15218 réponses à ce sujet

[Gate70]

Congratulations.

I wasn’t sure what to expect with ascension

I'm not sure it adds to that battle - thought it focused on TOB.

[ussnorway]

The Readme said something about a Dragon and Elder Orb adds but all I got was a dead Ick... I've done the plain SCS 3 phase battle and that's what I'll go back too next time around but it's a bugger to end it that way.

p.s. Thanks Gate70.

Modifié par ussnorway, 26 mai 2012 - 08:36 .

[Gate70]

Sounds more like scs2 to me than ascension.

[ussnorway]

My mistake it is an SCS bug... I added an extra part from last time.

~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #7126 // Improved Irenicus in Hell (Tactics remix) -> Tactics-SCSII hybrid: v20

Thanks again Gate70, I'm getting old.

[PPewt]

You could always just import your character into ToB. Normally that'd be kind of cheating but if the game won't let you continue otherwise it seems only fair.

Modifié par PPewt, 26 mai 2012 - 08:23 .

[ussnorway]

I considered that but if I import her what about the rest of the party... can I just transfer the whole save game without breaking all the quests i.e. would ascension have Icky at the end or would it assume that I haven't killed him yet? Is it possible & allowed by the no-reload rules... What do you guys think?

Playing all the way to the end only to be bug buggered at the finish line is not something I'm looking forward to.

Modifié par ussnorway, 27 mai 2012 - 02:02 .

[PPewt]

Maybe you could import it as a multiplayer party?

Alternatively you could just solo illasera and then summon your party members + SK their items once you get to the pocket plane.

And I can't imagine why Ascension would be coded to assume you could get that far without killing Irenicus, but you never know.

You could also try reinstalling SCS and such and loading up Final-Save.

Modifié par PPewt, 27 mai 2012 - 03:47 .

[Grond0]

Kaxir (Gate70) and Nadir (Grond0). Session 7 (1h 45m; total run time 14h 0m) - final update

The session started well with an easy conquest of the Unseeing Eye thanks to liberal use of Balduran's shield.  The duo then moved on to take out the lich in the bridge district and then Gaxx - both of them undone by Kaxir's IMoD.

So that they could move at an equal pace (with boots of speed) the next stop was spellhold.  The initial stages were all easy enough, but then they tackled the lich and his undead army.  Kaxir took heavy damage and retreated a bit.  Nadir went past him turning every now and then to loose a shot from Azuredge.  With the greater mummies bearing down on Kaxir Nadir shouted for him to get away, but in vain and his icon disappeared in a spray of blood. 

The problem was that Kaxir was in his inventory trying to get the dwarven throwing hammer into action - we had both found the delays switching between dual wielding and missile weapons irritating before, so that's something that might need to be addressed in the next run.

Apart from the ending though that was a good run - very few dangerous moments and using melee characters keeps the game moving at a much better tempo than waiting for spellcaster buffs.  We'll probably have another go at the melee approach next time.

Kaxir kills 633 (30 in this session).
Nadir kills 770 (38 in this session).
Kaxir got resurrected 6 times before his luck ran out with the chunking - several of those were the consequence of the relative fragility of kensais.  We'll probably go with more robust characters next time

[Gate70]

Yep, my fault. I'd switched to the thrower which was one inventory hop to remove the offhand weapon, then added Daystar for a Sunray thinking Nadir was in melee. Didn't make it out of the inventory screen as a mummy used the lack of armour & -4 ranged melee to land a 33 hit.

All un-necessary as Nadir won the fight from that point. Sorry Grond0...

[corey_russell]

Guys let me share a thought -- Picenon did the ENTIRE SoA using sword and shield style. The extra defense, as well as always being able to run and shoot without needing to switch weapons around if the situation required it, supported this. I'm not saying you can't dual-wield, but perhaps the turtle has a point about being slow and sure...

Granted Kensai could only take advantage of this using single weapon plus ranged weapon, but perhaps it would have been worth it in a few situations...

Nice work getting as far you guys did though.

Oh, and Picenon planned ahead for the encounter you guys mentioned back in Athkatla, and brought a pro-undead scroll with him to spellhold....

Modifié par corey_russell, 28 mai 2012 - 12:26 .

[PPewt]

Meh, I'm not a huge fan of sword and shield style. Dual wielding lets you kill stuff much, much faster (the best defence is a good offence) and AC is kind of unreliable, especially at higher levels; no-reloads are all about consistency, and if you get too reliant on AC it's easy to lose the game due to a bad roll or two. For a non-game losing but relevant example, in my current BG1 no-reload I was clearing some Ankhegs and had myself, Viconia, Shar-Teel, and Kagain at melee. One of the ankhegs randomly switched to targeting Viconia, which I didn't think much of because with -4 AC (+1 shield, plate mail, 19dex etc) they had a terrible chance to hit her. However, it rolled well and hit twice in a row and she died before I could react.

The only really good reason to go Sword and Shield Style is that the Shield of Harmony gives lots of non-luck based bonuses which can be very decisive in a no-reload game.

[corey_russell]

Guess I forgot to mention an important detail -- I was in fact solo, so used the SoH until well into the negatives for saves. Also I DID switch to dual wield in ToB, as I needed it for the mass of enemies there.

As a good example of use of sword and shield - I had -12 AC when I battled the trolls in the druid grove. Sure the kills were a bit slow (although not that slow with the 2 Gaxx rings I had), but they couldn't hit me except with criticals.

As for low HP characters like Viconia, AC isn't her best defense, as multiple criticals can easily take her down, as you noted. Best low HP characters stay in the back and not take any contact at all, though I guess massively buffed characters like mages or bards could be in front with low HP.

[ussnorway]

I think it depends on the class... A Bard/ Cleric has sad ThacO so I only DW at the end of SoA where their items start to help out but a warrior can DW pretty much from the get go.

IMO The bottom line is PPPP (proper, planning, prevents, poor, performance) but if you really NEED to change weapons during battle then perhaps you could script the weapon change into a keyboard macro?

[Gate70]

ussnorway wrote...
IMO The bottom line is PPPP

Harsh, but true

[corey_russell]

Goodguy (level 8 cleric/level 8 illusionist controlled by Corey_Russell) and Badgirl (level 7 fighter/level 9 thief controlled by Dogdancing) continuing their trilogy no-reload challenge in BG 2...

Goodguy is continuing his quest with his partner in crime Badgirl after the duo defeated Sarevok. So far, the first level of Irenicus dungeon has been cleared. We did not cheat in any items (like a bag of holding), so we will be definitely recruiting Yoshimo, only to be kicked out (or perhaps killed) once we get out of the dungeon.

For the difficult fights, such as the duergars and the stunning mephits, we used 5 skeletons to insure victory. Most other fights that were even a bit challenging, we used hold persons and MMMs. Yet again, the import of characters got Goodguy's HP wrong (too high in this case) so we had to use SK to put them back to his ending BG 1 HP (40).

Goodguy's character sheet:


Badgirl's character sheet


The intention is to duo the entire trilogy. We might let NPCs join temporarily for their quests, but we haven't decided yet. For sure fights such as Irenicus will be the duo only.

Setup:
Vanilla BG 2
Throne of Bhaal Expansion
Official ToB patch
Core Rules at all times (including level ups and spell scribes)

[Triaxx2]

The thing about sword and board is that since you're only using the primary weapon, You can use either throwing axes (Trilogy) or returning weapons to minimize the amount of direct combat you engage in by using the ranged ability to thin the herd before engaging.

[Krazy Solo]

Ok I've been planning my next entry. Currently my choices are a Dual class Fighter/Thief or Multiclass Fighter/Mage, Ranger/Cleric, Fighter/Cleric. The Dual class would have Anomen, Imoen, and Nalia as the NPC of choice. I've decided a Female Human Kensai to start dual over to a Thief, she would probably wait until lvl 13 Kensai but i'm uncertain if it would be worth the 4 extra lvls of Fighter. The Multiclass would have Jan Jansen, Jaheira, and Aerie as the NPC of choice. I've decided a Male Gnome, Elf, Dwarf, or Half-Elf would work.

As you can see the idea behind the party make up was to allow only dual or multiclass characters. For the Dual class playthrough I will have Yoshimo tag along until Brynnlaw which I get Imoen back. The main issue with the Dual class is deciding when to Dual class. This is a major point as I'm uncertain when the best lvl to do it 9 or 13. I know lvl 13 will net me the full AB of Fighter, but not certain how big that extra 1/2 attack will matter in the end game tbh. The multiclass is pretty self explained.   I could go Elf or Half-Elf allow the romances or go Dwarf or Gnome for power gaming flavor.

What I like to know is whether or not lvl 9 or lvl 13 is better for the Dual class. Also any advice for either will be appreciated since I've never really done a Dual or Multiclass playthrough. Most of all my experience is single class.

Modifié par Krazy Solo, 30 mai 2012 - 02:33 .

[ussnorway]

Level 13 is better than level 9 (a no brainer) but the trouble is keeping the bugger alive!
Q; Are you going to play BG1?
A; dual early.
Otherwise go for the 13 to max out your hit points and Thac0... something like a bow that keeps you out of direct combat will help with staying alive. IMO Kensai-thief is more of a solo backstabbing character and not the best idea for a full party but it's your game so enjoy.

[Krazy Solo]

After thinking about what I posted, it seems I might find the Kensai Thief playthrough a bit nausiating and boring. Nothing wrong with the character just seems I would not find the experience entertaining so to speak.

So I am gonna just drop that from possible playthrough focus more on Multi playthrough. Seems I neglected to mention previously that Fighter/Cleric and Ranger/Cleric are also possible choices. Ultimately It comes down to do I want to be a force of doom aka Fighter/Mage or a Force of Righteous with the R/C or F/C.

Since the party is going to be Charname, Jaheira, Jan Jansen, and Aerie, I was thinking maybe F/M would be redundant at least far as Arcane spells goes.  This also brings me to another issue, I know the Ranger/Cleric combo is bugged with the access of the higher lvl druidic spells, is it wise to even play this mc option knowing that is bugged?  Now in regard to the Fighter/Cleric, what race would be best for this combo?

Remember all class combination is concidering multiclass only.

Modifié par Krazy Solo, 30 mai 2012 - 02:40 .

[corey_russell]

@Krazy Solo: it depends a little bit on what kind of fighter/cleric you want.
Half-Orc: raw melee power, with possible 19 to both STR and CON
Dwarf: 19 CON also, but poison and magic resistance too - penalty to DEX, so not quite as as good with the sling
Gnome: Great saves, but penalty to wisdom
Half-elves don't seem quite as good as these 3.Their only advantage would seem to be that they don't get a penalty to anything.

It's your choice of course, but if you're wanting a suggestion, a gnomish fighter/cleric seems like a solid choice, since spellcasters are usually much more of a threat than most melees. The penalty to wisdom is not critical.

[Krazy Solo]

@corey: Well regarding the type of F/C i was thinking something along the lines of a tankish F/C. Which would lean more toward a Dwarf/Half-Orc it would seem, but I'm not experience in the non Elf/Human races. I have little experiences with Dwarves, but not enough to base any proven methods.

For some reason I can't picture my PC being a short character. For that I might only concider Half-Orc or Half-Elf, but I wont rule out the shorties just leaning against them for asthetic reasons.

Modifié par Krazy Solo, 30 mai 2012 - 03:42 .

[PPewt]

Personally I don't really see any reason to play a F/C over a C/R. F/M is by far the strongest but if you want to play a cleric then a C/R is a no-brainer.

Triaxx2 wrote...

The thing about sword and board is that since you're only using the primary weapon, You can use either throwing axes (Trilogy) or returning weapons to minimize the amount of direct combat you engage in by using the ranged ability to thin the herd before engaging.

You can hold a throwing weapon while dual wielding and your offhand weapon will even hit at range.

Modifié par PPewt, 30 mai 2012 - 03:50 .

[Grond0]

Assuming your constitution is maxed then a dwarf F/C would have nearly all their saving throws 5 better than a C/R. That's a huge difference if you were playing solo. In a party it's much less decisive because of the availability of arcane buffs from others and the possibility of your main character staying back behind everyone else.

As you are suggesting using the protagonist as a tank I would personally go for the dwarf rather than the half-elf, but if you decide differently for aesthetic reasons that's fine. By the way I wouldn't class the R/C ability to cast higher level druidic type spells as a bug. Effectively the ranger heritage allows a R/C to bend the divine power they are channelling a bit further than a standard cleric, but I don't really see why that ability should suddenly shut off at higher levels.

[Grond0]

PPewt wrote...
You can hold a throwing weapon while dual wielding and your offhand weapon will even hit at range.

You must have a mod than allows that - you can't have a throwing weapon equipped when dual wielding in vanilla (which is a particularly annoying thing about the game). 

It is still possible in vanilla to get additional ranged damage with an offhand weapon as you say, e.g. if a fighter/mage is dual-wielding and uses MMM.

[PPewt]

Grond0 wrote...

PPewt wrote...
You can hold a throwing weapon while dual wielding and your offhand weapon will even hit at range.

You must have a mod than allows that - you can't have a throwing weapon equipped when dual wielding in vanilla (which is a particularly annoying thing about the game). 

It is still possible in vanilla to get additional ranged damage with an offhand weapon as you say, e.g. if a fighter/mage is dual-wielding and uses MMM.

Oh, whoops, I figured magical throwing weapons worked the same way as normal ones, but it appears they don't. Never mind then unless you're a F/M.

--

RE F/C vs C/R, a Cleric solo doesn't need to be quite as careful about saves thanks to their host of awesome buffs (Chaotic Commands, Death Ward etc) and the Ranger instead of Fighter gets some extremely powerful spells (Iron Skins, Creeping Doom/Insect Plague notably) which are just too good to pass up. In addition, as I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of relying on saves unless there is no possible alternative (non-caster solo run, but even then you should go for items which grant immunities): in a no-reload if you leave yourself any chance of dying it'll happen eventually.

Modifié par PPewt, 30 mai 2012 - 05:13 .