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Baldur's Gate 2 No-Reload Challenge


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#13601
Blackraven

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To begin with, I'm worried about the opening fight. I expect Imoen to turn hostile and transform into the Slayer. I'm not sure what will happen to her buffs when that occurs. Will she lose her resistances, like shapshifted characters often do? And if so, how do we AoE insta-kill the Fallen Solars with Imoen in the way? Wilting and Dragon's Breaths are terribly slow. I kind of wish I had brought a Protection from Magic scroll for Slayer Immy.

How do we keep Balthazar from killing Slayer Imoen?

Have you any idea what happens to Slayer Imoen? Will she return as Slayer Imoen in you cast Freedom after the opening fight?
 

And then there's the final fight with Mel and the 5. How do we manage Imoen, Adara, and Aerie's buffs over an extended fight? That worries me. I wouldn't want to lose one of them.

I've seen you Wish-rest quite a few times. Do you expect there won't be any time for casting that spell? 
With IA you can rebuff superfast. Note that I'm no expert at all. It's been three years since I first and last did the final battle in SCS/Ascension.
 


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#13602
Alesia_BH

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Have you any idea what happens to Slayer Imoen? Will she return as Slayer Imoen in you cast Freedom after the opening fight?
 

 

The PC's slayer form is immune to Imprisonment. I'm inclined to assume that Slayer Imoen will be immune as well.

 

Imoen will revert to her own form and rejoin the party after one turn.

 

I want Bodhi and those Fallen Solars dead within a fraction of a round. 

 

 

I've seen you Wish-rest quite a few times. Do you expect there won't be any time for casting that spell? 

 

 

Adara's primary job will be to Wish, although I question whether she'll be able to use PIs effectively without Vecna in the presence of Mel.

 

Aphril will be wishing, too. I don't expect us to run out of spells.

 

 

With IA you can rebuff superfast. Note that I'm no expert at all. It's been three years since I first and last did the final battle in SCS/Ascension.
 

 

With IA and Vecna you can rebuff super fast. Without Vecna, not so much. Without IA or Vecna not at all.

 

Only Aphril will have Vecna. Aerie still doesn't have a L9 slot. It's a problem. We'll need a plan.

 

I wouldn't be worried on Core. On Insane, I'm concerned.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13603
Serg BlackStrider

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Aerie still doesn't have a L9 slot. It's a problem. We'll need a plan.

 

Or may be some WK tour? Free of charge, all inclusive, of course  :rolleyes:


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#13604
Grond0

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Phantasmic Six {4} - monks party (2nd and final update)
 
A combination of being beaten down by a long run and a bit of cheating by the AI led to the monks final stand this morning.
 
Back in Athkatla they returned Renfeld and gave Prebek & Sanasha no chance to react.  After watching Xzar get assassinated they punished Lucette.  Also in the locality some pirates got the treatment.
 
After picking up Mae'Var's quests they came across an ambush on the way to the Temple.  The mage was stunned immediately and they managed to finish off the thieves without casualties although they suffered a few backstabs.  They paid Gaelan Bayle to get a ring upgrade (can't use the AoP) before using stealth to attack Rayic's house.  He provided an opportunity for a free attack by trying to cast detect invisible, but was neither killed nor stunned immediately and disappeared.  The monks immediately ran downstairs before sending one of their number back up to try and get Rayic to appear again - but he saved them the trouble when a devastating skull trap sequencer suddenly turned 4 of the portraits grey while Spook was looking around the room upstairs.  Chimera only survived thanks to the BoIB and immediately ran up after Spook.  This time Rayic did not follow and the 2 of them stealthed out to find a temple - they were carrying just enough for 4 raise deads and a greater restoration.  Back again and Rayic proved to have been nearly dead - a couple of magic missiles penetrating his stoneskins to finish him off.
 
At the guild house Mae'Var failed to detect the incoming attack quickly enough and when the priest was also stunned moments later the battle was all but over.  Reporting their success to Renal got everyone to level 10.  
 
Shortly after that I made a mistake by not resting fully before leaving the area.  The intention was to stealth through the city, but Tanova and colleagues appeared and the party ran - straight into an ambush.  Fortunately monk speed allowed them to run away before the mage's chaos could strike them.
 
Back at the Bridge District they went to sort out the Rune Assassins.  Stealth attacks killed their support troops before the main combat.  A critical backstab almost killed Spook, but they didn't last long after that.  The monks also sorted out the kidnappers before going to pick up the pantaloons.
 
To get their reputation back they returned to Trademeet - on the way finding that ambushers are starting to become wary of them.  At Trademeet I thought Blackblood would provide a good troll-killing weapon, but it had problems in killing spirit trolls and the party had another death there when I tried to micro-manage a fight against 3 constantly disappearing enemies at close quarters.  With Wraith also dead and only 1 of the 3 spirit trolls gone (killed by the efreeti) the others tried to make a run for it, but Spirit got trapped picking up equipment from the bodies and had to use a potion of invisibility to escape.
 
Back again, putting down the spirit trolls with a fresh party was no trouble at all, but several tries with Blackblood failed to kill them and eventually I resorted to the efreeti again.  Using that is not really ideal with this relatively low HP party as it is not fully controllable in this installation and having it cast a fireball in the middle of the wounded party would be bad news.  Moving on past some spiders the party found Blackblood was also ineffective against spectral trolls.  Sodding that for a game of soldiers they went to buy the Sword of Flame in the Promenade before coming back for another try.  That sword made the difference and the monks quickly progressed through the remaining trolls.
 
The earth elemental is not particularly dangerous in the absence of aTweaks and everyone had a +2 weapon to take it down quickly.  The myconids proved more of a problem when summons died quickly (the efreeti refusing to cast the requested fireballs) and Chimera was then confused.  Three characters took invulnerability potions, but they didn't provide complete protection and meanwhile Chimera refused to be drawn away from the main combat. Eventually he did recover, but by then 2 of the others were confused.  Rather than risk the whole party being sucked in again Phantom and Spirit were left to their fate and the others recovered their equipment after the myconids disappeared.
 
Back again, the remaining spore colonies failed to summon any more myconids - 3 of them succumbing to horror.  Belm was recovered, though it's only a very marginal upgrade for monks, on the way to deal with a final group of druids.  That looked like being a comfortable victory with both Dalok and the shadow druid being stunned by an initial stealth attack.  However, that didn't prevent the shadow druid from casting insect plague!  
Spoiler
Initially I wondered if that was due to a shape change, but the druid's icon was stuck in the same position as at the time of stunning (and therefore he wasn't actually immune to stun).  Dalok had been stunned with the first blow, but the druid was only stunned in the second round of attacks and should have been out of action for a minimum of another round (and dead well before that).  I can only assume therefore that the insect plague was scripted, though why that should be done I can't imagine.  
 
The insect plague led to further tragedy when I saw Wraith was low on HPs and initially turned her to run.  However, she would have died soon anyway of the insect damage, so I brought her back into melee to see if she could get a stun on the adherent before she died.  The adherent though got a critical on her and she not only died, but was chunked.  I must admit that wasn't a great surprise.  I was suspicious that the fact that poison was active when the last monk was chunked was a factor and had considered that insects might perform the same function - effectively trying to apply damage to a dead character and chunking them in the process.  The fact that I tested that theory in combat probably reflects that the run was starting to feel like hard work ^_^.  I let the party finish that combat on auto-attacks, but will retire them there.

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#13605
Alesia_BH

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Don't let Wraith die in vain, Grond0!

 

Keeping running!

 

Best,

 

A.



#13606
Aasim

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In Abazigal's Lair, I was disappointed by the absence of Tamah, attributable to a SCS v30 bug.

This bug is fixed about two months ago.

Out of curiosity (since i don't use PIs and don't know about them much); can they use any spell the original has in the book and buff themselves?


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#13607
Aasim

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Phantasmic Six {4} - monks party (2nd and final update)
  I can only assume therefore that the insect plague was scripted, though why that should be done I can't imagine.  

Har luck Grond0. I don't think IP is scripted. 



#13608
Alesia_BH

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This bug is fixed about two months ago.

 

 

Noted.

 

I have downloaded and installed since then. Presumably there is a separate patch, or a hand fix then? Can you point me to it? I'll likely revert following this run, but I'd like to have access to the patch nonetheless.

 


 

Out of curiosity (since i don't use PIs and don't know about them much); can they use any spell the original has in the book and buff themselves?

 

 

You should do some testing, just so that you're familiar with the mechanics. It's a widely used spell. You should understand it, even if you choose not to use it.

 

Casting Projected Image will place the caster in stasis while creating a fully leveled clone, equipped with the caster's items. The clone is capable of casting any spell memorized within the caster's book. Having a Projected Image cast a spell will not deplete the original caster's book. The clones can not make physical attacks. The clones may buff themselves, and doing so is frequently necessary since the clones can be dispelled by Divination or Abjuration magics. The clone will be dispelled if the actual caster takes damage of any kind. The destruction of the clone by any means will free the caster from stasis.

 

Essentially, Projected Image creates a disposable copy of the caster's book, with the disadvantage being that it places the caster in stasis. To use Projected Image effectively, one needs a strategy for protecting the caster while he or she is in stasis in addition to a strategy for protecting the clone and managing its spell assets. In some circumstances, simple spatial positioning will keep the caster safe.  In others, protecting the caster can be a challenge. Projected Image can be difficult to use in the presence of True Sight casters, since one needs to time the release of the image and the image's casting of SI:D in between ticks of True Sight.

 

At the Throne in particular, Projected Image can be difficult and dangerous to use. It's worth it though.

 

Some players choose to restrict Projected Images. I definitely understand why. Mages are arguably over powered in BG and Projected Image can dramatically extend that power. Personally, I limit myself to Projected Images intended uses, while avoiding the exploits.

 

The most common exploits are.

 

1) Using Projected Image to duplicate quick slot items (closed by an SCS tweak)

2) Using Projected Image to circumvent the summoning limit, including the celestial summoning limit

3) Shapeshifting the Projected Image to circumvent the image's inability to make physical attacks

 

Again. I'd encourage you to experiment with it, even if you don't intend to use it. It's a spell you'll encounter often in runs here and elsewhere.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13609
Alesia_BH

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Quick Note on Aphril's Game:

 

Aphril and her friends are currently making their final preparations for the Throne. They will meet their destiny this evening.

 

Wish them luck!

 

Screen%20capture%2022_zpsyb4kehtc.jpg

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13610
Grond0

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Don't let Wraith die in vain, Grond0!

 

Keeping running!

That run's over, but maybe the monks will be back later.  I might even try and force myself to use healing items with them.  Not using them is pretty ingrained, but if my suspicions about the cause of chunking are correct the chances of all 6 characters making it through seem pretty slim - using potions to top up HPs would be a significant help there.  Cutting down on the huge amount of micro-management they require would also make it more likely that I would feel like keeping them going longer ...


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#13611
Aasim

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Noted.

 

I have downloaded and installed since then. Presumably there is a separate patch, or a hand fix then? Can you point me to it? I'll likely revert following this run, but I'd like to have access to the patch nonetheless.

It's an edited piece of code. Here.

 

You should do some testing, just so that you're familiar with the mechanics. It's a widely used spell. You should understand it, even if you choose not to use it.

I don't have any vanilla install right (it's different in SR, but I don't really bother with it) so I can't really test it. I've read about it on various forums, thou. 

 

 The clone is capable of casting any spell currently memorized within the caster's book. Having a Projected Image cast a spell will not deplete the caster's book. The clones can not make physical attacks. The clones may buff themselves, and oing so is frequently necessary since the clones can be dispelled by Divination or Abjuration magics. The clone will be dispelled if the actual caster takes damage of any kind. The destruction of the clone by any means will free the caster from stasis.

Ok. So your PI is "you". For as long as it's alive, you original can't do anything. Likewise, image can do anything the original can apart attacking/using items. This includes all spells which original has, but PI's spells are seperated and original doesn't spend them. 

If the original takes damage, it dissapears regardless of buffs. If the image is killed, caster can move again. Got it.

 

 

Projected Image can be difficult to use in the presence of True Sight casters, since one needs to time the release of the image and the image's casting of SI:D in between ticks of True Sight.

PI benefits from Vecna/SotM for example, or it comes "naked"?

 

 

1) Using Projected Image to duplicate quick slot items (closed by an SCS tweak)

2) Using Projected Image to circumvent the summoning limit, including the celestial summoning limit

3) Shapeshifting the Projected Image to circumvent the image's inability to make physical attacks

Aha. I've heard about the summons exploit & shapeshifted Chain Contingencied Mind Flayer army, yes. 



#13612
Alesia_BH

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That run's over, but maybe the monks will be back later.  I might even try and force myself to use healing items with them.

 

Understood. And that makes sense. 

 

I hope they'll be back soon.

 

Best,

 

A.

 

 

Btw. I respect your healing potion restriction, but I do hope you'll let the monks drink. That should help.



#13613
Alesia_BH

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Ok. So your PI is "you". For as long as it's alive, you original can't do anything. Likewise, image can do anything the original can apart attacking/using items. This includes all spells which original has, but PI's spells are seperated and original doesn't spend them. 

If the original takes damage, it dissapears regardless of buffs. If the image is killed, caster can move again. Got it.

 

Yes. That's it, essentially.


 

PI benefits from Vecna/SotM for example, or it comes "naked"?

 

PIs are equipped with undroppable duplicates of the caster's items.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13614
Alesia_BH

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It's an edited piece of code. Here.

 

I see. A fix hasn't been integrated yet.

 

Rather, one has been proposed on a forum and has undergone preliminary testing.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Best,

 

A.



#13615
Aasim

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RE PI: Got it, thanks for explaining.


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#13616
Alesia_BH

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First attempt at a:

No-reload (this thread premise)

Minimal Killing (will try to kill only those who CHARNAME needs to kill or would be extremelly anoyed not to - summons, Amellysan and Sendai's minions come to mind).

 

Here comes The Pacifier

 

Gnome Bounty Hunter

 

Welcome Iguanus! 

 

I just noticed your intro post. I'm so sorry we missed it! 

 

I hope The Pacifier is still alive and well! Can we expect updates?

 

Best,

 

A.



#13617
Alesia_BH

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RE PI: Got it, thanks for explaining.

 

Not a problem. Thanks for letting me know about the fix.  :)

 

Best,

 

A.



#13618
Serg BlackStrider

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Welcome Iguanus! 

 

I just noticed your intro post. I'm so sorry we missed it! 

 

I hope The Pacifier is still alive and well! Can we expect updates?

Yes, well met and welcome, Iguanus! I've got your update on e-mail but for whatever reason it was not displayed in the forum, so I wasn't able to greet you properly in time.

Looking forward to see more updates of The Pacifier!



#13619
Aasim

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(will try to kill only those who CHARNAME needs to kill or would be extremelly anoyed not to 

Hahahahaha......if I played that way I'd probably kill 99% Alkathla citizens, along with everything red-circled... :D


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#13620
Blackraven

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The PC's slayer form is immune to Imprisonment. I'm inclined to assume that Slayer Imoen will be immune as well.

Yeah, I thought of that later as well. Maybe she could be Imprisoned before that? (Unless the spell requires target to be hostile.) It's a bit metagamey but that's inevitable in the final battle, and it would be cool if you could keep Imo from dying amidst the Horrid Wiltings, Comets and Dragon's Breaths.
 

With IA and Vecna you can rebuff super fast. Without Vecna, not so much. Without IA or Vecna not at all.

 

Only Aphril will have Vecna. Aerie still doesn't have a L9 slot. It's a problem. We'll need a plan.

 

I wouldn't be worried on Core. On Insane, I'm concerned.

Vecna or non-Vecna makes a difference, I understand. Many mage spells have low casting times, but I guess that in the final battle every second counts.
As Serg commented, Watcher's Keep sounds like a good plan, especially for Aerie. However I see you're going for the Throne. Wishing you the best of luck.

 

That run's over, but maybe the monks will be back later.  I might even try and force myself to use healing items with them.  Not using them is pretty ingrained, but if my suspicions about the cause of chunking are correct the chances of all 6 characters making it through seem pretty slim - using potions to top up HPs would be a significant help there.  Cutting down on the huge amount of micro-management they require would also make it more likely that I would feel like keeping them going longer ...

 

Looking forward to more Monks Grond0. Hopefully next time you get to the fun part where it's no longer just hard work...
 

Here comes The Pacifier

 

Gnome Bounty Hunter

Hey Iguanus! I had also missed your post, sorry about that. Welcome aboard, and best of luck with your Charname, a Gnome Bounty Hunter no less! How great is that? Norgath, my Dwarven Bounty Hunter, salutes Pacifier even though he doesn't really share the pacifist principles ;)



#13621
corey_russell

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Quick Note on Aphril's Game:

 

Aphril and her friends are currently making their final preparations for the Throne. They will meet their destiny this evening.

 

Wish them luck!

 

Screen%20capture%2022_zpsyb4kehtc.jpg

 

Best,

 

A.

I hope you can pull through, Alesia - maybe Wraith can come back from the dead and give you gals a hand, : )



#13622
Alesia_BH

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I hope you can pull through

 

Thanks. From the very beginning I knew it would come down to the final battle.

 

The ease with which Aphril and Co. have completed ToB (zero injuries) may make victory seem like a foregone conclusion, but I have serious doubts about the Throne. I don't expect this to be easy.

 

 



maybe Wraith can come back from the dead and give you gals a hand, : )

 

 

Kinda sorta, I guess?

 

Screen%20capture%2032_zps5mbmpqna.jpg

 

Best,

 

A.



#13623
Alesia_BH

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Aphril, Elven Sorcerer: The Ravager

 

I just thought I'd quickly cover the Ravager for those who find him tricky to fight with mages.

 

First, a run down.

 

Why the Ravager is Hard for Mages

 

  • 90% Magic Resistance

  • 100% Resistance to Fire, Cold, Electricity, and Acid

  • Immunity to Lower Resistance

  • Immunity to Time Stop

  • Immunity to Imprisonment

  • Immunity to insta-kill effects

  • Immunity to most disablers (although there are some holes in some installs)

 

Why the Ravager is Easy for Mages

  • He has no Abjuration spells and consequently has trouble defending himself and removing buffs

  • His on hit dispel is foiled by ProMW. It's delivered by a melee weapon and he's slow

  • While he is immune to Lower Resistance, he is not immune to Pierce Magic or Pierce Shield

  • He has no resistance to Magic Damage. Wiltings will destroy him once his MR has been removed

  • His saves aren't that great. He'll fail his damage checks fairly often

 

In the end, the Ravager has some strengths, but those strengths are undermined by his critical weaknesses. Most notably, his vulnerability to the Pierces and Magic Damage, coupled with his inability to remove buffs. He's easy pickin's.

 

Here we are: buffed and ready for combat. Note the cameo appearance by Nalia. Looks like someone is going to take a beating, huh?

 

Screen%20capture%203_zps7oppetkk.jpg

 

Guess what happened next? Someone took a beating.

 

Here's the opening. Nalia- Pierce Magic x 3 Trigger; Imoen- Pierce Magic x 3 Trigger; Adara- ProMW; Aerie- ProMW; Aphril- Improved Alacrity. That's it: he's done. He's pinned behind the Tank of Doom. His Magic Resistance is gone. Aphril has fired up Improved Alacrity. He'll never live to see the end of the ToD's ProMW. The Bone Blades are irrelevant.

 

Screen%20capture%2010_zpssde0qxix.jpg

 

Kudos on taking that first Wilting like a thorny hell-beast, but it's just going to get worse, you know.

 

Screen%20capture%2011_zps29im1kug.jpg

 

This is what a beating looks like.

 

Screen%20capture%2019_zpswdmdpoyt.jpg 

 

The only question now was who would get the kill. Imoen or Adara with Energy Blades? Aphril with Wiltings? The ToD with Ages? Nalia had even brought Gessen out to play.

 

Screen%20capture%2022_zpsviyf1j7z.jpg

 

No surprise, huh?

 

Screen%20capture%2023_zpsnrl8tcsv.jpg

 

Melissan will not go as quietly.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13624
Guest_GrimJim_*

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Understood. For some time now I've been leaning heavily toward using a 50%-75% EXP progression nerf in solo games.
 
I think that would help rebalance SoA while also permitting gradual power accumulation in ToB. Have you considered that approach?

I have, but I don't think that I'd like it much. I like the rate at which my characters level up. I guess my complaint is that the game is too long, or at least that the interesting fights are too spread out.
 

I definitely wouldn't call them underpowered in ToB, however.

I wouldn't either. I was specifically referring to the fights in chapter 10. My first M/T stomped through the first 9 chapters before running into a brick wall in chapter 10. I ended up restarting him to reallocate his HLAs and thieving skills. (Did you know that you need 141 points in set traps for your simulacra to reliably set them? I didn't.) The weaknesses I was referring to are 1) that your base THAC0 caps out at 10, and 2) getting a high APR depends on two specific weapons, neither of which is +4. I'll have to look up Alyssa's run to see how she handled the chapter 10 fights because even my rebuilt character found it difficult.

It was an interesting contrast with my F/M who had more difficulty in the first 9 chapters but found the final fights much simpler.

Anyway, best of luck at the Throne!
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#13625
Alesia_BH

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The weaknesses I was referring to are 1) that your base THAC0 caps out at 10, and 2) getting a high APR depends on two specific weapons, neither of which is +4.
 

 

Noted. That makes sense. And to be clear, I understand why some players find M/Ts challenging at the Throne.

 

I didn't find the THAC0 terribly problematic. There are ways around that. It can be annoying though.

 

As for weaponry at high APR, there's also the Scarlet Ninja To which is +3, at least.

 

6 APR with a BBoD in the mainhand is sufficient, in my opinion.

 

 

I'll have to look up Alyssa's run to see how she handled the chapter 10 fights because even my rebuilt character found it difficult.

 

You may find it helpful. Note well though: I was more fearful of Melissan in that run than I should have been. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't hesitate to let Alyssa take on Mel in toe-to-toe melee- with proper precautions, of course.

 

Best,

 

A.


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