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[Hellfire_RWS]

http://social.biowar...3/index/3127934
If I recall this tool creates lip sync with text only.. I think.

Modifié par Hellfire_RWS, 21 mars 2013 - 11:37 .

[kamal_]

Hellfire_RWS wrote...

http://social.biowar...3/index/3127934
If I recall this tool creates lip sync with text only.. I think.

I think that was the second half of what binary and I had talked about. It requires a wav file. I was asking him about using a text to speech to generate the wav, then have it fed automatically into that. That tool generates proper lip movement for the speech.

[Tchos]

ColorsFade wrote...
What I've noticed about cut-scenes (for myself) is that I will click through the text as fast as I can read them.

As for myself, I prefer not having to click-click-click through the text or wait for it to advance to the next bit (I'm a very fast reader), by way of the text all being presented in a dialogue box, where the user controls the flow of the dialogue.

==

More generally...

As was mentioned earlier, some settings make it impossible to even click through it, but I believe that's caused by specifying a delay for a particular line, and not a lip-flapper.

As with others, I read the text, not look at the character, so it doesn't matter to me if the lips are moving or not.

Since I've played Baldur's Gate already, of course, I'll probably want to skip through it even faster, being somewhat familiar with it.

Modifié par Tchos, 22 mars 2013 - 12:41 .

[ColorsFade]

Tchos wrote...

As for myself, I prefer not having to click-click-click through the text or wait for it to advance to the next bit (I'm a very fast reader), by way of the text all being presented in a dialogue box, where the user controls the flow of the dialogue.

You must be talking about conversation trees that are one-sided in the conversation, yes? 

Like#1: NPC - [CONTINUE] - NPCLine#2 - [CONTINUE] - NPCLine#2 - etc.. 

Tchos wrote...
...some settings make it impossible to even click through it, but I believe that's caused by specifying a delay for a particular line, and not a lip-flapper.

That is indeed the case. If a minimum delay is set on a node in a NWN2 conversation, it will stay on that node a minimum of that specified time. You can't click to the next node. 

VO doesn't matter. You can click through a lot of NWN2 conversations in the OC before their VO finishes (I know I did). Same with the lip-flappers. Only the node's delay setting matters. 

I read fast too. Hence, I don't want  people to not be able to click through dialog fast if they can. 

I guess I need to look at what a one-sided conversation looks like in NWN1 style. 

[-Semper-]

ColorsFade wrote...

I guess I need to look at what a one-sided conversation looks like in NWN1 style.

there's a minimum of clicks needed while using nwn1 style conversations. that's because you can put alot more text within the dialogue window before you have to jump to the next page. mostly you read the text, click your answer, read the next paragraph, click your answer... rins repeat. the flow of a nwn2 style cutscene is totally different. read sentence, click, read sentence, click, read sentence, click, click answer, read sentence click, read sentence, click, click answer... plus you have to hit space to pause if you're slow reader.

those cutscenes are really only there for showing a staged movie with as few text as possible or if you're in need of dramatic camera angles. the dialogue with myrkul works very well and gets the atmosphere right. if you watch the trailer of the bg remake you'll notice that the small dialgoues with the npcs don't work in a nwn2 style conversation. the whole gameplay is interrupted and the sudden camera change confuses. in contrast to this the escape with gorion really shines as a cutscene. there's little text and the scene is driven through action where camera work is needed.

[ColorsFade]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

My conversations don't have many options unless it really matters ( which makes the choices more important when they happen as opposed to every single line ) and I don't cater for any form of alignment or mood swings the PC might be having as I prefer to write a story and because of this I don't see how having a cutscene would be slower than a box.

That happens to be my preferene as well (as far as constructing dialog goes). There's zero alignment shifting in my campaign. There is also not the standard 3 choices for every response. I mean, why? So the player has the "illusion" that choice matters? And yet all three of those choices will wrap back to the same responses from the NPC... nah. That's a time-waste to a mod builder, as far as I can see. 

I'd rather make choices actually matter. 

One of the first encounters in my mod, you are confronted with an opportunity to actually make a choice that matters. You can choose to attempt to use Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidated or Fight it out. The consequences of your choices (or failed choices if you fail your roll) affect the quest XP rewarded. To me - that's choice and consequence. 

Another encounter early in the game gives you the opportunity to use either pay straight cash homey (reference for you NFL fans), use your Appraise skill vs. the NPC, or try and use your Charisma to sway them (I do something similar to a stat roll vs. DC with the CHA check: you roll plus your CHA vs. a DC and if you win, you "pursuaded" the NPC with your "charm").

The outcome of any of those "choices" affects your wallet. To me, that's choice. 

As for the dialog bit... I'm going to test it out today. I thought I was well familiar with both methods having played through the OC a fewtimes and MotB,but clearly I'm missing something if players have such strong feelings one way or the other. 

I can say this: just from my building and testing, I have naturally gravitated toward a mix of the two styles. I use the NWN2 style for cinematic encounters (like right before a boss-mob fight), and for Companion interactions. Everything else has been NWN1.... We'll see if that sticks. 

[Arkalezth]

Question: Why do all these discussions about gameplay preferences (conversation style, lootable bodies/bags, etc.) take place in this thread? It's not like they can't be applied to other modules as well.

Besides, BGR is already in beta, so I wouldn't expect those kinds of things, which aren't really that important anyway, to be changed at this point.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 22 mars 2013 - 02:38 .

[ColorsFade]

Arkalezth wrote...

Question: Why do all these discussions about gameplay preferences (conversation style, lootable bodies/bags, etc.) take place in this thread? It's not like they can't be applied to other modules as well.

Besides, BGR is already in beta, so I wouldn't expect those kinds of things, which aren't really that important anyway, to be changed at this point.

I wouldn't expect anything to be changed either. (and if I were the makers of BG mod, I'd just smile and move on. The truth is, they've done amazing work where it really matters, from the looks of things)

But what's the harm in discussing it here? I always consider message boards like being in a room at a convention center. Conversations ebb and flow and grow organically. Listen to what you want, engage in what you want. Walk away if something bores you. 

[rjshae]

ColorsFade wrote...
That happens to be my preferene as well (as far as constructing dialog goes). There's zero alignment shifting in my campaign. There is also not the standard 3 choices for every response. I mean, why? So the player has the "illusion" that choice matters? And yet all three of those choices will wrap back to the same responses from the NPC... nah. That's a time-waste to a mod builder, as far as I can see. 

I'd rather make choices actually matter.

I think part of that is providing an illusion of non-linearity. Every RPG plot line is linear for the most part; you're almost always chanelled down certain paths. But by having a diversity of responses, you're at least allowing the player to express their PC's character. It's a matter of demonstrating that some (unknown to the player) subset of those choices really do matter, thereby giving the appearance of implementing a variety of role-playing approaches.

[Arkalezth]

ColorsFade wrote...

But what's the harm in discussing it here? I always consider message boards like being in a room at a convention center. Conversations ebb and flow and grow organically. Listen to what you want, engage in what you want. Walk away if something bores you. 

Don't let me spoil the party, but I just find it curious how those things are randomly discussed on a thread about a specific module which is pretty much already finished. I mean, it's kinda weird to read a post about the beta being released, and suddenly, soon after that, something like:

"Hey, cool module. By the way, how are you handling this little irrelevant thing? Because I hope you've done it like this: Blah blah blah..."

... Which leads to a two-pages discussion about personal preferences, regardless of it being actually implemented in the module. I just think that's better discussed elsewhere, where it might actually have a purpose (i.e. modules currently in development, etc.), and leave the BGR topic for BGR-related stuff. I mean, if I like lootable corpses (that sounds sick, doesn't it?), I like lootable corpses everywhere, not only in BGR.

But as I said, don't let me spoil the party. And for the record, I don't recall if it's being answered, but judging from what I've seen, there are glowing bags with (some corpses here and there, but not many), and most, if not all conversations are cutscene-style.

[-Semper-]

Arkalezth wrote...

I just find it curious how those things are randomly discussed on a thread about a specific module which is pretty much already finished. ... Which leads to a two-pages discussion about personal preferences, regardless of it being actually implemented in the module.

welcome to the internet. that's the nature of threads, else it would be a blog. of course there won't be a sudden change in the direction of the development at this point, but there's nothing wrong with talking about experiences and personal preferences either.

[ColorsFade]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

rjshae.. I agree and for companies that employ loads of staff to make their games and advertise them as role playing games that is all well and good.

But personally if I'm about to write a couple of hundred thousand words ....

Well argued on all counts. I'm with you password. 

We have limited resources to build these mobs. We're limited in staff (usually ourselves) and time (or else we risk never publishing). Making choices is tough. I'm sure a few of us would love to do EVERYTHING right and give as much choice to the player (real and illusionary) as possible. But it's just not realistic. 

Real choice trumps illusionary choice, in my book. If players are going to make choices, I'd rather they have tangible results. More or less gold as a reword for a job well (or not well) done, more or less quest XP (maybe you shouldn't have drawn swords so fast eh?), a different item earned, maybe an NPC will no longer speak to you because you whacked their brother, and now you have to find someone else to give you the information you seek...

[ColorsFade]

Arkalezth wrote...

I mean, it's kinda weird to read a post about the beta being released, and suddenly, soon after that, something like:

"Hey, cool module. By the way, how are you handling this little irrelevant thing? Because I hope you've done it like this: Blah blah blah..."

... Which leads to a two-pages discussion about personal preferences, regardless of it being actually implemented in the module.

That's the only part I'm *not* looking forward to when I release my campaign someday down the road. People are nitpicky. 

I look at the screenshots for BG Reloaded and I am blown away. They got it right. Someone spent a helluva lot of time crafting areas to make them that good. And I'm sure if they spent the time to get those areas that well done, they've got the quests and encounters right too. That's a lot of work... 


And then someone comes on the thread and ****es about corpses, or cut-scenes, or armor not falling off... I mean, really? You can't just respect all the work they've done and be happy you have something cool to play? 

LOL... people. Not happy unless they're ****ing. 

[drechner]

While time is definitely a reality at this point, I definitely appreciate the feedback, both positive and negative. I'll definitely take a bit of time to ensure major NPCs at least will have fully lootable corpses now (and others if there's time) for example. The camera is a bit tricky and a bit of personal preference; I love the cinematic look to the conversations, but I know there are many who do not. Of course, the beauty is that once this is released, anyone can change this if they'd like

ColorsFade wrote...

I look at the screenshots for BG Reloaded and I am blown away. They got it right. Someone spent a helluva lot of time crafting areas to make them that good. And I'm sure if they spent the time to get those areas that well done, they've got the quests and encounters right too. That's a lot of work... 

Thanks!

[Shallina]

With NWN2, and BGR, to have something done right, after working on it I can say it's an average of 50% time on making the area, and 50% on scripting it.

I used the cutscene conversation for almost all of them, beceause with well crafted conversation and events I think it translate very well. We have the chance to work with a full written game, wich mean we don't have conversation wich are only yes/no type. Every NPC has a little something to say.

Also I tried to script BGR the less criptic possible, so poeple could open the toolset and adapt the game as they wish.

For the body/bag vs corps that reamin, it's mainly for the engine, having a little glowing bad takes less CPU/GPU ressource than a "dead" body to show. Having hundreds of corps in an area could be problematic for the game engine. Hour home is the NWN2 engine, and we can't push its walls, we have to do within what we got.

[ColorsFade]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Hooray for cutscenes ! Frankly though it doesn't really matter as I just want to know what all the fuss is about and what people keep going on about with regards to Baldurs Gate and how good it was.

So you've never played it? 

I'll say this (not giving anything away here): A large part of the appeal of Baldur's Gate 1 was the fact that, up until that point, no AD&D game had really been done for CRPG. There were dungeon-crawl games, of course, like Ultima and Stonekeep, but nothing really captured the PnP AD&D we were all playing at home. Probably the closest thing to an AD&D type CRPG at the time was Betrayel at Krondor (a game I loaded up last year, just for old time's sake, and the graphics made me laugh... but that's what we put up with back then, so we could play something). 

Baldur's Gate came out and gave us something we'd never seen before. And that was pretty damn amazing. 

[Dorateen]

ColorsFade wrote...
, no AD&D game had really been done for CRPG. 

The SSI Gold Box games, which ran from 1988 to 1992, and are what the Infinity Engine and specifically BG were based upon.

The AD&D Gold Box also featured superior turn-based combat.

Harumph!

[lady_lunatic]

I still have the Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 in their original cardboard boxes somewhere.
Can't recall exact but I remember having to keep swapping discs between areas lol there was a good 6 or 7 discs per game.

[lady_lunatic]

I brought them from Electronic Boutique was some time ago now before it was known as GAME

Modifié par lady_lunatic, 23 mars 2013 - 04:47 .

[PJ156]

lady_lunatic wrote...

I still have the Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 in their original cardboard boxes somewhere.
Can't recall exact but I remember having to keep swapping discs between areas lol there was a good 6 or 7 discs per game.

I do too and remember all to well the disc swapping

It was still very very cool to me then and this project is going to bring that all back I hope.

PJ

[drechner]

Shallina wrote...

With NWN2, and BGR, to have something done right, after working on it I can say it's an average of 50% time on making the area, and 50% on scripting it.

I think it might be a little more like 50% area building, 10% custom content, 10% item/characters, 30% scripting