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[G_Admiral_Thrawn]

Bubba McThudd wrote...

BG was the granddad of the RPGs, and in many ways has never been equalled.

"Go for the eyes Boo!"

Actually, it has been equaled. just not by anything recently. It's ONLY equal is Planescape:Torment.

[Aratoeldar]

G_Admiral_Thrawn wrote...

Bubba McThudd wrote...

BG was the granddad of the RPGs, and in many ways has never been equalled.

"Go for the eyes Boo!"

Actually, it has been equaled. just not by anything recently. It's ONLY equal is Planescape:Torment.

Which was made by Black Isle Studios, the forrunner of Obsidian.

While I was in joiner high school, D&D came out. So I played PnP D&D through to the 2nd edition. I love BG for it's low level magic and the ability to explore just like in the PnP game.

[Evil Lantier]

BG1 was (is) fantastic.  I really liked the open feel to the game.  There were tons of people to talk to and lots of area to explore and you didn't have to kill everything you meet--i.e., there were plenty of encounters that were just dialog:  chickenboy, crazy seer lady, girl protected by angel the cat, etc.  It made the world feel more complete to me.

BG2 was a step up in tactical challenge/diversity.  Level 8 to 16 is a great place to be.  You can now survive getting chomped on by the baddies (for at least a round or two) and now you have all kinds of cool toys to play with (Spell Immunity, Improved Haste, dual wieldin', Staff o' the Magi, and the Fury, muahahahaha! ).

I'm not sure if IWD/IWD2 qualifies are part of this group we're comparing, but for what it is worth, I don't think either was as good as the BG series.  Too much hack n' slashery.  Not enough dialogosity with NPC types.  The graphics sure were pretty though.

PS:T is a great game if you like the Planescape universe.  Which I don't.  Still, the storyline was engaging and the "romances" were sweet so definitely worth playing anyway.  My advice:  be a fighter.  The spell system was just awful.  

NWN is pretty decent.  Graphics are good and the combat system seems balanced.  The limitation on party size, however, makes it really hard to anything tricky (like the gunline/rabbit trick).  And the linear storyline is not likely to make me want to do a replay.  I supposed that is balanced out in part by all the modules out there...

I can't play DA:O so I have no comment there.

Overall, my fav is BG2, with BG1 a close second.  A large part of that, however, is due to the work of the modder types.  Without all those AI improvements, bottomless bags o holdin', and new NPC girls to chase, I doubt I'd repeat playing BG2 as much as I have.  So hats off to Kulyok, DavidW, that Wisp guy, SimDingo, the Bigg, Domi, Weimer, whoever it was that made that Ascenion mod dealie...  can't ever remember his name...  , and all the others I can't remember right now.  Thank you!

[nikki191]

bg series for me hands down.. BG2 especially.

haha showing my age here but my first crpg was one i typed out in BASIC from a magazine the first comerical one i ever played was the bards tale on the amstrad cpc464.. ha diablo didnt invent the action rpg BARDS TALE DID. "party has killed 99 fighters" ah those were the days, nothing like spending 7 minutes loading a level on a tape casette and seeing the action on your monitor in shades of green

still though for atmosphere and caring about NPC's after BG would have to be the old dragon lance gold box games, import your characters and all not bad for 1990, this was the first game i actually cared about the NPC's there was a romance in the first game champions of krynnn but it was between two NPC's , plus you actually had hardcopy quest journals that the game told you to read choose your own adventure style good old days

*edit*

i hate you all .. not only has my BG addiction come back but i found dosbox so i can play the old dragonlance games.. good bye sweet reality i will miss thee

Modifié par nikki191, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:47 .

[HoonDing]

nikki191 wrote...

i hate you all .. not only has my BG addiction come back but i found dosbox so i can play the old dragonlance games.. good bye sweet reality i will miss thee

Yes, those were great games. I never got past the second game, though... I missed a crucial item somewhere which was necessary to beat Lord Soth... so that each time I killed him he just got back up again and again and again.

And that was before the days of online game guides.

[Ponce de Leon]

nikki191 wrote...
i hate you all .. not only has my BG addiction come back but i found dosbox so i can play the old dragonlance games.. good bye sweet reality i will miss thee

Oh no, this will end with one of those typical "blame Lauron, he's the idiot that always make people hate us!" even if I haven't said anything since page... something... 

[nikki191]

virumor wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

i hate you all .. not only has my BG addiction come back but i found dosbox so i can play the old dragonlance games.. good bye sweet reality i will miss thee

Yes, those were great games. I never got past the second game, though... I missed a crucial item somewhere which was necessary to beat Lord Soth... so that each time I killed him he just got back up again and again and again.

And that was before the days of online game guides.

that fight was a cow of a thing to beat even today 20 years later i still remember that lightning bolt at the golem/statue things have a slow effect that allows you to destroy them easiely, yet i cant remember what i did this morning.. ah priorities

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Luke Bioware wrote...

I say: "HELLZ YA!" Who's with this old geezer?

I'm with you. It's so good that I still play this today.

[dragon_83]

Baldur's Gate is among the best RPGs ever made, no argument here.



I've just realised that the old Bioware forums were shut down, and that they were placed here. Reading the topics makes me want to play BG again. The entire saga, from start to finish. I've always looked at these games as whole, for me BG means BG1+TotSC+BG2+ToB. And when I finished them, I think I will start the Icewind Dale saga, just because I love Infinity engine games.

[Sique Foque]

Started the Campaign of BG2 on the Weekend with two friends online and simultanously began BG1 again. It still has this great atmosphere and the character creation (especially in BG2 with more variety) is just thrilling. Well I guess it also has to do with the fact, that I played D&D back in the day



But seriously it starts with how the journal is written in first person, it just sucks you in.



And I really do miss the class, skill and race variety in many modern games. DA was a good balance, not to frighten newcomers with too much complexity in the beginning, but slowly building upon the skill trees.



All I hope is, both buddies will stay to the end of the MP Campaign given the amount of content

[DapperDan77]

Still on my first playthrough of BG 1 here, so it's new to me (Just hit 2nd Cloakwood area, cleared most wilderness areas I could except haven't been to Gullykin or Firewine yet). I am definitely enjoying it so far, however...my only gripe is how boring it is to play as melee. There is NOTHING for me to do during a fight except click once per bad guy. Seems to me that magic users get all the fun and strategy. Having a decent sized party alleviates this somewhat, as I still get to do interesting things with Dynaheir/Imoen/Viconia (I mean in COMBAT! Get your minds outta the gutter, geez!) but I'd still like to be able to do more than just stand there swinging my sword. So yeah, for actual gameplay mechanics I MUCH prefer 3.5 rules as it gives melee types something to actually do (Knockdown, disarm, cleaves etc). Though even more fun is the Star Wars D&D rules. Force Jump is ftw!

Story-wise it's good, more interesting at this point than NWN was (I found the middle of NWN dragged on quite a bit), but I'm not quite as absorbed as I was with KotOR's story (Which was epic, and was easily the best story in the star wars universe since the original movies).

Anyway, that's my take on BG so far. Fairly average combat, good story so far, great characters and some awesome yet odd little encounters (WTF is with that Noober guy? lol).

At this point KotOR remains my favourite Bioware RPG, however that may or may not change once I've finished BG and BG2 and ToB. Yet to play the 2 NWN expansions though, so I guess there's a slim chance SoU/HotU may end up being my favourite, seems unlikely though.

As for DA:O, I find it hard to compare the Bioware D&D games to it. I know it's supposed to be the spiritual successor, but in a way it feels seperate from all those games. It's hard to explain, but DA just doesn't seem to quite have the spirit (for want of a better word) that the old games did. It just seems to be missing a certain Je ne sais pas quoi. I get a slight vibe of cynicism from DA though I couldn't say why.

[Dante2377]

DapperDan77 wrote...

my only gripe is how boring it is to play as melee. There is NOTHING for me to do during a fight except click once per bad guy. Seems to me that magic users get all the fun and strategy.

In general this is why I've only played BG through a couple of times, but BG2 through at least 50.  Levels 7-18 or so to me are the prime mid-game where you're learning/advancing and getting new skills/spells/etc all the time, but have advanced enough where one critical hit isn't going to wipe out a character.  Also the same reason why I normally stop playing a party halfway through TOB.

[Guilebrush]

DapperDan77 wrote...

At this point KotOR remains my favourite Bioware RPG, however that may or may not change once I've finished BG and BG2 and ToB. Yet to play the 2 NWN expansions though, so I guess there's a slim chance SoU/HotU may end up being my favourite, seems unlikely though.

The first KOTOR was a blast to play, it's quite unfortunate that the sequel ended up (in)famous for its unmet promise/potential since it felt extremely rushed, especially towards the end. The NWN expansions are both good, SoU doesn't get too much praise and is generally seen as the weakest of the NWN games but I personally found the storyline a bit more interesting than the original NWN's OC. HotU was fantastic if you like highlevel campaigns.

Continue giving BG a chance. like Dante pointed out it gets really really good when you get to SoA. While the more recent BIogames have improved on many aspects over the years none have come close to capturing the sheer sense of scale one gets when they first enter chapter 2 of BG2. The map density is great, and it feels like there's always one more place to go and explore.

And yes for the most part martial combat in BG2 boils down to hitting the right enemy with the right weapon in each encounter. One thing though is I've yet to experience a magic system in any CRPG that has the same potential for power that one can achieve in BG2 and ToB. At the very least it means you rarely get to rest on your laurels simply for being at a higher level than most mobs. This for me was the biggest problem in KOTOR and DA:O, once you hit a certain level you were functionally invincible, enemies simply could not keep up so while you had all these nice toys to play around with and use there was very little point to using them. You'll find this will hardly be the case at high levels in Baldur's Gate.

[DapperDan77]

Yeah true, my double-bladed dex based soldier/guardian (or was it scoundrel/guardian? I forget) with master speed absolutley destroyed anything in seconds. Force jump to be instantly in the front lines, then about 18-million attacks per round. Most stuff dropped in a second or two.

[DapperDan77]

Incidentally, for anyone else on their first playthrough, DO NOT I repeat DO NOT use a walk through (I wanted to use it to make sure I didn't miss any cool quests/loot etc.). I made that mistake at first, and now I know an awful spoiler about my characters heritage. And I do mean an AWFUL spoiler
 I will certainly not be making that mistake with BG II.

[HoonDing]

At least in BG2 fighters get a tad more interesting, with the inclusion of special abilities like whirlwind attack, death blow etc.



But let's face it, fighters are the most boring class in any RPG.

[The Fred]

In BG1 you do have a slight tactical element as a fighter-type given your choice of weapons and whether you use a ranged weapon (ranged weapons in BG1 are a lot more powerful than melee ones generally, at least early on, since you can use a lot of hit-and-run tactics). However I've always found casters more interesting, and not just in BG (even more in other games where being a fighter really is just "hit them with a big sword"). I've never really known what I'd be able to do if I got stuck as a fighter. At least as a mage I can reload and try different spell combos and tactics and things.

[Luke Bioware]

I started playing again as a Ranger/Cleric. He follows in the footsteps of a mighty Wild Mage, Fighter//Cleric and the Cavalier.

[nimzar]

You know as great as Bioware is at making RPGs, I can't help feel like it must be depressing for them to realize that a game they made over 10 years ago is still widely considered their best work.



Dragon Age is IMO, the closest they've come to matching the greatness of the BG series and even that pales in comparison.



Also someone mentioned PS:T and IWD1&2 here... shouldn't they get boards here? I know they were by Black Isle... but they do use the BioWare's Infinity Engine.

[Crippled Jack]

 

I can't help feel like it must be depressing for them to realize that a game they made over 10 years ago is still widely considered their best work.

I somehow doubt that.

[Ponce de Leon]

They hardly acknowledge the existence of it, so yeah, I doubt that too

[Marn_Cherone]

THE BEST RPG EVER CREATED!!! Replayed BG Series just a month ago. currently replaying Dragon Age. Now in direct comparison I have to say... Dragon Age is NO match for Baldur's Gate in pretty every aspect!!! That doesen't mean DA is a bad game. It is currently among the best. The Baldur's Gate Series however is so intensly pure awsome, fantastic, original, funny, genius, epic .. I feel connected to this game, you know what I mean? It does everything right!

Modifié par Marn_Cherone, 01 août 2010 - 10:00 .

[Marn_Cherone]

@nimzar



PS:T and IWD Series do use Biowares Infinity Engine and are greatly related to the BG Series, are however developed by Black Isle Studios.



(Just replayed PS:T for 2 term averagly 3 month ago after beaten it years ago... I knew it had great story, but I couldn't remember it was such intense! never thought a game could cause me some tears.....)

[nimzar]

Marn_Cherone wrote...

@nimzar

PS:T and IWD Series do use Biowares Infinity Engine and are greatly related to the BG Series, are however developed by Black Isle Studios.

(Just replayed PS:T for 2 term averagly 3 month ago after beaten it years ago... I knew it had great story, but I couldn't remember it was such intense! never thought a game could cause me some tears.....)

I know that they were developed by Black Isle... I said so in my post. But we've got NWN2 here and that was Developed by Obsidian... so there is precedent. 

[The Fred]

Obsidian said they could put NWN2 here though (afaik). Also, there's a closer link between NWN1 and 2 because aside from the engine, one is an actual sequel to the other, whereas IWD and PS:T were always apart from BG, however related (like cousins rather than siblings).