16407 réponses à ce sujet

[Alesia_BH]

I'm sorry to hear about your character wise. 

Grimwald the Wise wrote...

I personally would rather not know when to expect an ambush. it seems a lot more realistic. True you fail a lot more times, but in my opinion, winning is not everything. I play for fun, and an unexpected ambush adds to the fun.

I respect that. I think all of us here now try to strike a balance between foreknowledge and role-playing. There are times when I've wished I didn't know what I do.

To partially bridge the gap between my foreknowledge and what my characters could know in the game world, I tend to give them high intelligences and conceptualize them as voracious readers. An avid reader who grew up in a library and also frequently spoke with visitors could potentially know a great deal about the surrounding world. There is still a gap though, and I respect those who deliberately choose not to study certain aspects of the game world to prevent that.

Best,

A.

[corey_russell]

Grimwald the Wise wrote...

I personally would rather not know when to expect an ambush. it seems a lot more realistic. True you fail a lot more times, but in my opinion, winning is not everything. I play for fun, and an unexpected ambush adds to the fun.

PS

Rajkumari died in the Cloakwood Mines. She had defeated Drasus and co, and when facing the mage downstairs she used the Greenstone Amulet. It didn't protect against chaos and when that wore off, she was held and disabled with other spells as well. I am wondering if the fact that she is a Cavalier is the problem as the icon doesn't change when I use the amulet. Spider's Bane protects against hold,  but I was supposed to be protected against far more spells than was actually the case.

I am trying again, but this time I will take a party into the mines if I survive that long. I should do, as I now have the hang of playing paladins. Having Gavin, Xan and Coran in the party should make all the difference, and having both Xan and gavin vying over my affections could be interesting.

Sorry to hear that wise. Personally, if I'm going to be fighting the mages in the mines, I'm a defininte fan of either magic shielding or magic protection potions against those mages. Magic shielding automatically makes your saves so that would have saved you vs. the chaos. These kind of potions are perfect for a solo fighting character.

Although, I can remember in almost all my solo runs, I don't need the experience since at cap, and usually go invisible and avoid everything but Davaeorn, if possible.

Modifié par corey_russell, 16 décembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[AnonymousHero]

corey_russell wrote...

I see how it can be done the way you are describing -- you have to kite, definitely not my preference. Is there a chart somewhere that says what ambush occurs at what route?

I'm not sure exactly how accurate it is, but the Dudleyville walkthrough has listings of area codes + percentage chances of ambush for each individual map:

  http://www.forgotten.../bg1/ar2300.htm

(near the top with the N/E/S/W designations).

There is a "mini-guide" listing all the ambush areas themselves at:

  http://www.forgotten...bg1/waylaid.htm

[Shadow_Leech07]

corey_russell wrote...

Please, don't go through the trouble. I just wondered if this was already done, not asking for someone to actually find out from scratch. I remember some of them, and for a lot of people taking high hedge route to avoid ranged ambush attackers seems to be key, I will probably do that myself from now on.

This is dependant on game version as well. I don't know what the most updated version of the game is, but in my version we don't even get ring of wizardry. Game version, length of invisibility, all that matter with respect towards whether or not solo magery is do-able.

I never really liked the High Hedge route myself because for some reason there always seemed to be gibberlings or half-ogres that block the exit, you gotta wade through that, very nerve racking and intensive. Unless you're a stickler for pain...solo mages are an agony in vanilla.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 16 décembre 2011 - 07:48 .

[corey_russell]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...

corey_russell wrote...

Alesia_BH wrote...

corey_russell wrote...
 Is there a chart somewhere that says what ambush occurs at what route?

I recall figuring that out through experimentation for the early spawns (the later ones were unimportant). Sadly, I don't remember the results exactly (this was ~7 years ago).

IIRC in true vanilla I settled on taking the High Hedge route to Beregost and getting scrolls, Level 3 and my first PoI there before heading north to the Friendly Arm. I'd set up a true-vanilla install and run the tests again, but that would fall squarely into the royal pita category on a Macbook Air sans Windows partition and CD Drive. 

Please, don't go through the trouble. I just wondered if this was already done, not asking for someone to actually find out from scratch. I remember some of them, and for a lot of people taking high hedge route to avoid ranged ambush attackers seems to be key, I will probably do that myself from now on.

This is dependant on game version as well. I don't know what the most updated version of the game is, but in my version we don't even get ring of wizardry. Game version, length of invisibility, all that matter with respect towards whether or not solo magery is do-able.

I never really liked the High Hedge route myself because for some reason there always seemed to be gibberlings or half-orgres that block the exit, you gotta wade through that, very nerve racking and intensive. Unless you're a stickler for pain...solo mages are a pain in vanilla.

Sleep should be able to help with that mass...we weren't really saying solo mages weren't doable, as far as I know everyone agrees they are, but the issue of contention was are they doable 100%? Not by me (of course), but it seems some people can and have, if we go far enough back in no-reload history (which apparently I don't).

Ring of Wizardry works like this if I remember right:
BG 1 without official patch, no TotSC - ring present
BG 1 with official patch, no TotSC - ring not present
BG 1 with TotSC, without official Totsc Patch - ring not present
BG 1 with TotSC with official TotSC patch - ring present

Something like that anyways.

[Alesia_BH]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...

I never really liked the High Hedge route myself because for some reason there always seemed to be gibberlings or half-ogres that block the exit, you gotta wade through that, very nerve racking and intensive. Unless you're a stickler for pain...solo mages are an agony in vanilla.

In my install, there are Skeletons, Wild Dogs, Gnolls/Flinds, and non-hostile Bears in that area.

If you walk on a diagonal slightly north of the well worn path, then hug the building and wrap around from the west-side, you can get in and out without triggering any encounters.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 décembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

corey_russell wrote...
Sleep should be able to help with that mass...we weren't really saying solo mages weren't doable, as far as I know everyone agrees they are, but the issue of contention was are they doable 100%? Not by me (of course), but it seems some people can and have, if we go far enough back in no-reload history (which apparently I don't).

Ring of Wizardry works like this if I remember right:
BG 1 without official patch, no TotSC - ring present
BG 1 with official patch, no TotSC - ring not present
BG 1 with TotSC, without official Totsc Patch - ring not present
BG 1 with TotSC with official TotSC patch - ring present

Something like that anyways.

The key really is the length of invisibility. It wouldn't necessarily be 100%, I still don't trust the ambushes but if the invisibility works then the percentage improves dramatically. I don't have such a game so I can't really experiment myself. Invisibility was probably nerfed IMO because it rendered the ambushes useless. But perhaps some day I'll try it(solo mage) out on my version of the game. I'm always up for a challenge even if insane.

Alesia_BH wrote...
In my install, there are Skeletons, Wild Dogs, Gnolls/Flinds, and non-hostile Bears in that area.

If
you walk on a diagonal slightly north of the well worn path, then hug
the building and wrap around from the west-side, you can get in and out
without triggering any encounters.

I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks. There are gnolls, bears as well, and dagger throwing skeletons in my install, but this is also with the half-ogres and gibberlings. Basically anything in and around that area has a chance to pop up.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 16 décembre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Alesia_BH]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
The key really is the length of invisibility.

That's relevant, of course, but it isn't make or break. It's more like dozens (may be hundreds) of little tiny things that are difference makers and can vary depending on the details of your install. 

A lot of the difference makers can be pretty subtle. Whether you are counting off the round segments, monitoring rolls on incoming attacks to determine how you'll use your aura, how -exactly- you set your movement vectors- all of that stuff can matter. 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 décembre 2011 - 08:49 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

Alesia_BH wrote...

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
The key really is the length of invisibility.

That's relevant, of course, but it isn't make or break. It's more like dozens (may be hundreds) of little tiny things that are difference makers and can vary depending on the details of your install. 

I can agree with that. While soloing a bard I came up with a base of -1AC where I wanted to be before the additional AC l received from boots of avoidance and girdle of piercing. I felt that if I could achieve something akin to that with my characters I'd be able to reach the Ugoth Beard and get the cloak of displacement. But this was just my personal musings at the time. The problem with a mage from my viewpoint was that while a mage could buff shield and blur, he/she could only do it in a situation which was nonambush. But perhaps I just was never able to find the correct solution to the problem with regards to the ambushes.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 16 décembre 2011 - 08:48 .

[Grond0]

A couple more quick sessions this morning yielded disappointment for Certes.
- used invisibility to take the ankheg treasure and got a reputation boost by talking to a farmer.  Also in the area killed a zombie for Leila and talked to (and then killed) some fishermen.
- when taking the bowl back to Tenya I trusted that she wouldn't open with command, but was wrong - so Certes failed in his attempt to not be targeted with any spells or weapons.
- friend's spell placated the zombie farmer enough to provide a reward.
- at Ulgoth's Beard an out-of-control aerial servant accounted for Dushai.
- back down to temple next to Beregost to put down a wolf pack (magic missiles for the vampirics) - this got Certes fighter level 5.
- in Bassilus' area collected a chicken to successfully restore Melicamp and then went back to deal with Bassilus.  I thought when he was blinded almost instantly after his buffs went off that would be it, but he shrugged that off (Certes must have gone out of his visual range for an instant to allow him to heal himself) and Certes had to put on his ring of free action for a moment to protect against hold person.  Returning Bassilus's holy symbol gave him illusionist level 5.

The Tenya encounter is actually a good illustration of my no-reload failings: I knew command was a possibility, but it's pretty unusual as an SCS opening spell so I just took the chance. The safe bet would have been to go straight into the house until the mess from Tenya's initial buffs all firing had cleared away and I could see what spells she was casting. Even when I start with a clear concept for a run I nearly always lapse from that during gameplay (the only exceptions I can think of are the various speed runs I did where I wrote a script in advance and generally stuck to it reasonably closely).

[Shadow_Leech07]

Just a short update, will elaborate more later. My party came across the constitution tome and for some reason it was really difficult to part with. My endgame goal, if I can make it that far is to keep everyone with a base of 11. I will be taking a tome if I get that far but that is for endgame purposes. That's if I somehow make it that far, but we'll see.

[corey_russell]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...

Just a short update, will elaborate more later. My party came across the constitution tome and for some reason it was really difficult to part with. My endgame goal, if I can make it that far is to keep everyone with a base of 11. I will be taking a tome if I get that far but that is for endgame purposes. That's if I somehow make it that far, but we'll see.

Unless I am missing something, I don't believe the CON tome would make a difference in your case right? No CON bonus for 12.

[Shadow_Leech07]

corey_russell wrote...

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...

Just a short update, will elaborate more later. My party came across the constitution tome and for some reason it was really difficult to part with. My endgame goal, if I can make it that far is to keep everyone with a base of 11. I will be taking a tome if I get that far but that is for endgame purposes. That's if I somehow make it that far, but we'll see.

Unless I am missing something, I don't believe the CON tome would make a difference in your case right? No CON bonus for 12.

You're right, my cleric has DUHM and it did not affect her at all. I guess it's all mental.

[The Fred]

corey_russell wrote...
I see how it can be done the way you are describing -- you have to kite, definitely not my preference. Is there a chart somewhere that says what ambush occurs at what route?

This walkthrough has a pretty decent guide. Coming back to the play vs role-play point, though, I feel as though the existence and use of "safe routes" is a bit silly.
EDIT: I see AnonymousHero has already mentioned this.

Again, as a personal restriction I don't use "easter egg" items apart from the wand outside the Nashkel Mines since I found that one myself on like my first playthrough. Anyway I'm playing with Hard Times installed now which removes or scrambles them anyway. As such, getting the Ring of Wizardry whether to sell or to keep is significantly harder.

A solo mage is more than doable in most setups I'm sure, but with no access to helmets and the fact that a single kobold arrow can one-shot you even once you've gained a few levels, it's a risky business.

One thing I would mention is that if you're playing TuTu/BGT, the Fairy Dragon familiar is incredibly overpowered at L1. You get bonus health just for having a familiar, and it can cast Invisibility 10' Radius which is enough for your whole party.

[After5CST]

Alesia_BH wrote...

that would fall squarely into the royal pita category on a Macbook Air sans Windows partition and CD Drive.

I play on a Macbook Pro, using VirtualBox (free) and a Windows XP virtual machine (cost of an XP license, which I had one sitting around).

I used Disk Utility to import the CDs in CDR format, and the installation and use has largely been painless.  The biggest problems so far have been screen shots (without a print screen key, but a third-party download software solved that issue), and some learning enough of VirtualBox to get the VM to run full screen.

Recommended.

Modifié par After5CST, 16 décembre 2011 - 03:48 .

[Alesia_BH]

The Fred wrote...
Coming back to the play vs role-play point, though, I feel as though the existence and use of "safe routes" is a bit silly.

I can understand that view. And yes safe routing is silly. But that's a good thing to my mind.

This is a game- it's all about fun ultimately. Role playing adventures can be fun. Puzzles can be fun as well. I enjoy playing BG as a role playing adventure, but at other times I enjoy turning it into a puzzle. At those times, safe routing, level one play and other gambits of that ilk make sense. They're just different ways to enjoy the game world. Role playing remains my favorite approach, but the others can be fun as well.

Best,

A.


Btw. A lot of the knowledge required for safe routing could reasonably be acquired by characters within the game world. I do a lot of travelling in real life. And when I go to a new city, I read, speak to people, keep my eyes open, and figure out which areas are safe and which ones less so. I end up with a pretty good sense of where it would be nice to have a potion of invisibility....Plus, if I were really travelling through someplace as dangerous as the Sword Coast,  you can bet I'd have my stealthy friend scout every little inch ahead before going anywhere and that I'd ask a billion questions of every traveller I came across. Roleplaying needn't imply foolishness.

In the end, to my mind, all that matters is whether players are comfortable with the choices they're making and whether they are enjoying themselves. Also, I wouldn't want anyone to think "This is easy for player X and hard for me, so there is something wrong with me." There is a good chance player x has just played more or that player x is willing to do things you'd consider nuts.

Of the players who have been involved in the no reload challenge over the years, Saros was the most extreme on the meta-game/experimentation/envelope pressing end. If he found a re-spawn, he wouldn't mind sitting there and milking it for a really long time (I'm not sure if he ever left Irenicus's Dungeon at Level 40, but it wouldn't surprise me at all). That type of play doesn't appeal to me personally, but it was fun for him and it let him accomplish things in the game world that couldn't be done otherwise. That's a good thing. I'm glad to see people have fun- even if I choose to have fun in different ways.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 décembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[After5CST]

Grimwald the Wise wrote...

Rajkumari died in the Cloakwood Mines.

My condolances.  I've got a bone to pick with that mage as well, as that caused the end of my last run (one I was rather fond of, actually).  RL has put my playing on hold for a few weeks, but I'm itching to get back to my Sorc and hopefully make it back there for some venegance.

[Alesia_BH]

After5CST wrote...
I play on a Macbook Pro, using VirtualBox (free) and a Windows XP virtual machine (cost of an XP license, which I had one sitting around).

Makes sense. I Cider ported the Windows version to OS X. It sits in my Dock and runs natively. It's lovely but it was a pain to setup. 

Best,

A.

Btw. We're totally off topic now. Sorry everyone! 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 décembre 2011 - 04:02 .

[Alesia_BH]

Grimwald the Wise wrote...
Rajkumari died in the Cloakwood Mines. She had defeated Drasus and co, and when facing the mage downstairs she used the Greenstone Amulet. It didn't protect against chaos and when that wore off, she was held and disabled with other spells as well. I am wondering if the fact that she is a Cavalier is the problem as the icon doesn't change when I use the amulet. 

That sounds funky. Are you sure it was properly activated? Even with a clear Aura, there is a delay between press and effect. It's also possible to accidently over-ride the command of course.

I'll also note that even when the Amulet is working, it doesn't supress the Confusion animation or battle record notice. Are you sure she was in fact Confused and not just apparently Confused? 

As for the icons, I wouldn't expect to see them change with a Cavalier. The Greenstone Amulet posts Resist Fear (37) and Mind Shield (52) to your portrait. I've never played one, but I imagine those would already be there.

[Serg BlackStrider]

Hi again, friends!  

Well, after BlackStrider (Gnomish Cleric/Illusionist) and his Band Of Six fell in the final battle vs Melissan in my recent attempt I'm eager to start my next run. And even tho the last one was unsuccessful my current one will be in SCS/SCSII/Ascension world. I've learnt a lot (and definitely will learn much more) due to  thorough study of comrades runs who operates in that *universe* and so hope to succeed even if not in a first try.

So meet the Grim Face, an elven Sorcerer.
His character record and WeiDU log are here:

 

I skiped at the moment the Tactical challenges of SCS as I want to behave in my usual manner (explore everything) and I see vanilla ToSC areas (Durlag's Tower and Werewolf Isle) quite a challenge as they are. 

Spell picks at lvl 1 are Blindness and Shield.


So, the journey begin.

Grim Face left Candlekeep, joined his evertrusted Imoen, picked Gorion stuff, looted Diamond in the tree and headed to the Beregost through the High Hedge. We arrived there in the middle of the night so Imoen looted some houses (in particular wealthy manor for Wand of Lightning and Potion of Invisibility), bought Sling +1 and Ammo Belt in the Thunderhammer Smithy, calmed Marl, brought Mirianne her husband's letter and fetch some bedtime reading for Firebead Elvenhair. Both adventures are still lvl 1.

to be continued...



 

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 16 décembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[Alesia_BH]

Serg BlackStrider wrote...
Hi again, friends!  
 

Hi. 

Good luck with your run Serg! I'm looking forward to this one.

Best,

A.

[corey_russell]

Wishing you luck Serg -- or as Thalantyr says, perhaps I should wish you intelligence, instead, as luck soon runs out...

[AnonymousHero]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
Invisibility was probably nerfed IMO because it rendered the ambushes useless. But perhaps some day I'll try it(solo mage) out on my version of the game. I'm always up for a challenge even if insane.

I shouldn't think developers did this on purpose, it's probably just a bug (an overflowing 32/16-bit counter or some such). The developers definitely did an incredible job to make a game that's still being played seriously after so many years, but I don't think anyone was actually soloing mages seriously until Elmonster appeared on the scene and that was pretty late in terms of market lifetime of the game. (EDIT: AFAIR)

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks. There are gnolls, bears as well, and dagger throwing skeletons in my install, but this is also with the half-ogres and gibberlings. Basically anything in and around that area has a chance to pop up.

I'm playing BGT with Widescreen mod, but I've noticed that (at least in BGT) all the random encounters are triggered by some sort of area trigger when you're about 1½ screens away. This is extremely noticeable if you have SCS/SCSII since the huge scripts cause a noticeable stutter. If you have great speed (Haste/BoS) you can sometimes avoid the trigger simply by going the straight route rather than trying to finesse your way around.

Modifié par AnonymousHero, 16 décembre 2011 - 06:53 .

[AnonymousHero]

Serg BlackStrider wrote...
... my current one will be in SCS/SCSII/Ascension world. I've learnt a lot (and definitely will learn much more) due to  thorough study of comrades runs who operates in that *universe* and so hope to succeed even if not in a first try.

Excellent. Another player on SCS/SCSII. You'll definitely find some challenges ahead, but once you get used to it you won't want to go back.

[Gate70]

Back again. BGT with Ascension and Generalized Biffing. Gomm, CG male half orc barbarian & the cursed berserking sword.

Marl, Firebead and Brage are quite the experience level 2, 34hp. I equip the sword.

A belted ogre feels my rage ac penalty of 2, but 36hp and strength/constitution of 23 makes this feasible at level 2 and I gain more experience level 3, 49hp. Then I have a wobble as I attack a xvart and gibberling while a cave bear and worse a ghast get free shots in while I am not raged. I'm relieved when I manage to drop the ghast, and badly wounded by the time the bear is dead.

Worgs and a raged sirene are next level 4, 56hp. Two more raged sirines, then Sil level 5 comes up only a minute or so after level 4, 70hp.

I have time to grab a belt from Krumm and bracers from Meilum before raiding the cave of Black Alaric. I single hit and chunk one flesh golem, then take two hits to kill a second and trade two blows against one with the final golem level 6 about 3 minutes after level 4, 79hp.

Two tomes later charisma and constitution give regeneration and 91hp when raged I descend into Nashkel mine. Xan takes a raged critical hit and explodes into chunks, as does Mulahey.

Modifié par Gate70, 16 décembre 2011 - 09:20 .