15218 réponses à ce sujet

[Grond0]

Are the monk parties fun?

One of the things I like about parties is the opportunity to rotate damage around in order to win a combat without casualties - that was the original genesis of the Wrecking Crew.  The monks relatively low HPs and susceptibility to criticals makes that much more difficult for them, but it's still satisfying when it comes off.  It's also fun to stun things, although in this installation free action protects against stun and there are a surprisingly large number of enemies who have the ability to ignore it .

 

Although the results of my monk runs don't reflect it I am actually coming to the view that there is the potential for success with a group of monks.  Their ability to use a wide range of potions and other equipment could be used to buttress their weaknesses long enough to get them to the sort of late-teens levels where they become serious fighters.  Getting there safely would probably require far more buffing and use of defensive equipment than I typically do, but I could imagine doing that sort of run - at least as long as no character had been killed - which tends to be my signal for a gradual (or sometimes dramatic ) reduction in the amount of care taken.  Of course even at those levels the monks would remain a lot more fragile than an equivalent group of fighters, so there would need to be a high level of concentration thoughout a run - which would suggest that the monks would be better off in your hands ...

 

In order to shift the odds their way stealth would also be very important to the monks.  Normally I don't think there would be any chance of me leveraging that effectively over a long run as it would be too much hassle.  However, the custom script Gate70 provided me with does greatly reduce the effort of using stealth and again I could imagine making quite a bit of use of it over a long run if I retained the incentive of keeping everyone alive.  I'll probably have at least another couple of goes at them to see if I can get a group through BG1 unscathed.

[Serg BlackStrider]

I'll check my CRE file. Have you checked yours? Are you sure you're looking at the right one?

Check *edit:* part of my previous post.

[Blackraven]

@AnonymousHero,

I'm playing with 'Death Ward protects against vorpal hits', so priests should also be able to deal with aTweaks Balor. Either way I agree that mods shouldn't force one into playing specific classes in order to survive. 

@Alesia, good fun in Hell! Seeing you and Serg kick ass in late SoA I really want some nice epic battles for myself Was it a long fight? Didn't Jon have loads of Stoneskins and Heals? 

@Grond0, very sorry about Chimera & Co. I had truly hoped for some interesting kung-fu fighting in SoA.

[Alesia_BH]

 

In my game+set-of-mods they had directed teleportation (1/round) which would allow them to catch up instantly. 

 

The balors have Teleport Without Error in my instal. All the demons do. Arkona hasn't found it difficult to evade them.

 

There is a slight delay between the time when they TWE and the time when they initiate a melee attack. If you pause the exact instant that they TWE and dart away under haste, you can clear the range 2 of their sword. You then have almost a full round to slip away and attack.

 

We haven't had trouble creating space to attack with slings. I've spent a lot of time sling fighting though. Perhaps that experience makes it easier for me?

 

We've killed four balors. Only one of them has gotten an attack roll in. That one was assisted by an Irenicus Time Stop and the somewhat unusual TWE mechanics associated with it.

 

Best,

 

A. 

[Alesia_BH]

Check *edit:* part of my previous post.

 

Noted. Thanks for checking!

 

Yes: nerfed APR, but the weapons range is still 2 and the speed factor is still zero. For my purposes, those numbers are more important than APR. They're still potentially dangerous

 

The interaction between Time Stop and TWE is a problem in that fight.

 

Best,

 

A.

[Alesia_BH]

Although the results of my monk runs don't reflect it I am actually coming to the view that there is the potential for success with a group of monks.

 

Awesome. Glad to hear it. I'd love to see it work.

 

It sound like you have some excellent ideas!

 

Best,

 

A.

[Alesia_BH]

 

@Alesia, good fun in Hell! Seeing you and Serg kick ass in late SoA I really want some nice epic battles for myself

 

Thanks. You'll get here. 

 

I'm expecting a dandy smackdown in Hell very soon.

 

 

Was it a long fight? Didn't Jon have loads of Stoneskins and Heals? 

 

It was longer than Aphril's fight: that's for certain.

 

It wasn't terribly long though.

 

When my unkitted cleric, Abigail, soloed Ascension the final fight took one hour and fifty minutes of real time. Arkona's fight with Jonicus was nothing compared to that. It was ten or fifteen minutes max.

 

Arkona could have done it quicker if it weren't for the vorpal risk.

 

I evade melee far more than I need to with Arkona.

 

Best,

 

A.

[Alesia_BH]

Quick Note on Arkona's Game:

 

Illasera is dead. This was super quick

 

Arkona unequipped the Reflex briefly to draw Illasera out of invisibility. She then fired up a Seeking Whirlwind and jacked Illasera. Done. 

 

Spoiler

 

Arkona has also complete PPC#1. I'll post on Gromnir relatively soon. If there is interest in PPC#1 I can post on that, too.

 

Best,

 

A.

[Jabberwock]

Really enjoyed seeing your Barbarian run through SoA Alesia. It makes me disappointed that Minsc is not a barbarian...

 

On my end, I've decided to retire my current run after what I think is another bug death (this time I think to a fireshield infinite loop). At some point you've just seen too many death screens under semi-murky circumstances (in my case, two). 

 

I'll finish the run offline until ToB and then it can at least be a clean run through ToB. To that end, I've also decided to record all my bg2 play from now on; that way, these issues should not recur without a clear audit record showing what happened.

[Grimwald the Wise]

 

Phantasmic 6 {7} - monks party (1st and final update)

With 4 of them affected, including Chimera, the odds were heavily against them surviving - and they didn't.

 

 

Hard luck Grond0.

 

I was amazed at how much faster you went than I did with Jardik who has just finished the dungeon, helped at the circus, helped the kidnapped Anne in the slums and killed a shady character Amilas and some thugs bringing him up to level12.

 

In the dungeon the fight with Illych didn't go well. Imoen had cast web and was about to use Agannazer's scorcher when the targetted duerger retreated causing imoen to move into the webbed area. This resulted in her panicking and scarpering.

 

This meant that Jardik was badly affected by traps and had to keep resting. However, he did get to the slums though it took him over NINE days.

 

It has been years since Imoen has run out on me!!

 

The problem I now have is that I have no-one to identify my equipment so that I can sell it and buy what I need.

 

I want to delay taking on Nalia as I don't want to go to her keep just yet. I need to bump up my reputation so the slaver quest is next.

[Alesia_BH]

Really enjoyed seeing your Barbarian run through SoA Alesia. It makes me disappointed that Minsc is not a barbarian...

 

 

Thanks. It's been fun. I'm glad others have enjoyed it.

 

(And yes: Minsc would make a great barbarian.)

 

On my end, I've decided to retire my current run after what I think is another bug death (this time I think to a fireshield infinite loop). At some point you've just seen too many death screens under semi-murky circumstances (in my case, two). 

 

We respect your decision. The collision of fire shields is a fairly well understood game mechanic. It's quirky, but it's something that most of us have come to accept. The approach I take is to be wary of it while at the same time refraining from exploiting it. I think most players take a similar approach.

 

Had I lost a character to a fire shield collision, I'd consider the game over. I think everyone else here would as well.

 

 

I'll finish the run offline until ToB and then it can at least be a clean run through ToB.

 

 

Enjoy the rest of your run! Good luck!

 

Best,

 

A.

 

 

Btw. Video sound like a good idea.

[Jabberwock]

Thanks. It's been fun. I'm glad others have enjoyed it.

 

(And yes: Minsc would make a great barbarian.)

 

 

 

We respect your decision. The collision of fire shields is a fairly well understood game mechanic. It's quirky, but it's something that most of us have come to accept. The approach I take is to be wary of it while at the same time refraining from exploiting it. I think most players take a similar approach.

 

Had I lost a character to a fire shield collision, I'd consider the game over. I think everyone else here would as well.

 

 

 

Enjoy the rest of your run! Good luck!

 

Best,

 

A.

 

 

Btw. Video sound like a good idea.

 

I'm actually not sure how to be wary of it without avoiding casting it. To protect charname, he could just never melee a fireshielder without being immune to fire / cold damage, which is pretty easy to do. 

 

But the other factor is that the feedback effect (occasional infinite loop aside) allows arcane warriors to pierce PfMW. That seems pretty powerful and basically means the party is either cheesing fireshielders which is a bit unfair or it can't engage them in melee with its own fireshielders... which is difficult to do without straight avoiding casting the spell yourself. 

 

Not sure what the right choice is here, but for now I'm just adding it to my list of spells that I think is too difficult to avoid being cheesy with and won't cast.

[Grond0]

The problem I now have is that I have no-one to identify my equipment so that I can sell it and buy what I need.

That's what the Glasses of Identification are for - on sale in Gaelan Bayle's house .

[Grimwald the Wise]

That's what the Glasses of Identification are for - on sale in Gaelan Bayle's house .

 

It's my old age. I forgot them due to usually having a party.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

Jardik has now finished albeit slowly the 1st slaver quest and will probably talk to Nalia soon. I'm going out now though. It's a lovely day and could change my mind by the time that I return.

[AnonymousHero]

The balors have Teleport Without Error in my instal. All the demons do. Arkona hasn't found it difficult to evade them.

 

There is a slight delay between the time when they TWE and the time when they initiate a melee attack. If you pause the exact instant that they TWE and dart away under haste, you can clear the range 2 of their sword. You then have almost a full round to slip away and attack.

 

We haven't had trouble creating space to attack with slings. I've spent a lot of time sling fighting though. Perhaps that experience makes it easier for me?

 

I think it's the fact that you have seemingly infinite patience... whereas I don't .

 

EDIT: That is to say... I know I could probably kite them, but I don't want to resort to that kind of thing.

[AnonymousHero]

@AnonymousHero,

I'm playing with 'Death Ward protects against vorpal hits', so priests should also be able to deal with aTweaks Balor. Either way I agree that mods shouldn't force one into playing specific classes in order to survive. 

 

Yeah, I have that particular line in my WEIDU.LOG too, but I don't tend to dabble too much in Cleric, so...

 

I also think that this falls into the "workaround" category rather than the "there... fixed it!" category .

[Alesia_BH]

 

EDIT: That is to say... I know I could probably kite them, but I don't want to resort to that kind of thing.

 

Yes. You probably could. It's not that hard. Anyone could do it with practice -or even without practice- I suspect.

 

As to whether it's worth doing, to me it's a simple call: stay ranged or die a horrible death. 

 

I'd rather stay ranged.

 

It doesn't really take long since the ATweaks balors lack Stoneskins and have only 104HP. With Whirlwind or IH you can range kill them in 1-2 rounds. Without, it takes 3-5. Not long in either case.

 

Arkona's battle with the Underdark ATweaks balor can be found here (very end of the post). It was over in one round. Arkona was never in danger.

 

http://forum.bioware...nge/?p=19560572

 

Modding their vorpal attack is another option. I think that approach makes sense for no reloaders who prefer melee.

 

-4 v death, while increasing the probability (maybe even to 100%).

 

For now, I'd rather just leave it as it is and stay ranged, I think.

 

Best,

 

A.

[Alesia_BH]

@Jabberwock. I agree that the Fireshield collision is awkward.

 

It doesn't happen with regularity in all installs. In my install, an attack on a Fireshielded creature by a Fireshielded creature typically leads to one and only one Fireshield hit on each party.

 

If you are observing Firehield collisions in your install at an unacceptable rate, run SI:Ev along with Fireshield. That should stop it. 

 

GoI should, in theory, stop it, but it doesn't. Perhaps there is a way to patch so that Fireshield is stopped by GoI, but Fireshield does not eat into single target spell protections? By adding Protection from Spell (Firesheild: Blue, Red) to GoI? 

 

In the alternative, fight Fireshielded enemies with ranged weapons.

 

Best,

 

A. 

[Alesia_BH]

Arkona, Halfling Barbarian: Gromnir's Castle

 

Arkona has defeated Gromnir. She has collected Roranach's, and is now ready to explore Watcher's Keep

 

Arkona entered the castle via the Prison. Belm + iMoD cleared the vampires

 

Spoiler

 

I was a little surprised when the prison guard mage showed up near the tunnel

 

Spoiler

 

This was not a concern, however: mages are nearly harmless and most of these blokes lack +2s

 

Spoiler

 

Flar's scabbard was collected, naturally

 

On floor two we saw a pair of Time Stops and a fair number of demons. The first round of demons died to GDB (gelugons are level 11)

 

Spoiler

 

A Mordy met the same fate. Arkona now has summons under control. GDB for gelugons, DB for Mordies, glabrezus, nabassus, and cornugons. Wave for efreetis. They all get one hit nixed. Efreetis had been a nuisance until Arkona forged the Wave

 

Spoiler

 

The melee fighters were killed with Ages + the Defender under Hardiness and Rage

 

Catching a PW:B was irritating, but Critical Strike fixes that

 

Spoiler

 

For the mage, IH Crimson Dart Power attack->Seeking Whirlwind

 

Spoiler

 

Onto Gromnir!

 

Spoiler

 

This was fun, although it could have been more fun

 

Since I wanted to kill Berena before she closed with her dispelling weapon, Arkona withdrew Southeast. This had the effect of juking the mages. They have a less than ideal call for help response in this battle. The outcome would have been the same had we run West. We just missed out on some fun

 

Anyhoo: the fight

 

As mentioned, Arkona immediately ran Southeast. She then activated Smite

 

Spoiler

 

(Some of you may be wondering about Hab and Lashar'ra: don't worry, they'll get here. They spawned in a touch late. You'll see them in the next screenshot)

 

Berena was driven to the back wall by Smite and then punked with a Seeking Whirlwind

 

Spoiler

 

Arkona then went to work on Gromnir's remaining allies. The next time I do this, I'll be sure to kill Ramazith at range, just like Berena. He tagged Arkona with his bad luck on hit effect. It had no impact on the battle, but it's still unacceptable

 

Spoiler

 

Gromnir's pretty harmless to Arkona. Under Hardiness, with the Defender equipped- with good path immunities, Shadow Dragon Armor and the Helm of Defense, Arkona enjoys 80% resistance to blunt damage, 50% resistance to acid and 40% resistance to cold. Gromnir's junk won't work, basically- not well enough, at least, to overcome Arkona's healing rate. He can Whirlwind all he wants

 

Spoiler

 

Arkona started worrying that that bad luck effect might be cumulative so she equipped the Sentinel and finished Ramazith with Ages Whirlwinds. AC beats damage resistance when you are trying to avoid on hit effects

 

Spoiler

 

Endgame. Now you taste my Whirlwind

 

Spoiler

 

Great loot from this battle: Roranach's and the Lavender Ioun Stone will definitely make the rotation. Ice Star may make a few guest appearances. We'll use the Grandmaster Armor for fights where electricity resistance or cold resistance is more valuable than acid resistance

 

Arkona is now on her way to Watcher's Keep. We intend to cover Level 2, Level 3, and Level 4 at the least. We may go all the way to the Imprisoned One

 

Best,

 

A.

[Alesia_BH]

A Note for the SCS v30 players.

 

Grim Jim uploaded a great post on SCS v30/Ascension bug fixes. It can be found over in the Adventurer's Lounge. The link is here:

 

http://forum.bioware...ran/?p=19564149

 

Thanks Grim Jim!

 

And good hunting everyone!

 

Best,

 

A.

[AnonymousHero]

It doesn't really take long since the ATweaks balors lack Stoneskins and have only 104HP. With Whirlwind or IH you can range kill them in 1-2 rounds. Without, it takes 3-5. Not long in either case.

 

(snip)

 

I'll take Other Reasons I Love This Game for $200, Alex! What is "there are always options and alternatives!"?

[Alesia_BH]

 

I'll take Other Reasons I Love This Game for $200, Alex! What is "there are always options and alternatives!"?

 

Agreed.

 

And, if I'm reading you correctly, there is an implied critique of the ATweaks balor vorpal here: it unduly canalizes the players options. Roll arcane, use Death Ward, or stay ranged? Maybe that's too narrow. I sympathize with that view.

 

My take on Bodhi's Con drain is similar. I think Bodhi's Con drain is worse.

 

Best,

 

A. 

[AnonymousHero]

Agreed.

 

And, if I'm reading you correctly, there is an implied critique of the ATweaks balor vorpal: it unduly canalizes the players options. Roll arcane, use Death Ward, or stay ranged? Maybe that's too narrow. I sympathize with that view.

 

My take on Bodhi's Con drain is similar. I think Bodhi's Con drain is worse.

 

Oh, it's not implied... I explicitly hate aTweaks Balor vorpals -- purely from a game design perspective. It forces players into a very narrow set of options, and furthermore it leads to situations where you can get killed "randomly"[1].

 

[1] I realize it's not quite random (because you can evade it with enough movement speed), but it is opaque to player scrutiny.

[Alesia_BH]

Arkona, Halfling Barbarian: Watcher's Keep- The Statues

 

Arkona got a pleasurable fight from the Watcher's Keep statues: suitably challenging, but in the end non-threatening.

 

The first task was to claim Foebane by retrieving the book. The Foebane guardian activated, along with two clerics and a second warrior. This was an easy spawn to deal with.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Rages + Ages + Defender + Hardiness handled it with ease. Foebane is ours. Life is good.

 

Spoiler

 

Here's the new inventory setup. Note that Arkona has ditched the Shadow Dragon Armor in favor of unenchanted studded leather. Unenchanted studded leather has been Arkona's preferred armor through most of BG2. 

 

Spoiler

 

When unenchanted studded leather is paired with Bracers of AC 3 and the CoP + 2 the resultant AC is the same as that from Shadow Dragon Armor. Shadow Dragon Armor basically offers 50% acid resistance and a free bracer slot at a - 2 penalty to save v spells (since the CoP+ 2 can't be worn). And now that the CoP + 2 has been upgraded, Shadow Dragon Armor would crowd out in combat use of Improved Haste and Improved Invisibility. It's a tough call. Acid resistance is hard to come by and Arkona's saves are already outstanding. The benefits of the Improved CoP +2 have tipped the scales in favor of studded leather for the time being. Shadow Dragon Armor will still see in combat use, no doubt. Against Draconis, obviously, and against some mages as well. Arkona takes a lot of damage from COrbs and MAAs. Unenchanted splint may still see use, too, although Roranach's very nearly obsoletes it.

 

Onto the big show. All of the remaining statues activated. The plan was to neutralize ranged and energy attacks and then settle into melee combat running Rage + Hardiness + Foebane + Defender. That worked, although it took a while. After evading a pair of Time Stops with invisibility, Arkona went to work on the bow wielding statue with a Seeking Whirlwind. A third Time Stop put the kibosh on that, however.

 

Spoiler

 

By now the summoning accomplished in those Time Stops began to yield fruit. We had demonic gates opening everywhere, Symbol spell flying around: it was a mess. 

 

Spoiler

 

The Symbol spell were no threat. Arkona's saves are low enough now that she can make a -4 even under Malison and Doom. The summons were a greater concern, but they too could be dealt with.

 

The ATweaks pit fiend took a Seeking Whirlwind. Mid assault, he Wished for his health to be restored, but that was not enough to save him. 

 

(Btw. I'm not sure why ATweaks changed the avatar of pit fiends. I'm guessing there is a PnP justification for it, but it looks less cool to me. EDIT: I just Googled pit fiend, and yes, the ATweaks pit fiend looks more like a pit fiend "should." As a BG player without a PnP background, I miss the old pit fiend. )

 

Spoiler

 

Greater Death Blow for the gelugon.

 

Spoiler

 

Now the cornugons and efreetis were en route. The SCS efreetis are actually the biggest nuisance of all, due to their spells and gaseous cloud transformation. Arkona has an answer for that these days.

 

Spoiler

 

 

But not while PW:Bed. It was time to withdraw.

 

Spoiler

 

Buffed up, healed, with True Sight running and with the Wave equipped, the efreetis would soon fall.

 

Spoiler

 

By now the summons had been cleared and the bow wielder had fallen: we were ready for some straight on melee combat. Foebane + Defender. Arkona weathered some Whirlwinds here and her HP total still went up.

 

Spoiler

 

If I had to draft BG2 weaponry for a solo barbarian, I'd take the Sling of Seeking first, followed by the Defender. Foebane + 5 and Ages +4 would be next. You can keep the other stuff (although I would like Arvoreen and Darkfire's Improved Haste, if you don't mind). 

 

Everard for the mage, who went Improved Mantle

 

Spoiler

 

Roranach's + Foebane + Defender for the golem.

 

Spoiler

 

Crimson and the Reflex for the mage who ran out of Abjuration school stuff.

 

Spoiler

 

Level 2 is next.

 

Best,

 

 

A.

[Alesia_BH]

Oh, it's not implied... I explicitly hate aTweaks Balor vorpals -- purely from a game design perspective.

 

Understood. I don't hate it. I understand why it is the way it is. It's a faithful implementation of the balors' PnP abilities (that's my understanding, at least). I'm sure some PnP players appreciate that. 

 

It is potentially awkward from a balancing perspective in BG no reload play. If it bothered me enough, I'd just tweak it away. Again, -4 v death makes sense: dangerous, but stoppable.

 

The only thing that irks me about it in this game is that I see no way to protect Balthazar from it at the Throne. Also, the Time Stop/TWE/Vorpal strike interaction is potentially problematic.

 

Best,

 

A. 

 

Btw. If you're reluctant to tweak, I can sympathize with that, too, I suppose.

 

It's not something I've done yet. I'm tempted to do it for Bodhi's Con drain and, to a lesser extent, for the ATweak balor vorpal.

 

I wish I could install SCS v30 but somehow retain the older, con drain-less Bodhi.

 

I'll probably use SCS fiends in my next run.