

DAO got great ratings, but nowhere near as critically acclaimed as ME2.