45 réponses à ce sujet

[ExcitedApathy]

Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster... I've been wanting to do a Ranger build but I read on the wiki that pets don't give exp on consoles when the pet lands the kill shot. Is this still true? Thanks.

[Last Darkness]

Bahanix wrote...

Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster... I've been wanting to do a Ranger build but I read on the wiki that pets don't give exp on consoles when the pet lands the kill shot. Is this still true? Thanks.

This is true but it dosnt effect the game a whole lot due to teh numerous infinete exp spot if you really feel you need to hit lvl 25.

Ranger Builds work great on almost any build but I like them more in melee characters. Ive found that ranger/Duelest works best if your a melee dps rogue and dont care about backstabing as much and Ranger/Assassin is great if your a melee dps rogue and backstab as much as possible. Plus Mark of Death from Assassin boosts everyones damage including your pets by +20%

Im currently playing a Ranger/Assassin Two hand wielding backstabing focused Rogue and its working great.

[ExcitedApathy]

Ah, very good. I was in fact thinking of doing a Ranger/Duelist. I assume I should max DEX then if not going for backstabbing? Maybe a little CUN for spotting traps and picking locks or does WIL become a problem for the summon and the melee talent spam?

[Last Darkness]

Bahanix wrote...

Ah, very good. I was in fact thinking of doing a Ranger/Duelist. I assume I should max DEX then if not going for backstabbing? Maybe a little CUN for spotting traps and picking locks or does WIL become a problem for the summon and the melee talent spam?

Depends what you wanna do, for Ranger/Duelest I would suggest going Str build since your going to be in everythings face.
I dont suggest Daggers so dont worry about Dex.
Now deicide to either go 30 Dex for all the duel wield talents you need or 36 Dex to duel wield main hand weapons.
Deicide wether you want to wear heavier armor or not and if you dont mind a lower attack score. If you want to wear heavier armor and a higher attack score put alot of points into Str, max it as much as possible. Otherwise get Str to 20 or 30 and put everything else into Cun.
I suggest getting 30  Cun as this will allow you to get all Rogue Feats and be able to Lockpick/open all doors or chests you find. But 22 Cun is fine too if you dont care about opening every single thing.
Main hand Weapon, Get Veshille Axe from Bodhan in your camp. Its the most damaging main hand weapon in that game particularly for rogues.

get Duelest at 7/8 and Ranger at 14 for best results but it dosnt matter a whole lot.

Stat wise hmm id say 60 Str, 36 Dex, 30 Cun will do good or 30 Str, 36 Dex, 60 Cun would work. It all depends how you wanna play. Those are some pretty basic numbers that covere basicaly all your bases. You can tweak as much as possible.  Your gonan wanna talent spam with your weapons.  Also dont Forget Poisons and Swift Salves.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 14 juillet 2010 - 11:12 .

[ExcitedApathy]

I hadn't thought of dual full size weapons, which is funny since I'm doing a dual full size weapon warrior. Thanks for the info/advice. I appreciate it.

[Last Darkness]

Bahanix wrote...

I hadn't thought of dual full size weapons, which is funny since I'm doing a dual full size weapon warrior. Thanks for the info/advice. I appreciate it.

No Problem, hope it helps. 
Funny thing is Daggers work better for Duel Wield Warriors while Full Size weapons work better for Rogues due to how their skills and class spec bonuses work.

Rangers alot of fun, Wolf, bear and Spider.

[soteria]

I read on the wiki that pets don't give exp on consoles when the pet lands the kill shot.

Has anyone actually confirmed that? Kills from pets DO give experience on the PC, which is only confirmed by mousing over the experience bar and watching it when a pet kills an enemy. There's no floaty text to tell you of the experience gained, and I know for a long time people made the same claim for the PC.

My question is, what are people basing this "pet kills don't give exp on consoles" thing on? Is it only the lack of floaty text, which doesn't appear on the PC, either? If so, I question it.

[Homebound]

whats the best second job for an Archer Rogue with all his stats in Dex?

[Gnoster]

Hmm... sounds like a fun build. Maybe one should make a Dalish Elf ranger after my current HNM has dispatched Alistair and taken the throne :-)

[ExcitedApathy]

@ soteria - my thoughts exactly. Looks like I will have to do experimenting once I finish my HN dual wield warrior.



@ Just_Mike - I would think Duelist if only for +atk from Dueling. I did an Rogue Archer Bard/Ranger but I never used the pets just talent spam and auto-attack.

[Random70]

Last Darkness wrote...
Funny thing is Daggers work better for Duel Wield Warriors while Full Size weapons work better for Rogues due to how their skills and class spec bonuses work.

You're kidding, right?

[Last Darkness]

soteria wrote...

I read on
the wiki that pets don't give exp on consoles when the pet lands the
kill shot.

Has anyone actually confirmed that? Kills
from pets DO give experience on the PC, which is only confirmed by
mousing over the experience bar and watching it when a pet kills an
enemy. There's no floaty text to tell you of the experience gained, and I
know for a long time people made the same claim for the PC.
My
question is, what are people basing this "pet kills don't give exp on
consoles" thing on? Is it only the lack of floaty text, which doesn't
appear on the PC, either? If so, I question it.

On  PS3 
and  360 
pet kills do not yield experience points. However as of patch v1.02,
this is no longer an issue on the  PC .
  Of course this only applies if the pet gets the killing blow.

Just_mike wrote...

whats the best second job for an Archer
Rogue with all his stats in Dex?

Depends what your first job was, unless you have a decent Cun attribute I dont suggest Bard.
really give this a read. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Archery:_An_Efficient_Approach

Gnoster wrote...

Hmm... sounds like a fun build. Maybe one
should make a Dalish Elf ranger after my current HNM has dispatched
Alistair and taken the throne :-)

The Dahlish are ok, its just they are the one truly neutral Origen in the game I swear. None of the locations or deicisions really affects them like the other Origens do.

Random70 wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...
Funny
thing is Daggers work better for Duel Wield Warriors while Full Size
weapons work better for Rogues due to how their skills and class spec
bonuses work.

You're kidding, right?

Unfortunetly no, its simply a matter of how the classes mechanics work. Rogues really do the best damage with a fullsize weapons and warriors do insane damage with daggers.
Explaination- Rogues are really build around doing backstabs as much as possible, Daggers are the worst weapons in game to be backstabbing with and with how duel wield works it actuay reduces your damage backstabing. Its been talked about many times on the forums but rogues do far superior backstab damage with a fullsize main hand and shield. Its simply a mechanic of how the abilities work. For example Daggers take half your Str and Dex and add that number together then only use 85% of it to calculate addional damage, then when your duel wielding your offhand does around -50% damage and when you backstab the actual mechanic has you switch weapons each attack despite the animation so your doing reduced damage every other attack.
Warriors benefit from daggers though because they dont backstab and just stand there meleeing, stacking high dex increases their defense which benefits this fighting style even more. Add to that the fact that two of the warrior classes add damage per hit, Berserk add+8 damage per hit and Blood Frenzy can add up to +10 damage per hit, with Runes and poisons on a Dagger Duel Wield Warrior you not only have a extremly high dps rate (Dont forget Momentum Stacks with Blood Thirst so you can have +50% attack speed all the time) but also a high survivability.
Look at the synergy this would apply to a Berserker/Champion. You can have a duel wield dagger warrior tank no problem.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 15 juillet 2010 - 07:48 .

[soteria]

On PS3 and 360 pet kills do not yield experience points. However as of patch v1.02, this is no longer an issue on the PC. Of course this only applies if the pet gets the killing blow.

I've heard this said before, but I don't believe it's true. You can look at the patch notes for 1.02 (or any patch) and see that experience for pet kills has never come up in any patch. My theory is that someone had been making the claim that "pet kills don't give exp" for a long time, and, when confronted with evidence to the contrary, just said, "well, they must have changed it in the last patch, then." It's not unheard of for bugfixes to not get listed in patch notes, but I find it unlikely. And, if that were the case, how would anyone know it was fixed in 1.02 and not some other patch?

Explaination- Rogues are really build around doing backstabs as much as possible, Daggers are the worst weapons in game to be backstabbing with and with how duel wield works it actuay reduces your damage backstabing. Its been talked about many times on the forums but rogues do far superior backstab damage with a fullsize main hand and shield. Its simply a mechanic of how the abilities work. For example Daggers take half your Str and Dex and add that number together then only use 85% of it to calculate addional damage, then when your duel wielding your offhand does around -50% damage and when you backstab the actual mechanic has you switch weapons each attack despite the animation so your doing reduced damage every other attack.

I have a feeling Random70 might just respond with actual numbers to this since he's done fairly extensive research on this subject, but I'll respond to this as well. In terms of autoattack damage, rogues are best off using dual daggers for a variety of reasons. First and most obvious, daggers benefit most from the various weapon buffs, including the poisons that a rogue has easy access to. Second, daggers are the best items in the game to backstab with because of how they're itemized. +% critical/backstab damage is reasonably easy to get on a dagger, but is less common on full-sized weapons. Not only that, but some daggers already do comparable damage to full-sized weapons. Third, large weapons require strength to wield, and if a rogue wants to pick up certain talents and open locks, he needs 30 cunning to do it. That's more damage per swing lost. Fourth, the second assassin talent gives a bonus to damage based on cunning, and the Warden's Keep talent is also based on cunning. That gives a backstabbing rogue a lot of compelling reasons to raise cunning if he wants to do high damage, and raising strength just to use large weapons weakens the build since the game only takes the higher of strength and cunning. I don't know why you mentioned thatt he off-hand weapon gets a penalty to damage, since that hurts anyone that wants to dual wield.

Warriors benefit from daggers though because they dont backstab and just stand there meleeing, stacking high dex increases their defense which benefits this fighting style even more. Add to that the fact that two of the warrior classes add damage per hit, Berserk add+8 damage per hit and Blood Frenzy can add up to +10 damage per hit, with Runes and poisons on a Dagger Duel Wield Warrior you not only have a extremly high dps rate (Dont forget Momentum Stacks with Blood Thirst so you can have +50% attack speed all the time) but also a high survivability.

In response to this, I'll note that stacking high dex is handy for anyone. Second, your argument could be applied to rogues, as well: they have talents that give a flat bonus to each attack, as well, making faster weapons more valuable. There's really not much to respond to in this paragraph: it can be summed up by saying, "Flat damage bonuses benefit faster weapons more than slower weapons." The question is, "Does that make up for their lower damage and inferior damage scaling?" The answer is, "No." Take a look at your own comments about why rogues should use large weapons to see why that is. Daggers scale more poorly with stats than swords/axes.

[Random70]

Last Darkness wrote...

Random70 wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...
Funny thing is Daggers work better for Duel Wield Warriors while Full Size
weapons work better for Rogues due to how their skills and class spec
bonuses work.

You're kidding, right?

Unfortunetly no, its simply a matter of how the classes mechanics work. Rogues really do the best damage with a fullsize weapons and warriors do insane damage with daggers.
Explaination- Rogues are really build around doing backstabs as much as possible, Daggers are the worst weapons in game to be backstabbing with and with how duel wield works it actuay reduces your damage backstabing. Its been talked about many times on the forums but rogues do far superior backstab damage with a fullsize main hand and shield. Its simply a mechanic of how the abilities work. For example Daggers take half your Str and Dex and add that number together then only use 85% of it to calculate addional damage, then when your duel wielding your offhand does around -50% damage and when you backstab the actual mechanic has you switch weapons each attack despite the animation so your doing reduced damage every other attack.
Warriors benefit from daggers though because they dont backstab and just stand there meleeing, stacking high dex increases their defense which benefits this fighting style even more. Add to that the fact that two of the warrior classes add damage per hit, Berserk add+8 damage per hit and Blood Frenzy can add up to +10 damage per hit, with Runes and poisons on a Dagger Duel Wield Warrior you not only have a extremly high dps rate (Dont forget Momentum Stacks with Blood Thirst so you can have +50% attack speed all the time) but also a high survivability.
Look at the synergy this would apply to a Berserker/Champion. You can have a duel wield dagger warrior tank no problem.

I'm well aware of the capabilities of a DW Dagger warrior. I wrote an extremely lengthy breakdown of it's (and other warriors) potential elsewhere. Your statement concerning Rogues and large weapons however is totally incorrect.

*Does DW have an offhand penalty? Yes - until it's negated with DW Training
*Do DW Daggers have less attribute scaling? Yes - but who cares? Their speed makes up for it and then some.

Don't believe me?
L23 HN Assasin / Duelist,  STR build, No Runes / Poisons

Average Backstab:
Rose / Edge: 65.29
Starfang / Veshaille: 86.28
CGM: 142.18

Holy crap! Rogues should CGM at all times! Yeah, except...

Swing time:
DW Dag: .7 (w / Mom)
DW Large: 1.2 (w / Mom)
CGM: 2.55

Damage over 4 seconds: (duration of Dirty Fighting)
Rose / Edge: 372.81
Star / Vesh: 287.31
CGM: 223.22

Dual Daggers has a 30% advantage over dual large and 67% over CGM. Now add 3x GM Runes...
Rose / Edge: 458.46
Star / Vesh: 337.26
CGM: 246.77

Dual Daggers increases it's lead over Star / Vesh to 36% and over CGM to 86% - and the more buffs you add, the bigger the gap becomes. I didn't bother to test, but Vesh + shield will be only slightly better than CGM.

[ExcitedApathy]

Random70 - your tests are very well done. In fact, the warrior assessment guide you posted got me to make my current dual full size weapon human noble warrior (currently lv 14 w/Starfang and Aodh tilll I get enough for Veshialle).



It looks like for this Ranger build I should get enough STR for the armor I want (probably 20), DEX to 32 or so, then max CUN and take Lethality and get all backstabby. I imagine the pet issue really won't be much of an issue since everyone will be dead real quick-like.

[Last Darkness]

@Soteria You make a good point, ill admit when im wroung. Though I must still state does it really matter if pets negate XP or not? really I wouldnt even care since this isnt happening 100% of the time if its happening at all.



@Random70 those numbers dont work for me due to the fact they are not the scenario I described. Also post relevant Str, Dex and Cun scores with those builds. I dont have the option of respecing characters to post my own data so Humour me if you will.

Test a optimum duel wield dagger build with listed stats and gear doing only backstabs.

Put that up against a optimum gear and stats Vashialle Axe MH, with a shield offhand all setup for maximum backstab potential.

Show me those numbers, then do the same test applying other party members abilities for optimum conditions. Like Haste and Double Haste and elemental damage bonuses, and debuffs etc.

After I see all that I think we can confirm whats best, the problem with all your data collection is that most, not all but most dosnt factor in other party members and assumes the character is going to be fighting alone 100% of the time. Your data is almost all based on a baseline or control without all possible variables.



Prove me Wroung and Ill accept and apologise.



@Bahanix, being one of the few to actualy answer you I hope ive helped.

[soteria]

Last Darkness, haste, double haste, and all those other attack speed buffs are irrelevant. They buff all builds equally. Other than the numbers Random70 just posted, Discobird's calculations are worth referring to. They pretty clearly show dagger/dagger leading in damage over the fullsized variants. Using his numbers, even if you add 20% more damage to the sword/axe str build for a higher hit rating, it's still lagging behind.

What exactly is the relevance of what the other party members are doing? Are you talking about bard songs and other party buffs? The more buffs you add, the better dagger/dagger cunning starts to look. Rally and miasma offset lower attack, and song of courage and flaming weapons benefit daggers more than swords.

[ExcitedApathy]

Absolutely Last Darkness. I still haven't decided on exactly how I'm going to do the build yet; this debate has a lot of info to consider. I appreciate all the input.

[Last Darkness]

soteria wrote...

Last Darkness, haste, double haste, and all those other attack speed buffs are irrelevant. They buff all builds equally. Other than the numbers Random70 just posted, Discobird's calculations are worth referring to. They pretty clearly show dagger/dagger leading in damage over the fullsized variants. Using his numbers, even if you add 20% more damage to the sword/axe str build for a higher hit rating, it's still lagging behind.
What exactly is the relevance of what the other party members are doing? Are you talking about bard songs and other party buffs? The more buffs you add, the better dagger/dagger cunning starts to look. Rally and miasma offset lower attack, and song of courage and flaming weapons benefit daggers more than swords.

Im trying really hard not to be offensive about this. The Fact remains that those numbers are not accurate do to the simple fact that scientific process requires a Baseline or Control set of Data. Then you start applying all possible variables, after that the total number data will be the "Most" correct it can be (There will always be very small variences).  Just posting one set of numbers is not really useful and downright amateur. Also when you argue someones theory/statement then post data that dosnt include the specifics they were talking about, well that just makes me laugh.
Im specificaly stating for a pure backstab build (Ideal all attacks are 100% backstabs) on a Rogue my theory well call it is that you will kill an enemy faster with a single main hand weapon then you will with duel wield daggers. Not just using self buffs but taking into effect party buffs as well.  Read my words, im not talking what will do the most damage over a longer duration of time which im pretty sure daggers would do. Im stating what would kill the target first. Using no attack skills and just auto attack animations for backstabs. Also specificaly using the Veshialle Axe. I will admit when im wroung but there is no data posted so far that proves one way or another.
Good Math always beats bad math, dont make assumptions or use pseudo-science. I really wish I had the PC version so I could post my own numbers to make it easier, the fact still remains we have NO real sources of absolutly accurate information on these forums at all because in almost 100% of posted data its just baseline control and then differences in gear and self cast abilities. This is not accurate information, its like having half of a computer programs code and then expexting it to run. Unless all possibilities and variables are accounted for its all inacurate conjectiure (Though it would work if you only played solo wardens and never used other party members and only certain difficulty settings)

Prove me wroung, correctly. Otherwise dont say anything at all.

[Last Darkness]

Bahanix wrote...

Absolutely Last Darkness. I still haven't decided on exactly how I'm going to do the build yet; this debate has a lot of info to consider. I appreciate all the input.

I suggest Duelest/Ranger at first, its easier to play as and very viable. You dont always have to position yourself optimaly and such and can just duke it out and rely on stuns and your sweet duelest 100% crit rate for like 15 seconds ability.  Unless you want to use wolf or bear for looks, Spider can often be a better choice due to its ability to web for a extra crowd control and giving you an extra ability where you can do automatic crits.
Put a Paralysis rune in each weapon and really try and use stun poisons and youll be fine. Also keep in mind having someone who can use herbalism to craft Swift salves will help too since they stack with momentum. Also to conserve points you only need 3 Herbalism on one character to craft Swift Salve and most the useful stuff, same thing with poison. You only need Poison making  3 to craft the best stun poison.(Concentrated Crow Poison - Deals 6 nature damage, with a 15% chance of causing a 7 s stun, per hit.
This effect cannot be applied over itself.)
You only need poison 1 on your main character to use poisons, so if you train leilana or zevran to poison 3 they can craft it for you. This setup lets you deal critical damage as much as possible I would think fo the simplest effort. Also dont forget if you have a mage in the party try and get "Paralyze" from the entropy tree. Setup a tactic for that mage that goes something like. "Target of Warden - Cast Paralyze" So that they will always cast that spell on who your targeting so you can get even more free hits of critical damage.

[soteria]

Im trying really hard not to be offensive about this. The Fact remains that those numbers are not accurate do to the simple fact that scientific process requires a Baseline or Control set of Data. Then you start applying all possible variables, after that the total number data will be the "Most" correct it can be (There will always be very small variences). Just posting one set of numbers is not really useful and downright amateur. Also when you argue someones theory/statement then post data that dosnt include the specifics they were talking about, well that just makes me laugh.

I believe you're confusing two concepts. All that really needs to be done is to collect and analyze the relevant data, not conduct a scientific experiment. I find it interesting that you mockingly comment that the link "doesn't include the specifics" when in fact it goes into great detail. In any case, I believe the burden of proof is on you. Random70 has been kind enough to post numbers from tests in-game, and I posted a link to some theorycraft for pure backstab builds. You can pooh-pooh those numbers all you want, but if you want your theory to be taken credibly then you better do more than claim we aren't accounting for all the data.

Beyond the fact that it's on you to disprove what has been established and accepted for quite some time now, I'm really not willing to even try to do a test to match your criteria, since you've displayed an inclination to just dismiss off-hand any tests that don't match the results you expect--that, and I'm not even sure what the criteria are.  First you said that a rogue should wield two large weapons, but now you're saying he should just wield Veshialle and that's it.  You keep on bringing up party buffs, but those are accounted for since we know what they are and what they do, and none of them benefit larger, slower weapons more than they do faster weapons.

Modifié par soteria, 16 juillet 2010 - 08:59 .

[Random70]

Last Darkness wrote...

soteria wrote...

Last Darkness, haste, double haste, and all those other attack speed buffs are irrelevant. They buff all builds equally. Other than the numbers Random70 just posted, Discobird's calculations are worth referring to. They pretty clearly show dagger/dagger leading in damage over the fullsized variants. Using his numbers, even if you add 20% more damage to the sword/axe str build for a higher hit rating, it's still lagging behind.
What exactly is the relevance of what the other party members are doing? Are you talking about bard songs and other party buffs? The more buffs you add, the better dagger/dagger cunning starts to look. Rally and miasma offset lower attack, and song of courage and flaming weapons benefit daggers more than swords.

Im trying really hard not to be offensive about this. The Fact remains that those numbers are not accurate do to the simple fact that scientific process requires a Baseline or Control set of Data. Then you start applying all possible variables, after that the total number data will be the "Most" correct it can be (There will always be very small variences).  Just posting one set of numbers is not really useful and downright amateur. Also when you argue someones theory/statement then post data that dosnt include the specifics they were talking about, well that just makes me laugh.
Im specificaly stating for a pure backstab build (Ideal all attacks are 100% backstabs) on a Rogue my theory well call it is that you will kill an enemy faster with a single main hand weapon then you will with duel wield daggers. Not just using self buffs but taking into effect party buffs as well.  Read my words, im not talking what will do the most damage over a longer duration of time which im pretty sure daggers would do. Im stating what would kill the target first. Using no attack skills and just auto attack animations for backstabs. Also specificaly using the Veshialle Axe. I will admit when im wroung but there is no data posted so far that proves one way or another.
Good Math always beats bad math, dont make assumptions or use pseudo-science. I really wish I had the PC version so I could post my own numbers to make it easier, the fact still remains we have NO real sources of absolutly accurate information on these forums at all because in almost 100% of posted data its just baseline control and then differences in gear and self cast abilities. This is not accurate information, its like having half of a computer programs code and then expexting it to run. Unless all possibilities and variables are accounted for its all inacurate conjectiure (Though it would work if you only played solo wardens and never used other party members and only certain difficulty settings)

Prove me wroung, correctly. Otherwise dont say anything at all.

Very well, I'll make one last attempt at clarifying what should be a glaringly obvious concept.

* Notice the above numbers say 'Avg Backstab'? Only backstabs were tracked - no talents

* Control group? Well lets see - builds were the same, gear was the same, enemies were the same. Only weapons changed, which is the whole point of this argument. To be specific...
Duel Dagger Stats: Str 87, Dex 42 (30 base), Cunning 30 (24 base)
Duel Large Stats: Str 83, Dex 49 (36 base), Cunning 30 (24 base)
2H Maul Stats: Str 87, Dex 40 (30 base), Cunning 30 (24 base)
Gear: Honnleath, WC Armor, Anduril's, Spellward, Key, Wicked Oath, Weaponry as noted
Enemies: RtO, Bann Loren's soldiers, Darkspawn through Forgemaster

* I did not test S/S / Vesh as it isn't necessary to do so. Nor do I have much interest in comprehensively testing substandard Rogue builds. As a Backstab is essentially an optimized auto attack, check the Auto Attack section of my Warrior Damage thread to see how S/S & 2H builds compare.

* What would kill the target first? Unless you're one-shotting your target, damage per swing *Does Not Matter*, thus the only measurement that makes sense is damage over time.

* Dirty Fighting 4 sec. interval was chosen as that is a Rogue's 'go to' talent. You know - stun enemy, get 4 seconds of free backstabs w/ Coup de Grace?

* Party Buffs? I had assumed that the scaling progression was blisteringly self-evident but alas, it appears that I was mistaken. I'll try one more time...

To take the two opposite ends of the spectrum from above:

DW Dagger - Avg Backstab: 65.29, Swing Time: 1.0 sec (no momentum), DOT: 261.16
2H Maul - Avg Backstab: 142.18, Swing Time: 2.55 sec, DOT: 223.22

In the 4 second interval, the Dagger build is hitting 4 times, the maul 1.57 times. Ignoring for the moment that the DW build isn't using one of it's strongest abilities, it already has a 17% lead.

Now apply double Haste (-.5 sec, maximum speed increase).
The Maul now has a swing time of 2.05 seconds, hitting 1.95 times for 277.25 damage in 4 seconds.
The Dagger build now has an ultra-fast .5 second swing time and is hitting eight times for 522.32 in four seconds, an advantage of 88%

Now add damage buffs: SoC (+10), 3x GM Runes (+15), Flaming Weapons (+20), Frost Weapons (+10) for a total of +55 damage per Swing.
The 2X Hasted Maul applies that damage 1.95 times for a 107.25 bonus - Total Damage 384.5
The 2X Hasted Daggers apply that damage 8.0 times for a 440.00 bonus - Total Damage 962.32

The DW Dagger build now has a 150% lead over the Maul. It shouldn't be necessary to add Poisons to further illustrate this point.

As Samuel L. Jackson would say " It ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same M**** F**** sport"

Modifié par Random70, 16 juillet 2010 - 09:30 .

[soteria]

Very well said. I think it's worth pointing out that in that 4sec interval, the dagger/dagger build has killed his enemy, but the 2h maul build hasn't, based on the hp numbers that beancounter gathered.

[ExcitedApathy]

Last Darkness wrote...

Bahanix wrote...

Absolutely Last Darkness. I still haven't decided on exactly how I'm going to do the build yet; this debate has a lot of info to consider. I appreciate all the input.

I suggest Duelest/Ranger at first, its easier to play as and very viable. You dont always have to position yourself optimaly and such and can just duke it out and rely on stuns and your sweet duelest 100% crit rate for like 15 seconds ability.  Unless you want to use wolf or bear for looks, Spider can often be a better choice due to its ability to web for a extra crowd control and giving you an extra ability where you can do automatic crits.
Put a Paralysis rune in each weapon and really try and use stun poisons and youll be fine. Also keep in mind having someone who can use herbalism to craft Swift salves will help too since they stack with momentum. Also to conserve points you only need 3 Herbalism on one character to craft Swift Salve and most the useful stuff, same thing with poison. You only need Poison making  3 to craft the best stun poison.(Concentrated Crow Poison - Deals 6 nature damage, with a 15% chance of causing a 7 s stun, per hit.
This effect cannot be applied over itself.)
You only need poison 1 on your main character to use poisons, so if you train leilana or zevran to poison 3 they can craft it for you. This setup lets you deal critical damage as much as possible I would think fo the simplest effort. Also dont forget if you have a mage in the party try and get "Paralyze" from the entropy tree. Setup a tactic for that mage that goes something like. "Target of Warden - Cast Paralyze" So that they will always cast that spell on who your targeting so you can get even more free hits of critical damage.

I have never really used Herbalism or Poison-making in any playthrough. Of course, out of the 4 characters I've beat the game with, only 1 could have used it. That was a Rogue Archer. All other games have been Arcane Warriors (love that class). I think that this could be a good time as any to try those skills.

Any suggestions on race? I was thinking City Elf for Fang later on or a Dwarf Noble for 100 soverigns after the origin. (at least that's what I've read anyway. Never completed that quest that way).

[soteria]

Fang really isn't that great. It's a decent weapon, but by the time you get it you'll almost certainly have better. Dwarf noble is good for money, yes, and dwarves also get 10% magic resistance, but on the downside you can't use lyrium veins in the fade. All rogues get the same starting talents, but the skills vary: coercion (city elf) stealing (dwarf commoner) survival (dalish) and combat training (either noble). Also, from a powergaming perspective the human and dwarf origins are better because they start with better stats--if you're worried about 2 or 3 stat points.

Now, this is all assuming you're only worried about choosing the "best" race from a gameplay POV rather than just what origin you enjoy most.