185 réponses à ce sujet

[The Fred]

Guilebrush wrote...

DapperDan77 wrote...

At this point KotOR remains my favourite Bioware RPG, however that may or may not change once I've finished BG and BG2 and ToB. Yet to play the 2 NWN expansions though, so I guess there's a slim chance SoU/HotU may end up being my favourite, seems unlikely though.

The first KOTOR was a blast to play, it's quite unfortunate that the sequel ended up (in)famous for its unmet promise/potential since it felt extremely rushed, especially towards the end. The NWN expansions are both good, SoU doesn't get too much praise and is generally seen as the weakest of the NWN games but I personally found the storyline a bit more interesting than the original NWN's OC. HotU was fantastic if you like highlevel campaigns.

I enjoyed KotOR very much but it lacked replayability for me; not enough bredth of content or even many class choices to play with.
Personally I liked SoU the best from NWN1, because it felt a lot more polished than HotU; Chapter 2 of the latter, where you were in the Underdark, was quite good, but Chaper 1 was just a dungoen crawl without much of interest to recommend it and Chapter 3 I just never really got into - again, not enough bredth really, imo. Then again, I'm not really that keen on high-level campaigns.
In terms of storyline, its successor NWN2 is a far cry from the old BG games too, but there are a whole bunch of engine features (especially with the second expansion SoZ, which I mean to get sometime, which offers full-party creation, IWD-style, and Overland Maps and stuff) which do recapture some of that "old-school" awesomeness.
Mind you, I still haven't actually played BG2 very far (I don't own it so I've only played the very start) so maybe I should do that first.

[BruceVC]

Yes for me so far BG2 has been my favorite RPG of all time .....I only bought it 3 months ago...and I still have TOB to look forward to it

[nimzar]

The Fred wrote...

I still haven't actually played BG2 very far (I don't own it so I've only played the very start) so maybe I should do that first.

Yes, yes, a million times yes. 

[The Fred]

Well, that's me told.

[Ducu]

I played BG2 a long time ago. I think it was about 8 or 9 years ago. My dad bought it for me and my brother. We were the only ones in the area who heard of the game. Soon after we got internet installed, and i looked-up BioWare as a company. I remembered them when Dragon Age: Origins was launched. I practically begged my parents to get me a new graphics card so i could play it. And soon after i started playing the Mass Effect series, Knights of the Old Republic series, and i never was dissapointed. My friends are retarded though. They think that Blizzard is a better RPG company. But, for the love of God, the guys from BioWare have made only RPGs. Don't get me wrong, i liked Diablo, but it lacked lots of stuff. Like looting everything off your opponent, and being able to talk yourself out of tough situations. Anyway, I wish they'd update BG2's graphics and everything.

[Talonfire]

In my case, yes, I consider Baldur's Gate BioWare's best. They're the only BioWare RPGs I replay annually. I can see why some of BioWare's newer fans who jumped on with Knights of the Old Republic, or one of BioWare's later games might be turned off though since it's a little difficult to get into older games you've never played before, even for me and I'm fairly old school.

One of the aspects that gives Baldur's Gate an edge I believe, is how it feels like an epic classical fairy tale. I think there's a certain charm to the series that isn't present in BioWare's later work. The original Baldur's Gate was a coming of age story for your character, Shadows of Amn was their darkest hour, and The Throne of Bhaal was the
epic climax to their story. Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire managed to capture a similar feeling, but KotOR was predictably missing the coming of age segment (the player character was in their mid 20s at least) and since the other two segments were compressed into a single story it didn't feel as epic as Baldur's Gate, and Jade Empire tried to compress all three of these elements into a very, very brief storyline thus it also lacked the "epic" feel.

Another element, the characters. What I really, really dislike about many modern BioWare games is how you end up playing armchair psychologist with all of your party members, and play a hand in shaping their destinies and personalities. In Baldur's Gate characters seemed more "real", they didn't come to you and go on about their histories or personal problems unless you were pursuing a "romance" with one of the Baldur's Gate II love interests. Conversations were far more infrequent in the Baldur's Gate series than they are in BioWare's later stuff, but they seemed more "natural", and you didn't play much of a role in determining the fates of your companions. Most of the characters felt more autonomous and less needy as a result; their fates were their own, and since you weren't automatically seen as important, or even respected by your companions many of them wouldn't have thought twice about killing you if you did start to meddle in their affairs.

I won't touch on the gameplay since this post is already too long, and most other people have already stated what I would have said on the matter.

Modifié par Talonfire, 05 août 2010 - 05:39 .

[jaxsbudgie]

Drats! This thread passed me by ... here are my two cents:

As people were discussing about the similarities between Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I think the writers are trying to streamline the story aspect more for today's console tardy generation, by giving the protagonist the role of Spectre or Warden, the player is propelled into a narrative in which they have no choice over, heading ever closer to a conclusion their 'role' has the final sway over.

Those comparisons dark-lauron raised about the ME and DA:O narratives are hilarious. So hilarious it's actually a little worrying, worrying that this is the best Bioware's writers are capable of coming up with. I do like what ME is doing though, it's been a while since I've brought one character through three games like nursing a child into godhood .... no wait, that was Baldur's Gate.

I first played Baldur's Gate 1 when I was about 9 methinks, the game petrified me. I would gather Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid and Garrick (I didn't like evil characters so never picked up Montaron or Xzar) and would marvel at my skill in making it to Beregost alive. I would be so content, I'd even quit and start a new game, just to wind in Beregost again. I think I once plucked up the courage and ventured into Peldvale (I always did wonder where that stone path from the FAI went to ....), picked up a black skinned women I had no idea would turn out to be my beloved dark maiden and fled the moment the Black Talon Bandits attacked me, with the glowing blue arrows that wiped out my entire party! That certainly taught me to never leave the safety of Beregost ever again. Gosh I'm all nostalgic now.
It wasn't until SoA came out where I began to play the game a bit more. It may or may not have been my awkward early teens or the fact that I may or may not have had it on the easiest setting, but I did it nonetheless, and I felt like a god ... little did I know what was in store....
I then went on with my new found confidence to obliterate ToB. And to this day Viconia's ending still makes me weak.

Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 06 août 2010 - 12:51 .

[The Fred]

I remember my first playthoughs of BG well...

1) Got killed by a wolf outside Candlekeep whilst sorting my inventory.

2) Got killed by skellies after I wandered down to High Hedge by mistake.

3) Obviously, got killed by Tarnesh outside the FAI.

After many of the more common deaths (getting killed by Neira the assassin in Nashkel or the guy in the Red Sheaf are favourites), I think I finally managed to play long enough for Monty and Xzar to pick a fight with J&K. It wasn't pretty either.

Ah, happy days...

[FlintlockJazz]

I've been thinking and I think I finally worked out why DAO did not live up to my expectations (apart from having too high expectations due to it being the supposed spiritual succession), and ironically I suspect that in part it may have been due to the devs giving what players like me thought we wanted.

Before DAO, I used to think that it was the story and the companions that set BG apart. Sure, there were other parts that were great as well such as the sidequests, but other games like Oblivion had sidequests and an open world etc but I found Oblivion boring and soulless and so that couldn't have had an impact on why I liked BG right? When I played DAO, which don't get me wrong I do like, just not as much as the BG games, I couldn't initially understand what it was that was missing. Technically it should have been better on the fronts that improved on, I mean you get swamped with companion discussions and the story, but for some reason I missed the sidequests and the open world feel of BG, something I had not previously realised was important. It was the fact that you could go off on a sidequest that often had a plot and characterisation as detailed as the main plot itself, ones that you could choose to completely avoid and yet if you did go on them it would like a story by itself.

I'm also not a big item fan, as long as I can find an item that fits my style I'm happy, and so that shouldn't have made an impact either right?  I did however enjoy the unique items in BG, they had personality and history, something I like to have in a game, whereas DAO you just did not get the same feel for them even for the unique items.  Who can forget the grin that crossed their face whenever they heard Lilarcor's bloodthirsty warcries or when they defeated Firkraag and lay claim to the Holy Avenger?  I personally blame the MMO style of grading they used in DAO for this, the dragonbone and mithril gradings they gave items (might as well have just used purple, green and pink or whatever they use in MMOs) along with how stats worked in that game made it clear which items were better and most just felt like an improvement on earlier items, plus (I find myself shocked to say this) there just wasn't that much of them (unless you count all the dlc, which ruined the idea of questing for items when they were dumped into your inventory from the start for 'preordering').  While most of the standard gear in BG was pretty much the same, the unique items were more unclear, with some items actually being useful for certain characters etc.

I have finally concluded that the reason why BG is still Bioware's best series despite the technical awesomeness of DAO, is that it had that perfect blend of story, companions, open-world and sidequests that DAO seemed to have lost. A sidequest in BG1 and 2 involved going off the main plotline and into unknown territory many times, meeting people you would otherwise not do so, while the sidequests in DAO mostly consisted of "While you are in the big dungeon doing the main quest, would you pick up this thing on the way? Don't worry, you'll literally fall over it just doing your thing..." This (some would say minor) difference meant that in BG I felt like an adventurer while in DAO I felt like I was playing through a game.

EDIT:  Added the paragraph about items.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 12 août 2010 - 10:20 .

[Aseya]

for me there is a couple of things that set BG ( 2 more than 1) apart from the rest of rpg games and why I keep going back to them

1) random maniacs you encountered that did not care about the main plot line/ fate of the world and provided reasons for side quests or interesting and more varied encounters - fastest darts thrower, tree destroyers, Silke in BG1, Xzar and his apprentices, druid grove, skinner in BG2 and many many more. It was so much more real an enetertaining than fighting minions of the main vilian over and over again

2) inetersting dungeons - most games DAO included makes dunegons BORING and UGLY. BG2 for me is prime example of interesting underground without levels and levels of mostly same minimal graphics and minions. DAO dwarf area could benefit so much by cutting the arera by half and make more depth to the story - there certainly was more than enough history and lore for it
(BG1 seweres were a bit repetitive but the mines level were quite good and ofc BG2 was spot on from the starting dungeon, temples, to Underdark, and ofc the big tower expansion)

I can fully understand the kind of ranodm encounters i long for takes tiem and resource and someone just going after main plot may not even get to them but to me that's why BG series was so unforgetable and why I think about one quest or fight one day and than cant wait to start the whole game again.
Maybe for the same level of exitment in newer games we would need to rely on imagination of modding community but somehow its just not the same.

Modifié par Aseya, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:39 .

[Fizzeler]

Yeah after getting these games and Expansions I can say I agree, interesting Party Members (Minsc and Xan are awesome to bad the latter is not in BG2), great story and very open, the only flaw I see is the graphics and the fact that I getting mob by equal leveled enemies may own your party

[Humanoid_Taifun]

There is a very good mod that adds Xan as an NPC for BG2.

[Fizzeler]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

There is a very good mod that adds Xan as an NPC for BG2.

Awesome!

He is my favorite character from BG then Minsc

[The Fred]

The mines in BG were horrible. Mines are always horrible. The rest was great, though. TBH, I think they'd be horrible in real life, anyway.

[Luke Bioware]

I liked the mines D:.

[Kortok]

Easily Bioware's best series, there's not even a close second and at this point I'm not sure that there ever will be.

[ncknck]

BG's "spells per day" system is annoying and exploitable.

Modifié par ncknck, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:20 .

[Luke Bioware]

Is that your big critique on this game ? I kinda liked it. You can cheese your way through Dragon Age too.

[ncknck]

No im just saying. I doubt anything will top BG series anytime soon. Simply because they all, DA etc are designed with a close camera view in mind. As such they all feel like just yet another Adventure. And honestly every first game today is a 3D Adventure of some sort. While BG has party view and focused more on tactics. Unique. Like good old SNES classics. lol.

Modifié par ncknck, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:46 .

[jaxsbudgie]

I really, really, really dislike 'mana' in role playing games. Eurgh. Just use a spell book. It's not as if I don't have enough potions to micro-manage for you to throw in a whole plethora of mana potions at me.

[jaxsbudgie]

Double post.

Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:41 .

[Fizzeler]

The series even has some of the greatest villains in BioWare history who are only beaten by Master Li



After adjusting the Spellbook system is much preferable to mana

[CoM Solaufein]

Everyone knows that the BG series is the best ever.

[Rzepik2]

It is the best.

Forever? I hope not.

[Grim_Squeaker]

For me, the greatest RPG's thus far have been the Baldur's Gate series and Planescape Torment. Followed by the early Fallout stuff. So many happy memories