175 réponses à ce sujet

[RunCDFirst]

I'll buy this anyway.



If it's bad though, I'll skip the triquel.

[odiedragon]

rooky91 wrote...

At first I was like everyone else annoyed with the lack of new races and all the other stuff but regardless of how we feel now we all know this game will be in our homes by this time next year. Why? Because its BIOWARE, when have they ever let you down!

Given everything I've seen about the game (that mystical released information that everyone is discounting and saying is irrevalant and should not be used to pass judement on the game), as of right now, no, I will not be buying the game. 

Honestly at this point, even if I did learn something that I liked about it, I'd not purchase it on principle.  They bait-and-switched us.  They sold us on a wonderful revamp of a classic RPG, and for the "sequel" we get The Cinematic Adventures of Sword!Shep.  So no, I won't be supporting it.  Sorry.

[Ecael]

odiedragon wrote...

Honestly at this point, even if I did learn something that I liked about it, I'd not purchase it on principle.  They bait-and-switched us.

http://en.wiktionary...bait_and_switch

"An unscrupulous and sometimes illegal sales technique, in which an inexpensive product is advertised to attract prospective customers who are then told by sales personnel that the inexpensive product is unavailable or of poor quality and are instead urged to buy a more expensive product."

Not even close to bait-and-switch. You already bought the product you wanted at the same price set for Dragon Age 2, and you've already said you're not going to buy the game.

Modifié par Ecael, 14 juillet 2010 - 02:08 .

[IRMcGhee]

I'm sure I'll add DA2 to my collection, I like the sound of it so far, and I don't mind that it'll have a new cast as the Warden's story is reportedly going to be completed before DA2's release.

The only Bioware PC games I haven't liked enough to buy new were the Icewind Dale series (Bioware's strength has always been their well-written characters, those games didn't really have any).

Modifié par IRMcGhee, 14 juillet 2010 - 02:35 .

[odiedragon]

Ecael wrote...

odiedragon wrote...

Honestly at this point, even if I did learn something that I liked about it, I'd not purchase it on principle.  They bait-and-switched us.

http://en.wiktionary...bait_and_switch

"An unscrupulous and sometimes illegal sales technique, in which an inexpensive product is advertised to attract prospective customers who are then told by sales personnel that the inexpensive product is unavailable or of poor quality and are instead urged to buy a more expensive product."

Not even close to bait-and-switch. You already bought the product you wanted at the same price set for Dragon Age 2, and you've already said you're not going to buy the game.

It's bait-and-switch on a franchise level, not the individual products.  We were sold one thing in DA:O and now they want us to buy the sequel which is very different.

Of coruse it's not illegal, I never said it was.  But it's still a rotten way to treat your customers.

[packardbell]

Even if I knew nothing about the game itself I would still buy it, love Bioware too much.

[Kohaku]

odiedragon wrote...

Ecael wrote...

odiedragon wrote...

Honestly at this point, even if I did learn something that I liked about it, I'd not purchase it on principle.  They bait-and-switched us.

http://en.wiktionary...bait_and_switch

"An unscrupulous and sometimes illegal sales technique, in which an inexpensive product is advertised to attract prospective customers who are then told by sales personnel that the inexpensive product is unavailable or of poor quality and are instead urged to buy a more expensive product."

Not even close to bait-and-switch. You already bought the product you wanted at the same price set for Dragon Age 2, and you've already said you're not going to buy the game.

It's bait-and-switch on a franchise level, not the individual products.  We were sold one thing in DA:O and now they want us to buy the sequel which is very different.

Of coruse it's not illegal, I never said it was.  But it's still a rotten way to treat your customers.

I totally understand where you're coming from odiedragon. However, my friend and I were talking about this last night. I honestly think a lot of people are forgetting that this is Bioware's project. It's not ours. We have no financial stake in the making of this game. I would never want to drop unreasonable expectations of anybody when it's their dream and vision of what they want the game to be.

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't voice their dislike, excitement or whatever for what we have seen. I do think it's strange that people are basically saying, "Well we don't care what the people who are creating the game want. I want what I want and that's how it should be." Now that, I think is unfair.

[Ecael]

odiedragon wrote...

Ecael wrote...

odiedragon wrote...

Honestly at this point, even if I did learn something that I liked about it, I'd not purchase it on principle.  They bait-and-switched us.

http://en.wiktionary...bait_and_switch

"An unscrupulous and sometimes illegal sales technique, in which an inexpensive product is advertised to attract prospective customers who are then told by sales personnel that the inexpensive product is unavailable or of poor quality and are instead urged to buy a more expensive product."

Not even close to bait-and-switch. You already bought the product you wanted at the same price set for Dragon Age 2, and you've already said you're not going to buy the game.

It's bait-and-switch on a franchise level, not the individual products.  We were sold one thing in DA:O and now they want us to buy the sequel which is very different.

Of coruse it's not illegal, I never said it was.  But it's still a rotten way to treat your customers.

If BioWare packaged Dragon Age: Origins with Dragon Age 2, then it would be similar to bait-and-switch.

However, you paid for Dragon Age: Origins as advertised and played it to your heart's content. Just because a separate, standalone game isn't changing the way you would like it to doesn't mean you were somehow cheated out of your money.

[nikki191]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Didn't buy Awakenings, don't ever really plan on it. If I do, it'll be used for sure.
Same with all the DLC after RtO. Probably not going to buy any of it.
Sure I'll take a look at DA2 and follow the development, however at this point I'm in a pretty solid NO position. Bioware will have to work to convince me otherwise.
I don't NEED games. I choose to buy certain ones that I will enjoy. I have self-control...

good on you and wise move for not getting awakenings, i did and i regret it, i still have never completed it due to the bugs.

as for the topic question im not sure at this stage,  my pc is at the just running DA:O stage so if the system requirements increase which i would say they will thats a no, if i can still play it however, im keen to see what they do with the sequel. i expect the story to be much tighter story wise, not to mention it will be good seeing a different area of thedas from a non warden, well i assume a non warden. as for races, ill miss my city else and dwarf but the human noble was my second favourite origin after the female city elf.

Modifié par nikki191, 14 juillet 2010 - 02:47 .

[Gatt9]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

odiedragon wrote...

Ecael wrote...

odiedragon wrote...

Honestly at this point, even if I did learn something that I liked about it, I'd not purchase it on principle.  They bait-and-switched us.

http://en.wiktionary...bait_and_switch

"An unscrupulous and sometimes illegal sales technique, in which an inexpensive product is advertised to attract prospective customers who are then told by sales personnel that the inexpensive product is unavailable or of poor quality and are instead urged to buy a more expensive product."

Not even close to bait-and-switch. You already bought the product you wanted at the same price set for Dragon Age 2, and you've already said you're not going to buy the game.

It's bait-and-switch on a franchise level, not the individual products.  We were sold one thing in DA:O and now they want us to buy the sequel which is very different.

Of coruse it's not illegal, I never said it was.  But it's still a rotten way to treat your customers.

I totally understand where you're coming from odiedragon. However, my friend and I were talking about this last night. I honestly think a lot of people are forgetting that this is Bioware's project. It's not ours. We have no financial stake in the making of this game. I would never want to drop unreasonable expectations of anybody when it's their dream and vision of what they want the game to be.

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't voice their dislike, excitement or whatever for what we have seen. I do think it's strange that people are basically saying, "Well we don't care what the people who are creating the game want. I want what I want and that's how it should be." Now that, I think is unfair.

Relatively common misconception.

This would hold true if and only if Bioware were making this for themselves without intent to profit.

Bioware's making this as a commercial product that they wish us to purchase.  As such,  their job is to sell us their dream/vision,  and in doing so,  they've gotta alter that dream/vision to account for what we will purchase.

I.e.  If Bioware envisions the main character to be fighting demonic penguins while wearing a pink tu-tu and shouting "Bad boy bad boy!",  they may want to reflect on whether or not we are willing to pay them for that.

The "It's their dream/vision" arguement breaks down on commercialization.

Of course,  the problem is that the product isn't being driven by vision any longer,  but by marketing research.  This is obvious in analyzing Mass Effect's shift to Gears of War gameplay.  I'm pretty sure the vision for Mass Effect wasn't a Gears of War clone. 

So not only is it appropriate to criicize,  it's *absolutely* necessary,  because if gamers don't start making their voices heard,  Marketing departments are going to kill gaming,  sooner rather than later. 

[Tizle]

everyone knows this game's gonna be AWESOME. just quit QQ-ing about a game that is not out yet, and one that we all know will be AWESOME! quit it. NOW!!!

[Addai]

Buy it anyway?  Maybe.  For one thing, I live with a person who's less picky about his games than I am.  As of now, though, neither of us are thrilled about what we've heard, whereas we pre-ordered Origins.  The plan is to wait until the price drops, assuming reviews turn out to be good and we get it at all.

My take is that there are other things to do besides play video games, and if no one makes one I want to buy, I'll do those other things.  I would buy a Gaider novel if he writes another, but it will take more to sell me on the game.

[Gerudan]

rooky91 wrote...

At first I was like everyone else annoyed with the lack of new races and all the other stuff but regardless of how we feel now we all know this game will be in our homes by this time next year. Why? Because its BIOWARE, when have they ever let you down!

I probably will buy it yes, but I don't think, that I already know that it will suck, like some other people. 

[RunCDFirst]

Gatt9 wrote...

Relatively common misconception.

This would hold true if and only if Bioware were making this for themselves without intent to profit.

Bioware's making this as a commercial product that they wish us to purchase.  As such,  their job is to sell us their dream/vision,  and in doing so,  they've gotta alter that dream/vision to account for what we will purchase.
 

So author's should forget about writing stories they want to tell but just write about what people want to hear or what is popular? 

Musicians shouldn't experiment with sounds in ways they want to but only package what their audiences want, staying constantly in playlists of the same seven songs that made them popular?

I think artists of any sort have a right to express what they want with their work.

[Ecael]

Gatt9 wrote...

Relatively common misconception.

This would hold true if and only if Bioware were making this for themselves without intent to profit.

Bioware's making this as a commercial product that they wish us to purchase.  As such,  their job is to sell us their dream/vision,  and in doing so,  they've gotta alter that dream/vision to account for what we will purchase.

I.e.  If Bioware envisions the main character to be fighting demonic penguins while wearing a pink tu-tu and shouting "Bad boy bad boy!",  they may want to reflect on whether or not we are willing to pay them for that.

The "It's their dream/vision" arguement breaks down on commercialization.

That's assuming three things:
1. Bioware was originally a non-profit organization developing games (not true)
2. Bioware will automatically fail and get discarded by EA if they don't change (not true)
3. Bioware's writers and gameplay designers make more money by appealing to more people (not true)

If you believe that Bioware shouldn't "mess with success" by changing the game, then EA would be very much inclined to believe that as well.

Of course,  the problem is that the product isn't being driven by vision any longer,  but by marketing research.  This is obvious in analyzing Mass Effect's shift to Gears of War gameplay.  I'm pretty sure the vision for Mass Effect wasn't a Gears of War clone.

Mass Effect 1 went from a cover-based system to... a cover-based system in Mass Effect 2.

So not only is it appropriate to criicize,  it's *absolutely* necessary,  because if gamers don't start making their voices heard,  Marketing departments are going to kill gaming,  sooner rather than later.

You're saying that Bioware and EA is only motivated by success, but that they will be unsuccessful by not trying to be unsuccessful?

[BomimoDK]

IRMcGhee wrote...

I'm sure I'll add DA2 to my collection, I like the sound of it so far, and I don't mind that it'll have a new cast as the Warden's story is reportedly going to be completed before DA2's release.

The only Bioware PC games I haven't liked enough to buy new were the Icewind Dale series (Bioware's strength has always been their well-written characters, those games didn't really have any).

That was Black ISle that made those games. NOT bioware.

[Livemmo]

Actually no there are a few things that if put in would make me not purchase the game. You can see that I still have no Awakening icon under my name.

[BomimoDK]

Of course,  the problem is that the product isn't being driven by vision any longer,  but by marketing research.  This is obvious in analyzing Mass Effect's shift to Gears of War gameplay.  I'm pretty sure the vision for Mass Effect wasn't a Gears of War clone.

Mass Effect 1 went from a cover-based system to... a cover-based system in Mass Effect 2.

Yes, this confuses me alot. AFAIK the only thing "missing" in ME2 is gear (which i have never been able to get into in cyber games) and sidemissions.

What i don't understand is why they make a big fuss about something that was already there... hating for the sake of hating?

[Korva]

There are several "deal breakers" that would stop me from buying this, just as I had zero interest in buying Mass Effect 2 or Awakenings. It doesn't matter how much I liked a previous game or series if a new game doesn't have features that are crucial to me, or does things in a way that I see as problematic. I don't do brand-name or firm-name loyalty. A Bioware sticker on the box gets me interested on principle, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

[AloraKast]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Question: will you buy it at launch, or later on on sale? That's what it all about.

Wait and see approach.  As someone has already pointed out, at $60 it is something I will have to REALLY want, i.e. as more information about DA2 comes out, I would have to be feeling really optimistic about it to dish the money out.  And even then, I will problably wait a bit and read player reviews... if not favourable, then I am content to wait until it's in the discount bin before dishing my moneys, if at all.

My main concern here is the appearance that DA2 is heading the ME2 route.  I might have mentioned this before on another thread, but here goes again: I love DA. I love ME and ME2.  But DA and ME are different games, and I would hate for one franchise to morph into the other. Please, please, please BioWare, don't take DA2 the ME2 route!  Yes, I am feeling somewhat sad that my Warden's story will not be continuing... I was sooo looking forward to continuing her journey... and perhaps even finding out what happened to my LI, Zev!

On a semi-related note, I see that Steam is offering Awakening for $30, down from the original $40! Yey... keep it up, that way I might be able to pick it up for $20... that is, IF the new patch addresses the issues introduced with 1.03 and player reviews are favourable.

Edit: Sorry, edited a word there...

Modifié par AloraKast, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:07 .

[zazei]

I don't understand the people that start saying things like "you still love it and you will still buy it" when people complain about things prior to release. I'm not really in for charity here and don't really like to pay for things I don't enjoy. That's why Mass effect 2 is still the only Bioware game to date I havn't brought at some point and I don't think any of that is going to change.

I was going to buy the game on day one but the previews just left such a bad taste in my mouth that I decided to wait and see before. My roommate that I share my appartment with decided to buy it though so I tested that version and decided that the game was pretty horrible from my point of view and it really was enough that I didn't want to support the game. Now considering both Awakening and ME2 had some unhappy customers I'm willing to wait a part of those are not going to be willing to pay or preorder any game that looks like it is heading down the same direction.

Why would any sane person want to pay and support something they don't really like? Now I don't think everyone will leave and I think Bioware could survive without us but I'm willing to get some old Bioware fans are going to star dropping off their site sooner or later if this is the way Bioware want to do things from now on. ^^

[Deviija]

Korva wrote...

There are several "deal breakers" that would stop me from buying this, just as I had zero interest in buying Mass Effect 2 or Awakenings. It doesn't matter how much I liked a previous game or series if a new game doesn't have features that are crucial to me, or does things in a way that I see as problematic. I don't do brand-name or firm-name loyalty. A Bioware sticker on the box gets me interested on principle, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

This is a good enough answer for me as well.  So, ditto. 

I do not blindly purchase products that I do not support.  If I do not like a product, I do not give the company my money.  Simple.

[DaneWolf]

They have not let me down yet!!! I've never been upset for the lacking number of races and stuff... I allways played human anyways!!!

And Hawke is a great sirname!

It's gonna be a good enough game for me to buy anyways!

[DanteCousland]

I never said I wouldn't buy this. I assume this topic wasn't directed at me though.

[gingerbill]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

rooky91 wrote...

At first I was like everyone else annoyed with the lack of new races and all the other stuff but regardless of how we feel now we all know this game will be in our homes by this time next year. Why? Because its BIOWARE, when have they ever let you down!

Will it?
With Divinity 2: Flames of Vengeance, Gray Matter, Two Worlds 2, Dungeon Siege 3 (Maybe?), Wiedzmin 2, Fable 3, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, Civilization V, King's Bounty: Crossworlds, Drakensang 2: River of Time (and addon pack) and Fallout: New Vegas coming out, roughly, between now and then? Dragon Age 2 doesn't even have a hope of being purchased by yours truly.

no hope of you buying it ? so why you browsing the forums talking about it ? so you either got too much time on your hands or full of it

zazei wrote...

I don't understand the people that start saying things like "you still love it and you will still buy it" when people complain about things prior to release. I'm not really in for charity here and don't really like to pay for things I don't enjoy. That's why Mass effect 2 is still the only Bioware game to date I havn't brought at some point and I don't think any of that is going to change.

I was going to buy the game on day one but the previews just left such a bad taste in my mouth that I decided to wait and see before. My roommate that I share my appartment with decided to buy it though so I tested that version and decided that the game was pretty horrible from my point of view and it really was enough that I didn't want to support the game. Now considering both Awakening and ME2 had some unhappy customers I'm willing to wait a part of those are not going to be willing to pay or preorder any game that looks like it is heading down the same direction.

Why would any sane person want to pay and support something they don't really like? Now I don't think everyone will leave and I think Bioware could survive without us but I'm willing to get some old Bioware fans are going to star dropping off their site sooner or later if this is the way Bioware want to do things from now on. ^^

hahahaha , your hating and getting angry and condeming a game that nobody has even seen , lol some people.

Modifié par gingerbill, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:48 .