1480 réponses à ce sujet

[Luminus]

The Fred wrote...

Quayle would make sense as a Bard I guess, but there are already two other Bards in the game.

Just like there are 5 Mages, 7 Fighters and 7/8 Thieves (if you Dual Shar-Teel). Adding a third Bard won't change anything and everyone fills a different role actually.

Garrick is the classic bard.
Eldoth is the warrior, Blade, Bard. (High STR and CON, I suggest giving him medium armor and Battlecaster feats)
And Quayle should be the skillmonkey (High INT Loremaster) Bard.

[Shallina]

NPC that will have new class will probably have a "not existing" class among the existing hanchmen.

Minsc will be the barbarian, Kivan will be the ranger, one of the wiz will be a sorcerer. One of the rogue will be a swachbuckler, each wizard will have access to a different PRC. Pure Fighter will have access to different PRC.

We'll try to make all of them unique and cool so the player will want to take each of them. Each compagnion will have a feature that will give a good  reason to take her/him instead of an other one.

There won't be a : I don't need Alora beceause I a l ready got Safana.

There will be a : damn Alora so cool, she can do this and that and only her can do it, but if I replace Safana, I'll loose this and that that only Safana can do.

Modifié par Shallina, 07 juillet 2011 - 10:26 .

[Luminus]

Shallina wrote...

You won't be able to choose class at will in default BGR, imoen as a fighter ? Kagain as a Wizard?

No way. NPC will have a set of possible class, and some of them will have choice, for exemple imoen, rogue/wizard/arcanne trickeser. Edwin wizard/Redwizard

Other won't have choice for Exemple Coran alternating between Fighter and thief at each lvl. They aren't the player character, they are compagnion and got a will on their own.

Wich mean, if someone want a BGR a little different, he'll just have to open the toolset and modify it to her/his taste.

Yeah but noone in their right mind would multiclass Imoen to Fighter or Kagain to Wizard or any other bad combinations.

They aren't the player character but you could Dual Imoen and Shar-Teel at any level you wanted and it was your choice, there was no dialogue involved to change them. Would Shar-Teel really want to be a weak Thief for example?

On the other hand Shar-Teel would be great for the Thug class and Medium/ Heavy Armor. Brutal Sneak Attacks with Fighter BAB and HD, looks alot like Shar-Teel.

And not everyone knows how to tinker with the toolset. Some people never even opened the toolset. I'm just suggesting some flexibility but it's your game.

Modifié par Luminus, 07 juillet 2011 - 10:42 .

[The Fred]

Luminus wrote...
Just like there are 5 Mages, 7 Fighters and 7/8 Thieves (if you Dual Shar-Teel). Adding a third Bard won't change anything and everyone fills a different role actually.

Who are these mysterious NPCs? I count four Mages (Quayle as a Cleric/Mage is a whole different kettle of fish, and if you make him a Bard he's not a Mage any more) and three Fighters (admittedly there are two Fighter/Thieves but I'm not sure I'd count these, and I'd certainly not count Jaheira and Yeslick who are priests first and fighters second - maybe the Warpriest or Divine Champion classes for these?)

Shallina wrote...
You won't be able to choose class at will in default BGR, imoen as a fighter ? Kagain as a Wizard?

Imoen has a Strength of 9, so she'd make a pretty poor Fighter unless she was an archer. Kagain has 15 Int, but I imagine that you're adjusting the stats for 3rd Ed rules? That would probably leave him as something of a sub-par Wizard. Obviously there has to be something of a judgment call made, though. Making Minsc a Barbarian, Xan a Sorcerer and even Tiax a Warlock all make sense in the transition to 3rd Ed rules. Allowing people free multiclassing also makes sense under 3rd Ed, but the original game was a lot more constrictive as far as classes went, so keeping that restriction would keep in the spirit of it. I guess as long as it's easy to change, that's OK. Will we be able to level them up, though, chosing feats and skills and things? Also, are you keeping all the NPC special abilities?

[Shallina]

Of course the lvl up process is the standar dlvl up process.

Exept they won't always lvl in the same class. And for some of them you ll be able to ask for a different class in a convo before the lvling like it was done in NWN1 XP1. You speak to Imoen ask her to lvl as a wizard. And next time you hit the lvl up screen for Imoen you'll have a lvl ing up in a wizard class instead of a rogue.

Why not opening all the class for everyone ? beceause if we do that there is no need to make those 20+ compagnion, 5 would be more than enought.

a hencmen or compagnion isn't the player character, it's an indivdual that help you beceause he has an interest in it.

If you want to lvl up a full custom party just use the SOZ party creation.

If you choose to play the game with henchmen and compagnion, know that henchment aren't "yours", but that they only stick with you for a while,a nd they got a will on their own with quest of their own as well.

And if you displease them they 'll leave you.

Modifié par Shallina, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:39 .

[Luminus]

The Fred wrote...

Who are these mysterious NPCs? I count four Mages (Quayle as a Cleric/Mage is a whole different kettle of fish, and if you make him a Bard he's not a Mage any more) and three Fighters (admittedly there are two Fighter/Thieves but I'm not sure I'd count these, and I'd certainly not count Jaheira and Yeslick who are priests first and fighters second - maybe the Warpriest or Divine Champion classes for these?)

Allowing people free multiclassing also makes sense under 3rd Ed, but the original game was a lot more constrictive as far as classes went, so keeping that restriction would keep in the spirit of it.

I was actually talking about the original game and yes I did count both single and multiclasses. A Fighter/Thief is still 50% Fighter and 50% Thief at Level 1, no more Fighter or more Thief.

The original game was based on ADnD which was really restrictive on multiclassing. Why should we keep the restrictions in 3E?

[Shallina]

They aren't the player. And got a will on their own, and they have a clear idea of what they want to be.

4 of them are in your party only to keep a close watch on you, and make a negativ rapport to get you killed if you start doing evil things.

The drow only travel with you for safety on the surface, she find herself to much vulnerable alone.

Most of the evil one stick with you only for wealth or increasing their own power.

And the neutral one are with you only for a bagain, you help them with something and in return they help you.

Modifié par Shallina, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:58 .

[Luminus]

Hmm then you think you could include an optional download that allows free multiclassing or changes the world map and/or other small changes?

[Shallina]

if we are courageous we may include a SOZ party creator at the begining for full custom party for those who wants it.

[kamal_]

Minsc being a barbarian is silly. Minsc is a ranger in BG1 despite barbarian being an available class and thus choice for Bio to have made. And he remains one in BG2 despite some revisions to the classes of other companions (eg Imoen). Furthermore, he specifically says he's a ranger in game conversations (specifically Rashemar Ranger). He also has his animal companion.

If anything "full plate and packing steel" means he's taken a level of fighter, not barb. I suppose you could claim he's taken a barb level as well, but only in the very first room of bg2 does he ever potentially exhibit barb rage.

[Shallina]

Minsc is a ranger in BG1 beceause Barbarian didn't exit in BG1.

But Minsc is a witch of rahsaman protector. And witch protector are Barbarian.

Rangr is also 1d8 hp, and paper tank in light armor without dmg reduction. Minsc is the "official good aligned" main tank of Baldur's gate 1 and 2, and this role can't be done by a ranger in 3ed DnD.

Barbarian of NWN2 is the  "tank Ranger" of BG1.

Modifié par Shallina, 07 juillet 2011 - 01:24 .

[Luminus]

kamal_ wrote...

Minsc being a barbarian is silly. Minsc is a ranger in BG1 despite barbarian being an available class and thus choice for Bio to have made. And he remains one in BG2 despite some revisions to the classes of other companions (eg Imoen). Furthermore, he specifically says he's a ranger in game conversations (specifically Rashemar Ranger). He also has his animal companion.

If anything "full plate and packing steel" means he's taken a level of fighter, not barb. I suppose you could claim he's taken a barb level as well, but only in the very first room of bg2 does he ever potentially exhibit barb rage.

Most Rashemi are Barbarians (males) or Sorcereses/Cleric (Females).

From Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Page 203:
"Its [Rashemen] men are berserkers..."
"Faerun knows Rashemen as the Land of Berserkers..."

And from Unapproachable East page 139:
"Unlike most other countries, the standard leader or elite member of an army is not a fighter but a barbarian"

There was no Barbarian or Berserker in BG1, these were included in BG2. Also Barbarian is a class that was introduced in 3E.

A Barbarian could take Heavy Armor proficiency and be in "Full Plate and packing steel".

The closest thing to a warrior of the wild was a Ranger in BG1, so they made him a Ranger with Berzerk.

Further proof that he is not really a Ranger but THINKS he is:
he has Berserk
his Wisdom is too low, so he can't choose Ranger legally
he thinks Boo is his "animal companion", it could be a random hamster.
Let's not forget that Minsc was hit hard in the head so he could be saying and believing anything.

They didn't change his class to Barbarian or Berserker for continuity reasons. Imoen just dual-classed at level 7 which is believable, they didn't simply change her starting class to Mage.

Modifié par Luminus, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:04 .

[The Fred]

Minsc could be a Fighter/Frenzied Beserker I guess, but as Shallina and Luminus said he was only a Ranger because Beserker/Barbarian didn't exist. Miniature Super Giant Space Hamster is also not a legal animal companion choice, that and Natural Bond would be way overpowered.

Shallina it sounds like you've already got the multiclassing sorted with your own system, but if you do want to check out my script, I've just uploaded it to the Vault (though at the time of writing it's not been approved yet).

[Dorateen]

Shallina wrote...

if we are courageous we may include a SOZ party creator at the begining for full custom party for those who wants it.

Yes, that would be great.

Harumph!

[Squire]

Shallina wrote...

Exept they won't always lvl in the same class. And for some of them you ll be able to ask for a different class in a convo before the lvling like it was done in NWN1 XP1. You speak to Imoen ask her to lvl as a wizard. And next time you hit the lvl up screen for Imoen you'll have a lvl ing up in a wizard class instead of a rogue.

This gives me a random idea: if you're adding that conversation tree anyway, why not spice it up with a little RP? For example, the conversation could go something like:

You: "Have you ever considered learning magic?"
Imoen: "Me? A wizard? I dunno, it looks very complicated...and without a tutor?"
You: "You're a smart girl, if anyone can pull it off, you can."
Imoen: "Alright, I'll give it a try..."

Not those exact words, obviously, but something a little more interesting than "I want you to level up as a wizard!".

Unless you were planning to do something like that anyway...in which case, ignore this post!

[Shallina]

Baldur's gate is the story of Gorion ward, a lvl 1 not even adventurer that is thrown to the wolf, and to complete his journey, and in order survive, he/her will find compagnion that will help her/him for their own reason or for a price, and those person have their own agenda.

Baldur's gate isn't a story about an adventurer band wich is a fellow ship and will nevers part away and will stomp roll everything.

And if you know the end of the story at the end of TOB, you'll know that the story can only be about the main char.

And beceause of this, a full custom adventurer band, or custom compagnion even if allowed, isn't at all in the spirit of the game.

We'll make the story that is supposed to be played with a lvl 1, that is alone at the begining as close as we can of the original feeling of the game.

And all the rest like a custom band of adventurer and other thing will be bonus we might do if we have time or the motivation or if we find an interest in it.


As for the convo RP line for switching class, they al ready exist in the orignal game. Imoen has many line about wanting to become a wizard. In BG1 or BG2. She is made to be dual classed in a wizard in the original game.
And in BG2 you got her dual classed at lvl 7.

In original game if you dual classed at lvl 7 as rogue you could lvl up her to lvl 8 in wizard.

It's not the story of the lvl 30 knight captain that will team up with lvl 30 full custom compagnion and stomp roll lvl  2 wolf.

Modifié par Shallina, 07 juillet 2011 - 03:45 .

[The Fred]

Shallina wrote...
Baldur's gate isn't a story about an adventurer band wich is a fellow ship and will nevers part away and will stomp roll everything.
...
And beceause of this, a full custom adventurer band, or custom compagnion even if allowed, isn't at all in the spirit of the game.

You could play with a fully created party in BG via multiplayer (you could create a party in multiplayer even by yourself, and then move the save to the single player saves. The manual even told you you could play multiplayer offline to make a party if you wanted). The fluff was your chums were childhood friends who grew up in Candlekeep with you (like Imoen). Yeah it was more for people to enjoy rather than being the main intent of the game, I guess, but you could stomp roll L2 wolves with a min.maxed party if you wanted to. Hell, in BG you could stomp roll everything with a solo Fighter/Cleric/Mage.

That said, the big thing about the companions in BG was the stats. In 2nd Ed rules there are no feats, no skill points etc, so there's a lot less to optimise. You just had to reroll your stats until you got 3-4 18s and you were good to go.

[Shallina]

Should we do a predownload pack with a +20 sword of doom and a + 15 unbreakable armor that give immunity to every spell and auto lvl you to lvl 30 ? To award powergaming since it seems it's the most important thing when we read the comments.

Modifié par Shallina, 07 juillet 2011 - 06:51 .

[-Semper-]

powergaming isn't about cheating with precreated items

i can understand both sides. the good thing is the content ain't locked and it should not take long after the first mods of the mod will be available for those who are not able to work with the toolset.

[kamal_]

Coop multiplayer was a designated feature of BG, so I'm not sure I understand the "it's evil min/maxing doomswords!!!" given that party creation was included in the original. Adding SoZ party creation is simple.

[Shallina]

I am sorry but loadind char above lvl entry, or hitting with a full customised party with 0 possible flows is in the same package.

What s the point of the 20 + NPC if you can make them all perfect ?

Just make the 5 first.

Modifié par Shallina, 07 juillet 2011 - 07:36 .

[Luminus]

Well even if you don't include SOZ party creation, there are various mods than you can download and throw in the override folder to give you that freedom any time you want.
It's basically an entry in the Player Menu that brings up the SOZ party creation, nothing fancy.

So even if you don't want include it, people will enable it if they really want it. I'm just suggesting including it in an Optional Content pack for those that want it for convenience reasons. Along with multiclassing freedom, different world map etc.

Sure it might be cheating if you min/max everyone but it was included in the original game for those that wanted it.
And well custom party does not mean powergaming, that's up to the players choice, some might not like the NPCs that are included and want something different, especially with all the choices of races/classes/prestige classes.

Modifié par Luminus, 07 juillet 2011 - 07:50 .

[-Semper-]

Shallina wrote...

What s the point of the 20 + NPC if you can make them all perfect ?

it ain't about making them perfect but to have the freedom to level them the way you want as a player. yes, this will limit the personality of a given companion. restricting them will open for some nice additional quests (something like khelgar and the quest of becoming a monk) and dialogues, therefore i favor the approach of you. it feels more like evolving around the pc.

adding the soz party creation can be added later if there isn't enough time

Modifié par -Semper-, 07 juillet 2011 - 07:52 .

[kamal_]

The point would be that it was included in the original game, by default without any community mods, for people that wanted to do it. Less fun for you (and I), but more fun for those who want it, and it was a default feature.

[Shallina]

that s the SOZ party creation.

For the compagnion let them be real.