27 replies to this topic

[MokahTGS]

Posted 05/23/09 15:37 (GMT) by lancerlot_30v

Hey guys,

I've just launched a NWN2 Character Builder website over at nwn2db.com. It lets you build a character from scratch, including classes, feats, abilities (etc etc) and share your builds with others. You can even copy existing builds and customise them.

There's also an extensive knowledge base and armory with info on all in-game armor, weapons and items.

The website's currently in the beta stage and there's still lots of features that I'd like to add or extend upon, but it's stable and ready for people to start building. If you'd like to check out what I have planned for future expansions, head over to my development blog.

If you've got any ideas or feedback (or bug reports) you can use the feedback form on the site (or reply to this post of course). I'm really interested in seeing what everyone thinks of the workflow.

Thanks!

Lancerlot.

[kyllroy]

This character builder site is so nice. Says something about the people to me. Nice to see it ported over here for everyone to enjoy.

[MokahTGS]

Yeah the guy who put that together is a real ace.

[Tooneyman]

I'll definitely be using this for my next play through. I've got to start from scratch because my computer got wiped. ECK!. Thanks I appreciate it.

[philty_]

i think its cool too, coz i dont even have the game and wanna know how my lvl 20 char would look like.

[Adam024]

Quick question- and I was hoping to save the time of going through that character generator (I alway screw it up!). I have a 6th-level wizard with 4 levels of Red Wizard. I was thinking of adding 5 levels of Pale Master for the AC bonus and the other extras that come with it- is it worth it- I know it really would only cost me two caster levels, as PM gets spells at levels 1, 3,

[Thorsson64]

You already made one bıg mıstake - takıng RWoT levels too early, before you learnt all the spells from the (second) school you are now banned from. You need 17 casting levels for level 9 spells, so I suggest stoppıng at 1 PM level gettıng the 2 free AC.

[Adam024]

Never thought of that- I just looked at the school I was least likely to take spells from. I will keep that in mind if I ever go the archane magic path again! Thanks!

[gav gaming]

also been using the character builder. Excellent web design, if I can say

[Xovian]

Only one problem with the site I've ever seen.

Don't post builds publicly that aren't power builds.
The comments you will get will be quite needless and unproductive if they aren't.

It really amazes me how the anonymity of the internet can cause some people to become such tools.

The site itself is great, you can do a lot of experimenting, and thus far if you can make it happen there, you can make it happen in game. There doesnt seem to be any errors when it comes to feats, skills or other wise, so test away.

And most of all have fun with it!

[The Fred]

You can post RP-sensible builds, just say so. However, you can keep builds in the private space, for not sharing with people, if they aren't powerbuilds etc.

[Arkalezth]

There's a difference between decent builds and powerbuilds. And RP builds can be as good as any other, some people use that as an excuse after they post a bad build and get a bad critic. I've posted many builds, some of them with a RP focus, so I know what I'm talking about. Also, the vast majority of my builds have at least a conversation skill maxed, and I haven't posted a single PvP build, because I'm not interested in that.

The problem is that there's a lot (and I mean, a LOT) of crap builds for each decent one, so you have to search carefully if you want to find something interesting. I think newbies should learn from experienced builders if they want to post builds and have no idea of what they're doing. It's ok to experiment by yourself, but if you're new to the game and post a bad public build, don't be surprised if you get a negative critic.

[Xovian]

The problem is that there's a lot (and I mean, a LOT) of crap builds for each decent one,

And here belies the differences in builders.

If there is a truly a crap build, then I need to ask what game you think
you're playing, because D&D, and every iteration of it since it's
inception has never had the probability to even make such a thing.
Unless you make a character that has 3 to every stat  (which was
possible but highly improbable under some of the old rules, but not
since TSR sold out), you can never have a character that is completely
useless. EVER.

You are the very type of person my post was aimed
at, so that others would know that if they are making anything but a
power build, not to post it as "public" because of opinions like yours.
The site has tags, when they are tagged as power-builds / pvp, or other variants that its common sense to
maximize/munchkinize, then many of the critics seem out right rude. Go
read some of them.

The only other time they should be publicly posted is if a critique is actually desired (yup, there's tags for that too).

Bottom line the site itself is great, but many of the posters comments are
derogatory, inflammatory and degrading to the people who posted the
builds, yet a majority of these so called "bad builds" accomplish what they
state as their "goal" for their characters. If a stated goal is achieved, then it's not a bad build.

Criticism would say how the goal could be achieved with different
methods, or even easier methods, but bashing a build of anyone no
matter how "bad" is no longer criticism, it's just people making an ass of themselves.

Edited by Xovian, 03 May 2011 - 02:24 AM.

[Arkalezth]

I think I'm playing NWN2. And, like it or not, there's better and worse builds.

Just an example I saw yesterday, no need to go further: Barbarian build with the feat Spellcasting Prodigy. Sorry, but that's not a good (useless, actually) building decission. It also had a Shadowdancer level, but it didn't have neither Dodge nor Mobility. My English vocabulary isn't very extensive, and the word "crap" came to mind when I saw it. There's a huge gap between that and a powerbuild.

And you're right, there's harsh criticism sometimes, but usually, that criticism comes with a whole bunch of good advice right next to it. Unfortunately, most of the time in those cases, people seems to miss the advice, and repeat the same mistakes in the next build.

What I'm saying is that a bit of research about game mechanics is advisable before posting public builds. And I sincerely think that it would reduce that rude criticism, which usually comes from repeating the same advice over and over and over again.

[Thorne_underfoot]

@Xovian,

so it sounds like you got bit. Not everyone that posts on that site (or this one) has the greatest tact or manners. And some just are mean spirited people. That shouldn't mean that you stoop to their levels.

There are bad builds. And there are reasons to post not necessarily "Power" builds on that site. i routinely post publicly on that site because I get a combination that I think is cool or that I can't quite put together. And I have had quite a lot of feedback that wasn't necessarily geared towards "Power" Builds, but just "I see what you are doing here, but THIS (fill in the blank) might be a better way to go about it".

And yes, there are those who just denigrate and belittle people who don't make Top 10 PvP killers. But if you ignore them, there is plenty of good advise. Even if you only use the site for searching out others who have had ideas.

As example, there are feats that I know am less enchanted with after building/posting sample builds on that site. I got feedback from someone that told me other feats that I should consider first. Not to make a great build, but to make the one I had/wanted work better.

So, just ignore those who aren't very nice. But don't "Just post if you want a Power build", because you will miss out on some genuinely good advise. IMHO.

[dunniteowl]

And also, while it may be your opinion that you can't make a 'useless' character build, (this is to Xovian) I have been playing this silly little game since 1979 and yes, Xovian, you can *(and have always been able to) make a "bad" character that is virtually useless in most, if not all, respects. Just no-one, but the most gifted players will bother with them to make them "work."

As to the 'rude' advice and criticism, I have a cool new spell for you for when you next visit. It's called Greater Thicker Skin. You cast it just before you peruse the site. If your level is high enough the spell should last all the way through your experience and you will find yourself less likely to post your own rude bash post against a bunch of people you don't know. It's an amazing spell.

dunniteowl

[robertthebard]

I dunno, I like to do odd builds, just because people will complain about them. If you don't like my Druid/Wiz/AA, that's too bad. I DO. There's nothing like Cat's Grace/True Strike, with both an animal companion and a familiar to run around with. The "OOO, you should have gone ranger for the Archery Style" blah blah can be stowed someplace warm and stinky. If I wanted to build the same character that 45 14 year old powergamers was building, I would have, and frankly, I'd have probably done a better job of it.

At the end of the day, the only person that has to worry about how my characters are built is me, as, surprise surprise, I'm the one playing them. If somebody doesn't like it, that's cool with me, It probably stems more from they couldn't play it than it's bad. While you most assuredly can build bad, the above Shadowdancer wouldn't be possible, in game, you can't build it w/out the prereq feats. Since the only feats required for Shadowdancer are Dodge and Mobility, it stands to reason that somebody was having somebody on, or somebody was trying to justify bashing the way others build characters?

[Arkalezth]

That's the purpose of private builds. No one is going to stop you from making them public, but if you want them only for yourself and don't want others' opinions, you don't need to make them public.

You are not interested in criticism and that's fine, some people actually want and request criticism for their builds. My point is that some people, being new to the game, could make a search in the database and probably find what they're looking for, instead of trying to (badly) make one with no clue about how things work in the game, and getting mad about the people who explains how things work in the game.

BTW, Druid/Wiz/AA sounds good to me, but I don't think you can have two active summons at once. And there's a big difference between that and a Barbarian with Spellcasting Prodigy.

All in all, a forum, a moderator, or something like that, would be a welcomed addition to the site.

[The Fred]

Can you still link to private builds, though? I haven't actually tried this. Otherwise, what if you want to share a build with certain people, without it beign a powerbuild?

[Arkalezth]

No, private builds can only be seen by you as far as I know. If you want to share it with someone and don't want comments, say it in the description (you'll still get comments asking why you don't want comments). But even in that case, you may still get some helpful comments.

Not related: I'd also like to be able to build characters with less than 10 levels. Sometimes I build a character for, say, a level 7 module, and have 3 remaining unused levels. I don't think that's hard to implement, but the site hasn't been updated in a long while and I don't expect changes any time soon (or any time, period).

[Arkalezth]

Good news! A forum has been created, to discuss builds, for newbies to ask advice, etc. It doesn't have a lot of things yet but I think it's a great idea.

Link: http://nwn2db.freeforums.org/index.php

[robertthebard]

Arkalezth wrote...

That's the purpose of private builds. No one is going to stop you from making them public, but if you want them only for yourself and don't want others' opinions, you don't need to make them public.

You are not interested in criticism and that's fine, some people actually want and request criticism for their builds. My point is that some people, being new to the game, could make a search in the database and probably find what they're looking for, instead of trying to (badly) make one with no clue about how things work in the game, and getting mad about the people who explains how things work in the game.

BTW, Druid/Wiz/AA sounds good to me, but I don't think you can have two active summons at once. And there's a big difference between that and a Barbarian with Spellcasting Prodigy.

All in all, a forum, a moderator, or something like that, would be a welcomed addition to the site.

It's been pretty fun so far, and you can have both summons at the same time.  My little bat can cast my ranged touch mage spells, and my panther mostly gets beat up...But you get a nice diversive spell list, and ranged attacks.  I've been playing with "odd" builds since about 2 years into NWN's.  As I said, you can have some bad builds, but if you're having fun with them, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.  While this is true, it's also true that there's no reason to bash people about their build.  They'll find out soon enough if it's really horrible, all by themselves.

[MartinJHolm]

Thanks for linking that site, very useful for quickly testing stuff.

[Odd Hermit]

I just wish the site had a better way to search for strong builds. Sorting by votes doesn't seem to function, and I'm having trouble finding a build to suit my needs that'd be reasonably strong because there are so many to shift through and if there aren't any comments you can't really tell what's decent if you're not an experienced builder yourself.