15 réponses à ce sujet

[cipher86]

only one thing I don't like:

Dialogue wheel.

In games where I see exactly what it is my character will be responding with, I know exactly what to choose.  In Mass Effect games, I will sometimes choose an option from the dialogue wheel, and get a response that is not at all what I expected, or starts off good, and then takes it too far.

Eg. "What do you think of the color blue?

Choose wheel response: "I like it"

Shepard's dialogue: "I love the color blue, and anyone who doesn't should be dragged out into the middle of the street and shot."

Not actual dialogue, and purposely extreme, but you get the idea.  Having a human-only character is fine with me, as it's the only race I ever choose anyway.  Having a set name and voice is no big deal, and I'm looking forward to an overhauled combat system.  The BG I/II style is pretty dated.  I thought it was clunky back in the day but didn't have anything better to compare it to, and now that I've seen how fluently other RPGs can play, seeing the "real-time turn based" style make a comeback in DA:O made me realize how badly it needed to be re-invented.

Modifié par cipher86, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:35 .

[TheMadCat]

No worries, to solve the dialogue mishaps seen in Mass Effect the brilliant people at BioWare came up with the ultimate solution. Color coding the emotional level of each choice. Such a monumental step up from Mass Effect and surely the pinnacle of design.

[Gambient]

Another one of these threads. Mods, please close this.

[Davasar]

cipher86 wrote...

 I thought it was clunky back in the day but didn't have anything better to compare it to, and now that I've seen how fluently other RPGs can play, seeing the "real-time turn based" style make a comeback in DA:O made me realize how badly it needed to be re-invented.

"i needz to shuutz moar plz"

[cipher86]

Davasar wrote...
"i needz to shuutz moar plz"

That's a really poor argument, though this post confirms it was good enough to generate a response.

Modifié par cipher86, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:24 .

[Jirak.won]

cipher86 wrote...

only one thing I don't like:

Dialogue wheel.

In games where I see exactly what it is my character will be responding with, I know exactly what to choose.  In Mass Effect games, I will sometimes choose an option from the dialogue wheel, and get a response that is not at all what I expected, or starts off good, and then takes it too far.

Eg. "What do you think of the color blue?

Choose wheel response: "I like it"

Shepard's dialogue: "I love the color blue, and anyone who doesn't should be dragged out into the middle of the street and shot."

Not actual dialogue, and purposely extreme, but you get the idea.  Having a human-only character is fine with me, as it's the only race I ever choose anyway.  Having a set name and voice is no big deal, and I'm looking forward to an overhauled combat system.  The BG I/II style is pretty dated.  I thought it was clunky back in the day but didn't have anything better to compare it to, and now that I've seen how fluently other RPGs can play, seeing the "real-time turn based" style make a comeback in DA:O made me realize how badly it needed to be re-invented.

I agree sir.
If am talking than i want to know what exactly are my options.

[Arthur Cousland]

I'd actually like to see Shepard say the line about people not liking blue needing to be shot. That got a laugh out of me.

[Rubbish Hero]

What's clunky about pausing a game and moving a curser?  Would you rather we have wall cover and health regen? Possibly some Oblivion "press X to win" combat?

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:31 .

[Narreneth]

The thing is you don't always have an option that you would want to say anyway. Example: When Lady Isolde is acting hysterical and getting offensive with the Warden in Redcliffe castle when you're discussing the fate of Connor, I desperately wanted an option that said "Shut the **** up" but one did not exist. When you go through the options you always have an idea of what you want to say and you adapt your choice to the options you have before you. When it's written out in a simpler format that gives you the context of what you're going to say it really has the same results.



For what it's worth I chuckled pretty heartily at your "I like blue" example. Haha.

[Alodar]

To me the big difference is that it removes some of the ownership of your character.





In DAO in dialogue I carefully chose what my character would say depending on the personality that I was playing.



In DA2 I will choose the style I want my character to respond and then watch to see what Hawke actually says.



It's a subtle difference, but to me an important one.





Alodar

[Kalcalan]

The problem is that paraphrasing in itself is really bad as it can only lead to differences in meaning (ask any linguist). But the other solution would be for the voice over to repeat what the player has just read (like in the Witcher for instance) and despite the fact that what the character says matches what was written in the dialogue option it defeats the purpose of the voice over... What would be the point in choosing a line to have it read to you when you've just read it? That seems to be a waste of time. So paraphrasing seems to be the lesser evil...



To be blunt, I'm not that keen on voice overs, the only advantage I can see is that the main character will be free to interject during cutscenes and that will make it more cinematic for some players. Then again, I'd rather have real dialogue choices and no paraphrasing (DAO is a great game but there are some limitations as sometimes you feel dialogue options don't make much difference in the end).

[Narreneth]

Voice overs are almost always hit or miss for me. When they're good I really love them. When they're not, I can't stand them. In my opinion, BioWare has demonstrated good casting capabilities and I look forward to DA2 as I think the voice work will really add to the experience.

[cipher86]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

What's clunky about pausing a game and moving a curser?  Would you rather we have wall cover and health regen? Possibly some Oblivion "press X to win" combat?

See "The Witcher" for a great example of an RPG that has a different approach to the "real-time turn-based" style and still requires strategy to win.  No excessive use of the "Pause" button because you need to manage every characters decision every second (don't argue tactics, they are more problematic than helpful on any difficulty past "Normal"), no need for constant reloads due to battles relying on chance just as much as strategy, and no need to spend minutes before every battle buffing up because you don't know what lies in wait ahead (BGI/BGII reference, not DA:O).

I didn't say it needed to be discarded... but I did say it needed to be reinvented, and if they couldn't do that, replaced entirely.  They did make some improvements on the combat system seen in BGI/BGII, but not many.  Don't get me started on the "tactical" camera.

Modifié par cipher86, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:51 .

[Kalcalan]

Narreneth wrote...

Voice overs are almost always hit or miss for me. When they're good I really love them. When they're not, I can't stand them. In my opinion, BioWare has demonstrated good casting capabilities and I look forward to DA2 as I think the voice work will really add to the experience.

If Leliana's song is any indication then I guess it could work. Then again, you're right, voice overs need some really talented voice actors in order not to break immersion.

It's still a limitation as I don't expect we'll get more than one male and one female voice and that is not much when you want to define your character by picking a soundset (not that soundsets in DAO are that phenomenal, the ladder comment is a pain). Is there any reason why a scholarly Mage should sound like a gruff Warrior or a devious Rogue?

[Rubbish Hero]

cipher86 wrote...See "The Witcher" for a great example of an RPG that has a different approach to the "real-time turn-based" style and still requires strategy to win.

The witcher has pretty crappy combat. It was the story and setting that saved it.
In fact, pretty sure they have changed the combat for the sequel.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:52 .

[cipher86]

Rubbish Hero wrote...
The witcher has pretty crappy combat. It was the story and setting that saved it.
In fact, pretty sure they have changed the combat for the sequel.

It definitely needs tweaking, but I found it far from "crappy".  They are definitely updating it in the sequel, but from what I've read, it isn't going in an entirely new direction.  Just the base system evolving.

The way you feel about "The Witcher" is the same way I feel about "Dragon Age: Origins".  I didn't enjoy the combat in DA:O, but the story, setting, and characters more than made up for it.