Aphril and Adara fight in Teleport Fields,
Of course, Fireshields make little sense in your current style.
How many Teleport Fields do you cast to reliably keep foes at bay? Two at a time?
Baldur's Gate 2 No-Reload Challenge
Débuté par
corey_russell
, juil. 14 2010 01:45
#12901
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 04:11
Blackraven
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Retour en haut
#12902
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 04:34
Alesia_BH
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Of course, Fireshields make little sense in your current style.
Yeah. It's not just the Teleport Fields. Their effective ACs are all in the negative teens thanks to Spirit Armor + Blur + Improved Invisibility + Pro Evil. Melee fighter rarely get an attack roll in and when they do most have a 1/5 or 1/10 or 1/20 chance of landing. Teleport Fields alone are powerful. AC buffs alone are powerful. Intersected, they are devastating.
How many Teleport Fields do you cast to reliably keep foes at bay? Two at a time?
Yes, two. Although one is usually enough, given the team's AC buffs.
The standard opening is:
Round1: Sunfire x3/MMM
Round 2: Teleport Field x 2 + Holy Smite/MMM
In many cases, such as the Samia fight, that's basically a check mate. The Sunfires eliminate the casters in round 1, and the Teleport Fields neutralize the warriors by round 2. All that remains it to finish them.The exceptions are battles where the caters run Pro Fire. The casters we've encountered so far haven't been able to penetrate the team's buffs, however. They've done no harm, even when they've lingered.
Best,
A.
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#12903
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 04:44
Alesia_BH
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Never got that far with SCS v30. My experience is with v21 (and maybe 28). It's possible I tried with the wrong spells (i.e. spells that require a limited distance) when Cernd was in the pit. It's been a long time, I can't really remember.
The part that surprised me was that your pre-buffs were dispelled at the start of the fight. I've never seen that.
Best,
A.
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#12904
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 07:13
Serg BlackStrider
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The part that surprised me was that your pre-buffs were dispelled at the start of the fight. I've never seen that.
If memory serves me well, in my setup (SCS2 v.21) Jaheira also was debuffed when she faced Faldorn in the pit. I have a save at the beginning of the Grove so might be able to make a quick invisible run-through the Grove and then challenge her to make sure.
But if I'm not mistaken, CKT is running SCS v.30 sans Tactical Challenges so in his setup Faldorn is not *improved* as Avenger and not that hard to deal with (no Improve Invisibility at the start of combat so Insect Plague from Cernd might be all that is needed).
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#12905
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 10:37
Alesia_BH
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But if I'm not mistaken, CKT is running SCS v.30 sans Tactical Challenges so in his setup Faldorn is not *improved* as Avenger
That's right. Good catch, Serg.
Best,
A.
- Blackraven aime ceci
#12906
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 01:56
Grond0
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Wrecking Crew {13} - dwarf fighters (update 1)
Al's gang of dwarven thugs has made a start on the next phase of their adventures. In the dungeon they immediately took their 9th levels (already earned in BG1, but not taken there) before grabbing some basic equipment. That proved sufficient to overwhelm an ogre mage
Spoiler
and the party quickly moved on (in real time - in game time they were doing lots of resting as they're not using healing potions). I couldn't remember for a moment whether the cambion was upgraded in this installation, but it soon became apparent that it wasn't.
Spoiler
Near the exit I thought Ulvaryl might get away, with only Baby Face having a weapon that could harm her. Al tried to use vampiric touch on her when she got to near death, but that was so slow casting that Baby Face actually managed to hit her again to get the killing blow.
Spoiler
They quickly set the circus to rights
Spoiler
before checking in with Gaelan Bayle. Then they went off to the Docks where they came across Hareishan. I felt general principles required me to attack, although Baby Face was still the only one with a viable weapon. However, Hareishan attacked Carlo, who has the best defences in the Crew, and only managed to hit him just as she died from a LMD from Al.
Spoiler
Despite that relative success, Carlo was still keen to improve his defence further and Officer Dirth was happy to oblige.
Spoiler
Travelling to the Bridge District the gang was ambushed by Suna Seni. However, the mage had made the mistake of not having a stoneskin pre-applied and a volley of shots killed him before he could remedy that - the rest of the ambushers quickly joined him in death.
Spoiler
On arrival they went straight to sort out the skinner murders with a view to maximising their reputation. Carlo used Arbane to ensure no-one was paralysed by the ghasts, but the party took lots of backstab damage and the golem also hit hard while being a bit slow to kill due to most of the gang lacking proficient magical weapons. As a result Bugsy was killed by it and Al had to join in the fray himself to help finish it off.
Spoiler
After raising Bugsy and restoring Carlo they reported in to Lt Aegisfield. They killed some attacking muggers and shadow thieves left behind by Salia, but principles or no principles they drew the line at tackling Del & 2 other vampires without decent weapons and left Sansuki to it on his own. Carlo gambled and won against a petrification trap while collecting the berserker horn before the gang headed for their natural home in the slums.
Stats (cont. from BG1)
Al - L9, 99 HPs, 642 kills, ***** longbow / ** long sword
Carlo - L9, 100 HPs (incl. 5 from Helm, -9 from Claw), 643 kills, 2 deaths, ***** flail / ** sling
Baby Face - L9, 94 HPs, 641 kills, 1 death, ***** 2-handed sword / ** crossbow
Bugsy - L9, 102 HPs, 348 kills, 3 deaths, ***** katana / ** dart
Vito - L9, 98 HPs, 570 kills, 1 death, ***** halberd / ** shortbow
Mad Dog - L9, 85 HPs, 440 kills, 1 death, ***** axe / ** 2-weapon
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#12907
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 02:24
Alesia_BH
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Glad to see the Crew off to a good start, Grond0.
Best,
A.
Btw. Are you using the Improved Chateau component, Grond0? I was surprised to hear you were able to rest.
#12908
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 02:26
Alesia_BH
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Quick Note on Aphril's Game:
Aphril and Adara have reached level 14. Now with Ruby Rays, a large stack of Breach scrolls, and Globe of Invulnerability in Aerie's book, they are ready for the Planar Sphere. They should complete the quest this afternoon.
Best,
A.
#12909
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 03:31
Grond0
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Btw. Are you using the Improved Chateau component, Grond0? I was surprised to hear you were able to rest.
I do have that component, yes. Not sure about resting if that restriction is still intended to be in place in v30. This installation is very cut down, so I don't there's anything else that could be interfering with SCS.
Spoiler
#12910
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 03:59
Alesia_BH
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I do have that component, yes. Not sure about resting if that restriction is still intended to be in place in v30. This installation is very cut down, so I don't there's anything else that could be interfering with SCS.
Noted.
According to the Read Me, the rest restriction should still be in place. i wouldn't worry about it, but do be on the look out for other anomalies.
Best,
A.
Btw. When you get to the Druid Grove, can you do me a favor and pre-buff Cernd a little before the Faldorn fight? I'd be interested in hearing whether his buffs are dispelled.
#12911
Guest_GrimJim_*
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 05:50
Guest_GrimJim_*
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FWIW, I've played through an SCS v30 install a few times and I don't recall Cernd's buffs being removed at the start of the Faldorn fight. The most reliable method I found was to accept Cernd into the party, buff him, especially with haste and werewolf form, remove him from the party, and then ask him to fight Faldorn. When I did it this way, Faldorn's pre-buffs didn't fire and Cernd easily won. Rather metagamey, but IMO it's a bug that Faldorn beats Cernd when he fights her out of the party.
Regarding resting in Irenicus's dungeon, the way it's implemented is a little sloppy. The code that guarantees that resting isn't safe after your first rest is triggered by the dialogue Imoen has with you after your first rest. So if Imoen leaves the party before your first rest, you'll actually be guaranteed to have safe rests.
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#12912
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 05:58
Blackraven
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Friends, a question:
Glorydd survived Chateau Irenicus and did some quests in Athkatla, when something problematic happened: one of four Mummies in the crypts in the Graveyard District Paralyzed her with fear. My aTweaks readme gives the following specifications of Mummies' Aura of Fear:
"The mere sight of a Mummy causes such terror in any creature that a saving throw versus spell must be made or the victim becomes paralyzed with fright for 2 rounds. Humans save against mummies with a bonus of +2."
With her Dwarven save bonuses, her Helm of Balduran, Claw of Kazgaroth and Sarevok's upgraded Ring of Protection all found in Irenicus' dungeon, Glorydd's save vs spell was 0. Unless I need some maths classes, the conclusion should be that aTweaks' Aura of Fear effect is bugged no? (Mind you, I'm not talking about Greater Mummies, whose Aura of Fear requires a save at -3 and lasts 4 rounds. There were no Greater Mummies in the crypts.)
Curiously, Glorydd had been near those Mummies for a few rounds, slaying more Undead, and I was positive I saw her save vs spell even with a roll of 1 once. Unfortunately I have no screenshot of that because at the time it seemed correct game behavior.
Glorydd was Protected from Undead when she got held, but when I saw that protection expire and the Mummies moved to attack her, I got annoyed and I impulsively quit without waiting to see if she would survive her plight. I then reloaded to check whether her save vs spell was indeed 0, which it was. Again she saved vs spell once with a roll of 1. See here for the relevant part of her combat log. There were no other spell effects she had to save against, only saves vs death (Ghasts' nausea effect), so the save vs spell on a 1 roll must have been against a Mummy's Aura of Fear.
Nevertheless she got Paralyezed once again. I waited this time and saw her survive two rounds of paralyzation. She quaffed a potion of clarity and proceeded to kill the Mummies, which is where my game currently stands.
Did I just break the forum's no-reload rules? Do you people agree that this is a bug? Or did I miss something?
- Golden28 aime ceci
#12913
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 06:26
corey_russell
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Blackraven: According to my research the mummies despair ability is a simple save vs. spells. If you save vs. spells was 0, then I don't know how you were affected. Does appear to be a bug. You weren't malisoned from an earlier fight or anything? Doomed maybe? What did you engage just before fighting the mummies?
#12914
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 06:42
Grond0
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FWIW, I've played through an SCS v30 install a few times and I don't recall Cernd's buffs being removed at the start of the Faldorn fight. The most reliable method I found was to accept Cernd into the party, buff him, especially with haste and werewolf form, remove him from the party, and then ask him to fight Faldorn. When I did it this way, Faldorn's pre-buffs didn't fire and Cernd easily won. Rather metagamey, but IMO it's a bug that Faldorn beats Cernd when he fights her out of the party.
Regarding resting in Irenicus's dungeon, the way it's implemented is a little sloppy. The code that guarantees that resting isn't safe after your first rest is triggered by the dialogue Imoen has with you after your first rest. So if Imoen leaves the party before your first rest, you'll actually be guaranteed to have safe rests.
Nice solution to Faldorn, which I agree has a ridiculous result otherwise. I wouldn't mind a fair fight with him out of the party, but Cernd simply rolling over and waiting to die isn't really on.
Virtually all my runs have a strict no recruitment policy for NPCs. It always annoys me that it's not possible to avoid recruiting Imoen at the start of BG2, but she gets kicked out within a few seconds which explains the resting issue.
#12915
Guest_GrimJim_*
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 06:47
Guest_GrimJim_*
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I've tested this fairly extensively, and at least in my non-EE install, you actually need a save vs. spell of -1 to guarantee success against an unmodified save. For whatever reason, 1 and 0 are not good enough. Strangely, save vs. death does not have this issue and a save vs. death of 1 is good enough to guarantee success for an unmodified roll.
I should comment on some other things I found in my Ascension + SCS v30 games:
The "Retrieve Dropped Items from Hell" component caused my game to not be transferred over to ToB after beating Irenicus in Hell. That is, the save still showed up on the same menu as my SoA saves even though I was doing ToB content. This eventually lead to game breaking bugs. It's easily fixed by making a save as soon as you reach the Grove of the Ancients and then importing that save into ToB.
In the Abazigal fight, Tamah did not spawn and Abazigal did not have his SCS script. I think you can check if you have this bug by opening up dragblue.cre in NearInfinity or some similar tool and checking what the class script is. If it's abazdrag.bcs, then it's bugged. On the SCS forum, Mad Mate posted instructions for fixing the installer and I think I know how to manually fix it.
I'll put this next one in spoilers because it affects a major encounter and I'm only 99% sure that it's a bug.
Spoiler
I've seen it frequently mentioned that you need an unmodified charisma of 16 to recruit Balthazar for the Throne fight or that you cannot recruit him if you are evil, but neither of these are the case. You just need 19 wisdom and reputation which pretty much any character can get. I wrote up a full spoiler of how the conversation works
Spoiler
#12916
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 06:57
corey_russell
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Thanks for the info GrimJIm - this explains some things. Grond0 had a run where his save vs. spells was -3 but he got hit with a symbol:stun by a lich doing the Unseeing Eye quest, even though in theory -3 would be good enough. You analysis seems to indicate Grond0 would have needed a -5 to guarantee successful save.
#12917
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 07:00
Grond0
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Glorydd was Protected from Undead when she got held, but when I saw that protection expire and the Mummies moved to attack her, I got annoyed and I impulsively quit without waiting to see if she would survive her plight. I then reloaded to check whether her save vs spell was indeed 0, which it was. Again she saved vs spell once with a roll of 1. See here for the relevant part of her combat log. There were no other spell effects she had to save against, only saves vs death (Ghasts' nausea effect), so the save vs spell on a 1 roll must have been against a Mummy's Aura of Fear.
Nevertheless she got Paralyezed once again.
I've seen this sort of effect numerous times (and quite often died to it 
- I see Corey has just referred to one such occasion while I'm drafting this!). I'm not certain of the reason, but I think the game fails to calculate stacked save bonuses correctly some of the time. If you regularly keep an eye on your saving throws you will probably see the odd occasion where the published save figure in the character record changes without any obvious reason.
- corey_russell aime ceci
#12918
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 07:06
corey_russell
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Hmm wait a minute, I just remembered something - in Vanilla BG 2, the positve effects of the Claw of Kazagaroth can be dispelled (it shouldn't of course, but it's just a bug) - e.g., thus re-loading would probably reset that. Can that be a factor here?
#12919
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 07:46
Blackraven
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Thanks everyone for their insights.
There were no Malisons or Dooms. And the Claw's effects should not have been dispelled. (The only enemy who could have dispelled was Rayic Gethras, but Glorydd went downstairs to avoid his Remove Magic).
Ok, so what seems to have happened is a temporary incorrect calculation of Glorydd's save vs spell as suggested by GrimJim and Grond0, even though I've never noticed this (perhaps I should check more often). If this happens frequently, then I guess it doesn't really justify a reload does it?
- Golden28 aime ceci
#12920
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 08:11
corey_russell
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Thanks everyone for their insights.
There were no Malisons or Dooms. And the Claw's effects should not have been dispelled. (The only enemy who could have dispelled was Rayic Gethras, but Glorydd went downstairs to avoid his Remove Magic).
Ok, so what seems to have happened is a temporary incorrect calculation of Glorydd's save vs spell as suggested by GrimJim and Grond0, even though I've never noticed this (perhaps I should check more often). If this happens frequently, then I guess it doesn't really justify a reload does it?
Blackraven: It's your call. You have to ask yourself - does this bug warrant a reload? Only you can answer that, you were in the situation, not us. Not all bugs warrant a reload, but it's the player's call, especially if it's not very clear.
- Golden28 aime ceci
#12921
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 08:28
corey_russell
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I don't know if this helps Blackraven, but I often get the "talking" bug - e.g. my character won't talk to a NPC. But if I reload, and change nothing, then they can talk fine. Appears to have something to do with modern Windows, as this bug never happened on my Win98 machine.
On my install, my Claw of Kazagaroth saving bonuses can be dispelled. (this is addressed in fixpack I think). I don't reload if this causes me a problem, because I just accept it as how the game engine works. Grond0 had the talking to merchants pauses the game mod, and yet he was killed while trying to sell during combat (Bill). This is vanilla behavior, and he accepted the result - I would have done the same.
So perhaps you should accept the reload since this is the 1st time you encountering this behavior that you know of, and perhaps just be cognizant in the future that you need -1 to guarantee a unmodified save vs. spells, as GrimJim indicates.
#12922
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 08:30
Alesia_BH
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I've seen it frequently mentioned that you need an unmodified charisma of 16 to recruit Balthazar for the Throne fight or that you cannot recruit him if you are evil, but neither of these are the case. You just need 19 wisdom and reputation which pretty much any character can get. I wrote up a full spoiler of how the conversation works
I can confirm that Grim Jim is correct here. I did some testing with this a few weeks ago after someone called the Balthazar recruitment mechanic to my attention.
For many, I was the source of the charisma related misinformation. My prior understanding of the Balthazar recruitment rule had been based on the Ascension read me which states:
Q: How can I convince Balthazar to join me?
A: ...Have a reputation greater than 18. Have a Wisdom greater than 15 (drink a potion for 18, having 19 is even better). Have a Charisma greater than 15. Pick the right dialogue options.
Note the line "have a charisma greater than 15." I had never tested whether this was a requirement. I just built all of my characters in such a way that the stated "requirements" were met. Based on recent testing, I now know that that the read me's list indicates all the things that can help, not all the things that are needed.
My belief that the check was on unmodified charisma was based on second hand reports from the old forums. Again, this is not something I ever tested, nor was it something I was in a position to evaluate in game since all my characters had charisma of 16 or higher.
I'm not sure if I ever stated that evil characters can not recruit Balathazar. The read me always said:
A: Be of Good or Neutral alignment (rumors indicate that you can do it with Evil if you are very wise and charismatic).
If I ever said something about evil characters being incapable of recruiting him, what I meant, really, was that I couldn't recruit him with evil characters, because I didn't know the dialogue options, and I didn't know the exact requirements.
Anyhoo. In general, I think that the rule of thumb test before you believe is a good one when it comes to BG mechanics. I usually follow that. I didn't when it came to the Balthazar recruitment mechanic. Sorry about that.
Best,
A.
#12923
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 08:35
Blackraven
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I don't know if this helps Blackraven, but I often get the "talking" bug - e.g. my character won't talk to a NPC. But if I reload, and change nothing, then they can talk fine. Appears to have something to do with modern Windows, as this bug never happened on my Win98 machine.
On my install, my Claw of Kazagaroth saving bonuses can be dispelled. (this is addressed in fixpack I think). I don't reload if this causes me a problem, because I just accept it as how the game engine works. Grond0 had the talking to merchants pauses the game mod, and yet he was killed while trying to sell during combat (Bill). This is vanilla behavior, and he accepted the result - I would have done the same.
So perhaps you should accept the reload since this is the 1st time you encountering this behavior that you know of, and perhaps just be cognizant in the future that you need -1 to guarantee a unmodified save vs. spells, as GrimJim indicates.
Thanks Corey. I'll give it a thought. I've really never encountered this before even though I've had shorty, saves-dependent Charnames aplenty.
I do remember, I think, Grond0 having this before in his install with a FoD killing his characters when their saves should have protected them.
(Btw in my current install Kazgaroth can also be dispelled, happened in BG1, despite Fixpack.)
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#12924
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 08:36
corey_russell
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@Alesia: I hardly think anyone blames you - you are just human, yes?
In my early no-reload days, I was a source of a rumor, which I unwittingly spread for some time, that you needed good CHA to make Bassilus dispel his minions. Eventually someone did some tests and we got the rumor squashed - it had to do with the fog of war why sometimes they wouldn't all die not CHA.
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#12925
Posté 17 juillet 2015 - 08:39
Alesia_BH
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I've tested this fairly extensively, and at least in my non-EE install, you actually need a save vs. spell of -1 to guarantee success against an unmodified save. For whatever reason, 1 and 0 are not good enough. Strangely, save vs. death does not have this issue and a save vs. death of 1 is good enough to guarantee success for an unmodified roll.
Very interesting, Grim Jim. I'm glad you've popped out of hiding. You've already made some valuable contributions to the thread.
I've never witnessed this behavior personally, probably because my rule of thumb has alway been to keep my save v spells substantially negative so that I'd be in a position to counter Malison with a Potion of Stone Form or a Potion of Invulnerability, even against modified spells.
While I haven't witnessed it personally, I'm inclined to believe Grim Jim, since it would explain a number of odd deaths that have occurred in the challenge over the years.
I'd be interested in learning more about the mechanic. Thanks again, Grim Jim!
Best,
A.
