16402 réponses à ce sujet

[The Fred]

RE the druid quest: Hopefully things will work out, though I think I may have put SCS after the NPC project. However I've never done this quest before so I'm not too worried if I can't continue. It'd be a shame to miss out on Seniyad's XP though...

RE daggers: Yes, sometime you might want/need a dagger over a two-handed sword, I'm just saying that generally something like Free Action is far more powerful than a little extra damage (and Spider's Bane is one of the most damaging weapons anyway), especially since it works with the Boots of Speed (IIRC the ring doesn't). Obviously the Dagger of Venom is the exception since its poison is incredibly powerful against casters in particular.

Meanwhile, Arzamraphel did a little more travelling, but the only two things of any note were killing two winter wolves, and saving Jared from a bear.

[Alesia_BH]

The Fred wrote...
Yes, sometime you might want/need a dagger over a two-handed sword, I'm just saying that generally something like Free Action is far more powerful than a little extra damage (and Spider's Bane is one of the most damaging weapons anyway), especially since it works with the Boots of Speed (IIRC the ring doesn't).

Understood. And I fully agree that immunities are a critical consideration when it comes to weapons.

Often in weapons discussions, people focus exclusively on damage per round. I tend to find that damage per round is just one of many thing to take into consideration and that it is usually fairly low on the priority list actually. It can become a prime consideration against certain enemies, but not all to be sure.

I'm not inclined to say speed is more important or immunities or more important. rather, I'd say that they are all things that need to be taken into consideration when you decide where you are going to build your comparative advantage in a given battle.


With regards to Spider Bane in particular, my characters often use it for the Free Action and Poison immunity- they tend not to actually fight with it though. Again we quickly reach a matter of playing style here- many would find all the weapon/item swapping my characters tend to do either cheesy or unenjoyable.
Anyhoo. There are lots of workable avenues to be sure. I have no doubt that your choices work for you. 

I also consider speed to be more important than damage.

Yeah. It seems a lot of the solo No Reloaders come to that way of looking at it. I'm guessing you'd agree that context matters though. For example, against enemy with a high regen rate, or when fighting sizeable groups in close quarters, the low AC + high damage approach is often a reasonable move. If your enemies have lousy THACOs, it can also be the more convenient avenue. That's why I tend to give my characters a mobility/speed/reach setup and also a damage/APR/resistance/low AC one. They then switch between them in diferent tactical environments or even just when the fancy strikes.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:26 .

[The Fred]

If you are going to be using hit-and-run tactics, having a high speed factor and/or reach is definitely better, since you can be away again before they can hit you. However, in any toe-to-toe fight, damage per round is the most important thing (as far as how effective your weapon is goes).

The special effects offered by the Dagger of Venom, Spider's Bane and Bala's Axe (and Xan's Moonblade) are however potentially more important than raw damage. I find that Spider's Bane is particularly useful in party play, because you can have Webs, Greases and BG2 Entangles thrown at enemies who are balled around a tank, who can also hit them without worrying about the areas of effect. Obviously for solo play this will likely be less of a consideration since you'd have to be a Fighter/Mage or something to be facing such a situation.

I would say that unless you're looking for something specific (such as speed factor and/or reach) you probably want (ideally) to be using either one of those weapons, a ranged weapon, or whatever the most damaging weapon is for your restrictions (including whether you have a shield, and whether you want +damage vs a certain type of foe).

[Alesia_BH]

Makes sense. And I concur that damage per round becomes more significant in the toe to toe context.

I'd be reluctant to say it's "the" most important thing even in toe-to-toe combat because -as you noted- immunities, on hit effects and such can be more valuable than a little extra damage. Context matters.

In general, it's usually wiser to understand how things work thoroughly and then make the right choice in context then it is to think in terms of supervenient properties (ie- "best", "ideal", etc). Weapons in BG are no different in that way. 

Anyhoo. I do think we are on the same page ultimately. Best of luck!

Cheers,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 novembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[The Fred]

Oh, of course. I only meant by it being the most important thing in terms of the weapon - as a weapon - specifically. Obviously Spider's Bane and the others are exceptions in that they provide other benefits, but in BG1 these sorts of weapons are rather rare.

[Gate70]

Vozz, CG half orc male swashbuckler.

I purchase a cloak of displacement and a greenstone amulet before heading into Nashkel mine. I use stealth to reach a half-orc cleric called Mulahey and hit him hard. He runs off to cast so I slip back into the shadows.


My second strike scares him witless but the odds have just altered.


My longsword quickly deals with five kobolds and I return to the shadows. Mulahey has run outside so I follow and attack. I miss, and he starts casting. I try to use the amulet only to realise my aura is tarnished. As I save I decide to swing again.


Not activating the amulet before my second and third attacks was risky, didn't realise the aura affected it. If my fourth attack had failed I'd have been running to try and gap the aura.

Modifié par Gate70, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[Alesia_BH]

The Fred wrote...

Oh, of course. I only meant by it being the most important thing in terms of the weapon - as a weapon - specifically. Obviously Spider's Bane and the others are exceptions in that they provide other benefits, but in BG1 these sorts of weapons are rather rare.

Yeah. I have little doubt that we're seeing it the same way ultimately. 

Again, best of luck!

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 novembre 2011 - 08:49 .

[After5CST]

Alesia_BH wrote...

In general, it's usually wiser to understand how things work thoroughly and then make the right choice in context....

Thanks to all for the many replies.  Since daggers are piercing weapons and there are several piercing-immune enemies in BG1, I need to pick an off-hand weapon proficiency to start putting points in.  Flails (for the off chance I make it to SoA) comes to mind, as does hammers (+2 guy is nice).  Any suggestions?

[Alesia_BH]

I can't really advise on that I'm afraid. I typically give my characters three setups: 1) speed, reach, mobility (usually quarterstaves); 2) sword and shield (long swords in Alessandra's case); 3) dual-wield (often involving flails due to The Defender and either Short Swords or Scimtars for Belm or Kundane). They then switch between them depending on the situation. The dual wield setup has always been the last one layered in.

From what I've read, you seem to be planning a committed dual-wielder. That's something I've never done and I haven't thought through the details of how I'd want to arrange that if I did. I'm sure some of the dual-wielding fans out their can offer some suggestions.

The only advise I'm inclined to offer is that for every minute you spend thinking about your proficiencies, spend 20 thinking about your defensive strategy and battle plans. I'd be perfectly content to go through BG1 with zero proficiencies, my Fists, and that Quarterstaff you get at character birth. But without having my defenses ironned out, I'm pretty sure I could get myself killed wielding BGII weapons with maxed out proficiency slots...

Good luck!

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 novembre 2011 - 08:40 .

[ussnorway]

After5CST wrote...

Alesia_BH wrote...

In general, it's usually wiser to understand how things work thoroughly and then make the right choice in context....

Thanks to all for the many replies.  Since daggers are piercing weapons and there are several piercing-immune enemies in BG1, I need to pick an off-hand weapon proficiency to start putting points in.  Flails (for the off chance I make it to SoA) comes to mind, as does hammers (+2 guy is nice).  Any suggestions?

I’d take the humble club… yes I know it has a bit of a bad rep but you only want an off hand weapon so consider this;

Pros; They are cheap, do a comparable (but different type of) damage to daggers, don’t break & if you have npc Jaheira then the possibility of a root becomes available.

Cons; While there are some nice clubs in bg2 (especially for fighting undead) none of them are truly epic weapons.

[The Fred]

Yeah, lack of magical clubs is an issue. I imagine you are using BG2-style proficiencies? Otherwise you could just use a Short Sword, or take Blunt Weapon proficiency. I think actually Long Swords might be better, since you could take something like Varscona which has a pretty neat damage output (and is easy to get, at least in the unmodded game).

[ussnorway]

PUKUD8;

@The Fred; So dagger in the main hand & longsword in the off hand?... Any way good luck After5CST, my fingers are crossed for you.

Week 8; It’s been a long week of wandering & if I never set foot in a woods again it will be too soon. I let my ferret, Snatch take centre stage (& everything else) against Centeol in order to draw away her wardens… This gave me an easy way to loot the otherwise spider infested cave. On the next map I stood in a sweet spot to do a bit of wyvern hunting i.e. the large ones couldn’t reach me.



I used the usual tactics against the mine defenders i.e. ‘Web’, ‘Fear’ then bring the rain. With Drasus, Rezdan, Genthore, Kysus & Natasha dispatched I freed the slaves/ Yeslick then walked back outside to reset my spell book for the main event… I skipped the mage Hareishan because she can sometimes be a pain for solo spell slingers. Note that Snatch deserves a special mention for selflessly carrying all the excess loot around.



First, I used my cloak to charm the nameless guard in order to start the battle & then just hid in the shadows whilst Davaeorn ranted… tip; SCS assumes you will stay in the first room for this fight. After his initial bout was over I charmed Stephan into diverting attention whilst I whittled away at the horrors with frost shots… in the end it came down to tête-à-tête  but I got up because I still had my Ring of Energy. With the messiness over with all that remained was to drink a Violet Potion (sets str to 25 for a day) then flood the mines and collect the loot… speaking of loot, I sold it all to purchase robe of the neutral archmagi, recharged my necklace of missiles from Thalantyr & then went burk’O (scroll) shopping at the Sorcerous Sundries.

[Alesia_BH]

The Fred wrote...
I think actually Long Swords might be better, since you could take something like Varscona which has a pretty neat damage output (and is easy to get, at least in the unmodded game).

I'll add that there are some nice immunity conferring/special effect Long Swords in BG2. That's primarily why Alessandra picked Long Swords for her Shield setup (Dragon Slayer + Harmony in particular). Getting Varscona in BG1 was a nice bonus.

I'll also note that if you are undecided, there is something to be said for picking a proficiency you absolutely know you'll want further down the road even if it isn't great in the near term. 
Anyhoo. Good luck choosing once again! It's how you use it that matters most though. 

@The Fred; So dagger in the main hand & longsword in the off hand?

That does sound goofy from a style/real world perspective to be sure. I usually try to have my short weapon in the off-hand and avoid mixing flails and swords. I'm unsually fussy about appearances though when I equip my characters... 

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 novembre 2011 - 05:06 .

[The Fred]

That is pretty goofy, but less goofy if the dagger is the Dagger of Venom. You would imagine just taking a second dagger (e.g. Longtooth) to be more realistic, though (and if you can stack up points in Daggers, good in-game too, but not if you're limited to one point anyway).

[Vaclavc]

ussnorway wrote...
With the messiness over with all that remained was to drink a Violet Potion (sets str to 25 for a day) then flood the mines and collect the loot… speaking of loot, I sold it all to purchase robe of the neutral archmagi, recharged my necklace of missiles from Thalantyr & then went burk’O (scroll) shopping at the Sorcerous Sundries.

I congratulate to my colleague Diviner to his progress



Adventures of half-elven Diviner Zulekyr (level 9, 40 hp):
Upon flooding Cloakwood mine, Zulekyr headed to Baldur’s Gate. In Sorcerous Sundries, he added several important spells to his repertoire. Aside from various minor sidequests, he completed Poison quest, helped Aldeth, defeated mage Ragefast and took Nymph to Ramazith.


Then, he started to work for Scar and Eltan and infiltrated Iron Throne on their behalf. On the top floor, he defeated Sarevok’s mercenaries.


Zulekyr then headed to Candlekeep. He looted all tombs in the underground, defeated false Elminster and invisible escaped to the surface.
Back in Baldur‘s Gate, he saved duke Eltan, killed Cythandria, Slythe and Krystin and headed to ducal palace. When Doppelgangers emerged, Zulekyr tried to dispel their buffs, but to no avail. Dispel magic hit them, but their buffs persisted. In my previous solo wizard run with Morveduin, I also couldn‘t dispel their buffs, strange.
Nevertheless, while doppelgangers shredded poor duchess to pieces, Zulekyr buffed himself with Mirror Image, Haste, Blur and Shield and entered the fray. Luckily, he managed to kill all the Doppelgangers (mostly using Magic Missiles) before they could kill duke Belt.

Zulekyr currently works for Mendas from Ulgoth’s Beard.
V

[Serg BlackStrider]

Splendid progress, V! Impressive!

[Gate70]

Nice.

Vozz sneaked out of Nashkel mine, past two slimes. He returned Josephs ring then used the greenstone amulet while Nimbul mirror imaged.

Nimbul cast fear next and Vozz injured him. Then Nimbul started casting magic missiles. Vozz alternated between glugging potions of healing and attacking with his longsword. He managed to scare Nimbul after the third volley, glugged another potion but Nimbul recovered and fired more missiles. Vozz glugged a fourth potion but Nimbul added another round of magic missiles and Vozz staggered backwards, falling to the ground.

Just couldn't glug quickly enough to counter the missiles, possibly messed up by fighting back instead of glugging after each spell and attacking once the spells were finished.

[Easymask]

Greetings once again dear friends!

T'has been a long time since I posted last, but fear not - I have returned!

Having led many a solo character to his death in SCS, some making it further than the others - I have decided to brave this monsterous addition to the classic game with a party of friends from Candlekeep! I truly hate having more than 4 characters to control, as I detest the amount of micro management required(not a lot, but enough to make me lose interest fast) for 6 characters.

I'd like you all to meet the Lavender Shades!


They consist of Verenor, whom has trained to become a Stalker & is the leader of the band.
Boreas is a Dwarf Berserker, known for his skill with the Hammer and Axe(and a strength score of 18/00 no less!)
Aerileth is the most treasure hungry person in the group, this elven Bounty Hunter will crawl into the deepest of dungeons if there is gold to be made or magical artifacts to be found.
And last, but not least; Nidon - a young Elven Diviner whom trained a bit with Gorion as he grew up in Candlekeep with the others. The party's alignements vary from Lawful to Chaotic Good, so perhaps the Sword Coast will be a safer place once they head outside Candlekeep.

Wish them luck everyone!

Modifié par Easymask, 19 novembre 2011 - 09:02 .

[The Fred]

What is it with diviners at the moment?

Anyway, the travels of Arzamraphel, Avenger, have continued.

Arzamraphel and co. more or less cleared the Gnoll Stronghold. The Tome seems to have been Randomised, and I decided not to pick up Dynaheir - at least not yet. Experimentation with a quicksave told me she would be a L7 Invoker, probably with more health than Imoen. However, I'm dubious about her low Dex. I'm tempted to take the "full cannon party", but with Imoen as a Sorcerer I think I'm going to need to take on someone like Safana, at least as a temp, before too long (was thinking of dualing her from Swash to Mage, but I really need someone to sort the traps in the Mines and eventually Durlag's Tower etc).

Anyway, I decided to have another bash at the Cloakwood. Unfortunately, the ettercap and huge spider from last time were joined by two phase spiders - this is the thing that annoys me about SCS' Harder Spiders, and I rapidly fled. I altered a few spells and rested up (an ettercap ambush had left me in a less than ideal condition) and tried again. After another ettercap ambush I headed back to the tasloi area and rested again. This time, I made it to the spider area and only one phase spider popped up - which I was prepared for. Glitterdust and Horror were used very effectively here, and before long things were under control.

Summoned skeletons helped me deal with the other ettercaps, then it was on to the next area. I hope to come back and get Spider's Bane, but not just yet.

I should meantion that our exploits here gained Imoen her 7th level. Her spell picks were Chromatic Orb (because I like to have a fast-to-cast, potentially disabling spell), Melf's Acid Arrow (for damage and anti-caster) and Melf's Minute Meteors (never really used it - was tempted by Haste, but I thought Khalid would be better off taking it since one per encounter is probably enough).

We parleyed with Laskal, but killed the rest of the druids including Amarande. A large number of Cave Bears decided to assail us in this area as well, but we dealt with them and pushed on to the wyvern area.

For some reason I seem to be suffering a lot of lag, particularly in these past few areas. Hopefully it will clear up but at one point it got so bad that it's the main reason I'm taking a break now. I will try and get through the next area later, though I don't plan on doing the outside-the-Cloakwood-mines battle just yet (after last time, I'm somewhat wary of it, though I think my odds are better this time judging by the way the Bandit Camp went).

[Easymask]

Sounds like you're doing well The Fred!

Well, Diviner was the only Specialization I found fitting to the group's needs. Or well, perhaps my needs. I like the bonuses specialization gives, but I thought I'd leave out the Wild Mage for this run.

I'm having some lag as well, it seems that the monster spawns are doing it for my part. I do not know how to remedy it though. Off topic, I am also experiencing some errors with spell graphics, mainly Magic Missiles. Anyone know how to fix that?

[Vaclavc]

Sadly, Zulekyr died fighting two Loup Garous back in Ulgoth's Beard, after he returned victorious from Werewolf Island. They managed to block my way and one of them killed me before I drank Potion of Invisibility.
This was also the very first hit Zulekyr suffered in whole run - wizard must never be hit and Zulekyr paid the price.
Final fight in Ulgoth's Beard also seems to be critical spot for my wizard runs - this is exactly where my previous attempt with Morveduin ended.
V

[Grond0]

Hard luck V. but another noble effort!

[Gate70]

Demivel, NG male elf F/M/T & pseudo dragon familiar.




I quickly deal with my chores, moving on to help Marl, Firebead, Noober, Oublek, Captain Brage and Joia.

Currently fighter 1 / thief 2 / mage 1

[The Fred]

Easymask wrote...
Sounds like you're doing well The Fred!

The Mines are the futhest I've gotten with TuTu and SCS and I've only gotten further with a non-TuTu game which I think was helped along by the Dark Horizons loot (never died on that one, but got bored; found most stuff in Ch 5 too easy but didn't want to start Ch 6). Last time I was playing a Beastmaster/Cleric with a party of four and got killed by the party outside. Since this team handled the Bandit Camp a lot better than they did, I feel good about their prospects of succeeding where the others failed, but I don't want to take any chances.

[ussnorway]

I picked Diviner for rp reasons & partly because they have a bad rep... go the underdogs!

p.s.
Good luck Gate70... does he use a longbow?