15235 réponses à ce sujet

[Alesia_BH]

 Quick Note on Alessandra's Game:

Alessandra has completed the Windpear Hills Quest (finally, I was getting sick of fighting Orcs and being out buffed by Hobgoblins...). She left Firkraag for another day. Conster was futzed with the aid of Simmy Alessandra, and then thumped. 


I can post more on the Conster fight if there is interest.


Best,

A.

Btw. In case it isn't clear "futzed" is just a term I've started using for Wizard Slayer spell disruption.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:26 .

[Alesia_BH]

Final Update for Alessandra:

I'm sad to report that Alessandra's run has ended. I was curious to see how much trouble backstabbers would be for Alessandra given that she relies on slowing others rather then speeding herself up. I sent her up against Mencar's crew as a test. They're a problem alright. Brennan and his Potions of Invisibility carved her to shreds. Game over.

I'm not sure I'm suited to playing a Wizard Slayer. I can't say that I understand the kit yet, but they seem to require a more aggressive approach then I'm accustomed to. I'm sure others could play one far more capably.

I'm not sure what I'll do next. I'm considering resuming Alora's game of course, but I'm also getting excited about trying a Mage/Thief. I love Mages, and I love Thieves, but I've never done a Mage/Thief strange as that may seem. It may be time to give it a try. We'll see.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 15 octobre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Vaclavc]

Alesia_BH wrote...
I'm sad to report that Alessandra's run has ended.

I am very sorry to hear that, Alesia. As for your planned mage/thief run, might I recommend gnome thief/illusionist? Bonus spells, thieving bonuses and enhanced saving throws make it one of the most  potent and versatile multiclasses, in my opinion.
V

[Alesia_BH]

Vaclavc wrote...
 As for your planned mage/thief run, might I recommend gnome thief/illusionist? Bonus spells, thieving bonuses and enhanced saving throws make it one of the most  potent and versatile multiclasses, in my opinion.
V

Thanks for the suggestion. And I agree: that's definitely the power route.

It's tempting, but I think I'm going to go with an elf.

I usually create characters by starting with a portrait. I have one that looks like a Mage/Thief to me. She's definitely an elfish gal.

My runs tend to end with abandonment rather than death, so I think I'm better off picking a character I'll have a chance to connect with. I just don't dig gnomes...

Once again, good luck with Avorunis!

Cheers,

A.

[amanasleep]

Thief/mage may be significantly less challenging than your previous runs, due to their very even power level throughout the game and their potent offense and defense capabilities. I thought of dualing a Bounty Hunter to Mage at level 12 to keep the power level somewhat under control while adding some fun.

[Grond0]

Alesia_BH wrote...
I'm sad to report that Alessandra's run has ended.

I'm not sure I'm suited to playing a Wizard Slayer. I can't say that I understand the kit yet, but they seem to require a more aggressive approach then I'm accustomed to. I'm sure others could play one far more capably.

You seemed pretty good at it from my point of view.

[Grond0]

After a rapid run through BG1, Ergot the berserker has arrived in Athkatla.  At the moment I'm intending to take him through the whole of SoA, without worrying about dying (continuing outside this thread), in order to see what the end game looks like.

He came through the dungeon with no problems - the only thing he didn't complete was the vampire (which was petrified by the mage).  I must say it is pleasant to have a character which doesn't have to worry about pesky mephits for a change.

Alesia_BH wrote...
I'm sad to report that Alessandra's run has ended. I was curious to see how much trouble backstabbers would be for Alessandra given that she relies on slowing others rather then speeding herself up. I sent her up against Mencar's crew as a test. They're a problem alright. Brennan and his Potions of Invisibility carved her to shreds.

The only thing Ergot has done since the dungeon was this encounter - he wanted the ring of invisibility Brennan has before starting his travels.  Brennan's backstabs under haste potion were a major problem for him as well and he used 7 or 8 extra-healing potions during the action as well as all 3 of his berserker rages.  Eventually Brennan got a touch too far away from his compatriots and paid the price (he tried to run, but was cut down as he turned).  The rest were straightforward as Ergot had superior movement and weapon speed.

Here are his current stats.

[Stworka]

That was the most draining recording session i've ever had.
Not only was it bug-ridden, and crashed a dozen times, but i was also interrupted time and again, and forced to leave my lovely Co-Commentator waiting.

Not one of you will care, but since i like finishing what i started, i hereby present Thee :

Improved Irenicus in HELL (SCSII with tactics extreme version, insanity, extra monster spawning) 37:45 incl. pausing. Commentary. 
We crash at 3:19. Thankfully it's during Pre-Buff.
The enemies start spawning at 5:10.

• Beholder-spawning Elder Orb with priest and mage spells, as well as constitution draining ray.
• Wyvern spawning shadow dragon, that drains levels with it's breath.
• Sword spawning blade, that is immune to all physical damage, and also drains levels.
• Wraith spawning Sarevok-Wraith, that is absolutely immune to all magic, and drains strength..
• And LICH spawning Jon Irenicus, with endless spells and a very special "Shatter Magic" I-WIN move, that removes ALL magic from the target. AoE.

That's phase 1 (of 3) i'd go on about the fight, but there is little point to that. Those interested, will learn all from the video, those not, will be glad my post wasn't longer.

ToB, here i come! 

Modifié par Stworka, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:50 .

[Stworka]

Alesia_BH wrote...
My runs tend to end with abandonment rather than death, so I think I'm better off picking a character I'll have a chance to connect with. I just don't dig gnomes...

Add some neat quest mods to refresh the experience? Ironman or not, when the game is boring, they simply end. 

Hope to see You back in the flames soon.
Oi!

[Alesia_BH]

amanasleep wrote...

Thief/Mage may be significantly less challenging than your previous runs, due to their very even power level throughout the game and their potent offense and defense capabilities.

Yeah. The Thief/Mage definitely seems like a class that could power through my install. I wouldn't necessarily expeect to succeed in my first run with one though- there are bound to be some growing pains in learning the class. Once you have the class down though, I imagine it would be a pretty straightforward No Reload.

It'll either be the T/M or another run with my Bounty Hunter. It would be nice to have a success (I haven't had one since my ~4 year break actually) and I'm pretty confident in her now that she has ironed out her tactics for the final fight. 

I thought of dualing a Bounty Hunter to Mage at level 12 to keep the power level somewhat under control while adding some fun.

That sounds interesting. I suppose I could try doing that with Alesia (it would feel very strange to dual her though...) If you do run a BH->Mage I hope you'll post on it here.

Grond0 wrote...
You seemed pretty good at it from my point of view.

That's kind of you to say. But I think I was going about it all wrong.

Alessandra's reliance on the Sword of Arvoreen (to Slow and prevent herself from being Slowed) worked to an extent, but I think it was a symptom of a deeper problem: I was trying to force a movement based approach onto a kit which should be building a comparative advantage in APR and Damage Per Round.

A dual wielding Half-Orc would likely have worked better. Who knows though: I may be foolishly damning Alessandra's approach when the problem was merely that she didn't have enough Extra Healing Potions on her when she faced Brennan...I can't really say untill I try the other angle I guess...

Best,

A.


Btw. Congrats on finishing SoA Stworka! Best of luck in ToB!

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 octobre 2011 - 02:57 .

[amanasleep]

Alesia_BH wrote...

That sounds interesting. I suppose I could try doing that with Alesia (it would feel very strange to dual her though...) If you do run a BH->Mage I hope you'll post on it here.

I can't decide on BH->Mage or BH->Cleric.

Alessandra's reliance on the Sword of Arvoreen (to Slow and prevent herself from being Slowed) worked to an extent, but I think it was a symptom of a deeper problem: I was trying to force a movement based approach onto a kit which should be building a comparative advantage in APR and Damage Per Round.

A dual wielding Half-Orc would likely have worked better. Who knows though: I may be foolishly damning Alessandra's approach when the problem was merely that she didn't have enough Extra Healing Potions on her when she faced Brennan...I can't really say untill I try the other angle I guess...

Both of these observations seem right: although a stronger melee based approach is likely better for a Wizard Slayer (the lack of exceptional strength really hurts here), I really don't see any reason to be overly pessimistic about your current approach.

I thought patched BG2 allowed WS to cause spell failure with ranged.

[Alesia_BH]

I can't decide on BH->Mage or BH->Cleric.

Both could be fun of course. Enjoy.

amanasleep wrote...
I thought patched BG2 allowed WS to cause spell failure with ranged.

There is a Tweak which permits that but I didn't install it- it seems a bit much. 

That said, the Tweak wouldn't address the fundamental problem: the issue is movement rate.

When making physical attacks, you can build a comparative advantage around speed (movement rate) and quickness (weapon speed factor) or around damage per hit and APR. The former typically trumps the latter, however, the Wizard Slayer can't execute that approach well since the item restrictions limit access to movement rate enhancers. Without a reliable movement rate advantage, you need to be able to hit hard and often. Alessandra couldn't.

If Brennan didn't kill her, a melee fighter with an Oil of Speed, an Exceptional Strength Potion, and a Range 2 Speed Factor 0 (effective) weapon would have. It was just a matter of time really (assuming she wasn't overlevelled).

If I overlevelled her to Crom, she may have been fine, but that wouldn't have been fun for me.

Anyhoo. Enough about Alessandra. Let's let the girl rest in peace...

I'm actually thinking about resuming Alora's game at this point. I rolled up an M/T in Candlekeep, but I'm really not in the mood for BG1. I'm also contemplating picking up one of the other "fallow" BG2 games. We'll see...


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 octobre 2011 - 06:48 .

[Grond0]

amanasleep wrote...

Alessandra's reliance on the Sword of Arvoreen (to Slow and prevent herself from being Slowed) worked to an extent, but I think it was a symptom of a deeper problem: I was trying to force a movement based approach onto a kit which should be building a comparative advantage in APR and Damage Per Round.

A dual wielding Half-Orc would likely have worked better. Who knows though: I may be foolishly damning Alessandra's approach when the problem was merely that she didn't have enough Extra Healing Potions on her when she faced Brennan...I can't really say untill I try the other angle I guess...

Both of these observations seem right: although a stronger melee based approach is likely better for a Wizard Slayer (the lack of exceptional strength really hurts here), I really don't see any reason to be overly pessimistic about your current approach.

I may not really be in the best position to comment, but I think your strategy was good.  A pure WS using your install (as I understand it) wouldn't get above 5.5 APR until HLAs are available (level 13, Belm, dual wielding, Arbane haste, weapon proficiency).  With a simmy that would probably be enough against a solo mage, although you would be potentially exposed to a spell in the first round.  However, it wouldn't help much against a group - particularly as the haste only lasts a couple of rounds. 

WIth your shorty character your saving throws against spells at L13 would be 3 at the highest (could be negative if using helm of Balduran and Claw of Kazgoroth) which helps reduce the danger from spells.  However, a WS is never going to have a great AC, so an aggressive approach seems unlikely to work in a no-reload context.  A half-orc would have a slight advantage in melee, but I wouldn't have thought that would be enough to turn the tide of most group battles and would come at a big cost in saving throws.

While it would be better to have all benefits, if a choice has to be made, I think a strategy based on mobility seems more likely to be successful than one based on aggression.

[Alesia_BH]

Understood. And in general, I do favor mobility over aggression as you know.

My concern wasn't with her ability to handle mages. In fact, she had few problems with them between her immunity items and disruption abilities. The issue for her was -and was likely to be- melee fighters. Stab-n-go works great if you can at least match the speed of others. But if you are forced to work at a movement rate disadvantage and others can match your weapon speed factor, you better be able to deal out heavy damage on a per round basis. That's what she had issues with.

Using Arvoreen, Ages, and Dispelling Arrows to maintain movement rate parity worked in the near term, but I strongly suspect it would fall flat later on. Of course, if she could get Crom by then, well then she might work out fine. Again, I'm not convinced that it is a totally unworkable approach, I would just like to experiment with the alternative.

I'll also note that the habitual lack of Healing potions was partially a function of her damage output...

Anyhoo. I may give a Wizard Slayer a go once again- we'll see. I'm actually having a heck of a lot of fun with another unlikely Halfling build now. I expect her to die a horrible death sooner rather than later (which is why I haven't posted on her here) but in the meantime, she's fun.

Best,

A.


Btw. Given that you plan to continue your Berserker run if the worst happens, and I'm having fun with my death-destined Halfling, it may make sense for us to start up a Campfire Thread like we had in the old forums.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 octobre 2011 - 10:32 .

[Gorthaur X]

I'm sorry to hear that, Alesia, it seems people are dying left and right.

[Grond0]

Alesia_BH wrote...
Understood. And in general, I do favor mobility over aggression as you know.

Indeed.  Apologies for labouring the point - I wouldn't have posted if I'd seen your edited post first.

Btw. Given that you plan to continue your Berserker run if the worst happens, and I'm having fun with my death-destined Halfling, it may make sense for us to start up a Campfire Thread like we had in the old forums.

Sounds sensible.  I'll see how long I can delay that for first though.

Ergot has made a bit more progress.  After whizzing through the circus she depleted her funds donating at the temple and then headed for the slums.  Rage quickly allowed her to liberate the Copper Coronet and then go on to cleanse the slums of the slaver scum.

Went to the bridge area to attempt to solve the skinner murders, but ran into some congestion on the street.  Ergot tried (not too hard) to save the Shadow Thieves, but only succeeded in getting chased by Hareishan - more combat occurred on the fringes during this chase.  Hareishan was significantly quicker, but still was only able to get an attack in 3 times during the chase.  Nevertheless that resulted in 2 lots of draining for Ergot and I was starting to wonder if he would need to retreat when Azuredge finally kicked in on the 9th attempt.  After visiting and resting Ergot confronted the tanner.  Battle resulted and the first rune assassin delivered a nasty backstab, but fortunately the second missed.

After another rest there was yet more action on the street - this time the vampire appeared unkillable, but the rogue Shadow Thieves were not.  After reporting his findings Ergot's reputation reached 20 (along with charisma) and he was ready to do a bit of shopping.  Travelling back to the Promenade triggered the Suna Seni ambush - a single rage ran out just as the last foe exploded in pieces.  At Ribald's Ergot bought a few items, including ring of air control.  Still needs a bit more money for the simmy helm, but that will probably be next on the list.

Travelling invisibly he had no problem with the Renfeld ambush and is currently at Harper HQ doing Xzar's quest.

Modifié par Grond0, 16 octobre 2011 - 01:48 .

[Stworka]

amanasleep wrote...

I can't decide on BH->Mage or BH->Cleric.

Adding mage will give you all those i-win, defensive spells, cleric will be the more difficult choice to finish the game. 

[Wierdo]

Alesia_BH wrote...

I just don't dig gnomes...

Hey! My current PC is a female gnome illusionist/thief and she rocks!

However, I do use the avatar morphing script to make her look more like a halfling thief. The default female gnome avatar has a beard!

Judging from what others have done before in the no-reload challenge, it should be acceptable to use SK to mod an elf into a multiclass with one specialist class (e.g. mage).

[Alesia_BH]

Wierdo wrote...

Hey! My current PC is a female gnome illusionist/thief 

Sorry!

Your gnome is wonderful of course.

I don't mind reading about gnomes or rooting for them, I just don't want to snuggle up to one for an entire run... 

[Alesia_BH]

Ok. I guess I'll introduce my new Halfling. She's just so much fun...

Here she- it's Alessandra Reborn (And this time, she don't need no stinking armor...)


I'm basically trying out a variant of the "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" approach. It's float like a butterfly, sting like a mulekick...


She has Grandmastery in Two Handed Swords. With her proficiency and Kensai bonuses, she can wield them at Speed Factor 0. That means she can rush to the edge of melee range, crank off a ~70hp Critical, and then dart away before enemies can respond. And since she is wearing the classic BG1 range weapon foiling items -along with the Belt of Inertial Barrier- it's tough to harm her with range weapons as well.

Her saves look great and she has access to a full range of item and potion based spell counters. At this stage of the game (Level 12) she's looking really good. And she is a lot of fun. Maybe it's just me, but there is something immensely cool about a Halfling Kensai wielding a Two Handed Sword...

Anyhoo. I'm not under any illusions. She has some pretty serious limitations and I'm quite sure she won't make it all the way. She is very enjoyable for now though.

I'll post more on her relatively soon.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 octobre 2011 - 05:08 .

[Gate70]

Morig, LG human male cavalier. With Jaheira, Viconia, Edwina and Jan.

Trademeet is free from animals, djinn and skindancers. Viconia and Edwin are getting uppity again reputation 17 so we do some shopping before returning to the city to pay Gaelan Bayle and meet Aran Linvail. His contact, Mook, is killed before us so I scare off Lassal and kill Parisa. Two deserters and a recruiter are next, then I deliver some fake alloy to Sir Sarles and reset my reputation kill Belmin gives nothing but the nearby guard drops me 8 points to 9.

I have Azuredge while Viconia has the mace of disruption. Hasted, we dismiss Tanova. Lassal wants to play upstairs, he misses once and I hit once.


Bodhi shows herself, and forces me to glug a healing potion before we scare her off.


We celebrate by upgrading the mace of disruption.

At this point I updated to the latest version of Ubuntu and the game has gone stuttery and running at about 75% speed so my gameplay may suffer.

Nalia greets us as we arrive outside the de'Arnise hold. Trolls eh? Jan insists we detour to Watchers Keep and purchase an alternate crossbow. I switch to the stonefire axe and my four casters memorise various fire and acid spells. We rest, then clear the ground floor of the hold, the courtyard and the second floor in one go ending with buffs against Glaicas.


Another secret entrance leads to golems. We kill four of them, forge the FOA +3 and return for the final two. The clay golem is dropped in moments, while the iron golem is gradually cut down.


We descend and carry the buffs through a trio of trolls. Jan herds up some umber hulks but I let them out again.


We rest upstairs before returning to deal with Torgal and his two buddies.


Jaheira leaves for the Harper hold, so we follow her. We fight our way in, then fight our way out again.

Modifié par Gate70, 16 octobre 2011 - 04:36 .

[Alesia_BH]

 Quick note on Alessandra's Game:

Alessandra had an unexpected and unpleasant encounter with the Sewers Beholder crew whilst trying to ice Roger's Sea Troll. I was quite displeased when the Beholder decided to follow her upstairs.



Of course, no one in the Temple District seemed to mind a bit- they just kept chatting about parentage and such...

The Halfling save bonuses were nice to have here no doubt. Alessandra's saves at Level13 with her standard items and her Ring of Air Control active. The Save v Death can be brought down further if need be with her Spear of the Unicorn.


To date, Kensai Alessandra has completed the Slaver, De'Arnise, Umar, and Trademeet quests. She'll likely go to Firkraag's next as per her progenitors path.

Best,

A.

Btw. Sorry to hear BG isn't running smoothy on your computer now Gate70. That really can make gameplay much more difficult. I hope Morig fights through it.

Btw II. I just sent Kensai Alessandra to the scene of Wizard Slayer Alessandra's demise. Surprise, surprise: hitting really fracking hard, really fast does make a difference...

Brennan got one swing at Alessandra's Mirror Images before this happened.


Mencar and Orclicer were able to smack Alessandra when she was focused on Brennan, but aside from that, they were helpless.



Notably, this battle ended up being a net plus on the Potions of Extra Healing front.

I'm still feeling drawn to the Wizard Slayer kit though. I definitely want to try it again sometime...



 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 octobre 2011 - 06:00 .

[Grond0]

Update for Ergot.  He's had a fairly quiet session - a lot of time spent on inventory work.  Completed Xzar's quest and had another vampire encounter immediately after that - Del and her vampires proved far less resistant to Azuredge than Hareishan.  Then went to ransack the graveyard and the tombs underneath (Azuredge again making light work of the undead there) in order to get enough coin for the simmy helm (in fact, after an inventory clear out, had enough left over to pay off Gaelen Boyle in order to get a +2 ring from Aran Linvail).  His Divine Might Bhaal power was quite fun to use as a spider incinerator in Pai'Na's nest.

Now feeling well prepared he ventured out for his rendezvous with Nalia.  The slaver / orog ambush on the way was comfortably defeated with help from the simmy and Ergot started to work his way through the keep.  Even with negative saves he needed to be a bit careful against groups of trolls - 3 spirit trolls acting together can soon cause significant damage with flame strikes and unholy blights.  However, he was careful and was never actually threatened.  He acquired a nice new axe and immediately put it to good use on a golem.  Downstairs he treated the umber hulks to a tasty last meal before disposing of them and then moved on to the main course with Torgal.

For this fight he buffed up more than for any previous ones, though still the only potion taken was one of speed.  However, my inexperience with a simmy showed immediately when it was confused with the first act of the combat (I had forgotten that it's saving throws would alter due to level change).  Rather than keep this as a minimal cost combat Ergot therefore rolled out all his 3 potions of firebreath.  These killed one of the yuan-ti mages (and 2 giant trolls) and severely damaged the other - his axe, showing it's virtues against stoneskin, applied the finishing touch.  Torgal, left on his own, fell quickly and Ergot went looking for the umber hulk elder - only to find himself looking into a mirror.  I had thought the confused simmy had perished much earlier, but it appears he was just hiding behind one of the pillars.

[Grond0]

Alesia_BH wrote...
Brennan got one swing at Alessandra's Mirror Images before this happened...

Ah, revenge is sweet!

[Gate70]

well good luck everyone (sigh)

Morig, LG human male cavalier. With Jaheira, Viconia, Edwin and Jan.

Stronghold. Baron Metrich and his gang manage to kill Jaheira should have tried dispelling the hold earlier so Viconia has to raise her. Then Jan talks to Tryrianna, who repeats "Get back to your little post, paladin boy. I don't have time to enjoy your company even if stuck here" every five seconds. Aargh. Eventually I talk to her and she shuts up, hooray. Then she starts again. Right!


Eventally that wears off and we get more repeats can't remember the quest but believe this is stuffed so fiddle in Shadowkeeper and get a 2nd instance of her, who I can tell to go upstairs. What a mess.

Moments later assassins attack and we have to chase them upstairs. When they are dead we return downstairs. We check upstairs again, no sign of her. Damn. We step outside, only for Tanova and Dermin to appear. Edwin and Jan still have no licence so we make do.


Edwin is down but their casters are plagued or silenced.


I'm in trouble, while two casters are back in action and my divine casters have miscast magic. Dermin is down and I glug 3 extra healing potions as Jan uses a wand to summon monsters.


Viconia raises Edwin and we head inside. No sign of Tyrianna so looks like my game is drawing to a close the combination of stuttering, not having a stronghold, having messed up the autosave, not done a formal save all sesson or part of the previous session is irritating me.

Modifié par Gate70, 16 octobre 2011 - 08:53 .