15218 réponses à ce sujet

[Alesia_BH]

corey_russell wrote...
What's really odd I I cast spell immunity with Aerie, and she wasnt' given a choice on what spell school to protect herself from? And incidentally she also died, so SI didn't help her any.

That's a common issue. When using Spell Immunity, you have to wait for the spell selection options to appear before clicking anything else. If, for example, you cast and then click on another party member while the caster is incanting the spell school options will not appear and the spell will be wasted. It's bedeviling if you don't know what's going on, but easily avoided if you do. 

corey_russell wrote...
 I didn't know fatigue affected spell damage, though that was only melee related, will keep that in mind.

With no fatigue, Chant, Luck and negative saves (-2 or lower), a Wilting from Lonk would do somewhere between 5 and 27 Hitpoints of damage to a BoIB equipped character.

Best,

A.

 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 24 décembre 2011 - 09:15 .

[Alesia_BH]

Incantatar wrote...
I dealt with it by immediate pausing after the rest (make sure no boots of speed on PC). Then let someone play bait with higher movement rate until he changes back.

Makes sense.

corey_russell wrote...
EDIT: Just thought of a maybe brilliant thing I could have done - cast invisibility 10' on the party before resting? Cody can't attack what he can't see!

Assuming the Slayer form doesn't get invisibility detection via script. I'm not sure whether it does or not. I've always just evaded the Slayer (as per Incantatar's remark) or used ProMW in party play.

 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 24 décembre 2011 - 09:03 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Alesia_BH wrote...
That's a common issue. When using Spell Immunity, you have to wait for the spell selection options to appear before clicking anything else. If, for example, you cast and then click on another party member while the caster is incanting the spell school options will not appear and the spell will be wasted. It's bedeviling if you don't know what's going on, but easily avoided if you do.

Furthermore, (according to other forum members, I haven't tested this exploit yet), if two people cast this spell (or the similar spell Enchanted Weapon) in such a way that they get to the selection at the same time, while one of them will necessarily waste their spell (as you cannot have both characters activated at the same time), the other one can pick as many many times as they want, enabling them to become immune to every single magic school with a single cast of Spell Immunity.

[Gate70]

Our day starts with a trip to the circus. Then we free Hendak and purchase a few items. The slaver compound is next, and then the apprentices in the house of Prebek. We deliver an assassin to Xzar then raid some stores and the first level of Watchers Keep for extra items.

Parr, LG human male cavalier.


Vindal, CG half orc male barbarian.


Laell, NG half elf female cleric/ranger.


Jan, CN gnome male illusionist/thief.


No party deaths so far, although Vindal has had half a dozen close calls in general melee.

Modifié par Gate70, 24 décembre 2011 - 10:48 .

[ussnorway]

Why is the Ranger/ Cleric multi in the party... wouldn't Ranger-Cleric dual or just Cleric fit better? It's your game Gate70 I'm just curious.

[Gate70]

I was going for FoA dual wield combat rather than spellcasting. Paladin will also be dual-wielding while the barbarian should get all 2 handed weapon pips.

Multi-class gets a good spread of HLA's. Just checked and dual class would get one ranger HLA at 3m xp, dualling means no more HLA's for another 2.5m xp then only cleric HLA's available from that point if I get to 5.5m xp in a full party. At least this is what occurs in my install (making me think about checking Sarevok dual-classing as can remember disappointment with this a few years back).

Downside is one less level 6 spell and four less level 7 spells according to the manual, which I have no idea on accuracy re this point.

[Grond0]

Don't think I've ever had a cleric/ranger that's got very far. However, I do remember having the same train of thought and concluding that the greater flexibility of the multi-classed version would be preferable (although that was geared to solo play).

[corey_russell]

a dual-wielding flails cleric/ranger does nice damage output. I think the only real reason to do something like a pure cleric is if you want the cleric summons.

[ussnorway]

I was a bit confused over the way you have her equipped (heavy armour = no stealth & the sling/shield combo) made me think you wanted her to stand up the back.

p.s. IMO the advantage of a true cleric is “turn undead”... on paper a Ranger-Cleric multi (or paladin for that matter) can attempt to turn but the reality is only a cleric can use it efficaciously.

[Gate70]

Understood, the Sling of Seeking is a cheap purchase and will do her all game but will switch to melee once I get the flail. Haven't got Joluv and won't console him in so no Defender of Easthaven.

How often do people use turn undead, have heard good things about it but usually forget.

[ussnorway]

I’m a big fan, particularly whilst safely tucked under ‘Sanctuary’... For my money evil clerics have it best.

[corey_russell]

When I attempt to turn undead, they usually just run, which I find annoying, so I only usually do it when the turning destroys them or they are an enclosed area.

[amanasleep]

R/C multi has a big advantage in HLA selections over the dual class. The dual class gets faster access to skeleton warriors, has a stronger dispel, a better turn undead, and more spell slots, particularly at level 7 where you neead them to cast Priest HLA's. But the multi has better saves, thac0, and most importantly more castings of Charm Animal!

I would say that Paladin turn undead is pretty effective. Straight up, a paladin will turn at about 3-4 levels below a cleric at the same xp for most of SOA. In ToB, the cleric advantage in turning maxes out at about 7 levels, but keep in mind you can explode liches at turning level 21.

[Gate70]

Ah but ussnorway has mentioned evil cleric, something a paladin cannot replicate. iirc evil clerics dominate or charm undead, e.g. you can gain a lich or similar for a while. Sounds interesting.

[polytope]

amanasleep wrote...

I would say that Paladin turn undead is pretty effective. Straight up, a paladin will turn at about 3-4 levels below a cleric at the same xp for most of SOA. In ToB, the cleric advantage in turning maxes out at about 7 levels, but keep in mind you can explode liches at turning level 21.

Only certain liches in the vanilla game (who are found as random spawns, not the named liches), because they are incorrectly coded as level 11 in spite of having multiple 9th level spells memorized.

Regarding good vs evil clerics, I think Holy Smite and (with SCS - not so important in vanilla) Holy Word are not worth giving up for the ability to command undead - controlling a lich comes in handy only if other enemies have joined the fight (maybe twice in the entire game).

[Gate70]

Parr, LG human male cavalier.

I decide to pay Gaelan Bayle while I have the cash note to self, get reputation reset in SOA for future runs. Laell takes both the Amulet of Power and a ring of protection +2 from Aran Linvail.

Aran has jobs for us. First we scare off Lassal then deal with two deserters and a contact for an opposing guild. Finally to investigate a vampire lair. I throw Azuredge from the rear, then grab a mace of disruption for Laell. Tanova is busy killing our summons while Jan uses detect invisibility and remove magic so Laella can MoD her.

Lassal is straightforward, kill his fledglings then a couple of hits upstairs culminating in MoD. Laell dooms Bodhi and with three of us pounding away she decides to leave quickly.

[corey_russell]

Vessen the level 24 cleric and band continues his adventure...

So it was time to deal with Gromnier. We did some buffs, mainly buffs to prevent the game ending on Vessen then approached Gromnir. To open, Imoen put a planetar right by Gromnir and mages, Vessen some bears in the same area, Joshua put up True Seeing and attacked the group of enemies by the stairs, Minsc and Lily attacked Gromnir directly, though Lily did after turning on her offensive spin. A few more rounds and the battle was going well, as you can see here:


We kept up the pressure, and success! Though they did manage to kill Imoen. Trhee people leveled so that was helpful.


We then went to the wilderness area, put up quite a few summons cast quite a few spells, but eventually Yaga-Shura's men were defeated.

[AnonymousHero]

Gate70 wrote...

Ah but ussnorway has mentioned evil cleric, something a paladin cannot replicate. iirc evil clerics dominate or charm undead, e.g. you can gain a lich or similar for a while. Sounds interesting.

I may be interesting, but I must say I prefer blowing them to smithereens.

There are a few fights where the charm/domination can be abused, but it I just find it extremely annoying having to actually maneouver the charmed/dominated undead into fighting each other. IIRC it doesn't really play very well with the AI and they'll frequently stutter and stop attacking each other, etc.

(The watcher's keep is one where you can potentially recruit a whole bunch of vampires and Liches to fight on your side in the final seal battle.)

The one really abusable way to use this is to recruit an army of vampires via Limited Wish + evil Turn Undead, thereby exceeding the the summoning limit and getting a level-draining army to boot. Of course, you need at least one mage and an evil cleric for this. Disclaimer: I can't say I've actually tried this, but that's the theory.

Given the number of situations where you really just want to kill the undead, I don't think it's worth the hassle.

Modifié par AnonymousHero, 26 décembre 2011 - 12:08 .

[Incantatar]

Just found out the whole Copper Coronet goes hostile when they see the first guard that attacks you after his warning. The more you know lol.

[corey_russell]

That reminds me when I had Edwina was in my group and I foolishly had him talk to Salvas(?) (the smooth talker in the Copper Coronet) - Edwina got so mad she fireballed him - but it also set about 1/2 the Copper Coronet hostile when that happened.

[Incantatar]

corey_russell wrote...

That reminds me when I had Edwina was in my group and I foolishly had him talk to Salvas(?) (the smooth talker in the Copper Coronet) - Edwina got so mad she fireballed him - but it also set about 1/2 the Copper Coronet hostile when that happened.

That's hilarious!

[Gate70]

Parr, LG human male cavalier.

We rescue a buried man, rescue Sansuki from Del and her vampires, help Jan with Lissa and the hidden, fob Sir Sarles off with fake illithium, get Cromwell to improve the MoD and obtain a pair of silver pantaloons.

The de'Arnise keep.
I equip the Stonefire axe, Vindal retains Lilacor while Laell duel wields the FoA +1 and iMoD. Jan uses the case of plenty bolts +1 unless we need traps, spells or flashers. Glaicus falls for a doom command combination, then we upgrade the FoA to +2. A golem cache means we can upgrade the FoA to +3 while I get a Frostreaver axe for my offhand. Two more groups of golems are dealt with before we descend. We feed then slaughter umber hulks before picking on Torgal. I decide to fight in the chapel for once.


Laell uses all her ironskins and half her health before Torgal is dead.

[Wierdo]

ussnorway wrote...

I was a bit confused over the way you have her equipped (heavy armour = no stealth & the sling/shield combo) made me think you wanted her to stand up the back.

Adding to this comment, don't ranger/clerics automatically get ** in dual wielding , which means shields rarely make sense for them??

The biggest advantage of R/Cs is that they can access druid spells as well. Not sure if this perk is avilable for ranger->cleric dualled characters.

Stealth becomes pretty irrelevant for a ranger if you have other thief stelathy-types available in the party.

[Gate70]

Yes, they get ** to start, Laell is now dual-wielding. Shields are still of value when tanking, especially if the Defender of Easthaven isn't available or at low level.

Druid spells are available for dual-classed characters. Ranger 1 > Cleric is the extreme case of this.

[Wierdo]

Gate70 wrote...

Yes, they get ** to start, Laell is now dual-wielding. Shields are still of value when tanking, especially if the Defender of Easthaven isn't available or at low level.

Yes, which is why I qualified with rarely. For example, if fighting against mind flayers or level draining undead, it makes sense for an R/C to equip a good quality shield.

Druid spells are available for dual-classed characters. Ranger 1 > Cleric is the extreme case of this.

VerY interesting. I can see myself abusing this at some point!