158 réponses à ce sujet

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Name five.

I only count 3... the mounting number of personell lost is bringing into question the perseverance of their HR department.
Funding won't be the issue, getting enough non-dead scientists is.
We're not talking Guinea Pigs here... we're talking hard core cutting edge scientists? Cerberus chews through em.

REQUIRED SHEP:
1.) Create human biotics - success (who?) (Jack?) SUCCESS REQUIRED SHEPARD RECOVERING JACK
2.) Use pain to induce more powerful biotic abilities - success BY SHEPARD (Jack)
3.) Use the Normandy project to gain insight into turian technologies
and create a new type of ship - success GARRUS THROUGH SHEPARD
7.) Lure the Collectors to Horizon so they can be driven off - success BY SHEPARD
8.) Data-mine the Collector ship - success BY SHEPARD
11.) Locate the Reaper I.F.F. and recover it for retrieval - success BY SHEPARD
12.) Determine whether it is possible for a human-V.I. interface to control the geth - success BY SHEPARD, TEAM LOST, LOST, LOST. ALSO HERE: IF IT WASN'T SHEP, basically forget the Reapers, everyone is funked.
16.) Compile a team to stop the Collector attacks - success BY SHEPARD
19.) Develop a new ground vehicle (the Firewalker) and locate valuable Prothean technology - success BY SHEPARD, TEAMS AND TEAMS LOST.
20.) Create powerful human biotics with the use of administered drugs (Gillian) - success, NOPE, THAT HAPPENED AT GRISSOM ACAD, without grissom acad, not poss.
15.) Find a way to infiltrate the Migrant Fleet - success, nope, they actually FAILED on that mission - get Gillian back.

VARIABLE SUCCESS:
13.) Put Charle's Saracino in charge of the Terra-Firma Party - success, (YOUR POV)
14.) Assassinate former head of the Terra-Firma Party - success, (YOUR POV)
9.) Locate the weapon that made the rift on Klendagon - success, TEAM LOST
10.) Locate the target of said weapon - success, TEAL MOST (HOW MANY TOP SCIENTISTS DO THEY HAVE AGAIN?)
17.) Stop the batarians from assassinating the Council - success, JACOBS MISSION? I THOUGH HE WAS WITH CORSAIRS THEN?


ACTUAL SUCCESS (ONLY 3):
4.) Stop the Shadow Broker from obtaining Commander Shepard's body - success, same as 5,
5.) Restore Commander Shepard to life - success, same as 4 (AND THEY STILL MANAGED TO LOSE ANOTHER TEAM... how many teams is that now they've lost? 8? wow)
6.) Use technology recovered from Sovereign to build a stable and effective artificial intelligence - success
18.) Develop new weapons such as the arc projector - success 

Without Shepard, Cerberus = FAIL.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 15 juillet 2010 - 07:53 .

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote...

So in other words Cerberus must be doing a good enough job to keep their investors happy.

Investment companies are not a bunch of purely logical computers that always see the long term profit in all projects. They are rather consultants that try to invest their clients money into something the client is interested in. Cerberus vague ideas about "humanitys best" is enough to keep many investors happy just like many investors in real life throws money at anything that claims to be "for the nations best" despite what it actualy produces. Cerberus investors want to hear TIMmy say that they are the smartest and best in the world. TIMmy delivers some vague nonsense that makes them all feel like the saviours of world, wich is more than enough reason for them to pay him. This is how most terrorist organisations get their money in our real world.

[mosor]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...



ACTUAL SUCCESS (ONLY 3):
4.) Stop the Shadow Broker from obtaining Commander Shepard's body - success, same as 5,
5.) Restore Commander Shepard to life - success, same as 4 (AND THEY STILL MANAGED TO LOSE ANOTHER TEAM... how many teams is that now they've lost? 8? wow)
6.) Use technology recovered from Sovereign to build a stable and effective artificial intelligence - success
18.) Develop new weapons such as the arc projector - success 

Without Shepard, Cerberus = FAIL.

Actually you're being disingenuous. You're only counting known sucesses to the player/reader. Seriously you don't buid a multi-billion dollar enterprise on a large string of failures. In all probability they've had tons of sucessess. It's just that not every cell is aware what the other cell is doing.

As for losing people during their sucesses. Sucessess is measured by accomplishing a stated goal. Casualties are a fact of life. However, if your goal is accomplished, then it's a sucess.

[Netzach]

1.) Create human biotics - success (who?) (Jack?) SUCCESS REQUIRED SHEPARD RECOVERING JACK

I think you didn't realise that Cerberus created EVERY human biotic, not only specifics one. They found the way to give humanity such power.

Modifié par kanuvis, 15 juillet 2010 - 07:40 .

[SandTrout]

kanuvis wrote...

1.) Create human biotics - success (who?) (Jack?) SUCCESS REQUIRED SHEPARD RECOVERING JACK

I think you didn't realise that Cerberus created EVERY human biotic, not only specifics one. They found the way to give humanity such power.

Ok, this one's new to me. Biotics result from Eezo exposure, primarily drive core accidents or starship wrecks. They exist in every space-faring species that's been around for a generation or more. I fail to see how you can give Cerberus credit for the creation of human biotics.
I'm not saying outright that you're wrong, but I would like to see the source on this one.

[Netzach]

SandTrout wrote...

kanuvis wrote...

1.) Create human biotics - success (who?) (Jack?) SUCCESS REQUIRED SHEPARD RECOVERING JACK

I think you didn't realise that Cerberus created EVERY human biotic, not only specifics one. They found the way to give humanity such power.

Ok, this one's new to me. Biotics result from Eezo exposure, primarily drive core accidents or starship wrecks. They exist in every space-faring species that's been around for a generation or more. I fail to see how you can give Cerberus credit for the creation of human biotics.
I'm not saying outright that you're wrong, but I would like to see the source on this one.

Oh, do you think they are called "terrorist" because of actions during Mass Effect? It's obvious they provoqued those eezo exposures, before that everyone in the galaxy believed humans couldn't be biotics (even humans themselves believed that).

Yeah, it was Cerberus, probably when they still were part of the Alliance (officially) and probably this was the event who provoqued the Alliance to declare Cerberus a renegade group.

Related: http://masseffect.wi...atix_Industries

Modifié par kanuvis, 15 juillet 2010 - 08:04 .

[SandTrout]

kanuvis wrote...
Oh, do you think they are called "terrorist" because of actions during Mass Effect? It's obvious they provoqued those eezo exposures, before that everyone in the galaxy believed humans couldn't be biotics (even humans themselves believed that).

Yeah, it was Cerberus, probably when they still were part of the Alliance (officially) and probably this was the event who provoqued the Alliance to declare Cerberus a renegade group.

Well, they couldn't POSSIBLY be called terrorist for thinks like luring Alliance Marines into a Thresher-maw nest in order to test the effects of the venom on Humans, or assassinating heads of political parties, or setting up illegal AI research, or are suspected of planting reaper-tech on human colonies to test indoctronation.... No, it HAS to be because they detonated drive cores around populated areas in order to create human biotics. Sorry, while I agree that Cerberus is probably far more competent than many have been lead to believe b/c of all the clearup missions, this particular arguement that Cerberus essentially 'invented' human biotics holds no water without some evidence to back it up.
Granted, I don't doubt that Cerberus would be perfectly willing to cause 'accidents' in order to create more human biotics, you can't really credit them for the first ones with only speculation.

[pprrff]

Cerbrus tend to undertake a lot of mission/project that was very high risk/high reward to start with. That more than anything else is probably why Cerbrus fails at rather alarming rate. If they move at a much slower pace, take greater precaution and pick place work place safety over getting results, things wouldn't blow up in the face that often.

[Platypus92]

I'm not sure how you can say they are incompetent when the operations you encounter in ME1 only go wrong because they are unable to stop Shepard, the guy who stops the Reapers frome destroying all galactic life, from taking out their bases.

Modifié par Platypus92, 15 juillet 2010 - 10:37 .

[Netzach]

SandTrout wrote...
Well, they couldn't POSSIBLY be called terrorist for thinks like luring Alliance Marines into a Thresher-maw nest in order to test the effects of the venom on Humans, or assassinating heads of political parties, or setting up illegal AI research, or are suspected of planting reaper-tech on human colonies to test indoctronation.... No, it HAS to be because they detonated drive cores around populated areas in order to create human biotics. Sorry, while I agree that Cerberus is probably far more competent than many have been lead to believe b/c of all the clearup missions, this particular arguement that Cerberus essentially 'invented' human biotics holds no water without some evidence to back it up.
Granted, I don't doubt that Cerberus would be perfectly willing to cause 'accidents' in order to create more human biotics, you can't really credit them for the first ones with only speculation.

Obviously there are a lot of reassons to call them terrorist, but Akuze events, for example, happens years later (2177) while human hability for biotics was in 2150 and it's said "after a series of starship accidents", a series, involving more than one, can't be casual. Also Conatix Induestrie.

Cerberus is a terrorist group far before Mass Effect 1, i'll bet anything for Cerberus being created just after the discovered of protheans ruins in Mars but i have no proof on this. The rest is up to you to decide, we know Cerberus is capable of doing anything to improve humanity and the best improve before Mass Effect: Retribution is biotics, but of course, the merit of this should be shared with the Alliance.

Whatever it is, we need more about what happened between 2147-2150.

[nikki191]

the one thing i have learned about cerberus is that the way to defeat them is to do nothing .. eventually they will end up destroying themselves

[SandTrout]

kanuvis wrote...

I understand your viewpoint, but it's also worth noting from conversations with Kaiden Alenko in ME1 that exposures don't start getting fishy until around 2163 when 1st gen subjects were running out. I find it likely that this is a reasonaly 'birthday' for Cerberus. Conatix certainly has all the halmarks of a Cerberus operation - pushing as hard and fast as possible with little concern for individual safety as long as there are results. Again though, Conatix was not formed until after the exposures showed biotic abilities. Its original purpose was to track exposures.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

mosor wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

ACTUAL SUCCESS (ONLY 3):
4.) Stop the Shadow Broker from obtaining Commander Shepard's body - success, same as 5,
5.) Restore Commander Shepard to life - success, same as 4 (AND THEY STILL MANAGED TO LOSE ANOTHER TEAM... how many teams is that now they've lost? 8? wow)
6.) Use technology recovered from Sovereign to build a stable and effective artificial intelligence - success
18.) Develop new weapons such as the arc projector - success 

Without Shepard, Cerberus = FAIL.

Actually you're being disingenuous. You're only counting known sucesses to the player/reader. Seriously you don't buid a multi-billion dollar enterprise on a large string of failures. In all probability they've had tons of sucessess. It's just that not every cell is aware what the other cell is doing.

As for losing people during their sucesses. Sucessess is measured by accomplishing a stated goal. Casualties are a fact of life. However, if your goal is accomplished, then it's a sucess.

Actually, you're struggling to assign them more value than they can take.
Without Shep they're a mess.
You reach "outside the game" to back up Cerberus (and your mom), but by the same token you have to ask the question how many "elite human scientists" can BW summon from their crystal ball (that haven't been enhanced through doctrination, boo-ya! (from the novels))

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 18 juillet 2010 - 02:49 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
I only count 3...

Of-course, you're biased against Cerberus. That a success required deploying Shepard is irrelevent. The only reason Commander Shepard is even alive is because Cerberus brought him back. Cerberus pays him, Cerberus supplies him, Cerberus directs him, and thus he is a Cerberus asset. A Shepard success is a Cerberus success.

I already said that the raid on the Migrant Fleet failed, but to even be capable of attempting such a raid required work on Cerberus' part. They made contact with a quarian exile, earned his trust, and then lured a quarian ship to a secluded location and ambushed. They captured a live quarian and through him gained access to the fleet. That's a success.

My POV has nothing to do with any of this. Cerberus wanated Saracino at the head of Terra Firma and they succeeded. If Cerberus accomplishes its goals then that's a success.

I also didn't mention that Cerberus constructed another, bigger, more powerful Normandy. Building a stealth frigate is no small feat.

Sure, like I said assassination si what Cerberus is actually good at - the "blunt object" operations. Giving them research to do is like giving a baby access to a switch which says: "don't press, nuclear explosion likely".

Cerberus = "very good blunt object motor control, brains not so well wired"

Same with "kidnapping" a quarian on his pilgramage (really? does it even rate a mention?) - huge success! But that's all they're good at: crude objects operations..

[Sajuro]

mrsph wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

the one thing i have learned about cerberus is that the way to defeat them is to do nothing .. eventually they will end up destroying themselves

Giving them the base is the logical choice then.

No, because they'll destroy themselves but the problem is how many other lives they will destroy.

And why do people insist that we judge Cerberus by operations that are not even mentioned? When you are deciding to put your hard earned money or trust into someone, you do it by the successes and failures you know about not the 'successes' you never heard of.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Shand, you weren't about to say: "therefore, Cerberus must be doing a good job because they still have financiers" were you?

If they were doing a lousy job nobody would want to waste so much money on them.

TIM went to the Alliance and they were deemed too big to fail.

Modifié par Sajuro, 18 juillet 2010 - 04:46 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Sadly armies who over rely on tech suffer against ingenious solutions.



The Germans thought they were invincible with their Tiger tanks and Luftwaffe, but the Russians used very dirty tactics on them that worked. Molatov cocktails costing mere pennies knocked out supposed invincible tanks, while their airforce lost to peasent famers who used clever tactics to draw them in AA or waiting ambushes.



Many foes were considered unstoppable in the past Rome, Persia, or Japan at one time, yet clever tactics and innovation have brought the greatest of foes down. While the reapers are powerful Soverigen died to an un-upgraded fleet, and the Collector ship was blasted by a ship running on Asari, Turian, Alliance, and black market parts for the most part.



Before people declare that the Reapers are invincible unless we use their tech, they should remeber that many foes were considered invincible at many times but new tactics, clever thinking, and courage have won the day.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

So Cerberus is funded by the Alliance now?

but then they went rogue.