16377 réponses à ce sujet

[After5CST]

I spent some time this morning looking at Near Infinity on my machine ( bgt_weidu ). The dialog tree is slightly modified by the protagonist's sex ( "Mother" or "Father" ), but is not influenced by any stat checks I could find.

What was interesting was at the end of the dialog, Bassilus will "shout" a message, either 1 or 2. If an undead in Bassilus' area "heard" a 1, it will "shout" a 1 and then become hostile. If an undead "heard" a 2, it will "shout" a 2 and then kill itself.

As a result, depending on where Bassilus and the skeletons are on the map, it is entirely possible for the skeletons to not hear anything (and just wander around blue), turn hostile, or kill themselves based off of what they "heard" at the moment.

Note that "shout" and "heard" definitely have some kind of range limitation.  Whether or not they have line-of-sight limitations as well is unknown to me.

Modifié par After5CST, 28 octobre 2011 - 05:54 .

[Grond0]

corey_russell wrote...

Spjuv3rn wrote...

corey_russell wrote...


If that's so,  I wonder what the key stat it's checking is then. Wisdom? I have often answered it correctly before, but the undead army didn't disappear.

The same character also had 3 WIS and INT so unless its checking your combat stats it must be dialogue dependant.

In my install at least, while it does depend on dialogue, I choose exactly same dialogue each time, and the skeleton army disappears only with one with the right stats. My understanding it was checking CHA, can anyone confirm? It would be strange if this was random (e.g., a check/save on Bassilus himself, and if that's so it wouldn't matter on the speaker, assuming he did the right choices).

Just tested this with my vanilla installation and a character with dexterity 9 and everything else 3.  Normal dialogue followed and everything died (including undead obscured by pillars), except for one skeleton that had wandered off a bit.  I think the check is therefore against proximity rather than specifically visual range.

Edit: didn't read After5CST's post until too late!

Modifié par Grond0, 28 octobre 2011 - 06:20 .

[corey_russell]

Grond0 wrote...

corey_russell wrote...

Spjuv3rn wrote...

corey_russell wrote...


If that's so,  I wonder what the key stat it's checking is then. Wisdom? I have often answered it correctly before, but the undead army didn't disappear.

The same character also had 3 WIS and INT so unless its checking your combat stats it must be dialogue dependant.

In my install at least, while it does depend on dialogue, I choose exactly same dialogue each time, and the skeleton army disappears only with one with the right stats. My understanding it was checking CHA, can anyone confirm? It would be strange if this was random (e.g., a check/save on Bassilus himself, and if that's so it wouldn't matter on the speaker, assuming he did the right choices).

Just tested this with my vanilla installation and a character with dexterity 9 and everything else 3.  Normal dialogue followed and everything died (including undead obscured by pillars), except for one skeleton that had wandered off a bit.  I think the check is therefore against proximity rather than specifically visual range.

Edit: didn't read After5CST's post until too late!

Guess that means I need to send my thief to talk to him, as Bassilus always seems to talk to us at extreme range in my install.

EDIT: I realized now that usually in past runs he ends up seeing us direct west of his position, but this run I approached him from the south (to get closer to him before he sees us). Maybe proximity is the issue. Guess I could  take Dualtest and have him try this out a few times.

Modifié par corey_russell, 28 octobre 2011 - 06:57 .

[After5CST]

Just to complicate things a bit, both Bassilus and the local Skeletons (I didn't check the Zombies, but assume they are also the same) also use a generic SHOUT.BCS script.

The "gist" of that is if character "A" is attacked while NEUTRAL, he will SHOUT 99 and then turn hostile. Any other NEUTRAL (blue) characters within should range that HEARD a 99 will also turn hostile. SHOUT.bcs is of higher priority than other scripts.

As a result, if you managed to fire off something that hits a blue-circle, but managed to initiate dialog with Bassilus anyway, it's entirely possible somebody might SHOUT out a 99 and cause the skeletons to turn hostile (rather than having HEARD a 2 and deciding to destroy themselves).

[corey_russell]

In my recent past runs, other than the current one, when I do the right dialog, the skeletons stay blue circle (don't destroy themselves) but then when Bassilus dies, they turn hostile. But again, this is when he talks to us at extreme range, will try talking him at different places and see if I can get some consistent results.

[After5CST]

Based on my modest knowledge of the Infinity Engine, the skeletons can become an enemy() through any of the following mechanisms (in order from highest to lowest priority):

• Attacked by any PC-related character (SHOUT.BCS)
• Heard Shout #99 from anyone (SHOUT.BCS)
• Heard Shout #1 from Bassilus (SKELETB.BCS)
• Heard Shout #1 from a Bassilus Skeleton (SKELETB.BCS)
• Heard Shout #1 from another Bassilus Zombie ( SKELETB.BCS)
• Attacked by any PC-related character (WDARSGT.BCS)

That pretty much sums it up.  Now to cover Bassilus:

• He will Shout #99 if Attacked by any PC-related character (SHOUT.BCS)
• He will Shout #99 if he takes damage from any PC-related character ( SHOUT.BCS )
• He will initiate dialog if he sees a member of the PC's party (not
  summons), and will Shout #1 (telling undead to attack) or Shout #2 (telling undead to kill themselves) based on dialog. (BASSILUS.BCS)

That's pretty much it.

Based on your description, it sounds like the Skeletons are missing his initial Shout #2 (and thus staying blue), and then are turning Enemy() based on a later Shout #99 (when Bassilus takes damage from you).

My best guess is that the easiest workaround for this would be that when Bassilus goes hostile (but the undead don't hear his Shout #2), to just draw him away from the blue circle undead some distance before damaging him.  That way, when he does a Shout #99, they don't hear him and go hostile.

Modifié par After5CST, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:05 .

[Gate70]

Forin, LG human male cavalier berserker mwahaha.

Bandits with arrows and Taugosz Khosann. Maybe after a shop, and another fund-raising battle. I cast PfE and glug a potion of freedom before saying hello to this chap.


His reward allows me to finance some more equipment, albeit to the detriment of my constitution.


What next? Potions of absorbtion, hill giant strength and regeneration then PfE and starting with Taugosz to try and remove the biggest risk first.


He's going down but despite my massive missile defence bonus I get a few critical arrow hits down to 23hp but regenerating and carving the bandits up. This is going to be close.


Six bandits are down, three more just far enough away for me to glug a blue potion and attack again. I quickly make my way towards Ardenor Crush, stopping briefly to cast lay on hands and a minor healing.


Level 7, +7hp. I rush back to the main tent 63/65hp, cast PfE and glug a second potion of freedom then enter the tent to hopefully start with Venkt.


The regeneration wears off but I should be able to deal with these three, starting with Raemon.


Britik is next.


I regain control long enough to target Hakt.


That went well, other than burning potions which is something I avoid wherever possible but no choice as far as I could see.

Modifié par Gate70, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:16 .

[Grond0]

Impressive stuff Gate - you obviously have a keen insight in how to play a raging maniac.

[Gate70]

Thanks Grond0. Forin, LG human male cavalier berserker mwahaha.

A lightning trap is no problem, and I loot the tent then the bandits. Taugosz donates his armour to my cause and I sell what I can in Beregost. On to Cloakwood.

It could be worse like wyverns.


It could be MUCH worse. I take a lightning strike from Seniyad, kill his followers and start to attack Aldeth. Fortunately I come to my senses after an attack animation but before a real attack. The same thing happens with Tiber.

I cautiously spring traps then slice ettercaps and spiders. A dreary abode is carefully negotiated so I take three spiders, a spider and two ettercaps then Centeol and two more spiders. Forin is now refusing to un-berserk so I cannot move, save or do anything. Curses, suspect I will have to reload and try Centeol again and if it works I then have the dilemma of whether to carry on berserking or move to free action. Also a bit concerned as I'm vaguely remembering something about this sword and Centeol being problematic.

EDIT, same result and a game-breaker. The only action that works is CTRL/Y so stuffed. I'll try a temple remove curse and use Varscona tomorrow, which means I'll probably stick with Spiders Bane from that point.

Modifié par Gate70, 29 octobre 2011 - 12:17 .

[corey_russell]

Vessen the level 5 halfling cleric continues his adventure...

The southern two rows of areas and are all clear now, except the ogre area directly north of the gnoll fortress.

Lots of "fun" on the valley of the 3 tombs map. I had almost the entire map cleared then the game crashed looting one of the coffins after beating the Revenant. My last auto-save was FAI. Drats. So we deja-vu again...

When we get here we rest. Then we headed to the northern edge of the area. Time to deal with the Amazon assassins...the only question is how best to do so...Hmm, Lily and Uriah can both cast web, Paja call lightning (2x if needed) and Vessen silence, shouldn't that be pretty devasting. We didn't try to fight out of the fog of war or anything, we walked right to them and cast these 4 spells. We then did ranged fire to finish them all. This got Vessen to level 5 and 3 level 3 spells, nice. We looted the considerable amount of loot here and pressed on. Lily was able to identify the loot except one thing and used Identify spell on a leather.



The undead in the tombs could not offer any appreciable resistance.

The mage and his jellies -- ranged fire from the entire party killed him before he could get his mirror image up. As for his jellies everyone melee attacked except for Uriah who used fire arrows. Lily got hurt bad, but Paja slow poisoned her twice, the jellies still liked Lily so I walked her way out of range. The two jelly mustards were then defeated without further incident.  I met a lot of ankhegs on this map, didnt realize one coud meet so many. This worked out nicely, however as it got Hanna to level 5.

I am pleased with the party progress so far.

Party Status:
Joshua - level 4 paladin, 38 HP
Hanna - level 5 fighter, 56 HP
Lily - level 5 bard, 29 HP
Paja - level 5 druid, 27 HP
Vessen - level 5 cleric, 35 HP
Uriah - level 3 mage/level 4 thief, 19 HP

Modifié par corey_russell, 29 octobre 2011 - 07:20 .

[SpiffyKeen]

Ugh!  The powerful wizard R.L. held me captive for more than a week now!  Luckily I was able to escape.  Glad to see all the activity! 

-------------------------------------

Zigana decided to stay away from the bandits for a while.  She healed and rested in Nashkel, bought more scrolls at the carnival, fought Greywolf in a battle that required far too many potions, Leveled up to 8/9 with +6 hp and reached 3 pips in dual wield and 100 points in find traps.    Then she traveled east, burned up some ghasts in an ambush, met a strange gnome who gave her a nice scroll, fought some dread wolves (decided to use skeletons to help out), found some treasure in a cliff.  After that she traveled north and found more caves!  Skeletons are a cinch now, but fire is still needed against ghasts, although she can now use free action, but then she got diseased!  She used skeletons against some green slimes (but should have just run), used fire on various enemies, and met a mean band of four women (skeletons on the front lines again).  Overloaded with loot, she storred some in a cave, then traveled to Durlag's Tower. 

There she was able to sell her goods, rest (with dream), healed, and then fire-blasted lots of horrors, shape-shifters, and skeletons.  It took many charges, but her wand of the heavens still had 70 charges!  Inside, she fought ghasts, basilisks (potions of mirror eyes and then skeletons ... and almost got caught without protection at one point!), more dopplegangers, and then just looted the place up.  No need to go into the dungeon. 

From there, she continued north to Firewine and met a poet and a cocky fighter.  Around Gullykin she met some more mercenaries looking for her.  They fell easily while distracted by skeletons.  She healed and then went back to Beregost to sell another load of loot.  It was then she realized what a nice pair of guantlets she had stumbled upon.  She went back to find her cave storage unit, and sold all that off at Nashkel and High Hedge.  After getting some items recharged at Thaly's store, it was finally time to approach the 2nd bandit hideout.  She used a potion of speed and fire to stop a wvyren ambush.

At the hideout, she scouted and then rested to get to full health (had to sleep twice in different places).  Used sleep on the regular guards and farsight on the mercenary party followed by fire, skeletons, and finally Hold Person.  She did get too aggressive and ended up confused by the mage who had more hitpoints than expected (perhaps he didn't get singed by the fireball), but the skeletons were enough distraction to keep Zigana safe until she gained her senses again.  I should have recognized that I was no longer being very careful at this point, if not before.  From there she cleared the mines with relative ease.  Groups of bandits and guards had no hope against her, but the large group with Hareishan kept her on her toes.  She always made sure to stay hidden between surprise ranged fire attacks.  On the 3rd level down, Zigana's confidence was getting too high (I did not notice it at the time) as she meleed many foes with success. 

Finally, the boss confrontation!  Skeletons and stragetic fire exhausted Dave to the point where Zigana moved in with melee and finished him off. 



From there she looted, freed the slaves, and met a dwarf who was willing to help her carry some of the loot.  But before leaving I decided to clean out the rest of the mines, which meant the ogre mage and another mage.  I guess I got into the "clear area" mentailty.  I should have just left them to be flooded.  So a successful Confusion and a few Magic Missiles from the ogre mage ends the Zigana no-reload run.  However, I find this game enjoyable enough that I will continue in the minimal reload thread. 

[Grond0]

SpiffyKeen wrote...
From there she looted, freed the slaves, and met a dwarf who was willing to help her carry some of the loot.  But before leaving I decided to clean out the rest of the mines, which meant the ogre mage and another mage.  I guess I got into the "clear area" mentailty.  I should have just left them to be flooded.  So a successful Confusion and a few Magic Missiles from the ogre mage ends the Zigana no-reload run.  However, I find this game enjoyable enough that I will continue in the minimal reload thread. 

Hard luck SpiffyKeen.  I can certainly empathize with that approach!

[Gate70]

Condolences Spiffykeen.

Forin, LG human male cavalier berserker mwahaha.

For reference, my second attempt at Centeol.


It's a long way to a temple so I explore not been around Centeols lair for a long time.


I push on through Cloakwood, past Eldoth. Then I am ambushed. Uh-oh, big trouble.


Don't mess with me still got all 65hp at this stage.


It's a mighty bite but not enough and I make a swift prayer that I live long enough to fight a real dragon.


A hamadryad is knocking on deaths door.


This doesn't look so good, one is injured but so am I.


One is down please target the other adult. Then I drop a baby wyvern, get hit again 37hp, kill a second offspring and then the third. Finally the remaining parent.


I'm loaded up with four wyvern skulls so speak to a hunter called Coran then drop one off at a temple without his aid, and sell the other three in Beregost. Time to stock up with more potions, a scroll or two, a magical amulet, another ring and another piece of Kazgaroth bought this for Kysus and Rezdan but thinking the 18 seconds is no good as they both perform a defensive spell before unleashing spells.

Samuel encumbers me by 2lb. I seriously consider dropping a pair of blue potions but decide not to. It is slow work but Samuel survives. I help Garrick, realising my spare boots grounding are still in the wyvern cave.

Bit concerned that if Silke goes invisible I may start on Garrick and the merchants. I disrupt her spell and kill her with a second blow, then chunk Faltis no reputation loss and Glayde still rewards me.

Garrick starts to sidle off, but I force him to identify some equipment for me and pack-horse it to a store. Then I return to Cloakwood, where two more pairs of wyverns ambush me. Back to sell four more skulls after dropping three ettercaps.

I retrieve my boots and girdle from the wyvern cave and head towards Cloakwood mine. Two more wyverns, only this time they kill me.

Amazed how well that run had been going. Think I'm going to continue it in the campfire to see how it pans out.

[Vaclavc]

My condolences, Spiffykeen.

@Gate70: Forin's run (mwahaha) is one of the most impressive runs I have seen here so far! I really hope he will make it to the final battle!

corey_russell wrote...
Lots of "fun" on the valley of the 3 tombs map. I had almost the entire map cleared then the game crashed looting one of the coffins after beating the Revenant. My last auto-save was FAI. Drats. So we deja-vu again...

I hate when this happens. Once, I had to replay rather small portion of wilderness area after the game crash and my character died fighting some random monster.



Update on soloing human thief Arizulah:
When Gorion died during ambush, Arizulah traveled across High Hedge to Beregost. He defeated various minor monsters and completed as many easy quests available around town as he could. Then, he moved to Friendly Arm Inn, where he cleared the area from hobgoblins and returned Joia her ring. To get inside the inn, Arizulah sneaked around Tarnesh. Inside, he collected reward from Landrin for clearing her spider infested house back in Beregost.
Arizulah traveled south to Nashkel. He killed Amazing Oopah, Zordral and Neira. In Nashkel mines area, he defeated Greywolf and took emeralds from dead body of Prism.
Arizulah returned to Nashkel to collect reward for the emeralds. He bought several potions of master thievery from merchant near Duarlag’s tower and pickpocketed various useful potions from Xzar, Montaron and Jaheira. Using Oil of Speed, he hunted vampiric wolves near Beregost temple. Arizulah also helped priestess Tenya against fishermen and defeated half-ogres for paladin Bjornin.
Next, Arizulah investigated Nashkel mines. He killed Mulahey, assassin Nimbul and Tranzig.
Arizulah is currently level 6 thief with 31HP.
Few “backstabbing” shots:






V

[Grond0]

The wyverns may have got their revenge in the end, but Forin was excellent value for money.

[corey_russell]

Condolences to Gate70 and Spiffykeen.

[Vaclavc]

Grond0 wrote...

The wyverns may have got their revenge in the end, but Forin was excellent value for money.

Oh, I re-read your last post and noticed that Forin died in valiant battle against wyverns. Its realy shame. Perhaps, you could try similar character again?

V

[Gate70]

I'm sure I will at some point. Having played a bit further it seems the thing to do is swap to Spiders Bane after dealing with the hamadryad. Forin goes for the nearest enemy after the first target, so gives mages the chance to empty their spellbooks while he pounds the fighters.

[The Fred]

Spider's Bane would also give you a pretty sound set of immunities, as a Cavalier.

Regarding Bassilus, I suspected that the check mightn't be stat-dependant. I think it's just dodgy, because I've seen various behaviour before. I wonder if this might be a nice candidate for a mod fix (maybe just applying a death effect to them directly?).

Hopefully my poor avenger will get a go sometime soon but I've been doing things this weekend and now I have work to catch up on. :-(

[PicklePepperPiper]

Duzak hasn't done much (unless you consider killing the most overrated dark elf hero in the realms as "much").

There was a short trip to the sirine cave area to pick up the CON tome. No troubles there, Duzak's barbarian rage helped against Sil and her band, and the flesh golems were carved up easily. Now to get a nice suit of armor for Duzak.

The party helped Drizzt clear the are of gnolls. Then Duzak didn't wait to talk; he immediately positioned his party around Drizzt so that the elf was locked in, and promptly kicked out the party members (I will do a fair fight against Drizzt some day, just not... today).

Then it was just a matter of equipping Duzak with a bow and quiver of plenty and going away for breakfast (I initially used throwing axes, but out of 80 axes only two critical hits made it through).

A solid hour later, Drizzt was chipped down and Duzak had his glorious set of mithril chainmail.

Some other events:
- Brage's body was returned to the garrison
- The party culled a few ankhegs and helped some evil fishermen out
- Travelled north and picked up cloak of displacement

-PPP

[PicklePepperPiper]

So the plan for Bandit camp didn't work at all.

Duzak was attacked by bandits in Peldvale, and asked to join their group. Tazok was not impressed and he initiated battle - but he soon changed his mind. All was well until I stupidly decided to see what Taugosz had to say. Shar-Teel insulted him and he attacked. Edwin managed to let off a sleep spell just before he was killed by the plethora of arrows that came raining down. Viconia was next to fall, and Montaron was brought dangerously close. Duzak just barely managed to zip across the ground, desperately trying to take the arrows whilst Kagain and Shar-Teel dealt with Taugosz. The party (what was left of it) got there in the end - curiously only the Black Talon bandits had attacked. The Chill were quite happily sitting on the sidelines, enjoying the show. The party braved the tent, but that battle was far more controlled and soon the tent was won. And Monty decided to assassinate Ender Sai, for some reason.

A quick travel south to revive the fallen party members. Sheesh, I really hate Shar-Teel's temper sometimes.
-PPP

[Gate70]

Spider's Bane would also give you a pretty sound set of immunities, as a Cavalier.

Yep, just trying to think what would be a problem. Traps mainly?

Shar Teel and Monty are both mod behaviours. I remember a few more quirks, e.g. Monty and Marl, Xzar and a woodland nymph.

Anyway, time for a little slice of Cavalier sandwich filler; Gaum, LG male elf wild mage.

Str 10
Dex 19
Con 15
Int 18
Wis 11
Cha 10

* quarterstaff.

I expected to be travelling with Gorion, instead I wind up with Imoen. She's impressed by my sleep spell, less so with a resisted blindness and none the wiser about my wild surge.


She's less impressed when they vanish as six hobgoblins hove into view. She almost keeps up with me as we run away. After that I alternate between casting sleep, blindness and running around while Imoen shoots down anything hostile.

Interesting, time for some melee.


Perhaps I have over-prepared here.


Problem solved.

Modifié par Gate70, 30 octobre 2011 - 12:11 .

[Grond0]

PicklePepperPiper wrote...

Then it was just a matter of equipping Duzak with a bow and quiver of plenty and going away for breakfast (I initially used throwing axes, but out of 80 axes only two critical hits made it through).
-PPP

If you don't feel like lugging all that ammo around, remember that Drizzt uses scimitars.  There are plenty of weapons that have a longer reach - just look at what the gnolls left behind for instance.

Modifié par Grond0, 30 octobre 2011 - 12:28 .

[Grond0]

Gate70 wrote...

wild mage.

You do like to make life interesting don't you!

[corey_russell]

Vessen the level 5 cleric continues his adventure...

The party is now starting to clear the east side of the map. We saved a farmer's cow and defeated quite a few ogres in the area. And I learned something new -- in all my 100 runs or so I NEVER have found this cave in the area (close to ogrillion with the +1 two-hand sword).

I found it purely by accident was moving my mouse to target the ogrillion chieftain and noticed the door mouse pointer for a split second. Since I don't know what's in here, I sent Joshua by himelf to investigate - just a single ettercap. Ok no problem send in the party -- the party then tripped the web trap I didnt know about. Fortunately almost the whole party saved and the ettercap fell shortly thereafter. Found some potions as well. The fire resistance potion in particular will be handy in the end-game.


We cleared the Ulcaster School of hostiles, almost completely unremarkable other than a few levels for the party.

"The Poe Incident"
The Kahrk map is another matter. As we were crossing the bridge we saw Poe. His magic spear would be a nice boost to our coffers, but the -10 rep for killing him would't be. I didnt' have the cloak of Algernon, so just had Paja cast her single charm person spell (which has a +3 save) at Poe - and it worked! Nice work Paja! We sent Poe to the undead up by the western entrance to the Firewine Bridge. We had to move the party there too, as the undead for some reason don't attack Poe until we can see them and him. In any case, we got zombies this time and they engaged Poe. The Zombies are pathetic, took them forever to whittle down Poe, and Poe managed to kill a few. Poe fell unconscious, then the Zombies...attacked the party?! Hey you guys finish Poe off! But was not to be. Now we had to take down those zombies and Poe woke up and of course became hostile.

I turned off the AI at this point and Vessen managed to hold Poe. Ok guys let's get to the East side of the bridge. By the time the hold person wears off, Poe should be clueless to our location. We challenged a sword fighter, who got held by Vessen. Auto-attack finished him off. My party moved toward Kahrk's location when I then saw this. Wait a minute what's that body with loot? I looted Melium, there shouldn't be one. Then I saw the combat window - 275 exp and -10 reputation! Argh! Apparently as we were fighting Melium, Poe must have found us and the party of course killed him with their auto-attack.

Well fortunately we were at 20 rep, so Joshua isn't a fallen paladin yet. But means we probably won't be able to buy everything we want with our lower rep. Oh well.

Guess we'll have to take out our aggression on Kahrk. We had 10 skeletons floating around and Joshua engaged Kahrk in hand-to-hand. Vessen managed to dispel Kahrk's defenses, Paja did 2x call lightning, and the party continued their ranged attacks. Vessen cast bless on the skeletons and then Kahrk fell shortly thereafter.

We still had plenty of looting room so we headed to Gullyking. We rested and approached Molkar and his assassins. We did exactly same thing to him as the Amazons - 2x web, 2x call lightning, and 2x silence and then ranged fire. Just as then, this was just as devastating.

We still had looting room, so we entered Firewine Ruins via a halfling's house. The Ogre Mage was killed quickly, then Joshua glugged a potion of absobtion and strength potion and charged. Lendarn killed himself, then the party assisted with mop up.

Now we are finally  full inventory and we head to FAI to sell and get some dexterity potions. We intend to get to Ulgoth's Beard, get the greenstone amulet (Sirine hunting) and attempt to get Dushai's ring via pick-pocket.

Modifié par corey_russell, 30 octobre 2011 - 01:28 .