15226 réponses à ce sujet

[Saint of Sinners]

@Alesia_BH

Congratulations. I hope the reiteration of the attempt against Melissan will help you in your (hopefully!) complete Trilogy NR run.

I was actually looking at most battles involving Melissan online, and I'd say that the big girl herself is quite easy to bring down, it's just that nothing about her should stick on your character. The saves penalty have to be reversed, the Time Stop must be prepared for, etc. In all probability, she's a Ravager with just too many spells under her wing.

Anyway, will your next run go for a Balthazar? That would eliminate one problem at the Throne immediately... But if you've got this strategy pat down, I think it's not necessary, is it?

[Alesia_BH]

In the original Ascension, finishing Mel was always easy. You could just stand back and pop her with a Sling. Even my Transmuter could kill her that way. I'd say the Ravager comparison is apt there- espcically if you are willing to use Mirroring.

In SCS she's noticeably more difficult since she doesn't simply park. She also uses her Absolute Immunity far, far more often and in my install it grants immunity to all weapons regardless of enchantment.

Still. As I said, with enough ProMW and some Fireshields, she'd be a breeze in SCS as well- she'd become a Ravager again. The problem was that Alesia only had 2 ProMW scrolls. Subtle thing, but it makes a big difference. She'll pack right and finish quick without difficulty next time.

As for allies, I'd do it the same way if I ran Alesia again. Mislead->Time Trap->BBoD+Improved Haste drops Balthy quick. And Bodhi is pretty helpful due to her Gaseous Form. In that form, she's kind of like a Mordy Sword that can't be Death Spelled. She also makes the Jon fight easier. I'd let her fight Jon, Imprison her for the demon battles, and then let her run distraction in the final confrontation.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 05 juillet 2011 - 01:41 .

[Saint of Sinners]

My install also has Absolute Immunity granting perfect immunity to all weapons. I think this is going to be quite a haul, but I think I'll have it better because I can always scribe a hundred of any necessary scroll.

Anyway, I might be missing something here, but what is the rationale behind imprisoning Bodhi for the demon fights? Is the number/type of demons dependent on a party check in that phase?

[Alesia_BH]

Saint of Sinners wrote...

Anyway, I might be missing something here, but what is the rationale behind imprisoning Bodhi for the demon fights? Is the number/type of demons dependent on a party check in that phase?

It's pretty simple: she isn't needed and she might get killed. Just one less thing to worry about.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 05 juillet 2011 - 01:44 .

[Alesia_BH]

Saint of Sinners wrote...

My install also has Absolute Immunity granting perfect immunity to all weapons. I think this is going to be quite a haul, but I think I'll have it better because I can always scribe a hundred of any necessary scroll.

Yeah. With lots of ProMW scrolls it would be a snap. You'd be safer and you could be a lot more aggressive.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 05 juillet 2011 - 01:50 .

[Saint of Sinners]

Alesia_BH wrote...

It's pretty simple: she isn't needed and she might get killed. Just one less thing to worry about.

Stupid me. I apologize. Anyway, that seems like a mighty fine idea for something. I have to check this out. Thank you, Alesia.

EDIT: Yep, it allowed me to summon more than 10 Mordenkainen's. Too bad there's no way that I can summon a Planetar or something.

EDIT2: But they're still subject to the duration. Bummer. And here I thought I can create an immortal Magical Sword.

Modifié par Saint of Sinners, 05 juillet 2011 - 01:59 .

[Alesia_BH]

If you are willing to use the Control Demon ability and scroll duplication (I'm not these days), there are a lot of amusing options there.

In Alesia's first Ascension solo, I let her duplicate Imprisonment spells via PI and Simmies. I imprisoned a bunch of demons, set traps at their former positions, and then read a Freedom scroll. It was fun: the Demons returned, blew up, and had Bodhi on their tail.

Just remember that if you Imprison something, Sendai and or Abazigal, will read a Freedom scroll at the very begining of the battle.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 05 juillet 2011 - 02:07 .

[Saint of Sinners]

The advantage of any variant of a fighter/mage is that it will always have a solution for Ascension Melissan. I'll take on her on Insane using a lot of ways. Already, I'm trying to form this idea of actually going toe to toe against her. At high levels, I think I can get away with it eventually, but it will necessitate a good amount of practicing with wisdom augmentation, Limited Wish, and Whirlwind.

As for Control Demon, I know Saros was one of the few who used it in his run, but it takes too much micromanagement. I'm also running on Insane right now as I pretty much know what to do this time around. This means a heck lot more of demons, and while Control Demon is probably the solution, I don't see it as my cup of tea as Melissan is hardcoded to command-banish them as she sees fit. It might buy Saros some time with his strategy, but I really cannot micromanage a quick-gain-even-quicker-loss scenario.

I'm looking actually at the probability of utilizing the Blade's abnormally high AC. Melissan's THAC0 isn't that good, especially with Monty dodging Firkraag for a whole 6 minutes in the previous run. There might be some factors that will contribute to her hitting me, but it won't be her THAC0 at all.

[Alesia_BH]

If you have lots of ProMW, you could definitely go toe-to-toe with her. A high AC might actually be better than a low AC because she'll beat herself half to death on your Fireshields.

[Saint of Sinners]

Alesia_BH wrote...

If you have lots of ProMW, you could definitely go toe-to-toe with her. A high AC might actually be better than a low AC because she'll beat herself half to death on your Fireshields.

True. I've been checking her behavior and there's no check against a Fireshield. Yes, there's a check about using Breach, but not necessarily against Fireshield. There's no Remove Magic that's really scary either (well, it is scary if she uses it at she's a 30/30 MC, enough to dispel most anything).

The reason why I'm thinking of going suicidal is that I can always activate Defensive Spin, put my AC to -24 for approximately 24 seconds, and follow up with PfMW. With PfMW up, Defensive Spin falls, I activate Offensive Spin, and go toe to toe. The Spins, after all, are equal to PfMW in duration. Rinse and repeat.

It's going to be pure bladesinging at the endgame, I suppose.

Modifié par Saint of Sinners, 05 juillet 2011 - 02:22 .

[Alesia_BH]

Saint of Sinners wrote...

The reason why I'm thinking of going suicidal is that I can always activate Defensive Spin, put my AC to -24 for approximately 24 seconds, and follow up with PfMW. With PfMW up, Defensive Spin falls, I activate Offensive Spin, and go toe to toe. The Spins, after all, are equal to PfMW in duration. Rinse and repeat.

It's going to be pure bladesinging at the endgame, I suppose.

Makes sense.


Best,

A.

[BelgarathMTH]

@Alesia, I continue to marvel at your skill, mastery, and wisdom.

You just gave me BBoD and ProMW for my Acronym Overload Glossary (AOG). I think I'll cross-reference ProMW to the "Pf" ' s.

[corey_russell]

Zallon entering Trilogy No-reload Challenge:

Zallon successfully negotiated a no-reload of BG 1. He is continuing his trilogy no-reload in BG 2 and then ToB if he makes it that far.

Zallon starting stats.

Proficiencies:
Warhammer **
Quarter Staff **
Two weapon style **

Game Plan:
The game gave me a chance to choose a kit, so I chose a berserker. I will dual at 9 to cleric and choose flail ** and sling **. I intend to be in the front lines a lot with Minsc, and will try a 4 man party. For sure will be me, Minsc and Jan, only question is Nalia or Edwin. Would prefer Edwin, but then would have to be careful with reputation. Reputation is pretty easy in BG 1 because there were lots of peasants by themselves who one could kill to drop it. In BG 2 if you do that you break quests or aggo whole areas. We will have to see...

SETUP:
Vanilla BG 2
Throne of Bhaal Expansion
Official ToB Patch
No Mods
Core Difficulty

Modifié par corey_russell, 05 juillet 2011 - 03:34 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Good luck, Corey.

I know you probably said before, but are you using difficulty mods?

[Saint of Sinners]

If I remember correctly, Corey uses nay but a patched vanilla game.

Anyway, an update:

Monty has actually stopped being a munchkin at lvl27. He's finished collecting most items that are indispensable from Ch. 2, collected nearly a million gold, and is about to finish the quests now. It's been weeks since he's finished all of the Keep but TorGal, collected what he can from other quests, etc. The only stronghold quest he's finished so far is the Druid Grove, and he's already won the rites of ascension.

Anyway, will be posting videos soon enough. Just encoding them properly for YouTube.

Modifié par Saint of Sinners, 05 juillet 2011 - 03:24 .

[corey_russell]

Oops sorry BelgarathMTH I was supposed to say that. I have edited my original post with that information.

[Saint of Sinners]

Monty the Blade Update: TorGal

I made a video for today instead, as I can't be bothered to edit so many screenshots and whatnot. The video was easier to make and even at double pass it's still too small to be a bother editing. Anyway, on to the update...

Monty vs TorGal

Notes:

• Tackled at Lvl27.
• Main hand FoA, offhand Belm
• HLA: UAI, 2 Sound Burst, Scribe Scrolls

Strategy:

• Buff up with everything that can deter melee (Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Fireshield) and add MGoI to prepare for any low level spell that can be quite lethal (Skull Trap, et al). We also buff with Imp. Haste.
• Trolls are susceptible to Death Spell. Enter, throw Death Spell, only high-level enemies remain.
• Saving against Umber Hulk Elder's abilities are a cinch. Still, activate PfMW and refresh every three rounds. TorGal hits like a truck.
• The biggest threat are the mages. They will use Breach after Breach after Remove Magic. A simple solution is closing the door so that you can separate TorGal from the others. Opt to separate both TorGal and the Umber Hulk Elder together. The UHE is dangerous when with both yuan-ti mages.
• Remove Magic works great because of high level. At low levels, Detect Invisibility would do against the yuan-ti.
• This strategy is doable with a party even at the lowest levels. Improved Haste is not necessary, and the Death Spell strategy can be utilized to whittle down numbers immediately.

Anyway, the Keep quest is finally finished. Time to hunt some wyrms down.

Modifié par Saint of Sinners, 06 juillet 2011 - 06:15 .

[amanasleep]

Saint of Sinners wrote...

Alesia_BH wrote...

If you have lots of ProMW, you could definitely go toe-to-toe with her. A high AC might actually be better than a low AC because she'll beat herself half to death on your Fireshields.

True. I've been checking her behavior and there's no check against a Fireshield. Yes, there's a check about using Breach, but not necessarily against Fireshield. There's no Remove Magic that's really scary either (well, it is scary if she uses it at she's a 30/30 MC, enough to dispel most anything).

The reason why I'm thinking of going suicidal is that I can always activate Defensive Spin, put my AC to -24 for approximately 24 seconds, and follow up with PfMW. With PfMW up, Defensive Spin falls, I activate Offensive Spin, and go toe to toe. The Spins, after all, are equal to PfMW in duration. Rinse and repeat.

It's going to be pure bladesinging at the endgame, I suppose.

I was wondering if Malison -> Power Attack could be effective.  Obviously not in your current solo, but if it worked it could pin her down long enough to take her down entirely with melee.  She seems particularly vulnerable to FotA +4 (no Poison head ideally).  I always thought she was immune to Slow from all sources, but is it truly just the spell effect from Symbol: Slow? 

[Saint of Sinners]

amanasleep wrote...

She seems particularly vulnerable to FotA +4 (no Poison head ideally).  I always thought she was immune to Slow from all sources, but is it truly just the spell effect from Symbol: Slow? 

It seems that way. I haven't fought this version of Melissan yet so I don't know if SCSII upped the ante of Ascension Mel. Granted, FoA does not have a save, but if Melissan really is not immune to slow, she's less of a problem than I anticipate.

The real problem here is her weapon's abilities. It can bring down saves so fast, and if she hits without any protection up, she's going to wither me at -5 saves per round. That's enough to blast me with her spells. I'm thinking of storing enough magic shielding pots, but there has to be a way around that one besides buffs. PfMW is expensive to scribe, and with even a million gold, I will be hardset to actually scribe all that.

[amanasleep]

Saint of Sinners wrote...

amanasleep wrote...

She seems particularly vulnerable to FotA +4 (no Poison head ideally).  I always thought she was immune to Slow from all sources, but is it truly just the spell effect from Symbol: Slow? 

It seems that way. I haven't fought this version of Melissan yet so I don't know if SCSII upped the ante of Ascension Mel. Granted, FoA does not have a save, but if Melissan really is not immune to slow, she's less of a problem than I anticipate.

The real problem here is her weapon's abilities. It can bring down saves so fast, and if she hits without any protection up, she's going to wither me at -5 saves per round. That's enough to blast me with her spells. I'm thinking of storing enough magic shielding pots, but there has to be a way around that one besides buffs. PfMW is expensive to scribe, and with even a million gold, I will be hardset to actually scribe all that.

What if she's vulnerable to Hold Monster?  I know that even with Malison first it would take like 5 castings to get one to stick, but that would be game over for her.

edit: Lightning Bolt of Paralyzation on the Staff of Power has no save.

Modifié par amanasleep, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:23 .

[Saint of Sinners]

amanasleep wrote...

What if she's vulnerable to Hold Monster?  I know that even with Malison first it would take like 5 castings to get one to stick, but that would be game over for her.

edit: Lightning Bolt of Paralyzation on the Staff of Power has no save.

There's no detail of her being immune to Hold either. I would know. It's darn hard to make a proper Hold effect because there are at least two types and there's the IDS consideration. But I digress. Simply put, she's got no immunity to it. Or slow. Or stun for that matter.

I think I should make a video of her getting stunned by the Celestial Fury. Methinks that could also be a check if Melissan is vulnerable.

Granted, Malison can bring down her defensesfor Power Attack and she's got no protection against the spell at all, but I do think that's not a good chance for me. A party with at least two casters can do it, but not a blade. The Staff of Power seems nice, though, so I might check that one out.

Anyway, testing should be in order. If I'm feeling a bit un-lazy, I might record a video of Melissan getting hit by weapons.

Modifié par Saint of Sinners, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:30 .

[Saint of Sinners]

Monty the Blade Update: The Cult of the Unseeing Eye

Monty vs The Cult of the Unseeing Eye

Notes:

• tackled at Lvl30
• Mainhand FoA, offhand Belm
• HLA: UAI, 5 Sound Burst, Scribe Scroll
• only the Cult, not the Unseeing Eye himself just yet

Strategy:

• Potion of invisibility pawns any beholder into submission if used correctly.
• Using the former run as a basis, we buff with simple buffs first: Imp. Haste, Magic Shielding, Mirror Image (for Gauth's physical attacks), and Invi.
• We proceed onwards, kill the lone Gauth, go invi again, go Spell Shield, kill lone beholder on top, go invi, and kill lone Gauth in the east.
• We buff with Mirror Image, Fireshield:Red, MGoI, Stoneskin, Resist Fear and go invi for the battle with clerics at the middle.
• We open with Sound Burst, which defeans some of them. We follow up with Remove Magic.
• Downhill from there. Two more Sound Bursts to kill summons. We use Remove Magic some more. Not a difficult battle.
• We go invi, position ourselves out of beholder's sight, unleash a Skull Trap to scatter them.
• As with the beginning, individual kills as seen fit.

Conclusion:

• Not bad for less than 10 minutes of work. Spellbook was calibrated after the lich battle in the undead pits. Gah, was that more difficult. Anyway, Unseeing Eye is more difficult. Might go out of the sewers first and get some more equipment. I have to kill the lich here anyway.

Modifié par Saint of Sinners, 06 juillet 2011 - 06:14 .

[AnonymousHero]

[quote]Saint of Sinners wrote...
[...] but if Melissan really is not immune to slow, she's less of a problem than I anticipate.
[/quote]
Vanilla Mel was not immune to slow (from the FoA at least), but if you slowed her she would bug out (the infamous min-HP + regen bug) and end up being completely unkillable and would never retreat to the central pillar when she was supposed to.

I'm not sure how she's supposed to behave in Ascension (i.e. if she retreats at all), so this may not be relevant there, but I thought I'd mention in case it matters.
[/quote]

[Alesia_BH]

Opps!

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:43 .

[Saint of Sinners]

Monty the Blade Update: The Unseeing Eye Himself

Took on the Unseeing Eye himself right after eradicating the cult. I decided to take him out instead of farming for some more items and opted for a strategy that is not much different from the vanilla approach. Since all beholders save for him cannot see through invisibility, the U. Eye must fall just in time when the Death Tyrants are appearing and Monty will go invi soon after to avoid them.

Monty vs The Unseeing Eye Himself

Notes:

• Tackled at Lvl31
• Mainhand FoA, offhand Belm
• HLA: UAI, 5 Sound Burst, Scribe Scrolls, Alchemy

Strategy:

• Go haste, shielded, and invi. Take the half of the rod, run away quickly.
• Go back, wait for Unseeing Eye to use his initial rays (which Spell Shield will absorb) and erect his primary contingencies, then unleash the device. This puts him into Badly Injured.
• The Death Tyrants cannot see through invisibility, so I went ahead and whacked away at the Unseeing Eye until he died. The Tyrants were too slow to react to the beating, the U. Eye falls, and I run away and go invi.
• Everything was a cinch from there. Skull Trap, bait, individual kills.

Conclusion:

• It was easier this time around because we had abundant resources available to us, unlike the first time when Monty just winged everything and risked getting killed. Anyway, off to farm some more items now. Up next on my list are dragons, liches, and some statues.

Modifié par Saint of Sinners, 06 juillet 2011 - 06:27 .