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Baldur's Gate 2 No-Reload Challenge


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#2451
AnonymousHero

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Gorthaur X wrote...
In the last version of SCS2 I fought them under (v9, I believe, so quite a while back),  the vampires could not backstab, teleport, stat-drain, and IIRC, their shapeshifting powers were much more limited. I don't remember if they could summon the hordes of diseased rats, either, but I believe that's a later addition, as well. The Swarm of Bats ability was a lot more powerful, granted, but arcane casters could block that with SI: Conjuration (and apparently even GoI, which I never tried myself, but seemed to work for Stworka in the Twisted Rune encounter), so I feel that they've been made significantly more dangerous now.

In the future, at least, I'll know to be prepared for them.

Are you running with v19? Because I definitely haven't noticed them teleporting... Nor backstabbing for that matter (I know they can attack from shadows, but haven't noticed backstab damage).

But yes, the Swarm of Bats ability was truly insane. If you were hit with two or three of those, you were basically dead. (Unless using the Rod of Resurrection, even then it was dicy with the incredible damage rate.)

#2452
Grond0

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Wierdo wrote...

@Grond0

Wow, I just noticed that your Ravvy's stats total to 104 (previous page)! That is pretty ... impressive!

That includes the 8 additions from tomes in BG1, so her original total was 96. I agree that is pretty impressive, although the character prior to her actually rolled 98!

I actually concluded that my distribution of stats was slightly sub-optimal. I could have left charisma 1 point lower and boosted constitution in order to get 18 constitution with the tome - that would allow use of the Claw of Kazgoroth without any HP penalty. I did consider whether to use the Claw in BG1 and decided not to - hence the stat distribution - but I would have liked to have it available in BG2.

Modifié par Grond0, 10 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .


#2453
Stworka

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AnonymousHero wrote...

Are you running with v19? Because I definitely haven't noticed them teleporting... Nor backstabbing for that matter (I know they can attack from shadows, but haven't noticed backstab damage).

But yes, the Swarm of Bats ability was truly insane. If you were hit with two or three of those, you were basically dead. (Unless using the Rod of Resurrection, even then it was dicy with the incredible damage rate.)


I for one used Rods, but hey, the video is right there, two posts before yours :whistle:
The trick is to either curbstomp all the vampires as soon as the fight starts (Sunrays and ADHW's) or tank the bat swarms with GoI or Fireshields (if you have the version enabled).

I tried using dispel magic, but it failed every single time i can remember. 
Eventually you can halve the damage with shielding potion - if it's elemental - or AoF + DoE if it's not.

A stacked Swarm of Bats is almost always going to kill you, but there is an upside : You will not die permanently.

Bodhi drains 5 levels a hit though, and can very well chunk half your party in a single round. Her death shroud kills all summons and her aoe-vampiric touch (coupled with hell full-heal once she 'dies') make her much tougher.

What does the elven holy water do anyway? I keep using it, but never seen the numbers behind it/

Modifié par Stworka, 10 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .


#2454
Gorthaur X

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AnonymousHero wrote...

Are you running with v19? Because I definitely haven't noticed them teleporting... Nor backstabbing for that matter (I know they can attack from shadows, but haven't noticed backstab damage).

But yes, the Swarm of Bats ability was truly insane. If you were hit with two or three of those, you were basically dead. (Unless using the Rod of Resurrection, even then it was dicy with the incredible damage rate.)


Well, this is a list of vampire abilities, straight from the horse's mouth (DavidW on the SCS board). Emphasis mine:

- turn into a cloud of mist, reappear elsewhere on the battlefield
- turn into a bat, run away for a while until hit points regenerate
-
turn into a rat, hide in shadows, come back and backstab (these
vampires are assumed to be ex-thieves, though I don't systematically
assign a character class - not least because 2nd edition lacks a
mechanism)
- turn into a dire wolf, attack (used against non-level-draining opponents)
- drain blood (ditto)
- mesmerise (one-round stun effect, blocked by anti-stun protections but not anti-charm ones)


I do think the new abilities are better, all things considered: the original, modded Swarm had the problem of being devastatingly effective against anyone not protected from it, and completely ineffectual against anyone who was - essentially, it had the same problem as level drain, which it was meant to address.

Still, I sure am glad I've been avoiding vampires like the plague in this game. Don't want to take them on in large numbers any sooner than I must.

#2455
Gorthaur X

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Stworka wrote...
I for one used Rods, but hey, the video is right there, two posts before yours :whistle:
The trick is to either curbstomp all the vampires as soon as the fight starts (Sunrays and ADHW's) or tank the bat swarms with GoI or Fireshields (if you have the version enabled).


Unless it's been changed since the last time I tried it (and it may very well have been, with all the overhauls), Fireshields don't stop the bats; they only work on the insect swarms.

I'm surprised that GoI works, too, though if it did for you, I guess it must. That seems to imply the new Swarm of Bats is based on the third-level Summon Insects, rather than Insect Swarm (L5) or Creeping Doom (L7).

Modifié par Gorthaur X, 10 octobre 2011 - 04:22 .


#2456
Stworka

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Gorthaur X wrote...

Unless it's been changed since the last time I tried it (and it may very well have been, with all the overhauls), Fireshields don't stop the bats; they only work on the insect swarms.

I'm surprised that GoI works, too, though if it did for you, I guess it must. That seems to imply the new Swarm of Bats is based on the third-level Summon Insects, rather than Insect Swarm (L5) or Creeping Doom (L7).


During the installation you are asked whether or not you wish fireshield to stop the bats as well.

Although i admit, my GoI information may be outdated, as i base it on my notes on v13 of SCSII. I'll test it more, but not during this ironman :blink: 
Interesting fact : GoI (as well as it's minor version) does stop lava in the fire giant temple. It's a vanilla bug that makes damage dealt by lava a level 1 spell. It's fixed in SCSII though (v10 i believe is when we added it)

I'm still curious about the holy water though. You receive three bottles, one for the pool upstairs, one for Bodhi and one to.. remind you about Elhan..? What do They do?

Modifié par Stworka, 10 octobre 2011 - 04:42 .


#2457
AnonymousHero

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Gorthaur X wrote...

DavidW wrote...
- turn into a rat, hide in shadows, come back and backstab

Do they actually get a meaningful backstab multiplier, though? Playing a Barbarian right now, so naturally I can't test (immunity to backstab, ftw!)

Gorthaur X wrote...

DavidW wrote...
- mesmerise (one-round stun effect, blocked by anti-stun protections but not anti-charm ones)

I don't think I've ever seen that particular one, but then maybe I've always been protected from stun.

The vamps do certainly require more careful play, that's for sure. The only real complaints I've had are: the rats detect the PC through script (cannot attack, but follow unfailingly), the CON drain lasts way to long. Other than that it's all good. :)

Modifié par AnonymousHero, 10 octobre 2011 - 04:46 .


#2458
Gorthaur X

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Stworka wrote...

During the installation you are asked whether or not you wish fireshield to stop the bats as well.


Huh. That was not the case with the last version of SCS I had installed, and I'm not getting asked with v19, either. Is it possible that that was also a choice available in v13, but later removed with the revision of the component?

AnonymousHero wrote...

Do they actually get a meaningful
backstab multiplier, though? Playing a Barbarian right now, so naturally
I can't test (immunity to backstab, ftw!)


I'm not sure: it got a little hectic in that fight, and I was too focused on survival to notice (though I don't think they have a huge backstab multiplier). I'll make a note of it the next time I fight vampires, assuming I'm unlucky enough to get backstabbed in the first place.

Modifié par Gorthaur X, 10 octobre 2011 - 05:37 .


#2459
Grond0

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Ravvy has just been granted the title of Great Druid.

After returning from De'Arnise Keep she had just enough money to buy the simulacrum helm.  The first outing for this was on an ambush and could easily have been its last!  Ravvy and her Simmy were improved invisible and thought a mage teleporting to them would cause no trouble, but he got off a confusion as he died and both werewolfs were confused.  Fortunately the rest of the bandits stayed at the other end of the area and no damage was done.

On the way to Trademeet Ravvy thought she would deal with the Rakshasa at the Inn - bit of a let down when the place was empty (I forgot that I don't have that mod installed at the moment).  Arriving at Trademeet Ravvy set about working through the trolls.  With the simmy available this was a far quicker process than at the De'Arnise Keep.  I think I'm going to have to stop her summoning nymphs though - their script is over-riding all my commands and they spend their time casting wasted spells.  They're also annoying against spirit trolls because they auto-pause continuously in reaction to the spirit trolls invisibility. 

The groups of druids were quickly dealt with, but the spore colonies took a little longer as the simmy got confused quickly.  Further along the path Ravvy looked on during the battle of the bears.  She was still slightly short of level 14 and wanted to reach that before challenging Faldorn, so came back to Trademeet to deal with the djinni.  AFter purchasing most of the decent potions from the rakshasa she also attacked them.  The initial assault by the summons inflicted no damage, but did use up quite a few spells.  After waiting for spell protections to elapse Ravvy took a hand herself.  Her divine wrath Bhaal ability proved incredibly effective on this occasion and Ihtafeer's death immediately afterwards got Ravvy to level 14.  The other 2 rakshasas followed shortly and, after a rest, Ravvy headed for the Druid Grove.

In the ring Faldorn used improved invisibility, but not before insect plague was launched and in the succeeding battle of the shapeshifters there was only ever going to be one winner.  After resting again and talking to the Spirit of the Grove Ravvy launched her challenge.  The initial exchange of insect spells was fruitless when both participants were protected by magic resistance.  Ravvy then summoned her simmy, who quickly got to work.  The simmy's MR also kicked in against Nature's Beauty and it wasn't long before Ravvy gained her title.  She's still got a lot of work to do to get the important 15th level (which I've never managed with a druid before), but I'm hopeful.

#2460
corey_russell

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@Grond0: Sounds like you are doing well, keep it up! Level 15 takes forever with a druid but when you do you get 13 spell slots! When my level 9 fighter dualed to druid got to level 15 he became a powerhouse (guess it's no surprise he managed to beat Melissan!)

#2461
Gate70

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BGT on Linux.
BG2 Fixpack; core fixes
One Pixel Productions; visual changes
Ascension;
-Core changes, Tougher Abazigal, Demogorgon, Gromnir, Illasera, Yaga-Shura
BGT
BG2_TWEAKS;
- Unlimited Bags / stacks, Turn off hideous cloak / mirroring animations
- Add Bonus merchants, BG2 stats for Viconia, Jaheira, Minsc, Edwin
Generalised Biffing; reduces game lagging

Morig, LG human male cavalier. Low level run through BG with Imoen, Viconia, Jaheira, Edwin and Coran so arrived in SOA with only 70k xp.
Posted Image

Edwin has read the tome of intelligence, Viconia three tomes of wisdom and I have taken those for charisma, strength, dexterity and constitution. All useless when we are ambushed by Mae'var.

I am re-united with Imoen and Jaheira, and free a ranger called Minsc but decline his company.

#2462
Gorthaur X

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Hador finished the Windspear Dungeon with little difficulty. After the vampires, everything else felt like a breeze - literally, given some of the golems' tendency to pass gas, but they were stupid enough to focus on a Mordy while the party beat them at range.

We opted not to fight Firkraag at this time, and his wizard minion was no match for us. Poor bugger never got a single spell off.

Posted Image
"Mom was right, should've become a dentist."

Hador's thief guild duties called him back to Athkatla, so I decided to face the Crooked Crane lich. Battling an undead spellcaster in an enclosed space with no way out was a frightening prospect, but we'd heard rumours of this lich having several useful wands in his possession, and we'd been lacking a Wand of Cloudkill ever since the incident with Roger.

We entered relatively well buffed: Hador and Edwin were protected from magical energy, Spell Shielded, immune to abjuration magic and so on. Viconia decided to rely on her 75% MR, which turned out to be a mistake. The lich's Horrid Wilting got through her magic resistance and she failed her save in the first round, trying to cast False Dawn:

Posted Image
"Ouch."

Fortunately, we had a Rod of Resurrection, and Viconia did not get to rest for more than a few seconds. However, the setback did give the lich the time he needed to cast Time Stop, which he used to gate in a Pit Fiend. In response, Jaheira summoned Kitthix to bolster our ranks - just in time before being herself imprisoned.

Fortunately, by now our mages had finally managed to batter their way through the lich's defenses, and the fight was essentially over on the dead wizard's part. Kitthix was a great help here - she kept the devil webbed just long enough to allow everyone to focus on the lich.

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"FATALITY!"

The devil still proved to be a pest, casting a Wish that stripped us of our protections, followed by a Symbol: Pain. Fortunately, Hador had another PfMW memorized, and Viconia had made sure we were all resistant to fear before entering the lich's chamber. Good thing, too, since we didn't make our saves against his terror aura:

Posted Image
"The Prime Material Plane hopes you had a pleasant stay; please visit again."

One thing I like about aTweaks is that it at least lets the party gain experience for the demons they kill. They certainly are dangerous enough to warrant it.

We had planned to hunt down Valygar next, but with the Wand of Cloudkill, the Guarded Compound might also be doable. Hador certainly could use a +3 weapon before going to the Planar Sphere and having to fight demons.

Modifié par Gorthaur X, 11 octobre 2011 - 02:36 .


#2463
Alesia_BH

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Stworka wrote...
Although I admit, my GoI information may be outdated, as i base it on my notes on v13 of SCSII.


As of SCS 15, there were three versions of Cloud of Bats. One was specific to Bodhi and was Level 7. The others were Level 5 and Level 3 respectively. GoI would work on the latter.

The Level 3 one was schooled to Conjuration so SI:C could foil it as well. The Level 5 one was Schoolless.

Spell Turning was effective and the Vamps did take damage from the bats.

The damage was physical so Rat + Defender should foil the damage and even give a bit of regen. 

I can't comment on other SCS versions. 

Best,

A.


Btw. With grave appologies to NPC Alora fans, I'm considering letting the taint overwhelm her and have her go evil in the Hell Trials. I quite like the image of her strolling into battle playing paddle-ball and sucking on lollipops with Sarevok over one shoulder and Viconia over the other...

Btw II: A quick note on those Flame Arrow (x3) Triggers that the soloist may appreciate. It you have Autopause: Hit active, you'll get a pause when the first arrow makes contact.
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That gives you a window to bring your counter into play (ideally the Reflection Shield).

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2011 - 04:05 .


#2464
Gorthaur X

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That would explain it - I went straight from v9 to v16 (and then to v19), so I missed the behavior Stworka is talking about.

#2465
Alesia_BH

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One amusing note on the vamp discussion.

I let my eyes quickly scan the page and saw " turn into a rat, hide in shadows, come back, and backstab". I thought it was advice on how to counter vamps rather then one of their new abilities.

I may have Alora do that with a Phantom Blade once she gets UAI...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2011 - 06:57 .


#2466
Alesia_BH

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Quick Note on Alora's Game:

I'm leaving town later in the afternoon. I'm going to try to get Alora to the Underdark before then.

I have a couple mage battles (Perth, Spellhold Lich) on file if anyone is interested in seeing her pre-UAI high level mage fighting tactics. If you are curious, let me know.

Best,

A.

#2467
Serg BlackStrider

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Alesia_BH wrote...

I have a couple mage battles (Perth, Spellhold Lich) on file if anyone is interested in seeing her pre-UAI high level mage fighting tactics. If you are curious, let me know.

Best,

A.


Personally I'm very curious. *To live is to learn* :wizard:
I'm thinking about Gnomish Cleric/Thief as my next alter-ego (inspired by Alora's astounding backstab output) so any new experience is definitely welcome :)

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 11 octobre 2011 - 07:25 .


#2468
Grond0

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A moment of inattention was fatal for Ravvy.  After returning from Trademeet she did a few more tasks around the city, including starting the Mae'Var quests.  She was asked to deal with Rayic Gethras and went to his house thinking about the encounter with the wizard, but didn't make it that far.
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Even though my last character also fell to mephits my unconscious has obviously not yet internalised the danger and Ravvy hesitated for a second rather than immediately taking a potion of freedom - she got no second chance.

#2469
Alesia_BH

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Personally I'm very curious. *To live is to learn* Posted Image
I'm thinking about Gnomish Cleric/Thief as my next alter-ego (inspired by Alora's astounding backstab output) so any new experience is definitely welcome [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]


Ok. I may have time to post before I leave. 

Have fun with your C/T. His backstab output should be noticeably higher than Alora's if he makes use of his Cleric buffs.

Btw. One quick note that you may appreciate. You'll presumably be using Staves to Backstab with your C/T. Aside from the damage, the main reason they've become my favorite Backstabbing weapon is that they are Range 2. That takes a lot of the risk out of Backstabbing since you can smack from outside of many character's melee ranges while also having an easier route to the Shadows afterwards. Try to get in the habit of stabbing from the edge of your Staffs melee range to take advantage of this.

@Grond0- Sorry to hear about Ravvy. She was doing so well. :(

Mephits are irksome little buggers aren't they? (especially when they kill you...)

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with next. :)

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2011 - 08:44 .


#2470
Alesia_BH

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Alora v. Perth

I'll post on the Perth battle since I uploaded the screenshots for that one earlier. Note well: The Mage script here is SCS 15. I also have an older version of G3 installed which will have implications at one stage of the battle. I'll also forewarn that this won't be a comprehensive tutorial Serg since I'm pressed for time.


For Alora, Mage battles are all about patience and timing. Patience allows her to leverage her Stealth abilities while minimizing the Mage's buff advantage. Timing permits her to counter opponent moves and therefore keep out of harms way.

This particular battle wasn't well executed really. Alora missed a number of opportunities and could have been more aggressive. Nonetheless, it was safe and that's the important thing for our purposes in this thread: having a method that is safe even if you screw up.

The battle began when Alora tried to pickpocket the Wardstone off of Perth. She got the Book of Infinite Spells instead, so she had to fight. Her first move was to activate her Ring of Invisibility.

Perth's Pre-Buffs fired. They included a Chained Simulacrum. Alora made a minor error here- she could have Backstabbed the Simmy to death before it cast Stoneskins but she hesitated before approaching.
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There was little Alora could do while Perth was running ProMW. Fortunately, there wasn't much Perth could do either since Alora was invisible. SCS mages will cast on themselves when facing invisible opponents. It is wise to keep your distance so you are out of the AoE. In this case, Perth used Emotion and ADHW amongst other. Alora was out of range however.

Simmy Perth cast Oracle. Since Alora was Invisible via the Ring of Invisibility, she was revealed. She countered with her Ring of Air Control.
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Perth tried to reveal her again. This was worth trying. Each round that passes shifts the odds in favor of Alora. It didn't work for him however. In older versions of G3, the Cloak of Non-Detection works with Ring of Air Control Improved Invisibility.
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Perth's buffs started running out. At that point, he attempted to use Invisibility to protect himself. Alora countered with Detect Illusions.
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Up untill this point, the battle has been a stalemate. That is about to end. 

Alora's prefered method for taking down Mages is Dispelling Arrow-> Poison (via Arrows of Biting or Darts of Wounding). She did not have her Poison Ammo with her however, since she trimmed her inventory before leaving for Spellhold. The Poison stuff was left behind because she knew she'd find more in the Asylum. It would have been nice to have here.
 
Summon Efreeti-> Arrow of Dispelling->Invisibility->Backstab can often be an effective way to finish a Stoneskinned mage. The Efreeti can draw out a cast for you. When the mage's Aura is clouded, you can Dispel and execute the Backstab. Note that Efreetis have 3 Invisibility Casts at their disposal which makes then especially valuable summons for Thieves.

The plan did not work at all this time though.

Oppsy...
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Alora rushed to her Efreeti and caught an Invisibility cast however disrupting Perth's spell. Alora frequently uses invisibility to interupt spells.
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Ok Mr. Efreet, let's try that again. I'll get closer this time as well. Um, Mr. Efreeti...Are you there?
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Without the Efreeti, Alora opted to save her Dispelling Arrows and go with an inelegant but effective method: ranged fire and counters. Tuigan with Cold Arrows is her preferred means of taking out Stoneskins. Again, she left a lot of her ammo behind to make room in her inventory before leaving for Spellhold.

Fighting mages from a distance has a few advantages. First, you stay out of Maze range. Second, you have a wider window for spell countering. Here are some example's of counters.

After Alora took down Perth's Stoneskins, he tried his Flame Arrow(x3) Trigger. A Potion of Fire Resistance cushioned the blow. Alora just needed a Potion of Extra Healing to counter here. Note that Autopause: Hit gave her the opportunity to make other moves as well if she desired. 
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Perth tried Chaos next. Alora countered with a Potion of Clarity.
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So long as you have a comprehensive tactical tool kit that covers all potential threats -and keep your aura clear so that you can counter at the correct time- this is safe. If you screw up the timing though, you can quickly find yourself in trouble. That's where the Dispelling Arrows come in handy: they minimize your exposure time and therefore the reduce the risk of a timing error.

If you are worried about getting your timing wrong, then it would behoove you to apply buffs while invisibile- just be sure that you've drawn out the Remove Magics before layering in the expensive or rare stuff..

Once Perth was out of skins, it didn't take long for him to fall. At this stage, multiple hit weapons are prefereable since they increase the probability of disruption. Poison can be efficient as well.
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In any event, this wasn't an especially well fought battle, but it should give you a sense of how solo single class thieves can handle Mages pre-UAI. Patience, timing, and effective item use. Dispelling Arrows and good execution can minimize risk, but the arrows aren't essential and there is margin for error.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2011 - 09:59 .


#2471
Stworka

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@Vampires.


I'm 99% sure that
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #2120 // Slightly weaken insect plague spells, and let fire shields block them: v18

Affects Swarm of Bats as well. It did ever since i remember.

Alesia_BH wrote...
I have a couple mage battles (Perth, Spellhold Lich) on file if anyone is interested in seeing her pre-UAI high level mage fighting tactics. If you are curious, let me know.


Go for it, it's always better to see a breakdown. Esp. mental ones! 
Edit : Ahh! You ninja'ed  an update before i finished my message! Well played! :ph34r:

Modifié par Stworka, 11 octobre 2011 - 09:42 .


#2472
HoonDing

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@Gorthaur: I see your party was protected from evil. Why didn't this render you invisibile to the devil?

#2473
Serg BlackStrider

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Alesia_BH wrote...

Ok. I may have time to post before I leave. 

Have fun with your C/T. His backstab output should be noticeably higher than Alora's if he makes use of his Cleric buffs.

Btw. One quick note that you may appreciate. You'll presumably be using Staves to Backstab with your C/T. Aside from the damage, the main reason they've become my favorite Backstabbing weapon is that they are Range 2. That takes a lot of the risk out of Backstabbing since you can smack from outside of many character's melee ranges while also having an easier route to the Shadows afterwards. Try to get in the habit of stabbing from the edge of your Staffs melee range to take advantage of this.


Thanks! :) I appreciate that as well as your tips:) 
As for C/T run - its a future intention at the moment. I have to finish my Cleric/Illusionist as of yet and I'm not used to run multiple chars contemporaneously.

#2474
Alesia_BH

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Stworka wrote...
 Well played! :ph34r:


Not especially really, but it is an example of reliable approach for Thieves versus mages. Stealth->Detect->Dispel->Destroy. :)

Did you ever watch Mr. Rogers? You know how he would have the little art project lessons and his stuff would always look messy at the end? This post is kind of like that...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2011 - 10:05 .


#2475
Deaderinred

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Question to all: Have any of you completed a no reload run via GemRB? I've just discovered i can get all the infinity engine games running on my shiny new phone with it and I'm pondering restarting it on that or maybe just continue on with my modded trilogy no reload run (haven't seriously played it for a few months I'm currently in BG2 starting the Umar Hills stuff) i figure though with GemRB it would have to be played modless? If I restart the challenge on my phone i could probably get through it quicker when I'm no where near my pc, not even sure how buggy is it either..