16404 réponses à ce sujet

[BelgarathMTH]

Update on Todd the Diviner, 4/9/2012:

-decided to clear our names while in BG and drive Sarevok into his hole before proceeding to Ice and Werewolf Islands. Used invisibility to sneak to the Iron Throne headquarters. Cythanthia and her ogre berserkers melted like butter in two cloudkills combined with MMM's and magic missile barrage. (I have minor sequencer for the first volley.)

-used two webs, haste, detect invisibility, MMM, and more magic missile barrages to make short work of Slythe and Kristen.



-used haste and a lot of MMM's to easily defeat the doppelgangers and unprepared Sarevok and his pet wizard. Saved both Belt and his lady. Cleared our names. I love the idea of Sarevok thinking that we will recklessly rush after him and sitting there stewing in his own juices! We will leisurely explore BG and the islands, collecting resources, before we even consider finishing matters. Let him rot down there!

-Saved a child from the clerics of Umberlee, by simply paying them an outrageous sum of gold. Better than violence, which I always prefer to avoid if I can.

-Attempted to return the sigil of Entar Silvershield's son to his estate. Guards led by Skie attacked us instead. We ran outside, Held the guards who followed so as to spare their lives. I shrugged and threw the insignia on the ground.

-Killed an ogre berserker in the Blushing Mermaid for precious xp.

-Killed an evil party of adventurers in the Helm and Cloak using webs, haste, MMM's, and magic missile storms. (With minor sequencer and high level, these get to be the equivalent of an Isaac's Storm. I kind of wish that spell were here with 2nd edition rules. )

-Took our needed sea charts by force from an evil pirate company holing up in the merchan't guild, using our usual web, haste, MMM, and magic missies. I tried placing a cloudkill on the top floor and then running back downstairs, but it turns out that doing an area transition erases the cloud.

-Returned to Ulgoth's Beard. Will probably do Ice and Werewolf Islands tomorrow. I have never figured out how to trigger the cult-in-the-basement quest. Can anyone tell me how?

Todd - 9th level diviner
Ajantis - 8th level cavalier
Gavin - 8th level cleric
Imoen - 8th level thief/7th level illusionist.

I'm starting to really enjoy this party. I think I might continue playing them if I die by moving back into the minimal reload, unless I get the same ridiculous 5 or 6 reloads to beat Sarevok and company. When I am finally there, maybe I'll try practicing several dry runs using my failed inquisitor save before I risk this party in it.

Thanks for reading.

[Grond0]

BelgarathMTH wrote...
-Returned to Ulgoth's Beard. Will probably do Ice and Werewolf Islands tomorrow. I have never figured out how to trigger the cult-in-the-basement quest. Can anyone tell me how?

Talk to the dwarf in Ulgoth's Beard Inn who will ask you to recover a dagger from the Demon Knight in Durlag's Tower.
The action in the quest should start automatically when you return to Ulgoth's Beard having killed done this.

[ussnorway]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

-Saved a child from the clerics of Umberlee, by simply paying them an outrageous sum of gold. Better than violence, which I always prefer to avoid if I can.

FYI: If you save the evil child Tenya (Wyrm's Crossing map, follow the river north without crossing the bridge) from the even-more evil fishermen ( Fishing Village map) then she will reward you with the body of the thief/boy later without needing to pay or fight for it.

Note; You can just kill Sonner but talking him into returning the “Bowl of Water Elemental Control” pays better experience.

[BelgarathMTH]

@Grond0 and UssNorway, thanks for the tips. I guess I won't ever do that cult quest, since I've never cared to struggle through the bottom floors of Durlag's Tower. That place just isn't my kind of fun. (traps, puzzles, and a demon knight to look forward to at the end of all of it. Bleagh.)

EDIT: Well, I just practiced the final battle with Sarevok all morning, about ten times, all lost. (With my already failed inquisitor save file, not my current diviner run.) I simply cannot beat this battle on core rules with BGT. I finally figured out a way I can stop pulling my hair about it, though. Rather than going through a reinstall to revert to Easy Tutu, I can just turn the difficulty slider down for this one battle. I realize that that's not going to win me any kudos, but I'm doing this to relax, not to stress out!

EDIT, and FINAL update:

As expected, my diviner bit the dust against Semaj. (It was the Death Spell and the Flesh to Stone - He got me with his death spell despite my being ninth level, and I thought that made me immune. Or maybe it was the petrify. I don't know.)

It would have been easy enough to protect against the petrify at least, with potions or spells. But I don't know, I'm kind of fed up with this. I will not be playing BGT again. Life is too short for this kind of stress and frustration with what is supposed to be an amusement.

I will be waiting for BGEE and seeing what the final battle is like in that. If I judge it to be fair, I will gladly become a BG fan again.

Cheers.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 10 avril 2012 - 09:32 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Entering Todd the Cleric of Oghma:

How's this for something different - I have downloaded the GoG.com version of the game, and I am going to remind myself what it feels like to play completely un-modded. You heard me right, no mods. Zero. None whatsoever, right down to the low resolution. I want to experience this game the way it was originally intended, just for kicks and giggles. This should be interesting, as I've played so many years with Easy Tutu and BGT along with 1001 other mods, that I don't have any idea what to expect here.

[After5CST]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

As expected, my diviner bit the dust against Semaj. (It was the Death Spell and the Flesh to Stone - He got me with his death spell despite my being ninth level, and I thought that made me immune.

Condolances.  Been there, done that recently.

Best of luck on your "plain vanilla" entry!

[BelgarathMTH]

 @After5, thanks man.

Update 4/10/2012:

So far so good, and lots of cool stuff to boot.

Did ogre and returned the belt to Unshey, spiders and returned whatserface's stuff and the spider heart, beat Karlat, killed half-ogres and got RoP +1, got whatsisface's boots, went to the Jovial Juggler and got Perdue's mission. Avoided the bandits holding Silvershield's ensignia for now, and Silke, wanting more hit points and options first.

Cool stuff about playing vanilla:

-The paper dolls and animations are much more realistic than in BG2.

-The spell incantations are more "mysterious" and "otherwordly".

-The zoomed in look lets you see a lot more detail than the zoomed out look.

-The inability to access inventory screens while paused adds a LOT to realism. You have to plan your quickslots and spells much more carefully. No more going into inventory and gaining infinite access to equipment as though you had 1001 hands.

-The ease of play even on core rules makes me suspect that some mods, somehow, alter dice rolls or other subtle aspects of enemy tactics used or difficulty. This is seriously way easier than a Tutu or BGT installation. But I really like it, honestly. As I said, I am doing this to relax and enjoy myself, not to stress out and grind my teeth to nubs!

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 11 avril 2012 - 02:53 .

[Grond0]

Sorry about your frustrations with Sarevok Belgarath. The easy way to protect your PC in the final battle is with scroll of magic protection. I guess you might have been reluctant to use that as you can't cast spells through it, but you can still use items in BGT so a mage-type can contribute using wands (note that this scroll functions differently in vanilla).

Enjoy your current run and good luck with Todd!

[Shadow_Leech07]

sorry for your loss Belgarath, try using the pro scroll on Semaj as it renders him essentially useless.

[saros_shadow_follower]

SCS makes ProMagic scroll usable on self only. It should be possible to overwhelm Semaj with monster hordes though. Or use a disabling spell like Emotion or even Chaos. Best after dispelling Semaj's buffs via an arrow (unless it was a solo diviner run). You could also try darts of stunning and/or of wounding.

Anyway, I decided to rejoin the challenge with a new team of just 3 - PC necromancer LG 18/18/17/18/18/3, Drizzt ranger LG 18(00)/18/18/13/18/3 and Haer'Dalis Assassin TN 18/18/18/14/18/3. With a party of 3 it could hardly be called a challenge, even with the SCS install and all, but I'm doing it as a ground zero team for my no-reload IA 6 run in BG2 + ToB, with tomes read by the assassin. That doesn't really matter this much, but still it's annoying sometimes to have an Assassin fighter with too few hp or strength of just 18.

Will post (with screens) only the tougher battles (if my team lives to get there). Will however try them all, including Aec'letec and werewolf isle. Will also clear all areas of minor 'bosses' or named enemies. And will try to complete all sidequests, tedious as it may be. So far the party has well equipped itself in chapter 2 with spells and items - thanx to the respawning doppleganger group in Durlag's tower outskirts. At least PC got Fireball, ProMissiles, Knock, Haste and Slow spells - very essential indeed. Found 2 tomes as well - one Wisdom (read by the ranger), and one Constitution (read by the assassin).

Will cheese several tough encounters. Mostly because of being lazy. Battles to be noted:

Durlag's tower dungeon lvl 1 end fight (Love, Avarice, Pride & Fear)
Durlag's tower Kiel throne room fight (3 greater dopplegangers)
Durlag's tower Chessboard fight
Durlag's tower demonknight fight
Aec'letec fights (all fight in Ulgoth's beard - every last one)
Karoug fight
Mendas fight
Ice prison Andris & co fight (the toughest one there IMO)

Bandit Camp fight (just out of interest - not that it's that hard)
Important fights in Cloakwood mines...the four of them - mercenary group outside, Hareisan, Natasha and of course, Davaeorn.
Iron Throne upper floor fight.
3*Ogre mage fight in chapter 6
Fight with Prat and his group in chapter 6
Chapter 7 fights - all of the important ones - iron throne upper level mage, undercellar assassins, ducal palace doppleganger fight, mercenaries in the underworld before Sarevok, and the final battle of course.

[BelgarathMTH]

Good luck with your new run, Saros.

BGT limits summonses to five at a time, so no overwhelming anybody with monsters. Plus, Semaj's death spell instantly kills any first wave.

My experience with using a green scroll of protection from magic was that it would sure enough keep you safe from Semaj, so that Tazok, Angelo, and Sarevok could kill you instead, and you with no magic use available, not even potions. And Angelo's arrows of detonation ignore protection from magic.

I have convenience features from SCS installed - I wonder if installing the core components of it to get the convenience changes the way some spells and items work. Oh well. I appreciate all the feedback, help, tea, and sympathy I've gotten about that fight. This is one of the nicest communities in cyberspace.

[saros_shadow_follower]

I don't remember the ProMagic scroll hindering the use of potions, scrolls and wands. In fact, you can pre-buff pretty well with a starting ProMagic scroll and afterwards apply all potions/scrolls needed. And you can cast spells from scrolls afterwards as well.

I think that Death spell watches life total, so if your total HP are below 60, you could get instantly killed. In that case, either use the summons to waste enemy Death spell, or simply buff your PC by using scrolls of Vampiric touch on a ground item pre-combat. This will increase your overall HP for several turns.

Using ProMissiles magic scroll + Profire scroll/green scroll/potions should keep you safe from Angelo. As for Sarevok and Tazok - use running + invisibility potions/charges from ring to lead them away from the mages, then return to the mages and finish them before Sarevok/Tazok can find you again. Another thing you may try is challenging the enemies, then hiding under Invisibility and waiting 5 turns before engaging them anew so that Sarevok's haste buff wane. In that case of course, many of your buffs will expire as well, and enemy mages will not lose any spells or prebuffs due to SCS feature. But at least Sarevok and Tazok won't be hasted...

You may also use Secret Word scrolls (not spell) to target Semai and/or Angelo and remove their Minor Globes, so that afterwards they can be, for example, webbed and thus eliminated relatively easy. Semaj has good saves, of course, but still, Web applies -2 penalty to saves. Not to mention that with MGoI gone, you can use scroll of Detect Invisibility to purge Semaj's illusions and thus worsen her saves even more. So maybe the best tactic for a solo diviner should be this:

Challenge enemies. Buff with some minor scrolls and items which prevent disabling effects (Free Action ring, Greenstone amulet charge, maybe even a Promissiles scroll, and fire res 100%), so your character can avoid any starting damage or nasty spell. Wait for Sarevok to drink his Oil of speed, then go Invisible via a spell (because you will be unable to cast spells later), and wait under Cloak of Non-detection for 5 turns. 

Edit: Sorry, got carried away as I was describing a tactic for a Necromancer, who cannot cast illusion spells

Walk in the other corner of the temple. Hopefully enemies won't follow. But even if they do, activate ProMagic, then immediately go invisible again, and buff calmly with everything you want. It's best not to have Free Action in order to get the full speed effect of Boots of Speed + Oil of Speed and be faster than any enemy.

Use Secret word scroll on Semaj, and if you want - on Angelo as well. Use Detect Invisibility afterwards to dispel their invisibility. After that you may want to lower their saves via Greater Malison. Then Web them. All of this should be with running around and hurling Darts of Stunning now and then if anyone of them is unprotected from missiles. However I think they both run Promissiles, so this may be a waste. Don't forget that Potions of Mind focusing improve both your missile THAC0 AND AC, so drink one as prebuff too.

I don't remember if there are enough Secret Word scrolls, so you may not wanna scribe any, just buy them and save them for this fight. Also, you may simply wait for enemy MGoI to wane (I think enemy mage levels are 12), so wait 12 rounds and then try webbing them.

If your buffs are dispelled by enemy Remove Magic, hide under Invisibility and rebuff. I hope you brought enough potions and scrolls....

Prebuff should include ProUndead scroll in order to be protected from the Skeleton Warriors appearing after any enemy dies. Also, you may try separating the enemies by leading some away and hiding under Invisibility. Might work. If not rinse repeat.

Anyway kill Semaj while she's webbed. You may try charming her or Angelo via the Nymph or Algrenon cloak. However that may prove to be harder than expected, but still will win you a powerful ally. Well, Sarevok will kill that ally fast enough, but still, this will give you time to focus and kill another enemy. Ignore the Skeleton Warriors. Loot Semaj's corpse for a +3 protection ring, and put it on for better protection.

I think after Semaj and Angelo are dead, and Sarevok has no longer Haste, your job is relatively easy. Use the Monster summoning wand and hurl darts/fling stones at him with PC (when he's last man standing of course).

Hope that helps.

Edit: I've managed to win this fight with a solo berserker (who had no proficiencies in Longbow but still used it a lot in the fight) and a solo sorceress, so it shouldn't be that hard for a solo diviner. If you have a party behind your back, things are even easier, even it that 'party' consists of just one NPC.

Modifié par saros_shadow_follower, 11 avril 2012 - 04:29 .

[Grond0]

saros_shadow_follower wrote...
I don't remember the ProMagic scroll hindering the use of potions, scrolls and wands. In fact, you can pre-buff pretty well with a starting ProMagic scroll and afterwards apply all potions/scrolls needed. And you can cast spells from scrolls afterwards as well.

I think the scroll did prohibit all magic use in vanilla, but as Saros says you should be able to use all items in BGT (the scroll will abolish any existing buffs, but allow any subsequent ones), which gives plenty of scope for both defensive and offensive tactics.

[Gate70]

Off topic here but I have run Belgarath's inquisitor save game on my BGT build (so not got correct portraits, proficiencies etc and some silly messages when selecting characters as dialogue files are different). Not sure if THACO and APR are correct either, but in theory this shows what can be done.

The party looks to have minimal equipment, no girdles or longbow/shortbows for example. I had a few fails but here was my successful attempt (number 4, not easy to do even when you have a plan).

The party position at the bottom right of the temple. Should really be left, see later.
Imoen hides and wanders towards Sarevok. He talks and she retreats, still hidden.

Angelo.
Kivan charms a bat, Semaj fries it.
Kivan charms a second bat, Semaj fries it too.
Kivan charms a third bat, this time the fighters chase after it and Angelo shoots an arrow of detonation. He lights up Tazok and Sarevok, they respond by killing him.


Kivan sends in another bat to move Tazok and Sarevok further away from Semaj.

Semaj.
Branwen uses a scroll of protection from magic and attacks Semaj.
She follows him twice as he teleports, while the rest of us realise we should be on the left of the door so quickly move.


So far so good. With the two ranged attackers gone it should just be a case of hit and run, but the limited missiles is a concern. Melf meteors will help though, and three wands of the heavens are also going to be valuable.

Branwen loots Semaj then a hidden Imoen right-click loots Angelo. At last, a bow. Pity nobody has bow proficiencies. Kivan should still be fairly deadly though.

De-buff Sarevok. Ooh, Todd is an Inquisitor.
Todd wastes an inquisitor dispel magic (should have located Sarevok with a hidden character). The second dispel works but Todd has added a battle horror to the fray. He retreats and uses a potion of invisibility.

They can die together or they can die alone.
Kivan has the bracers of archery, so takes the boots of speed from Todd and stealths towards Sarevok. From the shadows his THACO is 5. Tazok is closest and a good target so an arrow of detonation (inventory: five brought plus two from Angelo) is used. Note, Kivan is hidden before the damage is complete.


So you want to die alone.
Tazok has moved to where Kivan hid (between the mosaic and the entrance). Todd takes back the boots of speed and checks his weapons. Axe and shield would be best, but he only has a throwing axe so cannot melee with it.

I try swapping equipment, silly idea. Your game allows magical armour, rings and cloaks to stack so Todd sees his AC drop from -8 to -4, and Branwen from -8 to -7 before I realise. No way to re-equip them.

Todd equips the throwing axe +2. THACO 8 and 2 APR.
Your priest of Lathander (Gavin?) has bullets +1.THACO 15 and 1APR.
Branwen has Varscona + shield. THACO 13 and 1 APR.
Kivan equips arrows +1. THACO 4 and 5/2 APR.

Xan and Imoen will sit this fight out as they have magical weapons equipped (Melf meteors?)

Tazok.
Branwen draws Tazok in for a photographic finish, while Todd, Gavin and Kivan use missiles.


Just Sarevok and the battle horror left. Gavin changes to bullets +2 on the assumption that Sarevok may attack us. Kivan takes the boots of speed again and equips an arrow of detonation. He shoots, steps back and hides. He manages to repeat this twice, the third arrow killing the battle horror. Sarevok moves this time.


Sarevok.
Kivan is quicker, and can hide. It is safer to use the final four arrows of detonation away from the party. So it proves, flaming himself with the penultimate arrow. He switches to arrows of ice (6 or so), then biting (38).

At this point Xan summons a hobgoblin and wolf, and we all attack. Branwen switches to bullets +2 so can no longer use Varscona.

Xan is busy summoning, so he and Todd glug oils of speed. Sarevok is killing the summons so Kivan stays close to stop anybody else being targeted.


Xan performs his final summon, an ogre, and starts casting magic missiles. Branwen selects a wand of the heavens.


Imoen has cast slow, Sarevok fails to save. Gavin has cast hold person and Imoen used the wand of paralyzation, neither work. Who cares, a slow Sarevok is far less dangerous. The ogre falls but Kivan can wait a moment.


Unfortunately Sarevok ignores Kivan and heads to the party. We move, then realise he has targeted Todd.

Todd glugs a potion of invulnerability, and a potion of frost giant strength. Then a potion of heroism from Kivan, equips Spiders Bane and attacks. Sarevok is almost dead so Branwen and Gavin use heavenly wands while Xan casts Melf Acid arrow.

Sarevok is tough, taking two more heavenly wand pairs. Kivan has been hitting with arrows but I claim the victory.

Modifié par Gate70, 11 avril 2012 - 09:49 .

[BelgarathMTH]

@Saros: Maybe my problem was that I drank all my potions beforehand, and that PfM scrolls do in fact erase any potion that you drink before casting it. I guess I should have read the PfM and THEN drank potions, huh?

@Gate70, OMG. ROFLMAO! Seriously? ROFLMAO. Well, my friend, you are a grandmaster chess/BG player whereas I am only an amateur join-the-local-chess-club and marvel-at-how-I-lose-to-everybody chess player. I can beat anybody that doesn't know what they're doing at chess, but for anyone with the patience and intellect/memory to study all the book moves and apply book moves without relying on intuition, I get my a** handed to me. Well done, my friend, well done! And with the handicaps I left you with to boot! I find it quite fascinting that you thought to use Kivan's charm animal on the very bats to help you win this? ROFLMAO! You used bats to soak up Semaj's spells? ROLFMAO! Touche, my Master, touche!

Update on Todd the "Absolute Vanilla Cleric", 4/11/2012:

We have cleared the Nashkel Mines, (Mulahey fell to my own Hold Person), obtained Bracers of Archery (to Imoen), defeated Silke (staff +1 to Jaheira), Greyhawk (sword +2 to Minsc), and Shoal and her tormentor (Helm of Resistance to me).

Many interesting points about vanilla:

-the superiority of the paper dolls and avatars continue to amaze me. Chain glinting in the sun. Colored tabards actually appearing on avatars. Dang, I wish they were going to use these works of art in BGEE, but they've already said they're using the bland BG2 artwork. Aww.

-In vanilla, Shoal does not force herself on anybody. She stands there, and you can talk to her or not. Therefore, you have much better control over how you play out her scenario.

-In vanilla, Thalyntyr's flesh golems attack you upon entry. You cannot access Thalyntyr until you can defeat at least one flesh golem. Awesome!

-In vanilla, the sirens of the Sword Cost move inland as soon as you enter the first map. They do not stand on the coastline and wait for you. I just had to run from a roaming siren against whom I knew I had no defense. Again, fascinating!

-I have changed my portrait to AJ's default portrait, just because I think that the face in that portrait most resembles my real life visage, especially with the upturned nose.

-I am starting to remember that sometimes, mods are a very bad thing, because they gradually dilute a lot of the appeal of the original. Overtweaking, "too many cooks spoiling the broth", "copy of a copy of a copy", and all that.

-Included below is a wonderfully defining moment between Jaheira and Khalid that has been completely lost in all the modding. I've never seen it before now. Awesome!

-Minsc's original proficiencies are 2* in large swords, 1* in axe, and 1* in spiked. No bow. He was clearly intended to use his great strength to throw axes if he were to use any ranged weapons at all. Nevertheless, I used his 4th level proficiency gain for bows, so he could also apply that strength for a composite bow if needed.

-I'm sure there's more that I might add in a later edit. I'm not quite done playing tonight.

This is us defeating Greyhawk, done by my hold person spell. In vanilla, victims of hold person glow yellow instead of showing a gyro bubble over their heads:


This is the mod-destroyed lost interchange between Jaheira and Khalid. It was fully voice acted, and quite masterfully by the two actors. It was very, very touching, and a pivotal moment in audience empathy to their relationship:



This is Dynaheir using a Sleep scroll (who says invokers can't cast Sleep?) to win an ogre party battle for us on Shoal's map.



-Did I say I am having a HUGE amount of fun playing vanilla? The game seems perfectly balanced. You cannot pause on inventory screen. You cannot hold more than 20 bullets, bolts, or arrows per quarrel. There are no "bags of holding". I am LOVING the realism, artistry, and master balancing of this. I'm starting to regret that I ever started playing modded BG1!

Todd: Level 4 Cleric
Minsc: Level 4 Ranger (took bow proficiency)
Jaheira: Level 3 Fighter/Level 3 Druid.
Imoen: Level 4 Thief
Dynaheir: Level 3 Mage
Khalid: Level 4 Fighter

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 12 avril 2012 - 12:07 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Oh, BTW, on Gate's transcript of my handicapped BGT final battle, I use BG1 proficiencies in that setup, which he apparently did not have turned on. Imoen and Kivan both had bow proficiencies, and Kivan had two pips in it. Although, from reading his transcript, due to his genius thought of getting Kivan to charm bats one by one, that didn't matter to him. Master vs. Novice. Amazing. 

EDIT: Also, Kivan had the magic bow his wife gave him from the battle with the bounty hunter and her wolfies outside BG. Apparently Gate's setup didn't support that particular magic item, so it poofed. Which compliments his skill even more, since he started out with no bows.

I didn't know that you could right click and loot without dispelling stealth/invisibility. I also would not have thought of using Kivan's stealth to do a series of hit-and-runs, and I certainly would never have thought of using animal charm.

I don't think I have the skill to control the positions of the enemies on the board as though they were chess pieces. Again, amazing.

I keep learning something new every time I read that transcript. Thanks again, Gate.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 12 avril 2012 - 02:15 .

[Serg BlackStrider]

BelgarathMTH wrote...
Many interesting points about vanilla:

-the superiority of the paper dolls and avatars continue to amaze me. Chain glinting in the sun. Colored tabards actually appearing on avatars. Dang, I wish they were going to use these works of art in BGEE, but they've already said they're using the bland BG2 artwork. Aww.

That's why I always use the Infinity Animations - (Restored BG1 Character Animations) mod nowadays and enjoy all the same in the BG2 Engine World

[Gate70]

BelgarathMTH wrote...
-In vanilla, Thalyntyr's flesh golems attack you upon entry. You cannot access Thalyntyr until you can defeat at least one flesh golem. Awesome!

I think in vanilla you can run away from them and speak to Thalantyr, when you get the "I want to shop" dialogue they go blue.

-Did I say I am having a HUGE amount of fun playing vanilla? The game seems perfectly balanced. You cannot pause on inventory screen. You cannot hold more than 20 bullets, bolts, or arrows per quarrel. There are no "bags of holding". I am LOVING the realism, artistry, and master balancing of this. I'm starting to regret that I ever started playing modded BG1!

I know what you mean. Some more for you to check;
- Less inventory slots?
- Less weapon slots?
- Less auto-pause options?
- Different weapon/magic vulnerabilities and resistances for key enemies. e.g. Sarevok, Karoug.
- Different wording by Centeol. Jonoleth not Jon Irenicus.
- Ambush spawns.
- Different spells.
- Unable to dual-wield.
- Some difference around dispel magic. Always works?

You can pause on inventory with multiplayer. Downsides are it is laggier and not sure it plays on modern OS'.

[After5CST]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

@Gate70, OMG. ROFLMAO! Seriously? ROFLMAO. Well, my friend, you are a grandmaster chess/BG player whereas I am only an amateur join-the-local-chess-club and marvel-at-how-I-lose-to-everybody chess player ...I find it quite fascinting that you thought to use Kivan's charm animal on the very bats to help you win this?

Me too.

BelgarathMTH wrote...

I keep learning something new every time I read that transcript. Thanks again, Gate.

+1.  

@Gate: Thank you for the detailed write-up.  Bravo.

Modifié par After5CST, 12 avril 2012 - 10:51 .

[BelgarathMTH]

@Gate, thanks for the tips.

Update on the vanilla cleric, 4/19/2012:

-Finished all the southwest maps, defeated Bassilus (got him with a hold person after failing to silence him, used turn undead to scatter his army, was still a close battle.)

-Used the money from returning the holy symbol of Bassilus to buy myself a suit of full plate.

-finished the Ulcaster Ruins to get a wand of fireballs for Dynaheir. Gave Jaheira Icharys's helmet. It doesn't have any benefits, but she looks awesome in it!

-Here's Dynaheir soloing the cleric-and-archer party in Dragonmaw Pass using two webs and the wand of fireballs. Who says magic-users are weak?



-Gave Minsc leather +2, a composite bow, and began learning the joys of stealth. He spied out a whole map for me, and got Samuel, without our having to waste our time fighting xp-worthless gibbons. Jaheira will now wear the ankheg armor from Nashkel and assist with tanking. Khalid also has pretty decent AC and can assist with tanking, as well as using Greyhawk's sword +2. Minsc can no longer use it effectively as I have sacrificed his AC so he can go stealthy as needed.

-Stopped by the Song of the Morning Temple and hunted vampire wolves to the northeast, for more xp. Dynaheir's webs were very helpful.

-Took Samuel to the FAI. Will start in on the bandit camp next.

I may or may not post anymore updating today. We'll see.

Todd: Level 5 cleric (vanilla level 3 cleric spells are rather limited - only useful ones are dispel, rigid thinking, dispel invisible, remove paralysis. no cure moderate wounds.)
Minsc: Level 5 ranger
Jaheira: Level 4 druid/level 4 fighter
Imoen: Level 5 thief
Khalid: Level 5 fighter
Dynaheir: Level 4 invoker

EDIT: FInished the bandit camp. Very easy as usual using well-placed webs. Reported to Officer Vai, sold bandit scalps, went to FAI and bought purple potions for use against wyverns. Travelled to the first Cloakwood, and will continue there tomorrow. Decided to switch Minsc back to head tanking duty so he could use his 18/93 STR with Grayhawk's sword +2 and a tower shield +1.

Here's a shot of a line by Jaheira I had never heard before:

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 13 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[Blackmalkin]

BelgarathMTH wrote...
-Did I say I am having a HUGE amount of fun playing vanilla? The game seems perfectly balanced. You cannot pause on inventory screen. You cannot hold more than 20 bullets, bolts, or arrows per quarrel. There are no "bags of holding". I am LOVING the realism, artistry, and master balancing of this. I'm starting to regret that I ever started playing modded BG1!

You forgot mentioning the flaming swords. One of the things I found most distasteful in my my first BG 1 conversion mod playthrough was Xan's Moonblade not looking like a flaming sword. The only reason I played TuTu before was the possibillity of playing a wild mage. Now I've found another reason, which is SCS, but I still prefer the original game.

[Blackmalkin]

Update on Dhanushka:

I haven’t been playing much, so I only finished Coakwood. I fought SCS shadow druids for the first time, and found them unimpressive, yet persistent. On the screenshot below it seems that one dead druid is casting two spells at one moment. But in fact there were two of them, only one was chunked. The bear is dead too, by the way – Shari displayed her master thievery and stole all killing blows.



Giant spider ambushes didn’t cause any troubles, as party was usually able to kill all of them before the end of the first round. Drasus’ party was easily defeated with Webs (only one of the mages could fight back, thanks to his Minor Globe). Hareishan and her men attacked before I approached them (thanks to SCS ‘better calls for help’). She was dominated by Melodia (using the Greagan’s Harp). On the screenshot below it looks as if Dire Charm was one of Hareishan’s protections:



It’s interesting that it reads Dire charmed instead of Dominated (item description implies that the harp works as Dominaton spell). What’s more important, is that the charm have interrupted the chain of protections, preventing Minor Globe from appearing (wich I didn’t notice at first). I ordered Hareishan to cast Emotion on her men, and Vaitali to cast a Web. When Hareishan was immobiulized by the Web, I decided to attack her. But when she turned hostile, her Globe suddenly appeared, freeing her (and also rendering her invisible, which is strange, as she should have broken the invisibillity with Emotion spell). Of course, with her men dead or incapacitated she wasn’t much trouble, though she did manage to decrease party’s reputation, as confused Samadarshin killed the cook. Also, Dhanushka triggered the ligtning trap while following the mage, but she drunk a potion of absorbtion, and only some of the unconscious enemies were killed by it.



On the third level, Natasha went down quickly. Fight with Davaeorn almost went tragically wrong, mostly because I forgot about his Web and Stinking Cloud – I thought I won’t need free movement if I don’t want to cast any Webs myself. When Davaeorn’s protections were activated, Shari dispelled his illusion, allowing Dhanushka to fire an arrow of dispelling (one of the two found in Durlag’s Tower). But she missed, despite being elven archer and all. There was no time for another shot, as she was webbed. No one had Ring of Free Action eqipped and for a moment only Grunkh with Spider’s Bane and Melodia (who stood outside Web’s effect) weren’t incapacitated. Battle horrors got to work while Davaeorn was avoiding Grunkh’s attacks with teleports. He also cast one Fireball, but then Dhanushka freed herself and continued with her last action, which was shooting the second dispelling arrow. This time she hit and Davaeorn was dead moments later.



While fightning in the mines I also discovered an interesting bug – magic dispel removes effects of Claw of Kazgaroth (but leaves item equipped).

Party status:
Dhanushka – archer 7, 66 HP, 768 kills
Grunkh – barbarian 7, 72 HP, 336 kills
Samadarshin – fighter 6/cleric 7, 68 HP, 276 kills
Shari – swashbuckler 9, 47 HP, 182
Melodia – skald 9, 52 HP, fav. spell: Friends, 76 kills
Vaitali – sorcerer 8, 35 HP, fav. spell: Sleep, 55 kills

Modifié par Blackmalkin, 13 avril 2012 - 02:18 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Gratz on your progress, Blackmalkin. That was a very exciting battle with Davy.

[BelgarathMTH]

Todd the plain vanilla cleric: FINAL update for this thread, 4/13/2012:

-Today's mission was to tackle the Cloakwood. Kicked Imoen for Coran's bow skills. Immediately got into trouble on a webbed "you have been waylaid" map with ettercaps. Had three strongest people dead, took 20 minutes to solve the inventory puzzle to preserve all our irreplaceable magic items. Had to backtrack all the way to FAI to raise dead and replace artillery.  



-Having Jaheira in our party made the shadow druids turn hostile. Killed the archdruid, who almost got me with uninterruptable hold person. (We "interrupted" him four times, dang it! Must have been scripting.) He's only worth 120 xp. I won't risk a no-reload on him again.)

-Used Coran's stealth to find the dryad while the rest of us stayed back. He tried to backstab her (can you do that with a greatsword or longsword?) and missed. She dire charmed him and dimension doored away. Being alone, Coran just stood there, awed by her beauty, I suppose. The rest of us, now knowing her location, took a very long route around the river bank and avoided her.

-Here's Dynaheir doing her thing with web and fireballs outside the mines:



-Here's Dynaheir doing her thing again against Hareshain and company. Poor Hareshain didn't even get to cast her first spell.




-Here's a couple of rarely seen lines you might enjoy from Coran and Dynaheir:



So, after all this, I bit the dust against Davy when I got caught in a tight five foot corridor by his opening lightning bolt! This was despite my having the boots of grounding and the helm of defense, which I mistakenly thought would protect me from the lightning. And they probably would have, if I had not been so stupid as to run back into a narrow corridor instead of out into a wide open space! Further increasing the feeling of "D'oh!", I forgot to have Dynaheir cast her newly learned Haste spell before running. Perhaps that would have gotten me out of that deadly corridor before the critical moment!

Oh, and BTW, lightning always goes straight to its target inerrantly BEFORE it begins its deadly long path. I keep forgetting this and thinking that if I duck around a corner for safety I can be protected. If a mage successfully casts lightning with you as the target, it WILL hit you and then, and only then, begin bouncing, so if you are targeted and have a second to run, you are best to look for a wide open space where it might bounce away from you after the first strike. Hmmph. "Bouncing Betty," indeed.

I believe I will continue this run in minimal reload now, because I still want to see how the final battle is set up in the vanilla GoG.com version of the game.

Cheers, everyone, and have a great weekend! I plan to spend the whole thing playing BG.

EDIT: How's this for a topper? - I just went back in and reloaded, and had Dynaheir cast Haste. Held Dynaheir and myself back, hoping to draw out that lightning bolt more safely. Hasted Minsc, Jaheira, Coran, and Khalid took out Davy before he could do anything dangerous at all! (He cast his buffs, started the lightning, got interrupted, teleported to the side room, hasted Minsc got to him almost instantly, Jaheira and Coran waited in the main room, he telported back there, Minsc got to him again almost instantly, dead Davy.)  Dang. And I knew that Haste is one of the most important spells in the game! That's probably why the devs put a copy of it on Hareishan.

Rats. One brain fart, and it's over.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 13 avril 2012 - 10:05 .

[Satyricon331]

Thanks for posting the "lost" vanilla lines, Belgarath! Sorry your no-reload ended.