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Baldur's Gate 1 No-Reload Challenge


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#4376
After5CST

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Alesia_BH wrote...

Is this [encounter pathing percentages] all silly? Sure. But that's ok by me.

Always a pleasure to read your posts, and I frequently learn at least a thing or two.

corey_russell wrote...
[Alesia's] characters seem to avoid situations where luck was required to get out of them.

True, as opposed to mine... who seem to live and die on the sword of random chance.  Probably a bit too much.

Update on Ja'kal coming shortly.  No, I haven't gotten him killed yet, although a few things were touch-and-go.  I will say that I totally underestimated the effectiveness of Blindness -- crazy good spell, particularly once I learned (at least with vanilla AI) that blind enemies can't attack back if you stay out of melee range... they become immobile pincushions against ranged weapons.

Early experimentation with Melf's Minute Meteors seems to be really good, too, as reported here and elsewhere on the web.  I need to play with it some more, though.

#4377
After5CST

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Update: Ja'kal M E Sorc
Party: Imoen, Ajantis

I'm not exactly sure where I left off last time, but I'll hit some highlights. 

Along the way, we went to the Gnoll Fortress to get Ajantis some gloves, using the safer route of Nashkel -> Xvart Village -> S to "Dead Cat" map -> Gnoll Fortress.  Sadly, I can't seem to leave Dynaheir in captivity, the dialog options to release her seem... inappropriate for my play style, and by the time we get back to Nashkel, nine times out of ten she provides enough help to the party I just can't see kicking her out.

Party: Imoen, Ajantis, Dynaheir.

Since the goal is to add Yeslick (never used him as an NPC before), we're trying to move quickly into and through Cloakwood, so we take on the (Nashkel) mines with a relatively low-level party, relying on Ajantis to tank (thanks to Gauntlets of Dexterity and the ever-so-popular Ankheg Armor).  Kobolds are carved up nicely.   Mulahey can't finish a spell with a regular stream of Magic Missiles coming from both Dynaheir and Ja'kal, so he falls quickly ... an important thing, since the party has no access to resist fear or hold- resistant items.

This establishes the early party identity: The best defense is a strong offense.  Leaving the mines, the party is still too weak for the bandit camp, and I (the player) just can't turn down the chance to try the Amazons.  The initial plan is to use Dynaheir's two second level slots for Invisibility, sneak up invisibile Ajantis and Imoen on the archer and dart thrower, and then force them to melee while Dynaheir and Ja'kal use Magic Missile to keep the clerics from casting spells.  Not a great plan, but it's all I can come up with for a squad of 3rd/4th level characters.

However, working up from the bottom, they manage to get within sight of Maneira without triggering the encounter.  On a lark, Dynaheir casts her single Charm Person at her from range, without triggering an encounter.  Failure... but Maneira doesn't notice.

Time for a new plan.  Dynaheir changes out Invisibility for Stinking Cloud (she loves that spell!), and the party rests a few times, casting her Charm Person at Maneira after each rest, until finally...
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Jakal and Maneira on Flickr

Now ready for an encounter, the new plan is to trigger the encounter (quickly), have Maneira use melee on the other ranged F/T to force melee, and the party can hopefully sit back and use ranged attacks and Magic Missile on the Clerics, probably distracting one and killing the other before moving in for the kill.   Except...

Triggering the encounter changes Maneira immediately to hostile, overriding the spell apparently.  All that resting and planning is now wasted due to a lack of knowledge on my part about game engine mechanics.  However, it takes her a moment to switch weapons, and Dynaheir instead leads with a Stinking Cloud over the whole enemy set.

Surprisingly, luck holds, and three out of four drop.  The lone standing cleric can't stand up to the barrage of Magic Missiles and arrows from Ja'kal, Ajantis, and Imoen, so no spells from her, either.  Imoen falls to a Hold Person spell, but Stinking Cloud keeps the Amazons from being able to take advantage of the situation and they start dropping like flies.  By the time the Amazons start making their saves, the battle is all but over, with one fleeing Cleric (frightened by low hit points) dropped outside the cloud, and the rest never even took a step.
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Jakal defeats the Amazons on Flickr

More later, this post is just too long.

Modifié par After5CST, 21 décembre 2011 - 01:06 .


#4378
Grimwald the Wise

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Rajkumari rescued Duke Eltan using potions of invisibility. She then took on the Iron throne using a potion of magic blocking. Then she went to deal with the assassins. Krystin however seems to be unkillable. She has an infinite number of spells to cast Chaos, Confusion, Hold, Fireball, Lightning Bolt and seems to regenerate as well. Is this another bug?

Tried again using potion of mind blocking and potion of Cloud Giant Strength. She then fell easily.

Now for the Ducal Palace. Since I've never done it with SCS installed, it could be interesting.

#4379
ussnorway

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Grimwald the Wise wrote...
Now for the Ducal Palace. Since I've never done it with SCS installed, it could be interesting.


Like the difference between hunting rabbit and hunting bear... good luck! :wub:

#4380
Grimwald the Wise

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ussnorway wrote...

Grimwald the Wise wrote...
Now for the Ducal Palace. Since I've never done it with SCS installed, it could be interesting.


Like the difference between hunting rabbit and hunting bear... good luck! :wub:


You shouldn't wish me luck, but wish me intelligence, since luck runs out! Posted Image

I was intelligent enough to buff strength and dex to the max and as a result it was a walkover due to my innate magical protections and the wand of sleep. The only problem that I had was finding the doppelganger who hid on another floor.

If only the other battles had been so easy. (Actually I wish that this one had been a bit harder.)

#4381
Grond0

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Grimwald the Wise wrote...
If only the other battles had been so easy. (Actually I wish that this one had been a bit harder.)

Sounds like you don't have improved dopplegangers installed.  You could always give that a go (but be careful what you wish for)!

#4382
Grond0

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After5CST wrote...
Except...

Triggering the encounter changes Maneira immediately to hostile, overriding the spell apparently.  All that resting and planning is now wasted due to a lack of knowledge on my part about game engine mechanics.  However, it takes her a moment to switch weapons, and Dynaheir instead leads with a Stinking Cloud over the whole enemy set.

I think this sort of behaviour is common to all the parties with scripted conversations.  You may be able to turn it to your advantage by initially charming the one that has the conversation.  With them out of the picture the others won't turn hostile and you can charm them or otherwise prepare your assault at your leisure.

#4383
Serg BlackStrider

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Update of Grim Face & Co

Well, after we experienced  the SCS mage's behaviour it is time for the fighter's one. The Four Horsemen headed to the south of FAI and after elimination of some Gibberlings they engaged the belted Ogre. He proved to be the Dumb One and fell pretty quickly. Greywolf  was much smarter and began with the Potion of Freedom. He then chased Grim Face shrugged the first Blindness. Grim Face gulped the Potion of Speed and retreated. The second Blindness connected and Graywolf started to run all over the area. Eventually he fell to the hail of missiles (gulped the Potion of Extra Healing in-between). Back to the Beregost and Karlat (started with Potion of Defence) also failed the second Blindness and fell soon after (although after furious running as well). So fighter's SCS behaviour proved to be quite interesting as well!

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

The Band returned to Perdue his precious sword and made the trip to the south of High Hedge with intent to save Melicamp-the-Chicken. Were ambushed by skeletons but fled unscattered. But on the way back with Melicamp in the backpack we were ambushed with Gibberlings and Grim Face got his first lucky (yes I think it's lucky) critical (11 hp out of total 12, ouch!) :

Posted Image

To obtain some skull we fought skeletons in High Hedge (who, been mindless creatures, also proved some *intelligent* behaviour spreading apart but nothing that Khalid with Graywolf's sword and some healing potions couldn't master). The further events suggested that our daily *luck quota* is exhausted - the Melicamp doesn't survived transformation (again! I even forgot how he looks in human form now!) - so the Band is now resting in the Feldepost's Inn and thinking about their next move.

to be continued...

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 21 décembre 2011 - 05:28 .


#4384
corey_russell

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Close call there, Serg. Interesting write-up on SCS behavior. Once my two runs are over (Cody and Vessen), I am thinking about installing SCS on BG 1 -- BG 1 successes for me are almost clockwork for me now (unless I'm solo). BG 2/ToB is another matter, since I've only successfully done a trilogy no-reload twice, that's hardly clock-work (with many failures).

#4385
Serg BlackStrider

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corey_russell wrote...

Close call there, Serg. Interesting write-up on SCS behavior. Once my two runs are over (Cody and Vessen), I am thinking about installing SCS on BG 1 -- BG 1 successes for me are almost clockwork for me now (unless I'm solo). BG 2/ToB is another matter, since I've only successfully done a trilogy no-reload twice, that's hardly clock-work (with many failures).


Thanks, Corey! :happy: And even with my pretty slender experience of SCS BG1 I highly recommend it now! It's definitely quite fun. Surely try it, you'll not be disappointed.   :happy:

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 21 décembre 2011 - 06:16 .


#4386
SpiffyKeen

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Alesia_BH wrote...

...

Took care of Greywolf first. Alice's standard battle strategy is to pre-buff with Shield and her Battlesong. She then uses Blindness or Sleep depending on her foes and finishes with some combination of Darts or Mirror Image->Chill Touch. The battle song is activated between attacks. As you can see from this roll, Greywolf had little hope.
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...

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Best,

A.


You have probably discussed this many times during other runs in which your characters use similar buffs, but can you clarify how these work out? 

1.  AC at -4 almost makes sense to me:  Shield (AC=5), 18 Dex (AC=1), Protect Ring (AC=0), Buckler (AC=-1), Skald Bard Song (AC=-3), and where does the last one come from?  Is it a magic buckler? 

2.  How do you use the bard song and attack?  Doesn't it take a full round for the song to kick in, kinda like turn undead?  If this works, is it possible to use turn undead and attack as well?  I could never get that to work. 

3.  How can Greywolf miss on a 19+4=23 attack roll?  If your AC=-4, and his attacks are slashing, then for him to miss on a 23, his thac0 would have to be a 23-4=19.  I know his thac0 is lower than that.  What am I missing?

Modifié par SpiffyKeen, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:13 .


#4387
Serg BlackStrider

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SpiffyKeen wrote...

1.  AC at -4 almost makes sense to me:  Shield (AC=5), 18 Dex (AC=1), Protect Ring (AC=0), Buckler (AC=-1), Skald Bard Song (AC=-3), and where does the last one come from?  Is it a magic buckler? 


Shield: AC=4 vs melee and 2 vs missiles... 
It lasts 5 turns. May be that confused you?

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:37 .


#4388
ussnorway

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UD2;
I started running around collecting my party... the plan was to have Minsc help me rescue his damsel in distress but I as it turned out I had to drop him (see below) so Branwen will have to do. Jaheira used stealth to deliver a ‘potion of invisible’ to Dynaheir & Do’dad grabbed the gloves of dex then I tried to save a chook but we seem to have a theme so I just finished my shopping & picked a fight with Droth for my level two... Ajantis decided that the helm should belong to him.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Ormaline has 14 hit points plus wands of Frost, Summoning and Fire. :wub:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Bugs/ issues encountered;

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Minsc
starts with too much experience i.e. L6.

Modifié par ussnorway, 22 décembre 2011 - 08:33 .


#4389
Alesia_BH

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1.  AC at -4 almost makes sense to me


As Serg noted, Shield sets AC to 4 with an addional -2 against missles. The buckler takes off 1. The Ring takes off another one. The Skald song subtracts 2. The Dex adjustment accounts for the rest. 

How do you use the bard song and attack?


The Bard Song takes a little time to activate. However, it last one round after activation. What she is essentially doing is activating the song before attacking and then reactivating as soon as she gets her attack roll off. Once the Bard song refreshes, she then rengages. It works best with a quick weapon.

How can Greywolf miss on a 19+4=23 attack roll? 


He had already been Blinded at that point.

Best,

A.

#4390
Serg BlackStrider

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Alesia_BH wrote...

How can Greywolf miss on a 19+4=23 attack roll? 

He had already been Blinded at that point.


At first I thought so too, but then began to wonder (in my install I have all those additional rolls visible and can see how various effects i.e. Invisibility, attack from shadows, Blindness etc. were taken into account) - should that Blindness penalty to hit be included in the calculation of the final result? :huh:

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 22 décembre 2011 - 10:03 .


#4391
Shadow_Leech07

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A bit of bad news, my palindromes have died in Cloakwood Mines(or at least Cloakwood itself). I'll just give a short summary won't bother with a big detailed one.

Game was going very well, and the party reached the third level and were preparing to take on Daveorn. But a mistake had been made, namely resting in the place where Natasha was defeated. The guards had perfect position and entrapped Eve and from then on it was a death match. The party did survive this encounter, but with only three badly injured palindromes, the game seemed to smell blood in the water. So after trying to escape Cloakwood, the palindromes made a few more mistakes, namely not allowing Hannah to die alone the woods. The game could've most definitely went on, abeit hindered greatly but I just couldn't let go of her equipment and that pretty much was the end of the palindromes. I was sad at first but then I realized it wasn't a bad run. The game required precision for a very long time and I slipped up.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 22 décembre 2011 - 11:16 .


#4392
corey_russell

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Consolations, Shadow_leech-- I wanted those palindromes to go all the way, but guess it wasn't fated to be.

#4393
Shadow_Leech07

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corey_russell wrote...

Consolations, Shadow_leech-- I wanted those palindromes to go all the way, but guess it wasn't fated to be.


Thank you, yeah it's has been very interesting, but not something I want to do again surprisingly. But I'm still thinking up what to do next.

#4394
Serg BlackStrider

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Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
The game could've most definitely went on, abeit hindered greatly but I just couldn't let go of her equipment and that pretty much was the end of the palindromes.


Sorry to hear that... I know the feeling - I had precisely the same situation and thoughts in SoA during one of my previous no-reload runs. Felt really bad then...

#4395
Shadow_Leech07

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Serg BlackStrider wrote...

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
The game could've most definitely went on, abeit hindered greatly but I just couldn't let go of her equipment and that pretty much was the end of the palindromes.


Sorry to hear that... I know the feeling - I had precisely the same situation and thoughts in SoA during one of my previous no-reload runs. Felt really bad then...

Yeah it's not a very nice feeling. I don't know, maybe it has something to do with sunk costs.

#4396
Shadow_Leech07

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I'm starting a new game with a solo thief to be played on core.

I was kind of wondering, does anyone think that a party of level one characters could make it through the game? I was trying to think of situations how someone could do this, with lots of fighter/mages casting charm and blindness and a halfling thief specializing in detrapping...but I couldn't come up with ways to avoid the mass amount of spamming (charm/blindness) nor how to deal with enemies that are immune to such things. Obviously wands and other items play a role, but I have great doubt.

#4397
Alesia_BH

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@ Serg. When you are Blinded, it adjust your base THAC0 rather then being applied as a penalty to the roll.

I'll also note that he had fail his save against Chill Touch a few times by then. His THAC0 would have been near 30 at that point.

#4398
Alesia_BH

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Quick Note on Arkona (AKA- Alice)

Alice (now named Arkona) has cleared the Bandit Camp. She'll head into the Cloakwood this weekend.

Best,

A.

#4399
Serg BlackStrider

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Alesia_BH wrote...
@ Serg. When you are Blinded, it adjust your base THAC0 rather then being applied as a penalty to the roll.


Got it! :wizard:

Safe journey to you in the Cloakwood :happy:

#4400
After5CST

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Shadow_Leech07 wrote...

I was kind of wondering, does anyone think that a party of level one characters could make it through the game?

Earlier in this thread (and on others), it's apparently been proven that you can win BG1 with a single character.  At level 1.  And without accumulating any XP prior to Sarevok, IIRC.

That accomplishment (I am quite sure) requires a great understanding of the game mechanics.  Even so, I'm guessing a party of L1 characters should be very doable.