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Best RPG series ever made by BioWare?


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#51
HoonDing

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Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Thirdly, powerwise the spell casters (not the bad guys) are at the top of the pyramid. Korgan may be able to put Mazzy down, but if Minsc is dressed properly, then Korgan's axes will only deal 15% damage. And that's just a level one cleric spell. Haer'Dalis (with no access to spells above level 6) won't take any damage at all from Korgan.

Minsc -> you mean Hardiness & Armor of faith?
And if Korgan were smart, he'd just switch between normal & magical weapons. :wizard:

#52
Cypher0020

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LOL I hope its good... my box set just shipped and should be here next week



Should I play BG2 over BG1?

#53
Irrbloss

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Cypher0020 wrote...

Should I play BG2 over BG1?

I would suggest you use either EasyTutu or BGT with the BG1 NPC mod and play BG1 before BG2.

#54
Guest_Acharnae_*

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Definitely BG1 first...

Don't be put off by the... "ancienticity" of the game... BG2 is almost another world...

Think of BG1 as visiting an old classic era with all its charms :)

Then BG2 will reward you more because you'll know many more things about the plot and of course you'll have the feeling of continuation.

#55
Humanoid_Taifun

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virumor wrote...
Minsc -> you mean Hardiness & Armor of faith?
And if Korgan were smart, he'd just switch between normal & magical weapons. :wizard:

Hardiness, Armor of Faith, Defender of Easthaven gives Minsc 85% against physical damage, no matter if it's a magical weapon or not, so switching weapons would not really do much good. The only thing that still does full damage (well, 75%) is elemental damage. And sure, there are weapons that deal such damage, but it's usually very low when compared to the normal weapon damage (an exception being FoA+5). And since very few enemies in the game have such weapons in the vanilla game, the 85% resistance are a very dependable bonus - especially when combined with the Cloak of Mirroring.

#56
PicklePepperPiper

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G_Admiral_Thrawn wrote...

NWN had the potential to be so good, but somehow it just didn't live up to it's promise. NWN 2 was better, but it still suffered some of the same flaws. I get the feel that the devs were stung over criticism over the "power-gaminess" of BG2 and deliberately toned NWN down. No Cloaks, Staves, or Shields of Cheese, one metamagic feat per spell, things like that.


All these things have been remedied somewhat by the NWN community, and Bioware patches. I find NWN's incredible capacity for customisation (the toolset, the flexibility of character development) to be refreshing from BG's comparative linear gameplay - not to say that BG is linear, it certainly is one of the more open-ended games I keep coming back to.

Anyway, I'm not here to push the NWN wagon :?

And the simple fact that there will never be another Jon Irenicus makes BG the superior game :wizard:

-PPP

#57
Ponce de Leon

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A true villain with his past, reasons, sentiments... unlike mr. Demon A. from a certain Dragon Age which is incredibly dull as final boss.

#58
BlackyBlack

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I get the feeling most of you love it mostly 'cos of nostalgia since it was your first RPG. I really doubt anyone that played KOTOR, ME or DAO first would say BG is better

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 14 juillet 2010 - 10:15 .


#59
Ponce de Leon

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Nope, I really think Baldur's Gate is better than any other BioWare game.

KotOR : well, I hate Star Wars to begin with. How can I "like" a game in its universe... that's unknown.

Mass Effect : Nice game... but I don't really like space thingies...

Dragon Age : who are we kidding, its base is the same like Mass Effects' : Some race without "mind" follows the return of the "gods". You are chosen as an elite warrior throughout the whole game. You must take down a rogue ex-hero who turned to the bad side. You are at the end taken to the largest city in the game and the final battle takes place on a tower...



is this really better than BG? I don't think so.

#60
Seagloom

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Nostalgia is a tricky concept. Does nostalgia count if you still play the game and have seen it recently? There is no other BioWare game that brought so many elements together the way the Baldur's Gate series did. I wouldn't even consider Mass Effect in the same league. Dragon Age: Origins and Knights of the Old Republic do top it in areas--namely player interaction with the characters. DAO does this particularly well. That said, all of BioWare's latter games had a serious flaw in some area that kept them from achieving the same level of quality.

Modifié par Seagloom, 14 juillet 2010 - 10:42 .


#61
Khayness

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BlackyBlack wrote...

I get the feeling most of you love it mostly 'cos of nostalgia since it was your first RPG. I really doubt anyone that played KOTOR, ME or DAO first would say BG is better


I've had BG2 when I couldn't even speak English properly (mainly played oldschool C64 games with walkthrough books) so I haven't finished it and remained forgotten for a long time.

I've finished KotOR and ME before BG, but I'm replaying it every year for sure.

#62
Guest_Acharnae_*

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Well I've been cut off from the gaming scene for some years now. But when I read that there was another RPG game out from Bioware which claimed was the successor of BG, I checked with concern my PC specs, realized it could easily handle it and the very next day I went out and bought DAO and Awakenings.
It is a good game. There's no question about it.
But BG simply combined a great variety of things in their ideal proportion.
It was a great work of art, as someone said, and the story was truely powerful. Like a very well written book.
I've played RPGs before that and after. Still none, in my opinion, has managed to capture the gist of so many things as BG did.

Modifié par Acharnae, 14 juillet 2010 - 10:58 .


#63
corey_russell

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I think one of the keys of Baldur's Gate Success is that both BG 1 & BG 2 had the right level of complexity. If a game is too simple, people tire of it quickly. If a game is too complex, people get frustrated and quit. If a game has the perfect level of complexity, people play it over & over.

#64
Humanoid_Taifun

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Yes the complexity is probably a major part of it. But (and mostly because of the complexity) it is also aimed at a different playstyle, not really allowing for casual hopping into the world to cut down a couple of mobs, and then returning to the real world to do whatever you have to do.

Combat is as important as in ME or in DA:O but the game doesn't focus (only) on your ability to slaughter stuff - if you neglect the dialogue you will soon end up in a dead end (which in modern games is nearly unthinkable with their streamlined corridors and the instant transportation back once you've reached the primary MO).

In the first RPGs on the market you really had to have pen & paper at the ready to write down everything that you'd found out so far. Going back to a months old savegame without these notes was difficult even if you knew the game. BG has a very useful diary function and you can usually draw all important information from there in a matter of seconds; but it still feels awkward to start up an old save game.

[deleted an overly long wall of text with dozens of explanatory brackets and no reader-friendliness because you wouldn't have read it anyway and also because it wasn't necessarily entirely coherent]

I believe that this awkwardness marks a very important point of a good RPG for the simple reason that important information should be more than your current position in a dungeon.

[deleted the best argument I had, simply because the sheer magnificence of it's phrasing, the refined perfection that would have blown away Lewis Carroll (were he still alive), could have unfairly manipulated your defenseless minds into adapting my way of thinking]

#65
Khayness

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BG1's diary was bloody chaotic. You pretty much had to do a subquest right away, unless you wanted to read a lot to find out what the hell you were supposed to be doing.

#66
BomimoDK

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Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Yes the complexity is probably a major part of it. But (and mostly because of the complexity) it is also aimed at a different playstyle, not really allowing for casual hopping into the world to cut down a couple of mobs, and then returning to the real world to do whatever you have to do.
Combat is as important as in ME or in DA:O but the game doesn't focus (only) on your ability to slaughter stuff - if you neglect the dialogue you will soon end up in a dead end (which in modern games is nearly unthinkable with their streamlined corridors and the instant transportation back once you've reached the primary MO).
In the first RPGs on the market you really had to have pen & paper at the ready to write down everything that you'd found out so far. Going back to a months old savegame without these notes was difficult even if you knew the game. BG has a very useful diary function and you can usually draw all important information from there in a matter of seconds; but it still feels awkward to start up an old save game.
[deleted an overly long wall of text with dozens of explanatory brackets and no reader-friendliness because you wouldn't have read it anyway and also because it wasn't necessarily entirely coherent]
I believe that this awkwardness marks a very important point of a good RPG for the simple reason that important information should be more than your current position in a dungeon.
[deleted the best argument I had, simply because the sheer magnificence of it's phrasing, the refined perfection that would have blown away Lewis Carroll (were he still alive), could have unfairly manipulated your defenseless minds into adapting my way of thinking]

Personally, i think that's the major charm when people talk about making a good old RPG. i expected that kind of game, not where it's a mess, but where you actually have to be present to succeed... there are very few games that demand that of you today, and that is why my shelf with BG, Icewind Dale and Fallout is treasured and cuddled like a baby.

Acharnae wrote...

Well I've been cut off from the gaming
scene for some years now. But when I read that there was another RPG
game out from Bioware which claimed was the successor of BG, I checked
with concern my PC specs, realized it could easily handle it and the
very next day I went out and bought DAO and Awakenings.
It is a good
game. There's no question about it.
But BG simply combined a great
variety of things in their ideal proportion.
It was a great work of
art, as someone said, and the story was truely powerful. Like a very
well written book.
I've played RPGs before that and after. Still
none, in my opinion, has managed to capture the gist of so many things
as BG did.

correct. many would say that we put in on a too steep piedestal, but i personally think that this game nailed it spot on. it had all kinds of depths in any direction. some Battles were deep puzzles of magery. some dialogue could get you some special results if done just right. and the two best dungeons ever, Watchers Keep and Durlags tower... little pieces of art came together to make my best gaming experience.

I'm a weird sort though, BG1 is my all time favourite and i especiallt cherish playing through the Werewolf Isle and Durlag's tower. Most BG2 fans i meet never even bothered look at the first and i sigh when they think they've got it all down...

Modifié par BomimoDK, 15 juillet 2010 - 12:35 .


#67
MagickalMia

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BlackyBlack wrote...

I get the feeling most of you love it mostly 'cos of nostalgia since it was your first RPG. I really doubt anyone that played KOTOR, ME or DAO first would say BG is better


I got BG1 long before KOTOR, ME and DAO, but I never played BG2 until now in 2010 and I still consider it a better game... Even if I think KOTOR, ME and DAO are all great games too!

#68
BomimoDK

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dark-lauron wrote...

Nope, I really think Baldur's Gate is better than any other BioWare game.
KotOR : well, I hate Star Wars to begin with. How can I "like" a game in its universe... that's unknown.
Mass Effect : Nice game... but I don't really like space thingies...
Dragon Age : who are we kidding, its base is the same like Mass Effects' : Some race without "mind" follows the return of the "gods". You are chosen as an elite warrior throughout the whole game. You must take down a rogue ex-hero who turned to the bad side. You are at the end taken to the largest city in the game and the final battle takes place on a tower...

is this really better than BG? I don't think so.

Did you even bother looking into what Dragon Age is, because what you described... i never saw in game at all. what plot did you play?

#69
Khayness

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BomimoDK wrote...

]Did you even bother looking into what Dragon Age is, because what you described... i never saw in game at all. what plot did you play?


"Some race without "mind" (Darkspawn) follows the return of the "gods" (Archdemon) You are
chosen as an elite warrior throughout the whole game. (Grey Warden) You must take down
a rogue ex-hero who turned to the bad side. (Loghain) You are at the end taken to
the largest city in the game and the final battle takes place on a
tower... (Fort Drakon in Denerim)"

#70
Cypher0020

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ok......how hard is BG? Like...frustratingly hard...or rip hair out gonna snap the disk hard?? O_o

#71
cipher86

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Cypher0020 wrote...

ok......how hard is BG? Like...frustratingly hard...or rip hair out gonna snap the disk hard?? O_o


BGI is one of the most punishing games I have ever played.  At the beginning, you can't even take down a Wild Dog without risking death of a character because you are so poorly experienced and brutally undergeared.  Not to mention, if you've never done D&D before in your life (which I hadn't), you are going to have a truckload of info to absorb.  It will literally take you HOURS of gameplay before you have an adequate understanding of the concepts and rules of the game, at which point you'll probably want to restart because you messed up in some silly way.

BGII is, in my opinion, the far better game, and the far better experience.  It's less punishing because you aren't a wimp, and a few changes have been made it to make it more newbie-friendly, but still, if you haven't played D&D before, you're going to be 100% lost.  If you're new to BG, I'd go with BGII and the expansion first, and if you like those a lot, then go back to BGI to see how it all started.  BGI has no story details that you'd need to absorb before playing BGII, since it's all revealed within the first 30-45 minutes of BGII.

Better yet, if you're new to BG, go read up on some newbie tips.  Go read the manuals online.  It's a TON of time to invest, but that's the way the games are currently - if you want to stand half a chance, even on easy mode, you need to invest that time.

On topic: I don't know.  Baldur's Gate overall has a better story than anything else Bioware has released, but I find DA:O is far more enjoyable than Baldur's Gate.  Combat is so much more fluent, and although the world/characters may seem fairly shallow when summarized, the way the game sucks you into it is incredible.

If Baldur's Gate received an update to its core mechanics, it could be a contender, but as it is it's a historical marker of why Bioware is what they are today.

Modifié par cipher86, 15 juillet 2010 - 05:23 .


#72
corey_russell

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No. Thanks to the right click view objects you do not need to know D&D to play BG. It will just take more reloads if you don't. When I first played did not know D&D but just did what it suggested which was try different strategies if your first one didn't work and that was enough to make progress.

#73
Humanoid_Taifun

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Khayness wrote...
"Some race without "mind" (Darkspawn) follows the return of the "gods" (Archdemon) You are
chosen as an elite warrior throughout the whole game. (Grey Warden) You must take down
a rogue ex-hero who turned to the bad side. (Loghain) You are at the end taken to
the largest city in the game and the final battle takes place on a
tower... (Fort Drakon in Denerim)"

It's still an unfair comparison and also taking nothing into account that the games might have going for them.

#74
Moganza

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I have to agree that some of Bioware's character designs are starting to get a little more boring. I mean the only one who i thought looked unique in DA:O was Morrigan mostly because of her clothes. Hmm, maybe I've been playing too many JRPGs.

#75
Ponce de Leon

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Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Khayness wrote...
"Some race without "mind" (Darkspawn) follows the return of the "gods" (Archdemon) You are
chosen as an elite warrior throughout the whole game. (Grey Warden) You must take down
a rogue ex-hero who turned to the bad side. (Loghain) You are at the end taken to
the largest city in the game and the final battle takes place on a
tower... (Fort Drakon in Denerim)"

It's still an unfair comparison and also taking nothing into account that the games might have going for them.

That's why I said BASE not whole game. 
Don't tell me you find some similarities in Dragon Age and Mass Effect :
Geth/Darkspawn (which incredibly, in the sequel (awakening, ME2) we find out there is another faction which doesn't follow the gods (Archdemons/Reapers) ). 

We have the Grey Wardens/Spectres who are there as heroes

We have the traitor, Loghain/Saren which are the antagonists (although it is true Saren follows the Reaper, while Loghain doesn't follow  the Darkspawn).

Last battle (Fort Drakon/Citadel Tower) gives us also a chance to redeem the traitors (Loghain's Sacrifice/Saren's Suicide). 

Games, story and characters are completely different. The base of some things is the same though.