158 réponses à ce sujet

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
Shand, you weren't about to say: "therefore, Cerberus must be doing a good job because they still have financiers" were you?

If they were doing a lousy job nobody would want to waste so much money on them.

cough SPIDER MAN 3 cough

Hmmm, I know nothing about spiderman.

There are plenty of people around (IRL) who would happily throw single-digit-percentile wads of cash, from their billion dollar plus vaults, if they consensually believed and had sufficient grounds to think that an independant black ops groups would pretty much strike-without-remorse at recalcintrant targets they could label as anti-patriot if it netted for them low cost new business opportunities and market monopolies etc.

They'll throw cash at something like that. Yes, it would be a requirement that they don't implode, but if they only need to be a brute force organisation then if they want to do slipshod, fail research projects until they're needed by daddy then tbh, I doubt they'd really give a crap... so long as they acted when daddy wants his pay off. The mindset is one of: "we need a crew together in case we need to strike"... and ... "if they are going to do research that enhances tech and advantages then yep do that too"

The profile matches Cerberus to a tea.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 15 juillet 2010 - 12:08 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...
So in other words Cerberus must be doing a good enough job to keep their investors happy.

Cerberus are doing a horrendous job. Financiers don't care until they need TIM for their own shoot-em-up
 (follows from my story)

[Giggles_Manically]

NORMANDY SR-2: Hundreds of Billions of Credits

Lazarus Project: Over 4 billion credits

Funding of Campaign: Millions more

Paragons blowing up yer base: PRICELESS.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
So in other words Cerberus must be doing a good enough job to keep their investors happy.

Cerberus are doing a horrendous job. Financiers don't care until they need TIM for their own shoot-em-up
 (follows from my story)

You've lost me.

Cerberus are a brute-force organisation. Anything more subtle - research etc - they screw it up (ressing Shep was a redeeming surprise in that regard). Cerberus fits this kind of role more closely. They have their financiers still (despite the screwups) because the financiers don't care about such things per se, they just need their payoff when they need it and it's not subtle work - its obvious terrorist stuff... they care about brute force jobs.

A profile (narrative) of Cerberus like this fits better. It's a pair of shoes that fit. TIMs aspirations are just a delusion because he over-rates his position. (he's really just a thug)

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 15 juillet 2010 - 12:44 .

[mosor]

RiouHotaru wrote...

EDI states that Cerberus uses dummy corporations as a front, which gives them a budget of several billion credits per year.

Yeah, I know, sorta ridiculous. But I agree, Cerberus' track record of utterly fantastic failures doesn't inspire any confidence, and Overlord was simply the final nail in the coffin (Honestly, if you really agreed with Archer's plan and didn't feel the least bit guilty about David you are a heartless, souless monster and possibly a liar)

I don't see overlord as a cerberus failure. In fact I see big potential there. They made great strides with david being able to control geth to a certain extent. Hopefully by giving them legion, they might be able to perfect that

As for Archer, I really don't feel guilty about leaving David with him. I got the feeling that Archer felt remorseful regarding his actions with his brother and will probably handle things differently in the future. However, that research is important because a lot of lives are at stake. The needs of the many come before the needs of the few. You have to look at the big picture. I'm not a heartless souless monster. I'm a pragmatist.

[Giggles_Manically]

The greatest monsters are the ones that claim that their acts are for a good end.

[SandTrout]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The greatest monsters are the ones that claim that their acts are for a good end.

Only if they don't get the results they intended.

[Giggles_Manically]

SandTrout wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The greatest monsters are the ones that claim that their acts are for a good end.

Only if they don't get the results they intended.

You do realize that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Castro, Mao Zedong, and dozens of other dictators all claimed their actions were good ones that would be helpful.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
A profile (narrative) of Cerberus like this fits better. It's a pair of shoes that fit. TIMs aspirations are just a delusion because he over-rates his position. (he's really just a thug)

Sorry, but I hate most fanfiction, including yours.

i think honestly, its a profile that actually fits. calling it fanfiction is words to help you feel more supple about a situation that you don't like. Why is it so hard: TIM is a douche. It's not a new concept.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 15 juillet 2010 - 01:10 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Fanfiction is bad. Everytime someone posts some a fairy gets ground into cocaine and snorted.

[SandTrout]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
You do realize that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Castro, Mao Zedong, and dozens of other dictators all claimed their actions were good ones that would be helpful.

I am aware. But are you aware that Harry Truman is the only person to order the use of Nuclear Weapons on a populated area? Or that General Sherman essentially burned his way through the South to the coast durring the American Civil War? There are many other cases of people doing terrible things to achieve an end that is just, and they are not considered mosters like Hitler and Stalin because they got the correct results.
I'm not defending the terrible actions, but it should be noted that history is hardly unbiased on this point. Cerberus is known to us as a useless organization and a liability to the safty of the Galaxy because we have only been exposed to their experiments that went wrong. They likely have made strides in the advancement of human kind, but they don't want or need the publicity, so they let others take credit for them. Their screw ups are harder to conceal and thus have entered our sphere of knowlege. It's foolish to assume that we know about all the relevent Cerberus operations.

[Giggles_Manically]

SandTrout wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
You do realize that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Castro, Mao Zedong, and dozens of other dictators all claimed their actions were good ones that would be helpful.

I am aware. But are you aware that Harry Truman is the only person to order the use of Nuclear Weapons on a populated area? Or that General Sherman essentially burned his way through the South to the coast durring the American Civil War? There are many other cases of people doing terrible things to achieve an end that is just, and they are not considered mosters like Hitler and Stalin because they got the correct results.
I'm not defending the terrible actions, but it should be noted that history is hardly unbiased on this point. Cerberus is known to us as a useless organization and a liability to the safty of the Galaxy because we have only been exposed to their experiments that went wrong. They likely have made strides in the advancement of human kind, but they don't want or need the publicity, so they let others take credit for them. Their screw ups are harder to conceal and thus have entered our sphere of knowlege. It's foolish to assume that we know about all the relevent Cerberus operations.

Simply because we havent heard of their success stories dosent mean they exist. Till I get evidence that they actually pulled something off without a hitch they are still TEAM ROCKET in space to me.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

[quote]SandTrout wrote...

[quote]Giggles_Manically wrote...
You do realize that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Castro, Mao Zedong, and dozens of other dictators all claimed their actions were good ones that would be helpful.[/quote] I am aware. But are you aware that Harry Truman is the only person to order the use of Nuclear Weapons on a populated area? Or that General Sherman essentially burned his way through the South to the coast durring the American Civil War? There are many other cases of people doing terrible things to achieve an end that is just, and they are not considered mosters like Hitler and Stalin because they got the correct results.
[/quote]
wow, bad example there... you might want to reconsider the obvious: they're not considered evil because they're american (ipso facto, the others are considered evil because they are not American)


(ipso facto is bs latin, but it fits there)
[/quote]

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 15 juillet 2010 - 01:36 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Shandepared wrote...

We have heard of Cerberus success stories but you all ignore them.

Name five.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...
We have heard of Cerberus success stories but you all ignore them.

You have heard of Cerberus failures, but you ignore them.


Hmm. i gtg. bbl.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 15 juillet 2010 - 01:39 .

[SandTrout]

Ok, I am more familiar with American history to be able to make those calls on deeds vs results, but they're not monsters b/c they're Americans, its b/c they're the victorys. I'll toss in a few more in any case. Caesar was only a 'bad guy' when he tried to take over the Roman Republic, even though he enslaved thousands of Gauls during his campaign. Alexander the Great conquered one of the largest empires of the ancient world in a series of military campaigns, including several battles where his soldiers slaughtered and/or raped every man, woman, and child within the city. It is our nature to villainize our enemies, and the victor determines who history remembers as good or evil, heroic or incompetent.

[thepiebaker]

RiouHotaru wrote...

EDI states that Cerberus uses dummy corporations as a front, which gives them a budget of several billion credits per year.

Yeah, I know, sorta ridiculous. But I agree, Cerberus' track record of utterly fantastic failures doesn't inspire any confidence, and Overlord was simply the final nail in the coffin (Honestly, if you really agreed with Archer's plan and didn't feel the least bit guilty about David you are a heartless, souless monster and possibly a liar)

quite seriously the only reason why i took david away from him was because i was on paragon playthrough... my instinct went right to "keep a tighter leash on your pet next time or nutter him":devil:


but anyway we dont know about any of cerberus's acheivments besides those related to sheps story. which was mostly the lazerus project and the handful of equipment that they hand shep through DLC. if you read the message the arc projector was invented by cerberus, if memory serves right.

there are many debates on wither or not cerberus is still part of the alliance. my vote is yes. the cover of cerberus being a rouge terrorist organization is perfect cover to place any failures or unethical experiments the alliance has. and we all know that the alliance, as most govenment's that are currently on earth, are performing said experiments, i even suspect the united states is in this category... these experiments need to be done, and by god someones got to do them. so if cerberus does succeed then the alliance probably steals all of the glory for themselves and slap the cerberus logo on everything else