100 réponses à ce sujet

[TheSeeker2654]

I realize that some amount of changes and updates are inevitable. But please bioware, please dont take out all the great character customizations and skills, spells, passive abilities, armor, weapons and tweaks that made the first game great. Please dont do what you did to ME2. This is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate, and when you say you are removing strategic combat for teh console versions is really bugs me.

I am all for changing the combat a bit to fit better on the consoles. But that doesnt mean that you need to take all the micro management of characters out. Its an RPG, and sorry to say, that is a big part of the rpg genre. Let the shooters play the multitude of FPS's that come out each year. Please just make this the best RPG that you can and not worry so much about catering to the casual market.

Please leave the in depth customizations and also, please let us keep controll over our party. As the AI routines just dont cut it. Im sorry, I like being able to control what my party is using in combat. I really dont know what else I can do to let you know how dissapointed I am in the direction you are taking your RPG's so I created this thread that I hope others that share my opinions can come by and express just how much we love your previous RPG's without the rpg-lite treatment you seem to give all your sequels. I mean you do realize you made a multi platinum selling game by sticking to the classic rpg elements?

So everyone come by and let Bioware know what we think of the ME2 style changes being implemented in DA2.

Modifié par TheSeeker2654, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:47 .

[Heimdall]

Aren't there enough threads about this?

[TheSeeker2654]

Maiq the Liar wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

 This is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate, and when you say you are removing strategic combat for teh console versions is really bugs me.

I am all for changing the combat a bit to fit better on the consoles.
But that doesnt mean that you need to take all the micro management of characters out. Its an RPG, and sorry to say, that is a big part of the rpg genre.
Please just make this the best RPG that you can and not worry so much about catering to the casual market.

Sorry, but the casual market aint the ones that are buying every single console and many many games a year. Its us, the real gamers.

So, console gamers are the real gamers? If you aren't happy about the changes to the combat for consoles, get it for PC, instead of claiming that the PC isn't the platform of  a "real gamer."

Sorry, I think you might have misinterpreted the statement. I didnt mean PC wasnt the platform of real gamers. I was saying that instead of trying to target an audience that buys very few games (casual market) why not try an please the people who buy more games (hardcore market).

[Lord_Saulot]

DA:O was targeted to multiple markets, including the "casual" one, through the use of different difficulty levels. It was a pretty popular game.



Anyway, Bioware put a lot of work into that game. They are, to be honest, much more invested emotionally and financially in the first Dragon Age and in making DA2 a similar game. So, there isn't really much reason to worry that they will widely change the format, though they will certainly try to make developments and push some boundaries.

[Rogue Unit]

The "real" gamer is the one that shuts up and play the video game. Not the ones that argue about which platform is best.

[BallaZs]

I dunno why are ppl so desperate about DA2.

I like it so far. Voice acting, and only human character doesnt mean that BioWare is trying to make ME with swords.

Have faith in them.

[Ecael]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

I realize that you are just about making money.

Do you expect the BioWare developers to take you seriously after beginning your post with that sentence?

[epoch_]

The PC players are considerably more "hardcore". They liked the old system and the game sold best for the PC. The game didn't do as well on the consoles, so now they need to change the gameplay on the consoles so that its more accessible for the masses.



What is so hard about this?

[Arthur Cousland]

I'm just hoping that they changes that they plan for the combat for consoles isn't too action based. I'm open minded if the combat "works better" with a controller, but I never really thought that combat was such a problem that needed an overhaul in the first place. A better system for hotkey-ing abilities and being able to position allies during combat like in the pc version is all that I'd suggest. I don't want Dragon Age to lose its tactical side just to fit better with a controller, and become a hack and slash.

[IckyLicks]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

I realize that you are just about making money. I realize that some amount of changes and updates are inevitable. But please bioware, please dont take out all the great character customizations and skills, spells, passive abilities, armor, weapons and tweaks that made the first game great. Please dont do what you did to ME2. This is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate, and when you say you are removing strategic combat for teh console versions is really bugs me.

I am all for changing the combat a bit to fit better on the consoles. But that doesnt mean that you need to take all the micro management of characters out. Its an RPG, and sorry to say, that is a big part of the rpg genre. Let the shooters play the multitude of FPS's that come out each year. Please just make this the best RPG that you can and not worry so much about catering to the casual market. Sorry, but the casual market aint the ones that are buying every single console and many many games a year. Its us, the real gamers.

Please leave the in depth customizations and also, please let us keep controll over our party. As the AI routines just dont cut it. Im sorry, I like being able to control what my party is using in combat. I really dont know what else I can do to let you know how dissapointed I am in the direction you are taking your RPG's so I created this thread that I hope others that share my opinions can come by and express just how much we love your previous RPG's without the rpg-lite treatment you seem to give all your sequels. I mean you do realize you made a multi platinum selling game by sticking to the classic rpg elements?

So everyone come by and let Bioware know what we think of the ME2 style changes being implemented in DA2.

I think you misunderstood whatever publication you've read (I'm assuming the GI issue with DA2 info).  They're not taking out the strategy part out of the console port but only refining it to fit the controller.  I have a PS3 and the biggest problem with the console part of DA:O was having to control my party members.  It was horrible compared with the PC version because with the PC version the camera allows for Top View control and combined with the mouse and keyboard it allowed for more control over party members and their abilities.

I'm not sure where you got "please bioware, please dont take out all the great character
customizations and skills, spells, passive abilities, armor, weapons and
tweaks that made the first game great."  I mean, they never said they would eliminate any of the things you mentioned, except for race. They're even going to port your character progression into DA2, not your character just the decisions that effected the world.

The great part is they are expanding the ability-to-ability reactions.  For example,  If a warrior uses Sunder Armor and the rogue back stabs, the Sunder Armor will cause the backstab to have extra damage.  Not only that, they are including finishing moves for spells!!!  The example they gave was allowing the enemy to explode if they caught in the Crushing Prison spell. 

I think in many ways Bioware games are moving forward in creativity but moving in an area that some of us are not comfortable with ( a more cinematic experience).  They even mentioned in the magazine that the old way of telling stories (text based) is getting old and they have to move on.

[Khayness]

I thought the hardcore gamer is the one who invests a lot of time into one product rather than the ones rushing through the content, missing all the details, leaving the developers unappreciated for their work.

The modding community will thrive for years on, keeping the game alive for decades. Those casual good for nothing lot!

[Heimdall]

Why is there a knee jerk reaction to scream "Oh noes! their catering to casual gamers!" everytime Bioware makes a sequel recently? I seriously doubt it's going o suddenly start playing like fable. I played it on console, I enjoyed it on console. I don't think they will do anything so drastic to lose any resemblence to the first game.

[Ecael]

epoch_ wrote...

The PC players are considerably more "hardcore". They liked the old system and the game sold best for the PC. The game didn't do as well on the consoles, so now they need to change the gameplay on the consoles so that its more accessible for the masses.

What is so hard about this?

I think the decision to change the gameplay for consoles was made before Dragon Age: Origins was even released - specifically, while they were trying to port the game over to the consoles.

If there's anything Electronic Arts is "guilty" of, it's trying to port all their games to every single platform possible. Yet if it weren't for that, Mass Effect would have remained a console-exclusive game instead of being ported to the PC, and Dragon Age: Origins would have remained a PC-exclusive game.

It's beneficial to everyone in the long run, as it introduces console gamers to RPGs (other than the next Final Fantasy), and it prevents BioWare from having to make console-only games.

That's why they can retain the PC gameplay while coming up with something less clumsy for a console controller.

Modifié par Ecael, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:22 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Ecael wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

I realize that you are just about making money.

Do you expect the BioWare developers to take you seriously after beginning your post with that sentence?

No one takes these threads seriously to begin with, sans the ones that write them.

[TheSeeker2654]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why is there a knee jerk reaction to scream "Oh noes! their catering to casual gamers!" everytime Bioware makes a sequel recently? I seriously doubt it's going o suddenly start playing like fable. I played it on console, I enjoyed it on console. I don't think they will do anything so drastic to lose any resemblence to the first game.

Why is it so hard to believe that they would do this? They did it with ME2. Totally killed any character progression and leveling micromanagement. I LIKE that about RPG's. I Just dont want to see that happen again with DA.

And please. Lets try and look past my ill conceived statements about casuall and hardcore markets and stick to the topic of keeping DA2 from going the route of ME2.

If they are going to keep the skills and spells and all that character customization and just change the combat engine to fit a controller, Great. Thats fine with me. But I dont want to see it "streamlined" for all those who dont like micromanagement. Here's an idea. If you dont like micromanagement then play a shooter. Because RPG's might not be your thing.

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Ecael wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

I realize that you are just about making money.

Do you expect the BioWare developers to take you seriously after beginning your post with that sentence?

No one takes these threads seriously to begin with, sans the ones that write them.

So you disagree that EA's main focus is making money? I mean, in the end that IS why they make games. The problem is that they dont know when to say enough. I mean. DA was a multi platinum selling game that probably made them a good amount of money. Yet they still think they need to water it down, streamline it and make sure every single gamer out there likes their game. But not every gamer is goign to like every game. And if you try to make a game that caters to such a broad audience. then you really do lose something in that conversion. I guess I am alone in those feelings.

Modifié par TheSeeker2654, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:34 .

[ShadyKat]

Plz devs just make a sticky so all this complaining can go in to one thread.

[Ecael]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Ecael wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

I realize that you are just about making money.

Do you expect the BioWare developers to take you seriously after beginning your post with that sentence?

No one takes these threads seriously to begin with, sans the ones that write them.

Considering the forum activity from David Gaider, Mike Laidlaw and Mary Kirby, I'd say they do take some posts into account.

However, to start a thread with "Hey guys, I know you're just in it for the money and not because you actually like writing or gaming, but..." doesn't seem to be the best way to get them to listen.

[Leafs43]

DAO was for casuals.



You could play an hour at a time and end up with the same rewards as a hardcore player.

[Lord_Saulot]

Ecael wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Ecael wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

I realize that you are just about making money.

Do you expect the BioWare developers to take you seriously after beginning your post with that sentence?

No one takes these threads seriously to begin with, sans the ones that write them.

Considering the forum activity from David Gaider, Mike Laidlaw and Mary Kirby, I'd say they do take some posts into account.

However, to start a thread with "Hey guys, I know you're just in it for the money and not because you actually like writing or gaming, but..." doesn't seem to be the best way to get them to listen.

Yeah, and its hard to see where the creative passion behind Thedas would have come from if they were "just in it for the money."  Of course they want money, and this is their job, but they are clearly people doing something that they are passionate about as well.

[TheSeeker2654]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why is there a knee jerk reaction to scream "Oh noes! their catering to casual gamers!" everytime Bioware makes a sequel recently? I seriously doubt it's going o suddenly start playing like fable. I played it on console, I enjoyed it on console. I don't think they will do anything so drastic to lose any resemblence to the first game.

Probably because going "casual" usually means the death of what I personally like about RPG's. That is the micromanagement of characters and all that.

[Ecael]

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why is there a knee jerk reaction to scream "Oh noes! their catering to casual gamers!" everytime Bioware makes a sequel recently? I seriously doubt it's going o suddenly start playing like fable. I played it on console, I enjoyed it on console. I don't think they will do anything so drastic to lose any resemblence to the first game.

Probably because going "casual" usually means the death of what I personally like about RPG's. That is the micromanagement of characters and all that.

If you want to micromanage characters, you could always just play an RTS like Starcraft.

People keep throwing the word "casual" around as if it's some kind of faceless entity that hovers around absorbing specific video games, yet they fail to understand that some changes are made to improve the game for all players.

Modifié par Ecael, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:41 .

[TheSeeker2654]

IckyLicks wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote... I realize that you are just about making money. I realize that some amount of changes and updates are inevitable. But please bioware, please dont take out all the great character customizations and skills, spells, passive abilities, armor, weapons and tweaks that made the first game great. Please dont do what you did to ME2. This is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate, and when you say you are removing strategic combat for teh console versions is really bugs me. I am all for changing the combat a bit to fit better on the consoles. But that doesnt mean that you need to take all the micro management of characters out. Its an RPG, and sorry to say, that is a big part of the rpg genre. Let the shooters play the multitude of FPS's that come out each year. Please just make this the best RPG that you can and not worry so much about catering to the casual market. Sorry, but the casual market aint the ones that are buying every single console and many many games a year. Its us, the real gamers. Please leave the in depth customizations and also, please let us keep controll over our party. As the AI routines just dont cut it. Im sorry, I like being able to control what my party is using in combat. I really dont know what else I can do to let you know how dissapointed I am in the direction you are taking your RPG's so I created this thread that I hope others that share my opinions can come by and express just how much we love your previous RPG's without the rpg-lite treatment you seem to give all your sequels. I mean you do realize you made a multi platinum selling game by sticking to the classic rpg elements? So everyone come by and let Bioware know what we think of the ME2 style changes being implemented in DA2.

I think you misunderstood whatever publication you've read (I'm assuming the GI issue with DA2 info).  They're not taking out the strategy part out of the console port but only refining it to fit the controller.  I have a PS3 and the biggest problem with the console part of DA:O was having to control my party members.  It was horrible compared with the PC version because with the PC version the camera allows for Top View control and combined with the mouse and keyboard it allowed for more control over party members and their abilities. I'm not sure where you got "please bioware, please dont take out all the great character customizations and skills, spells, passive abilities, armor, weapons and tweaks that made the first game great."  I mean, they never said they would eliminate any of the things you mentioned, except for race. They're even going to port your character progression into DA2, not your character just the decisions that effected the world. The great part is they are expanding the ability-to-ability reactions.  For example,  If a warrior uses Sunder Armor and the rogue back stabs, the Sunder Armor will cause the backstab to have extra damage.  Not only that, they are including finishing moves for spells!!!  The example they gave was allowing the enemy to explode if they caught in the Crushing Prison spell.  I think in many ways Bioware games are moving forward in creativity but moving in an area that some of us are not comfortable with ( a more cinematic experience).  They even mentioned in the magazine that the old way of telling stories (text based) is getting old and they have to move on.

 
Ok now this sounds cool. Not sure where you got that info, but it sounds great! And if they are truly keeping all the other character stuff then... I just get this flash of another Mass Effect fiasco, Because sorry. But they totally gimped character progression and leveling in ME2. I just dont want it to end up like that. And I figured their official boards was the best place for my opinion to actually get noticed. I mean, we as gamers have so little control over the games we love as it is...

Ecael wrote...

TheSeeker2654 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Why is there a knee jerk reaction to scream "Oh noes! their catering to casual gamers!" everytime Bioware makes a sequel recently? I seriously doubt it's going o suddenly start playing like fable. I played it on console, I enjoyed it on console. I don't think they will do anything so drastic to lose any resemblence to the first game.

Probably because going "casual" usually means the death of what I personally like about RPG's. That is the micromanagement of characters and all that.

If you want to micromanage characters, you could always just play an RTS like Starcraft.

People keep throwing the word "casual" around as if it's some kind of faceless entity that hovers around absorbing specific video games, yet they fail to understand that some changes are made to improve the game for all players.

and when I say micromanagement I mean having access to tons of abililties skill and spells, armor and weapons to confront any situation in a way that I want to tackle it. Or having many different ways to combat any given situation.

Modifié par TheSeeker2654, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:44 .