416 réponses à ce sujet

[Patr10t1]

This Game going to be H O T. That is all

[Orfinn]

The Bioware forums seems alredy like the messed up Bungie and Blizzard forums after the announcement of DA 2. Seeds of complaining and nonsense, everywhere! What the heck happened to my three favorite BBB's forums?

[TMZuk]

Narreneth wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

The exception that proves the rule.

Baldur's Gate Series, Mass Effect 1 and 2, Dragon Age, NWN, Jade Empire, KOTOR.

Woooo. 

From those I'd actually call Baldur's Gate the exception.

Just saying.

You're right.  Baldur's Gate was sooooooo terrible.

...............

Then I seriously wonder why you play RPG's at all, or if you have an inkling what an RPG is? Because it is only barely ME and certainly not ME2. Fun games as those to were, ME only have the basest of RPG elements, and ME2 is an action/adventure-game.

[Narreneth]

TMZuk wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

The exception that proves the rule.

Baldur's Gate Series, Mass Effect 1 and 2, Dragon Age, NWN, Jade Empire, KOTOR.

Woooo. 

From those I'd actually call Baldur's Gate the exception.

Just saying.

You're right.  Baldur's Gate was sooooooo terrible.

...............

Then I seriously wonder why you play RPG's at all, or if you have an inkling what an RPG is? Because it is only barely ME and certainly not ME2. Fun games as those to were, ME only have the basest of RPG elements, and ME2 is an action/adventure-game.

That was sarcasm you twit.

Also, your definition of RPGs is very very very ad infinitum narrow. 

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Narreneth wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

YOU don't give your character life.  YOU don't even get to decide *what* your character says to people.  You choose from a list of pre-determined responses in *every* situation.  If *you* are adding life that isn't in those lines and scenes originally, you are misintepreting what is happening.  

Yes of course we choose from a limited list of options.

And when the option for my character doesn't exist, I have the option of pretending it does through THE IMAGINATIONZ.  


That is the worst logic I've ever heard.  If that's the case you can use IMAGINATIONZ as you so eloquently put it to "imagine" whatever life you want that the voice acting leaves out.  Are you really that stupid?

The whole purpose of using my imagination (which in this case refers to imaging the way my character is speaking a line) is to PREVENT those jarring situations where your character says something out of character.  If I'm playing as a violent dalish elf who hates humans but my only options when rescuing a human farmer in a random encounter are :

1. I'm glad to be of service.
2. GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY
3. NO REALLY GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY

None of those options really fit, but with a bit of imaginationz you can make the first option fit quite well (Assuming your character is still a Good Alignment, Neutral or Evil versions would have an easier time roleplaying this scene) if you read it in a tone similar to Morrigan's sarcastic'condescending tone she uses quite often early on in the game.

Truly, Bioware is mostly pretty good about including enough options that I can atleast find one that suits my needs, but they can't predict every possible character personality. (And accomodate it through dialog)  


I don't need my character to express the emotions visually because 1. The emotions that character experiences are dictated by who that character is ( which is in turn dictated by the player).  and  2. Bioware does a well enough job of conveying the emotions of a scene through NPC voice acting, lighting and what not that I don't need my character to adopt a "Sadface" to explain the intent of the scene to me. (Obviously the sadface is a very primitive example of this, but I think it's a rather good one seeing as it could look completely stupid on the majority of characters in DA:O )

Modifié par ITSSEXYTIME, 13 juillet 2010 - 03:54 .

[LyletheBloody]

I think the streamlining really helped Mass Effect 2 and for me really enhanced the RPG experience. I definitely WOULD like to see things like the cinematic conversation system implemented in DA. I would be willing to give up races to get that.



However, I think BioWare needs to iterate on this and not unilaterally apply a different game's systems on a different IP/franchise without extensive testing and QA. I guarantee you I would NOT be happy if for ME 3 we somehow went back to KOTOR's mechanics. The different systems make the game series unique and that is a good thing and something that shouldn't be tossed away without a damn good reason.



Excited exclamation: Money alone is not a good enough reason.

[JeanLuc761]

Narreneth wrote...

That was sarcasm you twit.

Also, your definition of RPGs is very very very ad infinitum narrow. 

While I agree with essentially everything you've said so far, insults aren't going to help your argument. 

[David Gaider]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Well, I wasn't aware Bioware valued some money over others.

We don't.

My point is that some people apparently think we should-- that the "console kiddie" or the person with "no imagination" or the person who plays a game only once is somehow less worthwhile a person to develop a game for even though they spent exactly the same amount of money on the game as the PC gamer, the person with all the imagination in the world who likes to read their own dialogue or the person who re-plays the game a hundred times (or hangs out on these forums, even).

My point is that if you wish to use arguments with each other, or with us, as to why you should be listened to-- perhaps leaving elitism out of it would be the smart choice, that's all I'm saying.

Modifié par David Gaider, 13 juillet 2010 - 03:59 .

[Orfinn]

My point is that if you wish to use arguments with each other, or with us, as to why you should be listened to-- perhaps leaving elitism out of it would be the smart choice, that's all I'm saying.

No offense but, elitism... And the pyramid eye of Illimunati aint the symbol of it? Did I miss something?



To topic: Anyway. I think people should really settle down, chill off and be open minded and constructive as far as critism goes. I find the new twist of features, Bioware are giving us, refreshing to say at least.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

David Gaider wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Well, I wasn't aware Bioware valued some money over others.

We don't.

My point is that some people apparently think we should-- that the "console kiddie" or the person with "no imagination" or the person who plays a game only once is somehow less worthwhile a person to develop a game for even though they spent exactly the same amount of money on the game as the PC gamer, the person with all the imagination in the world who likes to read their own dialogue or the person who re-plays the game a hundred times (or hangs out on these forums, even).

My point is that if you wish to use arguments with each other, or with us, as to why you should be listened to-- perhaps leaving elitism out of it would be the smart choice, that's all I'm saying.

A valid perspective, however an element of elitism is somewhat required when arguing over such a subjective matter don't you think?  You have to be atleast a little elitist to believe that your opinion is more valid afterall.  My original comment was just far more blunt about it than your average forumgoer, (even though it was half jokingly) partially because it grows tiresome repeating the same argument repeatedly for new faces.

[Bobad]

David Gaider wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Well, I wasn't aware Bioware valued some money over others.

We don't.

My point is that some people apparently think we should-- that the "console kiddie" or the person with "no imagination" or the person who plays a game only once is somehow less worthwhile a person to develop a game for even though they spent exactly the same amount of money on the game as the PC gamer, the person with all the imagination in the world who likes to read their own dialogue or the person who re-plays the game a hundred times (or hangs out on these forums, even).

My point is that if you wish to use arguments with each other, or with us, as to why you should be listened to-- perhaps leaving elitism out of it would be the smart choice, that's all I'm saying.

Well surely Monopoly money would be frowned upon, if not heres a pink 500 for DA2:CE. 

Seriously though I love games but the industry is worth so much these days that targeting one group would be very silly indeed, if any company followed that business plan that company wouldn't exist.

 A cogent and sensible point given from an open minded perspective is the very best way to have people listen to you, works in real life a lot of the time too.

 

[Narreneth]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

YOU don't give your character life.  YOU don't even get to decide *what* your character says to people.  You choose from a list of pre-determined responses in *every* situation.  If *you* are adding life that isn't in those lines and scenes originally, you are misintepreting what is happening.  

Yes of course we choose from a limited list of options.

And when the option for my character doesn't exist, I have the option of pretending it does through THE IMAGINATIONZ.  


That is the worst logic I've ever heard.  If that's the case you can use IMAGINATIONZ as you so eloquently put it to "imagine" whatever life you want that the voice acting leaves out.  Are you really that stupid?

The whole purpose of using my imagination (which in this case refers to imaging the way my character is speaking a line) is to PREVENT those jarring situations where your character says something out of character.  If I'm playing as a violent dalish elf who hates humans but my only options when rescuing a human farmer in a random encounter are :

1. I'm glad to be of service.
2. GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY
3. NO REALLY GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY

None of those options really fit, but with a bit of imaginationz you can make the first option fit quite well (Assuming your character is still a Good Alignment, Neutral or Evil versions would have an easier time roleplaying this scene) if you read it in a tone similar to Morrigan's sarcastic'condescending tone she uses quite often early on in the game.

Truly, Bioware is mostly pretty good about including enough options that I can atleast find one that suits my needs, but they can't predict every possible character personality. (And accomodate it through dialog)  


I don't need my character to express the emotions visually because 1. The emotions that character experiences are dictated by who that character is ( which is in turn dictated by the player).  and  2. Bioware does a well enough job of conveying the emotions of a scene through NPC voice acting, lighting and what not that I don't need my character to adopt a "Sadface" to explain the intent of the scene to me. (Obviously the sadface is a very primitive example of this, but I think it's a rather good one seeing as it could look completely stupid on the majority of characters in DA:O )

The characters you interact with react the same to no matter what you imagine yourself to be saying or how you imagine yourself saying it.  That is a completely invalid point.  If the NPCs are doing the scene-setting for you and you fail to pick up on the fact that everything you're "imagining" doesn't fit with what is actually going on then you're fairly hopeless. 

[Addai]

Narreneth wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

DA2 has JUST been announced..everyone is already thinking ist will suck, it will be like mass effect, that the graphics still look lame, that hawke is a stupid character...ITS JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED PEOPLE...it wont be released to freaking 2011 in march.

and to all the complaints everyone has had

"ITS JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED PEOPLE, so stop complaining because you don't know anything about the game, but I'm going to go on and list all the ways in which I just know it will be epic and awesome!"

You're funny.

At least his assumption is based on an established history of good games rather than jumps in logic.

DAO was the first Bioware game I played and I tossed Mass Effect back to the dustbunnies after trying it, so that's my history.

Everyone says how good Baldur's Gate was, so how is it that you're excited to hear Bioware say "this used to be the spiritual successor of BG but no longer"?

[Narreneth]

Orfinn wrote...

My point is that if you wish to use arguments with each other, or with us, as to why you should be listened to-- perhaps leaving elitism out of it would be the smart choice, that's all I'm saying.

No offense but, elitism... And the pyramid eye of Illimunati aint the symbol of it? Did I miss something?

To topic: Anyway. I think people should really settle down, chill off and be open minded and constructive as far as critism goes. I find the new twist of features, Bioware are giving us, refreshing to say at least.

The Illuminati?  Oh FFS.  Leave your crazy out of this discussion.

[StreetlightEagle]

Haha, Gaider just owns. We have nearly no details and you are all whining about having a voiced character and having to play as a human? Those things really aren't that important in terms of story or gameplay. Please, just get over it.

[Narreneth]

Addai67 wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

DA2 has JUST been announced..everyone is already thinking ist will suck, it will be like mass effect, that the graphics still look lame, that hawke is a stupid character...ITS JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED PEOPLE...it wont be released to freaking 2011 in march.

and to all the complaints everyone has had

"ITS JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED PEOPLE, so stop complaining because you don't know anything about the game, but I'm going to go on and list all the ways in which I just know it will be epic and awesome!"

You're funny.

At least his assumption is based on an established history of good games rather than jumps in logic.

DAO was the first Bioware game I played and I tossed Mass Effect back to the dustbunnies after trying it, so that's my history.

Everyone says how good Baldur's Gate was, so how is it that you're excited to hear Bioware say "this used to be the spiritual successor of BG but no longer"?

I am completely flaberghasted at how many people think "spiritual successor" means "exactly like." 

[EmStar202]

All right guys, I think it's time for everyone to take a deep, cleansing breath.
In other words... calm down! We don't even know much about the game yet, and already everyone is jumping down each other's throats. Can't we all just get along?

[Lord_Saulot]

Addai67 wrote...

Everyone says how good Baldur's Gate was, so how is it that you're excited to hear Bioware say "this used to be the spiritual successor of BG but no longer"?

Link please?  Where did they say that?

As far as I can tell, the game is preserving the same feel as DAO and DA will continue to be the spiritual successor to that series.

Of course, let's remember, this "not a real spiritual successor" talk was all there a year ago, before DAO came out.  The Bioware team at that point helpfully pointed out that "spiritual successor" does not mean that it preserves every specific feature that a specific person prefers.

[Addai]

David Gaider wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Well, I wasn't aware Bioware valued some money over others.

We don't.

My point is that some people apparently think we should-- that the "console kiddie" or the person with "no imagination" or the person who plays a game only once is somehow less worthwhile a person to develop a game for even though they spent exactly the same amount of money on the game as the PC gamer, the person with all the imagination in the world who likes to read their own dialogue or the person who re-plays the game a hundred times (or hangs out on these forums, even).

My point is that if you wish to use arguments with each other, or with us, as to why you should be listened to-- perhaps leaving elitism out of it would be the smart choice, that's all I'm saying.

There is a perception, rightly or wrongly, that games are only being made and marketed to the "console kiddie."

Also, a person who plays the game once and tosses it away is less likely to buy DLCs, promotional material and help with free buzz by word of mouth, Facebook, etc.  Or so it seems to me.

[ShadyKat]

As the years pass, I have notice more and more whining and crying on the Internet. No matter what boards you go to, the overall ****ing is at an all time high. If anyone doesn't get exactly want they want, they have to rant and cry. It is really sad imho.

[Narreneth]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Everyone says how good Baldur's Gate was, so how is it that you're excited to hear Bioware say "this used to be the spiritual successor of BG but no longer"?

Link please?  Where did they say that?

As far as I can tell, the game is preserving the same feel as DAO and DA will continue to be the spiritual successor to that series.

Of course, let's remember, this "not a real spiritual successor" talk was all there a year ago, before DAO came out.  The Bioware team at that point helpfully pointed out that "spiritual successor" does not mean that it preserves every specific feature that a specific person prefers.

I've been trying to get that point across for awhile now.  Doesn't seem to work.  People apparently just want to be upset.

[Addai]

Narreneth wrote...

I am completely flaberghasted at how many people think "spiritual successor" means "exactly like." 

Since I've never played Baldur's Gate, I could hardly be saying that, could I?  I do know my husband bought DAO, at full retail and with the game guide on the day it came out, because he liked Baldur's Gate and heard that it was going to be in a similar vein.  That was enough to win his trust.

However, people are pointing at Bioware's history as proof that DA2 is going to be awesomesauce, using BG as a reference, but the Game Informer interview indicates that DA2 is being taken in a different direction.  It doesn't seem logical to me.

[Waage25]

David Gaider wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Well, I wasn't aware Bioware valued some money over others.

We don't.

My point is that some people apparently think we should-- that the "console kiddie" or the person with "no imagination" or the person who plays a game only once is somehow less worthwhile a person to develop a game for even though they spent exactly the same amount of money on the game as the PC gamer, the person with all the imagination in the world who likes to read their own dialogue or the person who re-plays the game a hundred times (or hangs out on these forums, even).

My point is that if you wish to use arguments with each other, or with us, as to why you should be listened to-- perhaps leaving elitism out of it would be the smart choice, that's all I'm saying.

If our money is all the same then why are we getting punished??.

We bought the first game, the DLC and the expansion and in return you remove every thing that made the game special and instead we get Dragon Effect.

Not that i care after all i am on the PC and we get a proper version like the last time. The only thing i worry about is if the convo system will it be like Awaking or like it was in Dragon age and mass Effect.

I do like the rage!.

Modifié par Waage25, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:26 .

[Lord_Saulot]

Narreneth wrote...

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Everyone says how good Baldur's Gate was, so how is it that you're excited to hear Bioware say "this used to be the spiritual successor of BG but no longer"?

Link please?  Where did they say that?

As far as I can tell, the game is preserving the same feel as DAO and DA will continue to be the spiritual successor to that series.

Of course, let's remember, this "not a real spiritual successor" talk was all there a year ago, before DAO came out.  The Bioware team at that point helpfully pointed out that "spiritual successor" does not mean that it preserves every specific feature that a specific person prefers.

I've been trying to get that point across for awhile now.  Doesn't seem to work.  People apparently just want to be upset.

Indeed - many of these complaints were made by BG2 fans prior to DAO's release, and are now being repeated by DAO fans prior to DA2.  I find it hard to get too worked about anything once I've already seen it play out.  But I appreciate that someone else sees the same thing I do.  Thanks!

But, I do think its gotten better.  The outright negativity of the first day of the announcement has given way some what as information bleeds out.  The tone of the forum is more mixed now, and I think enthusiasm is also building.

[Master Shiori]

Money is money, no matter the wallet it comes from. There's no real difference here.



But not every customer is the same. What makes them different is their dedication and belief that a certain company can deliver a product that will be to their liking even if it's not top notch in every departement when compared to what the competition is offering.



I love Bioware because of their dedication to giving us the best possible story and memorable characters in all their rpgs. As long as they give me that I won't be too bothered about how hot are the graphics or how awesome the combat is. To me your product doesn't have to be superior in every way to get my money.



Your average video game fan may not feel the same way. He could very well see DA2, compare it to other games on the market and decide not to give you his money for one reason or another.



Personally, I like to believe Bioware values it's dedicated fans just as much as those their more "casual" customers and recognizes the value of both groups.