16402 réponses à ce sujet

[Grond0]

The behaviour when you disappear and they home in on your last location seems OK to me - and even when they follow you for a bit. There is the danger of being surrounded, but that's not too high if you're careful. However, the ability to home in on you even when you arrive in another part of the area does seem unreasonable and, to me at least, is just an irritation.

[Alesia_BH]

polytope wrote...

My main objection to the AI chasing invisible/sanctuaried characters is that they can track you well enough to surround you, but won't actually attack - you'd think that if they could pinpoint your location to within a few feet, they'd take a few suspicious swings even if they couldn't see you...

Yeah. The engine makes that unworkable I would imagine. When they follow, that's basically what I imagine though: they know I'm around, they're trying to get on top of me and attack perhaps, but they're being a bit ginger about it since they know I might stick a blade in their gut at any moment.

And of course they can find you even if you're invisible and silenced, or have a high move silently score, which they should not. 

Understood. And that makes sense. Of course, they could be tracking footprints, scents, or something of that ilk naturally. It doesn't seem patently absurd to me. But as mentioned, I think all the views I've heard make sense.

Anyhoo. I do think you've done a wonderful service by letting everyone choose. Thanks and good work Polytop!

Best,

A.

Btw. I'm curious: would the scripting language allow the illusionary/non-illusionary distinction to be used here such that they might follow if you were Invisible but not if you were using non-illusionary stealth?

[Alesia_BH]

Opps!

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 21 novembre 2011 - 12:42 .

[Easymask]

After the Lavender Shades managed to get themselves killed in a basilisk accident(I was 100% sure I had cleared out the entire basilisk population, but had forgot the two up north by Shar-Teel - thus resulting in a rather swift end for poor Verenor.

For my next character, I had some help from some of the wonderful people here in the community; that helped me make a personal item for my next character. I picked up Loken II after the Lavender Shades died, but he was killed by Rayic Gethras as stated in the other thread.

I decided I still wanted to get through Baldurs Gate with a Thiefish character, so I decided to make a Fighter/Thief this time around.

His name is Verenor, and these are his current stats:



and inventory:



He's made his way past the mines, Gnoll Stronghold, Basilisks, Sirines & Assassins - and is now located at the Bandit Camp. That fight was much harder than I remembered(seeing as this is SCS), especially when everyone comes to say hello. Luckily my ring of invisibility saved me(as it did when I got ambushed by Molkar at Ulgoth's Beard)!



Afterwards, I managed to reposition myself and put on some better anti-missiles equipment, taking the bandits down with wand of Paralyzation & the Amulet of Explosions. Just as I rested back up and was about to head into the tent, something quite scary showed up:



(This is where I just paused the game, and I must say - I'm not really sure what to do. I didn't know SCS just spawned assassins on you, that sure is special! I'll probably use my 3rd Invis ring charge - as I don't have anything to protect me from two Hold spells.)

Edit: Oh! Almost forgot to mention!
His personal item is a suit of Studded Leather Armor called "Shadowhide Armor". It's a gift from Gorion(though I didn't pick it up untill I bought the Shadow Armor), that gives +20% Hide in Shadows, +3 AC & Charm Immunity(I never use the Greenstone Amulet, so I find this to be an acceptable trade).

Modifié par Easymask, 21 novembre 2011 - 04:11 .

[Grond0]

Easymask wrote...
Just as I rested back up and was about to head into the tent, something quite scary showed up:

From where you are now you could easily run north to the edge of the map and stealth.  Lamalha and her crew will probably follow you, but you could pick one off with a backstab.  Beware the 2 invisible thieves - if you let both of them backstab you then you could be in trouble.  If you have a way to persuade them to attack something else, e.g. through use of Algernon's Cloak, that's helpful.

[ussnorway]

PUKUD10;

@Alesia_BH; As far as the game is concerned they can see you or they can’t… there is no difference as far as I’m aware (there are modifiers of course) between hide in shadows, invisible or sanctuary when it comes to what spot skill can detect you however of course the detectpc script is in effect GOD MODE.

@Easymask; Welcome back aboard!

Week 12; Since I’m already capped there was little point to mucking around before saying hi to my dear brother & his old girl friend was happy to point out the new GF to me… isn’t love grand! A single cloud convinced her to hand over my bros diary and 5 monster summon charges overwhelmed his ambush of the dukes. I resorted my spell book over a cup of coffee and developed a strategy designed to overwhelm my brothers’ defences quickly.



Step 1; Shield, protection from fire, reflect image and stone skin covered my self buffs then ½ dozen monster shots to keep him distracted. Ok, now I cast farsight so I could target him and dropped 3 clouds (1 from scroll) to hopefully slow down his cavalry plus get his attention before retreating behind my screen of adds… SCS works in my favour here and I was pretty confident.
 


Step 2; With my preplaced breathing space now established all I had to do was adjust the odds a bit so; ‘Remove Magic’ followed up with ‘Greater Malison’ softens him up before finishing with my wand of polymorph… Somehow he managed to make one save but the second shot had his number on it. I’m thinking of trying out this BG2 build unless any one can recommend a better one… since PUK is destined to catch up to his cherished Imoen soon the next adventure will be of a party orientation.

[After5CST]

Alesia_BH wrote...

The only advise I'm inclined to offer is that for every minute you spend thinking about your proficiencies, spend 20 thinking about your defensive strategy and battle plans.

I'll start working on that.   In general, I'm finding that where I die is usually when I encounter something new or something I didn't remember from years ago, so each game I'm proceeding a little farther.

SCS will have to wait until at least I finish on "normal" AI scripts.

As far as weapon proficiencies, I ended up stumbling into a Flail +1 in the Xvart village cave at the same time I reached third level, so I felt it made sense (from an RP perspective) to take the proficiency in the new magic weapon I just acquired.

Granted, dagger in the main hand and flail in the off hand doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but after some thought it's useable.  "main" vs. "off" hand really means (for Toil) that the flail is used to distraact enemies while he hopefully can close enough ground to land a stab in from the less-dangerous-looking dagger.  I'm not enough of a medieval melee weapons expert to know if such a concept is even feasible, but it seems like a lot of the melee combat in the IE requires somewhat of a leap of faith.

Toil has worked his way W from Nashkel to the Gnoll fortress and rescued Dynaheir.  I was hoping (after picking her up) to add Edwin to the party, but apparently you can't add him after you have added her -- he won't talk to me.  I'm now deciding if I want to keep her or not.

I'm also playing with the idea of writing some simple scripts to test A's "bash & dash" quarterstaff strategy she detailed in earlier posts, just to see if it's scriptable.  If it is, I'm thinking that if the wolves' bite attacks are quick attacks, a scripted version of that could make a wolf pack a troublesome encounter for a low-level party.  It would seem to be consistent with how a wolf pack would hunt, where the wolves would swarm, make a quick attack, and then fade away before their prey could respond.  It would wreak havoc against spellcasters (at least ones without sleep) and guys with slow melee weapons.

[The Fred]

Grond0 wrote...

The Fred wrote...
we returned to the Cloakwood where we dealt with whatever-his-name-was outside the treehouse. This actually wasn't too hard, but he seemed somehow to get a triple Summon Insects off (maybe it was the 4th-level version of the spell? I think I read Summon Insects, but anyway).

Sounds like the 5th level insect plague - a great spell to use against casters.

I really thought I'd read "Summon Insects", but I think it must have been Insect Plague. I have to say that as one of the few times I've been on the receiving end of it, it's pretty nasty. I have used both liberally in BG2.

Grond0 wrote...
I think [The Secret of Bone Hill] difficulty is quite well balanced - it scales depending on your level, so you should be able to take it on when you want.

That sounds cool. Do you think I should pick up a thief first, though?

[Grond0]

It's a long time since I did it, but I don't remember huge numbers of traps. There was a maze trap on one chest that ended a solo run, but that wouldn't be a problem in a party.

[The Fred]

I've decided to play it safe and have picked up Safana. She's a Swashbuckler, and I had planned to dual her to mage at L5, but she needs the Intelligence tome for that. I also don't think it'd really be legal for me to pick her up already with mage levels if she needed the tome from me to get them in the first place, so instead I've just levelled her to L8. This gives her 100 in Find Traps and Open Locks, and 35 in Detect Illusions; don't know how useful that will be. I also moved her points into Long Swords, and gave her another in each of Single Weapon Style and Bow. With her Swashbuckler AC bonus, she should be quite hardy in combat anyway, and a buckler would only add a -1 bonus vs non-missile attacks. I'm not so keen on having her eating up our XP, but I can always dump her again after the mines and pick her up again for Ch 6.

[Easymask]

Rushing through the end game, hiding through most of the encounters - as well as killing most of the endgame personell with stealth, finally: Sarevok is dead!



I dared not gamble here, so I fired one dispelling arrow on sarevok, then three backstabs(+ tons of fireballs that eventually killed Sarevok! He actually attacked Angelo for a while, very strange!) was enough to put him down. I used my last three potions of invisibility and my very last charge on the Invisibility ring to take him down(I missed the last backstab, so Angelo or Semaj actually got the killing blow!)

Next time I should probably try enabling the greater doppelgangers, but they scare me just as they are. Belt really came close to dying in the fight in the castle, but luckily I was able to "shield" him off with my character long enough.

See you lot in Amn!

[After5CST]

Congrats, Easymask!

[Easymask]

Thank you After5CST!

This will probably be my very last attempt at soloing a thief and or fighter/thief for a while. I have wanted to explore Durlog's Tower for quite some time, but I just can't find the courage to do so. Without berserk this time around, I didn't go to the werewolf island either - as I'm afraid it would quickly end my journey. I came close to dying so many times as well, and I burned through most of my potions and scrolls very fast!

If Verenor doesn't make it all the way through, I'll probably make a 2-4 man team with the mission to clear everything there is to do in BG1+ToSC before heading to Amn.

[Vaclavc]

Congrats, ussnorway and Easymask!  I am most impressed by your respective runs.
V

[Grond0]

Slider the fighter/thief is still going, though had one close shave.
- there were plenty of easy XP on offer in the ankheg area.  Slider kept the beasts at a distance so they needed a critical - only two managed it.  Gerde did manage to steal one lot of XP.
- with reputation at 20 Slider headed up to Ulgoth's Beard to empty the shop there of the good stuff.  Also got hold of a nice ring with the help of a friend.
- back south to pick up a tome at Durlag's Tower.  Had a fair fight with the first battle horror, though the second got backstabbed.
- only problem with the run so far came when in the basilisk area.  Slider had used green scroll for protection and cleared the beasts in the south.  However, when exploring to the north he accidentally travelled out of the area - this not only meant his protection had expired, but also exposed him to a surprise attack from an ambushing basilisk.  Fortunately he saved.
- without protection slider turned to Korax.  He took on the basilisks, while Slider dealt with Mutamin.  Korax then got some new temporary friends to give him a helping hand to finish off the basilisks.
- Korax lasted long enough to deal with 2 of the party in the area.  The others were dealt with in a more traditional thief fashion, one, two.
- Slider's final level came courtesy of using his thieving skills.

He's now at fighter 7 / thief 8 - here are his stats.  His thief skills were developed in the order open locks, then find traps, then stealth. Next up will be his assault on the bandit camp.

[BBMorti]

*takes hat off for ussnorway and Easymask* Super good job guys

Will keep an eye out for you in amn!

[Vaclavc]

Grond0 wrote...
only problem with the run so far came when in the basilisk area.  Slider had used green scroll for protection and cleared the beasts in the south.  However, when exploring to the north he accidentally travelled out of the area - this not only meant his protection had expired, but also exposed him to a surprise attack from an ambushing basilisk.  Fortunately he saved.

When traveling to or from this area (or nearby areas), I always carry Potions of Mirrored eyes in quickslot. Basilisk ambushes occur quite often in this part of world map. Anyway, good work.



Short update on human Necromancer Thazmudyn:
In the endless hunt for power (i.e. XP), Thazmudyn visited area populated with basilisks. He killed number of them, including their master Mutamin (one pack of summoned monsters and Resist Fear came handy in this fight).



Next, Thazmudyn traveled to the area west of Firewine Bridge. There, he defeated Arghain and his Half-Ogre bandits, saved Hulrik’s cow and killed some Ogres on behalf of dwarven warrior Sarhedra.Thazmudyn carefully avoided Hobgoblin Elites who roam this area.
North of Lighthouse area, he killed numerous Ogres, Ogre Berserkers, Half Ogres and Ogrillons and found lost ring belonging to Mad Arcand.
He is currently level 6 Necromancer with 23 hp.
V

[Alesia_BH]

ussnorway wrote...
@Alesia_BH; As far as the game is concerned they can see you or they can’t… there is no difference as far as I’m aware (there are modifiers of course) between hide in shadows, invisible or sanctuary when it comes to what spot skill can detect you

Understood. The engine does distinquish between Illusionary and Non-Illusionary Invisibility for divination dispel purposes as we all know. What I'm wondering is whether the scripting language can make use of that for other purposes such as the follow script.

I'm asking because I'd like to see options at install along these lines:

1) Enemies perceive (through sound, scent, or other cues) and follow invisible characters.
2) Enemies perceive and follow characters under illusionary invisibility, but not non-illusionary (Stealth)
3) Enemies never perceive and follow invisible characters.

I'd personally go with 1 because it tends to complicate things for my backstabbers, but it would be nice for others if there could be a middle ground option.

Of course the detectpc script is in effect GOD MODE.

Again, there is a difference in taste here. Personally, I'd like to see more Detect PC in scripts. I'd quite like to be able to allow Ketta and a few others to Detect PC (so long as they wouldn't make fools of themselves by repeatedly attacking an invulnerable PC like the old Tactics Dragons did). 

Anyhoo. Best of luck in Amn!

[ussnorway]

Alesia_BH wrote...

ussnorway wrote...
@Alesia_BH; As far as the game is concerned they can see you or they can’t… there is no difference as far as I’m aware (there are modifiers of course) between hide in shadows, invisible or sanctuary when it comes to what spot skill can detect you

Understood. The engine does distinquish between Illusionary and Non-Illusionary Invisibility for divination dispel purposes as we all know. What I'm wondering is whether the scripting language can make use of that for other purposes such as the follow script.

I'm asking because I'd like to see options at install along these lines:

1) Enemies perceive (through sound, scent, or other cues) and follow invisible characters.
2) Enemies perceive and follow characters under illusionary invisibility, but not non-illusionary (Stealth)
3) Enemies never perceive and follow invisible characters.

I'd personally go with 1 because it tends to complicate things for my backstabbers, but it would be nice for others if there could be a middle ground option.

Of course the detectpc script is in effect GOD MODE.

Again, there is a difference in taste here. Personally, I'd like to see more Detect PC in scripts. I'd quite like to be able to allow Ketta and a few others to Detect PC (so long as they wouldn't make fools of themselves by repeatedly attacking an invulnerable PC like the old Tactics Dragons did). 

Anyhoo. Best of luck in Amn!

you could have a scripted trap that uses "Remove Spell" to break invis... can't see how you would balence that... why pick on invis targets but leave stealth alone?

I’d also like to see something like that as well then at least if you pick #1 & lose your game… you have made an informed choice and not been hijacked by cheating scripts… But I’d have option two as;

“I’m telling you I sore something Move!”  One member of the group has an item that gives him ‘True Sight’ on a permanent basis… perhaps he pinched it from a dead paladin and Ajantis needs to get it back? At least that way he could legally detect and attack you.
Yes the pc could just kill that guy and walk past but that’s at least a legitimate tactic.
 
p.s.  I can see your point, that invis needs to be cut back a bit.

[polytope]

Alesia_BH wrote...

Understood. The engine does distinquish between Illusionary and Non-Illusionary Invisibility for divination dispel purposes as we all know. What I'm wondering is whether the scripting language can make use of that for other purposes such as the follow script.

The invisibility state is set equally by stealth and spell, so can't be differentiated by AI scripts (which need to check for a stat or a state or something like that, rather than whether or not the effect is dispellable or originating from a specific spell school - as opcodes do). The invisibility spell (and potion, and ring etc.) would need to be re-labelled to be identifiable, as detectable spells mod already does with quite a few other effects.

Improved Invisibility sets STATE_IMPROVEDINVISIBILITY, Sanctuary sets stat SANCTUARY to 1 and Mislead sets stat PUPPETTYPE to 1, so these variants can all currently be detected by scripts.

[Easymask]

Well then, after yet another failed attempt at getting through Amn(very early again!) - I have created a four man team that I feel quite confident about:



The party consists of Verenor II, party leader & Ranger(Short Bows) extraordinaire.


Borgael the Dwarf Barbarian! (Warhammers, Axes and Shields)


Kazim the Gnome Thief/Illusionist! (Crossbows & Short Swords)


& last but not least; Miyuki(snow) the Kenzai from Kara-Tur! (Quarter Staffs & Scimitars)


Miyuki will eventually be dual-classed into a Mage, perhaps in BG at level 7, or around 10ish in Amn!

Good luck to you all out there!

Modifié par Easymask, 22 novembre 2011 - 04:06 .

[After5CST]

Nice character portraits, EasyMask.

Brief update on Toil ( H M Berserker 4 IIRC ):

Cleared out Nashkel town and Carnival map. Cleared out Drizzt map. Drizzt wouldn't talk to the party, which now consists of Toil, Xzar, Montaron, Viconia, and Dynaheir. Cleared out exterior of Nashkel Mines.

Nothing exciting happened, really. I was actually watching some football games on TV while playing, but my inattention to the combat never really made a difference (although I did use my first berserk ability against a ghoul/ghast combination at the Nashkel map).

I don't expect any trouble from the mines until Mulahey, and probably not then. The berserker thus far has been more than capable against pretty much everyone, with the exception that he can't really go toe-to-toe against Ogre Berserkers.

Side comment: the Cleric Command spell is incredibly powerful. I had no idea.

[Grond0]

Slider is almost into the end game now - just about to investigate the Iron Throne - and shouldn't take much longer.

Progress to that point included:
- a back-crunch for Tranzig.
- running away when Lamalha showed up (could probably have taken them out easily, but no benefit to doing so).
- investigating the bandit camp using stealth.
- a phase spider attempting an ambush found the tables turned!
- Drasus was persuaded to switch sides (to his cost).
- Daveorn's battle horrors were back-crunched, leaving Daveorn himself helpless.
- Ramazith protects his back, so he got a potion of firebreath instead of a back-crunch.
- Jalantha got the more traditional thief treatment.
- Rather than use up any resources Slider stayed near the stairs when confronting Marek and shot him up.

[corey_russell]

This might be a bit late, but Grats Easy Mask on defeating Sarevok solo. Good luck in your next run. Looking good there Grond0 -- note that I also have a fighter/thief, but he took shortcut and started in Amn without dealing with Sarevok. : )

[Easymask]

I hope Lady Luck watches over your Fighter/Thief Corey_russel, for her absence ended Verenor's travels just after he made it to Amn.

Oh well, I'll be sure to brave the trilogy with a solo'er in due time, right now I'll play this four man team, and hopefully clear all the content I want to with them!