302 réponses à ce sujet

[Larryboy_Dragon]

I'm a dedicated 360 player who bailed out of pc gaming due to ballooning costs of hardware, and I settled on Xbox because at the time it had the greater percentage of deep pc-style experiences (KotOR, Morrowind, etc). 
Considering that Dragon Age outsold Mass Effect, I had assumed that we would see a DA2 that brought more of the strategic elements to the console now that the franchise is a proven success.


Instead, it seems that the pc enthusiasts claims that console gamers are dumb and can't handle a proper RPG has been taken seriously:
http://kotaku.com/55...fects-footsteps


Another change - and this might be the biggest - is that only the PC version will retain Origins' "strategic combat". The console versions will feature a new combat system, one BioWare says plays to the strength of the control pad. "Rather than try to mimic the PC experience on consoles", the GI report states, "Dragon Age II has a battle system more tailored to the strengths of the PS3 and 360."



I hope this doesn't mean action based. I hope you recognise that there are console players looking for deep, strategic RPG combat. Most of all, I hope that you recognise that on consoles the action RPG genre is over-saturated (Oblivion, ME, Fallout, Divinity 2, Risen, Sacred 2, Two Worlds and rpg/fps hybrids), and the beat-em-up genre is worse.



I figured that we got a watered down DA because our version was an outsourced afterthought, and hoped that DA2 would give us the complete experience. Disheartening that we are obviously still seen as 2nd class. More disheartening that the Fallout FPS is the closest thing to a traditional RPG that I have to look forward to.

Modifié par Larryboy_Dragon, 13 juillet 2010 - 10:31 .

[Tirigon]

I wouldn´t worry too much yet. It´s very vague WHAT exactly the change will be.



On another note, I don´t understand your concerns anyways. I prefer a good hack´n´slash combat over the one in DAO, and if I ignore my first comment and jump to far-fetched conclusions I´m almost sad I´m a PC- and not a console gamer.

[Noobius_Maximo]

Wait for more info before jumping to conclusions, mmkay?

[Narreneth]

I think you should really withhold judgment until the game releases. It seems like a lot of people are ****ing about things because "they aren't the same." The console market is a larger audience than the PC market when it comes to selling games and making a system that works better for consoles is not a bad move. The game can be just as fulfilling and deep and still work well on a controller. One of the things that detracted from the experience for me in DA:O was only being able to have 6 abilities hotkeyed at any one time. I am interested to see what the new system ends up being.

Also, Oblivion was made with PC gamers in mind primarily.  Having "action" style combat does not automatically make something a "console game."

Modifié par Narreneth, 13 juillet 2010 - 10:44 .

[Gambient]

Noobius_Maximo wrote...

Wait for more info before jumping to conclusions, mmkay?

[Larryboy_Dragon]

Tirigon wrote...

I wouldn´t worry too much yet. It´s very vague WHAT exactly the change will be.

True, which is why I used a lot of "I Hopes". But that the combat system is different, rather then just controls, is a worry. 

On another note, I don´t understand your concerns anyways. I prefer a good hack´n´slash combat over the one in DAO, and if I ignore my first comment and jump to far-fetched conclusions I´m almost sad I´m a PC- and not a console gamer.

I want the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate... I'm already ignoring DMC4, Dante, Bayonetta and all the action RPGs listed before. There are no other games with DA:O's style out there.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

Narreneth wrote...

The game can be just as fulfilling and deep and still work well on a controller.

Did you miss I'm a console gamer? You're preaching to the choir.

Narreneth wrote...

Also, Oblivion was made with PC gamers in mind primarily.  Having "action" style combat does not automatically make something a "console game."

Sweet Jesus, I hope it's nothing like Oblivion. 

Modifié par Larryboy_Dragon, 13 juillet 2010 - 10:55 .

[dan107]

Damn, I'd rather have action based combat in the PC version as well. How much longer are we going to have to put up with these crappy outdated pen-and-paper mechanics (or "traditional RPG systems") in order to enjoy a good story in a game?

Modifié par dan107, 13 juillet 2010 - 10:55 .

[Narreneth]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

The game can be just as fulfilling and deep and still work well on a controller.

Did you miss I'm a console gamer? You're preaching to the choir.

Narreneth wrote...

Also, Oblivion was made with PC gamers in mind primarily.  Having "action" style combat does not automatically make something a "console game."

Sweet Jesus, I hope it's nothing like Oblivion. 

It wouldn't work with a party, so it won't be.

That said Oblivion is one of my favorite games.  Bethesda and BioWare are my lovers.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

dan107 wrote...

Damn, I'd rather have action based combat in the PC version as well. How much longer are we going to have to put up with these crappy outdated pen-and-paper mechanics (or "traditional RPG systems") in order to enjoy a good story in a game?

[jableskage]

**** the consoles, you **** every game

[Narreneth]

jableskage wrote...

**** the consoles, you **** every game

Shut the **** up.

[Lord Gremlin]

I'm a dedicated PS3 player and I share your fears, Larryboy_Dragon. However, we don't yet know what was changed. For example, in case of DAO and it's add-ons PC version have top-down view, a-la RTS, while console versions don't. Top-down view is a cheat in this game, IMO, when you can order every companion where to go 90% of boss battles become pathetically easy. I imagine for DA2 console version will have one more type of control, like on PC you can switch between third person and top-down, on consoles you'll be able to switch between third person and something else.

Now that you mention Sacred 2 I remember that it's a beautiful game on consoles. It's in native 1080p on PS3. And DAO actually looks bad. I could say that PS3 version looks better than 360 (seen them both - it occurred to me that 360 version runs a bit faster, at a cost of nerfed graphics), though it doesn't really matter since both console versions look generally bad. This worries me.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

Narreneth wrote...
It wouldn't work with a party, so it won't be.

Jade Empire.

That said Oblivion is one of my favorite games.  Bethesda and BioWare are my lovers.

Morrowind - good.
Oblivion - bad
Fallout - great.

Bethesda are a little hit'n miss. Likeing their attempts to add character. Keen to see what JE does with Fallout:NV.

[JedTed]

Just because a game is action oriented doesn't mean there isn't some level of strategy involved. In ME2 you can't just pump bullets into enemies untill their dead, this is especially true on harder difficulties.

[DPB]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Top-down view is a cheat in this game, IMO, when you can order every companion where to go 90% of boss battles become pathetically easy.

That's a really silly statement - how can it be a cheat when that's how it was originally designed? Besides, the increased level of control is balanced by having a higher difficulty level relative to the console versions.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

I'm a dedicated PS3 player and I share your fears, Larryboy_Dragon. However, we don't yet know what was changed. For example, in case of DAO and it's add-ons PC version have top-down view, a-la RTS, while console versions don't. Top-down view is a cheat in this game, IMO, when you can order every companion where to go 90% of boss battles become pathetically easy. I imagine for DA2 console version will have one more type of control, like on PC you can switch between third person and top-down, on consoles you'll be able to switch between third person and something else.

The topic is a question. And I say I hope it's not action based, not that it is.
Just the fact that the PC gets one verson and we get another is cause for questioning.

TBH, I'd love the Baldurs Gate view.

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Now that you mention Sacred 2 I remember that it's a beautiful game on consoles.

Actually a neat action RPG. Great way to kill time between Fallouts, MEs and DOs.

[JedTed]

werwulf222 wrote...

How hard would it have been for them to include some USB ports in their machines while they were being manufactured? At least then console gamers would have had some kind of upgrade path.

FYI, they DO have USB ports but you can't just hook up a keyboard to it.

It's my opinion however that any game that you play with a keyboard/mouse can be modified to work with a with a gamepad(except RTS games).

[Larryboy_Dragon]

werwulf222 wrote...

I feel sorry for console gamers and figure they got a raw deal from console manufacturers.

No mods, no way to add a keyboard, joystick mouse etc.

How hard would it have been for them to include some USB ports in their machines while they were being manufactured? At least then console gamers would have had some kind of upgrade path.

 

Consoles have USB, but I prefer the controller (worked with pcs for 20 years, keyboards give me RSI).

But the lack of user-mods does suck.

[orpheus333]

Just because Bioware are re-working the combat systems for console you shouldn't jump the gun to early. It will still be based on the same core engine i would wager which means the same basic systems will be in play.



The console port was criticized for its control systems, especially in combat and Bioware seem to be doing there best to improve the experience for all platforms in the sequel.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

JedTed wrote...

werwulf222 wrote...

How hard would it have been for them to include some USB ports in their machines while they were being manufactured? At least then console gamers would have had some kind of upgrade path.

FYI, they DO have USB ports but you can't just hook up a keyboard to it.

Some PS3 games allow keyboard and mouse.
PSU for 360 does keyboard.

It's my opinion however that any game that you play with a keyboard/mouse can be modified to work with a with a gamepad(except RTS games).

Halo Wars war okay

[Larryboy_Dragon]

JedTed wrote...

Just because a game is action oriented doesn't mean there isn't some level of strategy involved. In ME2 you can't just pump bullets into enemies untill their dead, this is especially true on harder difficulties.

Having some level of strategy isn't the same as being a strategic game.


I like ME (1 more then 2), but I want both genres to thrive.

[rafoquinha]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

I hope this doesn't mean action based. I hope you recognise that there are console players looking for deep, strategic RPG combat. Most of all, I hope that you recognise that on consoles the action RPG genre is over-saturated (Oblivion, ME, Fallout, Divinity 2, Risen, Sacred 2, Two Worlds and rpg/fps hybrids), and the beat-em-up genre is worse.

Over-saturated with terrible games. The only good games of this list you mentioned are Oblivion and Sacred 2.

Modifié par rafoquinha, 13 juillet 2010 - 11:29 .

[Kinthalis ThornBlade]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

I'm a dedicated 360 player who bailed out of pc gaming due to ballooning costs of hardware,

When did you leave PC gaming then? the 90's?

PC hardware is cheap. Most people only need a $100 video card to play games at higher resolution and better graphics detail than any console. And even those that want to buy an entirely new modern gaming PC rig, can do so for under $600 (And it's not just a glorified video game box ). You're way out of the game if you still think PC gaming is costly.

Hell, I own a very high end gaming PC (hooked up to a 50" HDTV), but I've more than made up the cost on the money I've saved on games thanks to sales on Steam, direct 2 drive and impulse. I've never owned so may games as I do today, and on the cheap.

As for the more actiony, dumbed down gaming, what exactly do you expect?

Why would consoles seek to mimic PC gaming? They are limited by a controller and by a much more casual user base.

Why are you so surprised by this?

Here's a revelation for you:

You want PC gaming? Game on your PC. 

Modifié par Kinthalis ThornBlade, 13 juillet 2010 - 11:35 .