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[amanasleep]

Alesia_BH wrote...

Call Lightning may be fun in a trivial battle, but I'm not inclined to view it as a serious tactical tool. The casting time is way too long.

When playing thieves and warriors I almost always let my enemies take the initiative when it comes to aura use. I prefer to let them fiddle with the long casting time stuff and then use my aura for quick acting counters.

Basically, I prefer to be reactive, quick, and precisely right rather than lead and hope for the best. Call Lightning is more of a lead and hope for the best spell.

If I have impenetrable defenses: sure, I'll lead then. Otherwise I keep my aura in reserve.

The annoying thing about Clerics and such is that they rarely have impenetrable defenses and a lot of their spells have long casting times...

Ashoka has been using her book for buffs almost exclusively. Doom has been the only useable red spell for her.

Best,

A.

Btw. The above comments are applicable to the real Ashoka. I recently caved and bought Vhailor primarily for Rat tanking and Kachiko duplication. You may see Call Lightning from Simmy Ashoka every now and then.

I agree.  Clerics have a lot of trouble getting spells off.  In PNP they were supposed to have better defenses than mages, being able to cast in armor, etc. but in BG mages have ways to foil all disruptions, which is superior.

It's just very hard to have access to 5 max damage Flame Strikes and not use them.

Modifié par amanasleep, 27 octobre 2011 - 08:35 .

[Alesia_BH]

Understood. But I think that playing a Cleric well in BG2 would require you to do so often, sadly. I can't truly say - I haven't done a single class Cleric in BG2. I can only really comment on Druids and even then, I can only comment on how they play in an Ascension/Tactics install.

With my Avenger Druid, the non-HLA Druidic offensive spells were of very limited use in tough fights. Nature's Beauty out of invisibility, sure. Doom, sure. Poison. Meh, but ok. The casting times were too long on most the others and standing around waiving your hands while exposed usually makes little sense when things are rough.

Of course, if your enemies are weak enough that it can work, the spells are hardly needed. It's a bummer.

COrb, Lighting Bolt, Web, were all useable, but they had those nice short arcane casting times. Perhaps the short times on arcane spells and long time on divine spells made sense in the PnP world if Priests did have better defenses, but in BG I feel flipping them might have led to better balance between the arcana and divine worlds.

Rather then a Robe of Vecna, perhaps the game could use a Full Plate Mail of Vecna...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 27 octobre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Alesia_BH]

 Quick Note on Ashoka's Game:

Ashoka and her Simulacrum (AKA- Mighty Mouse) are currently carving a path through Suldanessellar.



They will soon face Niz. I hope to post on the return of Rillifane shortly.

Best,

A.

[aVENGER_]

AnonymousHero wrote...
A monk of mine was certainly in the low negatives and was killed by one the Baalors summoned by Irenicus in the final fight. These were aTweaks fiends, though I'm told that the vanilla ones also have a vorpal-without-save.

In aTweaks, Balors have a 15% chance of landing a vorpal hit with their main weapon (sword). It's the same in the unmodded game, though not all Balors are using the proper weapon. In both cases, the vorpal hit doesn't allow a save. For what it's worth, the next version of aTweaks will have an optional component which will allow Death Ward to protect the recipient against vorpal hits.

a melee Entangle effect without a save.

Actually, the Balors' secondary weapon (flaming whip) does allow a save vs. breath to avoid the entanglement effect. You can see the full stats of aTweaks' fiends, including their special abilities, in the readme.

[Alesia_BH]

 Asoka in Suldanessellar: Part 1

So long as I'm online, I might as well post on the first phases of Suldanessellar. Here it goes.

I still feel a little iffy when it comes to Suldanessellar. Since my 4 year break, 2 of my characters have been here. Alastria was killed due to pure unadulterated rust- she slept outdoors and was ambushed by Rhaksha's while spellless. Newbie error. In contrast, Alesia breezed through. However, her experience isn't especially helpful. I noted not too long ago that I often pair songs with stages of the adventure. Alesia's late SoA song is Starpower by Sonic Youth because she simply dominates that phase of the game. All of her enemies are just things in the way. A dragon, a goblin: it makes zero difference to her. Stuff just gets wiped away and obliterated.

Ashoka is a very capable character, but she can't just sweep away all who would stand before her. She's very nearly flying blind her. Hopefully she'll land safely nonetheless.

Ashoka began by establishing a base of operations. She chose the House of the Horn.


Then, she visited the site of Alastria's death and paid her respects. It looks like a safe place to sleep if you know nothing about Suldanessellar...


Time for Raamilat. The best Drow is a dead Drow wouldn't you agree? Futzed up the backstab here somehow. He was dropped quick despite the misstep.


Turned, and killed his pooch. Demons are Ashoka's racial enemies.


Then the Rhakshasa fight. This one was fun. The battle plan was an enjoyable one to work out and execute. I'll likely restrict use of this approach in future encounters. I'm sure it would get old quick.

Ashoka stealthed in and identified the most dangerous enemy.


She then tried to nix him.

Ok. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea...


The pre-buffs fired and then a whole lot of magic started flying around. Demin was pretty clearly toast and there wasn't much Ashoka could do about it. The Rhakshasa are immune to all weaponry at this point and have way more fire power at their disposal then Ashoka. Risking mortal injure to rescue what is effecitvely a corpse makes little sense.


The only sane thing to do at this point was hide. Hide or run that is...


Ashoka was just starting to feel comfortable when she heard the words that those stealthing via the Sandthief Ring fear above all others.


Ashoka was expecting Oracle here because it would stand to reason that 6 would be alocated to ProMW and other stuff. If it were Oracle, her counter would be a Potion of Invisibility. If it turned out to be True Sight, her counter would be run like hell.

And...


Nice.

They tried again, but again they went on the cheap. Come on guys, one of you has to have a spare level 6...


Once the AoE stuff simmered down, it was time for Ashoka to go to work. She had a clever little plan.

Ashoka: Simulacrum.


Simmy Ashoka: Potion of Invisibility


Simmy Ashoka: Cloak of the Sewers- Rat followed by Smite. With her Mighty Mouse transformation completed, Simmy Ashoka attacked Adsaan- Stunning him, knocking him back, and then attracting the attention of the other two Rhakshasa's while Ashoka prepared to break invisibility.



Ashoka  breaks with a Gessen Whirlwind on Adsaan. 


Once Mighty Mouse's Smite Stun wears off, he gets Smite via Gessen from Ashoka followed by Power Attack via Gessen from Ashoka. He's almost as screwed as Demin was earlier now. All the while, his buds are thwacking a 127% Slashing Resistant Rat.



Killing Blow.


Once Assan was down, Ashoka fed his buds some Gessen while Mighty Mouse absorbed their blows.



Fin.

As i said, I probably won't be doing that much in future battles. It was fun to plan out and execute the first time though. 


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 28 octobre 2011 - 01:26 .

[polytope]

Alesia_BH wrote...

It looks like Bodhi hired Firkraag's new chief of security- the one who rigged the game to hard crash. This guy is good...

Now I remember, the speed runners used a glitch to jump that door. It's pretty funny how most of the bosses sit around until charname has destroyed their entire army and faces them alone, the only exceptions I can think of are Yaga Shura and Sendai.

[Alesia_BH]

aVENGER_ wrote...
It's the same in the unmodded game, though not all Balors are using the proper weapon. In both cases, the vorpal hit doesn't allow a save.

The Underdark Balor is amongst those without the Vorpal Sword correct? His is just panic with a Save v Spells in Vanilla isn't it?

[Alesia_BH]

polytope wrote...
 It's pretty funny how most of the bosses sit around until charname has destroyed their entire army and faces them alone.

Yeah. Not exactly master planning is it...

Bodhi's variant is particularly ridiculous. It's basically: "I won't open the door so that you can kill me, untill you've killed all my children." Is that not the worst security scheme you've ever heard of?

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 28 octobre 2011 - 01:00 .

[aVENGER_]

Alesia_BH wrote...

The Underdark Balor is amongst those without the Vorpal Sword correct? His is just panic with a Save v Spells in Vanilla isn't it?

Right on.

The vorpal weapon (BALOR.ITM) is mainly used by the Balors that hang around Watcher's Keep and by the ones that Mellisan summons during the final battle.

[Alesia_BH]

@Amanasleep- Ashoka has come up with a way to get around the casting time issues with Call Lightning

I you spawn a Simmy with the Cloak of Reflection, and then cast Call Lightning on it, the Simmy will take no damage and can later "carry" the called lightning into battle. It will then spread to enemies.

[Alesia_BH]

Experimenting further...

The Simmy can carry the lightning into battle while stealthed. So, if your foes can't detect the invisible via script, they'll just think they're getting jacked by a really bad lightning storm...

Ashoka tried loading the Simmy up with multiple Call Lightnings. That didn't work for some reason though I think it may be worth trying again in a different way.

I'm not convinced that this is something that should be done in combat. It's kind of the Ranger equivalent of Sanctuary + Blade Barrier...

[AnonymousHero]

[quote]aVENGER_ wrote...
For what it's worth, the next version of aTweaks will have an optional component which will allow Death Ward to protect the recipient against vorpal hits.
[/quote]
That's probably a good idea.

[quote]a melee Entangle effect without a save.[/quote]

Actually, the Balors' secondary weapon (flaming whip) does allow a save vs. breath to avoid the entanglement effect. You can see the full stats of aTweaks' fiends, including their special abilities, in the readme.[/quote]

Thanks for all the info -- I think that information may actually have been available when I played... it's just that my monk actually had no viable way to defend against the vorpals.

Regarding the entangle: It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure all my monk's saves were negative and she was still entangled. Is there some (large, perhaps) penalty to the save vs. breath?

Note: I'm not necessarily complaining, I just mentioned it since it can end up limiting character choices for no-reload soloers greatly and the vorpals thing is not necessarily something one thinks about before installing mods .

Anyway, thanks for the information.

[aVENGER_]

AnonymousHero wrote...

Regarding the entangle: It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure all my monk's saves were negative and she was still entangled. Is there some (large, perhaps) penalty to the save vs. breath?

Nope, it's just a plain save vs. breath (no bonus, no penalty).

If your save boni came from a potion, perhaps they were dispelled beforehand? Note that aTweaks' Balors may cast Dispel Magic once per round (caster level 20th).

Modifié par aVENGER_, 28 octobre 2011 - 05:23 .

[Alesia_BH]

 Quick Note on Ashoka's Game:

Niz has fallen. Here's a quick summary.

Niz- Remove Magic
Counter- Potion of Magic Shielding (while wearing Shadow Dragon Armor) -> Hardiness->Armor of Faith

Niz- Acid Arrow (no effect)
Ashoka- Arrow of Dispelling.


The battle is basically over at this point. Ashoka has ranged damage immuntiy and the movement rate advantage. Even if Ashoka goofed and got decked, Niz couldn't really do meaningful damage.


Niz would have needed more Removes and an undispellable movement rate booster to be a threat. Finished with Critical Strike->Staff of Striking. It's a shame Ashoka got hit when she dealt the killing blow: no glamorous image of triumph for her.



She'll dial up Rillifane soon.

Best,

A.

Btw. Letting you Simmy "carry" Call Lightnings has it's positives and negatives.

Positive: Totally stealth lightning assault.


Negative: Totally POed Simmulacrum...


@Avenger- Your rebalanced Wizard Slayer looks interesting. I may give that a try. 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:39 .

[Alesia_BH]

 Quick Note on Ashoka's Game:

Just a quick comment on the "Mighty Mouse" move.

The basic test I use for cheesieness is this: if the tactic couldn't be written well, I reject it. If it can, I consider it useable and then let balancing concerns determine frequency of use. 

For example; "I approached the edge of the fog of war, and discharged my Wand of Cloudkill 5 times. My foes were helpless." That doesn't write well, so it's out of bounds.

The Mighty Mouse move in Demin's House writes pretty well actually...

(After the AoE Spells die down)

Rajah- "Ok. Where is she Adsaan. I really don't like this.."
Rhakshasa- "She has to be dead. We blasted this room with our magicks!"
Adsaan- "No young one. If she were dead, there would be a body. She's here. Somewhere..."

Rajah-"So what do we do then? We've already tried Oracle twice."
Adsaan- "Nothing. We do nothing. We wait. She'll reveal herself eventually.  And then, we'll finished her."

Rajah- "Ok. But I still don't like this..."

(A few seconds pass)

Rajah: "Hey Adsaan. What's that thing by your feet? Is that a rat?"

Rat: Smite! (Adsaan flies across the room stunned.)

Rajah and Rakshas: "Oh Frack! What is that thing! Kill it! Kill it!"

Ashoka: (Breaks invisibility with a Greater Whirlwind.)

Kind of fun actually. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Anyhoo. It's something I'd be willing to use once or twice in an adventure. Not every battle for sure.

Best,

A.

[Serg BlackStrider]

Alesia_BH wrote...

... (A few seconds pass)

Rajah: "Hey Adsaan. What's that thing by your feet? Is that a rat?"

Rat: Smite! (Adsaan flies across the room stunned.)

Rajah and Rakshas: "Oh Frack! What is that thing! Kill it! Kill it!"

I'm weeping... :lol:

Grats on taking down Niz, Alesia! :happy: Thy stories, as always, are both educational and entertaining.

BTW, why Niz doesn't use Plant Growth and Insect Plague, I wonder:huh: Did you smite him/her so fast that there were no chances for him/her to use that abilities?

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 28 octobre 2011 - 01:53 .

[Wierdo]

@Alesia

I'm still laughing about how cheesy your mighty mouse is ... oh I love a good pun!

The idea of a rat smiting enemies across the room is almost as crazy as a vorpal bunny. Those rakshasa dudes need holy hand grenades.

[aVENGER_]

Alesia_BH wrote...
@Avenger- Your rebalanced Wizard Slayer looks interesting. I may give that a try. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Thanks!

I wanted to stay as true to Bioware's original concept as possible while introducing a few additional elements which hopefully make the kit a bit more appealing. BTW, as some veteran players may recall, the 2% MR per level is actually how things were in the original BG2 (pre ToB).

[Alesia_BH]

Serg BlackStrider wrote...
Grats on taking down Niz, Alesia! :happy: Thy stories, as always, are both educational and entertaining.

Thanks for your comments.

BTW, why Niz doesn't use Plant Growth and Insect Plague, I wonder:huh: Did you smite him/her so fast that there were no chances for him/her to use that abilities?

Niz is immune to a lot of stuff in my install (instakill effects, etc). Stun and knockbacks are among her immunities. Ashoka wouldn't have wanted to lead with her aura at this phase anyways.

As for the plants and bugs: I'n not certain. I haven't really thought through the details of Niz's tactical options versus Ashoka (other than to observe that they aren't very good..). I'm not convinced it would have made sense for her to spend her aura on that druidic stuff. 

I'll share some screenshots from the early phases of the encounter.

Ashoka put some summons on the field. Niz had no interest in sitting back and waiting to see what Ashoka had planed. She charged and used Dragon Fear. So far, Niz is making sense. 


Note that Ashoka has Dragonslayer in the main and is thus immune to fear. She's also Improved Invisible untargetable and has a Potion of Invulnerabilty at that ready in case she has to make that nasty -10 against Plant Growth.

Then Niz goes Haste. That's a good call. 


Black Dragon breath on the summon that was boxing her- not an obvious misstep. I'm still not seeing a spot where Plant Growth and Insect plague would have been the clear correct call. Plant Growth would have just increased her odds of getting boxed by summons- she's better off letting them run aroun panicked. And even if Niz could target Ashoka with the Insect, Ashoka could just out run them.


Goes on the attack under Haste. Niz needs to get that Potion of Invulnerability and II off Ashoka so she goes Remove. 


Ashoka's counter is Potion of Magic Shielding -> Arrow of Dispelling at which point Niz is fracked no matter what she does given that she is out of Removes and Hastes. This is where the screen shots match up. 

Niz doesn't need bugs and plants to make a go of it: she needs more Level 3 slots.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 28 octobre 2011 - 05:15 .

[Alesia_BH]

Wierdo wrote...
I'm still laughing about how cheesy your mighty mouse is ... oh I love a good pun!.

[amanasleep]

Alesia, what if you target self with Call Lightning? Won't that carry to enemies?

On the general issue of Clerics, their ability to get off spells is significantly improved by using Sanctuary. Leaving aside the Blade Barrier cheese, there are many powerful tactics that revolve around this, particularly Heal/rebuff, but also things like Doom, Sanctuary, Slay Living, sneak attack.

[amanasleep]

double post.

Modifié par amanasleep, 28 octobre 2011 - 05:23 .

[Alesia_BH]

amanasleep wrote...

Alesia, what if you target self with Call Lightning? Won't that carry to enemies?

Probably. Ashoka has mostly been fiddling with the Simmy, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that works.

The Simmy doesn't seem to freak untill the 3rd one or so.

I'll probably let her Simmy or herself "carry" lightning into battle a few times. I do like the idea of lightning crashing down on foes as soon as Ashoka enters combat- especially since she's wielding Gessen and Celestial Fury these days.
The Air Elemental pairs nicely with all that style wise as well. 

On the general issue of Clerics, their ability to get off spells is significantly improved by using Sanctuary. Leaving aside the Blade Barrier cheese, there are many powerful tactics that revolve around this, particularly Heal/rebuff, but also things like Doom, Sanctuary, Slay Living, sneak attack.

Agreed. When I did my Priest of Talos-> Mage, Drella, I took to thinking of Sanctuary as being like a Chapter 2 Divine Improved Alactrity in that it gives you the opportunity to layer heavily during combat.

The problem is that tough foes aren't fooled by Sanctuary...

That's actually why I ended up dualing Drella. I had wanted to keep her a pure Cleric, but when she started encountering foes that could see her in her Sanctuary, I figured she'd need Vecna and Arcane buffs to make full use of her Cleric spells. I dualed her to make her a better Cleric- not to make her an arcane caster.

I may try going the other way some time: Mage->Cleric.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 28 octobre 2011 - 06:51 .

[Alesia_BH]

 Quick Note on Ashoka's Game:



Well said friends, well said.

Ashoka will face Irenicus soon.

Here's her current character record and inventory.



Best,

A.

Btw. Just a little pet peeve that I have with rangers...

Even though Ashoka can Charm a truly stupid number of animals...


she can't summon any...

If he has the kind of animal magnetism that makes squierrels stick to her clothes, you'd think she'd be able to convince a few to hang out with her from time to time...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 28 octobre 2011 - 08:17 .

[amanasleep]

I was thinking of Mage->Cleric as well. Dualing at M9 or M11 is easy enough, and gets you a lot of protection on the Arcane side. I also like it because a Cleric->Mage Dual can't help but end up more or less like a powerful mage, while the other way maximizes Cleric potential.