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[Alesia_BH]

 Arlene: Final Update

I'm sad to report that Arlene has fallen to SCS Slythe. She was overmatched here really, but cutting corners didn't help matters.

With his stack of PoIs, Shadow seeking script, and skeleton summoning assistant, Slythe is bound to land a backstab against those who can't assasinate him. Since she can't backstab, Arlene can't assasinate Slythe. And the problem is that she can't reliably survive a Slythe backstab either. There are perhaps ways around this dynamic, but not with the range of tactics I'm willing to use. Slythe and Krystin deserve their victory here.

In the SCS battle Slythe typically takes a Potion of Invisibility early while Krystin boxes the PC in with Skeletons, giving Slythe an excellent backstabing opportunity: It's good team work. (Btw. While it looks like Arlene can move ot the left, Slythe is there actually). 


Arlene hoped to avoid catching a backstab by going Potion of Invisibility->Potion of Firebreath, but this didn't quite work. She survived, but took brutal damage.

Slythe and Krystin repeat the strategy here. 


Arlene  blasted her way out, but she also caught a backstab.


Arlene got her self close to full health with a Potion of Extra Healing, but the next backstab finished her.


While I was excited by the prospect of running Arlene in BGII, I'm unfond of the idea of sending her back to The Keep- especially since I feel Slythe and Krystin earned their victory over her. That's the end for my Halfling lass. 

Rest in peace Arlene.

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 septembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[Serg BlackStrider]

This is really sad news, Alesia...  I did not expected that the lack of backstabbing ability nullifies the power of thieves so drastically... Even when they are more *fighting* type than *ordinary* thieves.

Nevertheless, we will remember Arlene well for her valiant attempt although her run was so short...

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[Alesia_BH]

It has a significant effect. The other thing is that on character concept grounds, I wasn't comfortable with her using damage traps.

When you take backstabs and damage traps away from a thief, what are you left with?

With a Swashbuckler at high levels, you can be left with quite a lot actually. At that point, the ability to put 3 pips in dual-wielding and 2 in a weapon matters -as do the by then substantial THAC0, damage, and AC bonuses- but at lower levels when none of those things are subtantially relevant, you're left with little to work with.

That said, Arlene was fine in her other battles even if she was a bit gimpy. I'm also confident she could have completed SCS Sarevok fight without major difficulty. Arlene was just not well suited for the Slythe and Krystin battle. Low HP max, no arcane defenses, no insta-kill prospects, no critical hit protection: it's not a good formula for that fight.

I've had other characters who have fallen in BGI, but typically they were lapses on my part or glitches: I knew exactly what to do the next time around. Arlene is the first character I've run that felt just flat out beaten.

It is sad. But, not all stories end in triumph. In her character description, I said the road may turn out to be a cruel teacher for Arlene. Apparently it has. Oh well.


Btw. I just went back and looked at Alora's fight against Slythe and Krystin. The opening backstab made a huge difference.
http://social.biowar...dex/3124065/124

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 septembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[Serg BlackStrider]

To live is to learn! Even if in such cruel manner. And the life in Faerun goes on so best of luck with thy next character, whichever you choose! 

BTW, can't you at least try to stun Slythe  with darts as well or is he under some free action effect (modified to protect vs stun)? Or may be dispelling arrows followed by darts (as Alora did vs Krystin)...?

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 18 septembre 2012 - 08:07 .

[Alesia_BH]

Serg BlackStrider wrote...
BTW, can't you at least try to stun Slythe  with darts as well or is he under some free action effect (modified to protect vs stun)? Or may be dispelling arrows followed by darts (as Alora did vs Krystin)...?

Arlene opened with a Dart of Stunning on Slythe. She missed.

After that, he went Potion of Magic Shielding->Potion of Invisibility->Potion of Invisibility->Potion of Invisibility. Arlene never had a window to execute Arrow of Dispelling->Dart of Stunning.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[corey_russell]

Consolations, Alesia. I was trying to think of a possible defense for her, and was thinking about the Bhaal power vampiric drain? Could that have boosted her HP enough to make a difference? I assume you were already using the +2 ring, shield amulet and belt of piercing and a buckler, to make it as hard for Slythe as possible.

Also, if you keep your aura clear, what about Arlene going invisible after the first backstab, heal potion until full, then repeat until Slythe is out of invis potions?

Sorry if you don't want this input Alesia, but it's tough to leave "PC outclassed" statement without a comment for me. Good luck in your next run, in any case.

[Grond0]

Hard luck Alesia. Slythe certainly is a formidable challenge if you're not willing to use cheese (such as Algernon's cloak - that can win that encounter for you in several ways). How about trying something divine next?

[Alesia_BH]

corey_russell wrote...
 I was trying to think of a possible defense for her, and was thinking about the Bhaal power vampiric drain?

Makes sense. And yes: Vampiric Touch would help, but she is a good character so that isn't available.

I assume you were already using the +2 ring, shield amulet and belt of piercing and a buckler, to make it as hard for Slythe as possible.

Lowering AC is a good idea of course. Arlene went with Potion of Defense rather that Shield Amulet- that gives a base of 0 rather than 4. The Claw (wouldn't effect HP max due to her con) and a Potion of MInd Focusing would have been options for further improvement relative to where she was. They were among the cut corner, but they don't change the basic dynamic: given her HP max and lack of Critical Hit protection, she could only really be safe by avoiding getting backstabed altogether. That would require the ability to deal a quick knockout as per Alora's and Alesia's runs. 

Btw. Bucklers don't always provide piercing AC protection, but Arlene's Buckler, Swish-Swash, did.

Also, if you keep your aura clear, what about Arlene going invisible after the first backstab, heal potion until full, then repeat until Slythe is out of invis potions?

That's basically the approach she was using. After the first backstab, she went Potion of Invisibility->Potion of Healing to full health. After the second one she went with a Potion of Extra Healing rather than using her last Potion of Invisbility because she had taken a comparatively small hit that time and he had more PoIs left. Even if she did have more potions of invisibility than him, a critical could chunk her from full health. He also runs and finds Shadows when he is out of Invisbility potions.

Sorry if you don't want this input Alesia, but it's tough to leave "PC outclassed" statement without a comment

I wouldn't be inclined to say that Arlene was outclassed in the sense that she was non-competitive: it's a fight she could certainly win under favorable circumstances. 

I'm basically just acknowledging that Slythe and Krystin had certain comparative advantages that they were scripted to leverage and did leverage. I'm also acknowledging that the battle would entail risk for her: she wasn't in a position to prevent herself from being backstabed, and a backstab had the potential to chunk her from full health. It's not an unwinnable fight: just one they won and deserved to win. 


To be clear, there is a very straighforward way to do it with a Swashbuckler. A level capped, evil Swashbuckler  with 100% in traps could breeze through (Lay 3 traps, hit him with a Potion of Firebreath, use the potion of Firebreath animation to track hi position and thus evade him when he is invisbile, lead him to the traps: done. Then, finish Krystin with Arrow of Dispelling-> Dart of Wounding/Dart of Stunning.). That would work, but that's not Arlene though. And I don't have any interest in playing an evil, trap laying Swashbuckler: I don't know that character.

That last comment may sound odd, but finishing in and of itself isn't something that interests me much. Running F/Ts and such no holds barred it's easy enough to do. My interest is in coming up with a character concept -sticking true to that concept- and then seeing how that character's story ends. Arlene's story ends in the Undercellar: that's fine with me. I'm actually more satisfied with Arlene's run than Alyssa's. Alyssa never really had a character concept and consequently in my mind never really had a story to end one way or another. "Finishing" is pretty empty to me under those circumstances because what was there to finish?

Anyhoo. Thank's for your interest!

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:03 .

[Alesia_BH]

Grond0 wrote...

Hard luck Alesia. Slythe certainly is a formidable challenge if you're not willing to use cheese (such as Algernon's cloak - that can win that encounter for you in several ways). How about trying something divine next?

Thanks for your comments Grond0.

Yeah: Algernon is out of bounds for me- as are some of the engine quirks that could simplify the fight.

I like the idea of going divine. I especially like the idea of going with a single class cleric. I wouldn't expect a victory but it could be fun.

I'll probably start another run fairly soon. I'll go through the portraits, and maybe I'll find a cleric in there.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:48 .

[Jianson]

Would an Oil of Speed and running along the corridors with Detect Illusion on have worked? Or does that not crack invisibility from potions or regular Stealth?

Anyway, a really cool character. I really like the roleplaying aspects and I try to walk a bit on that side myself, but I am not crazy enough to do it solo + no-reload. Solo + no-reload is still too crazy with a power character for me...

'Vanilla' Algernon's is overpowered but I like (and make use of) the Hard Times version. The cloak has only 3 charges with that setup. If you want to recharge it, you need to take it to a store and cough up about 3000 gold (and gold is really scarce for a large part of the game in Hard Times).

Modifié par Jianson, 18 septembre 2012 - 11:26 .

[Alesia_BH]

Jianson wrote...
Would an Oil of Speed and running along the corridors with Detect Illusion on have worked?

She was running an Oil of Speed. I tested whetther having +100% Detect Illusions would make a difference. It did surprisingly little. Activting it causes you to leave Shadows but not break invisibility.

Anyway, a really cool character. I really like the roleplaying aspects and I try to walk a bit on that side myself, but I am not crazy enough to do it solo + no-reload. Solo + no-reload is still too crazy with a power character for me...

Understood. A number of my solo characters have made it pretty far. All of them operate with restrictions and have their own styles that influence tactical choices. Arlene is the first who has run into trouble early and the issue is really just one fight: the SCS Slythe Krystin battle and that comes down to this: if you have a low HP max and no critical hit protection, you need to be able to deal a quick knockout.

In general, it's a matter of striking the right balance of course. Of my post break characters Alastria, Alesia, Ashoka, and Alessandra worked out the best in this regard. 

'Vanilla' Algernon's is overpowered but I like (and make use of) the Hard Times version. The cloak has only 3 charges with that setup. If you want to recharge it, you need to take it to a store and cough up about 3000 gold (and gold is really scarce for a large part of the game in Hard Times).

Makes sense. I'd personally prefer to see Algernon's work once per day rather than be limited charge.

Hard Times interests me though generally: I have downloaded it but can't install it at the moment. 

Anyhoo. Best of luck with your future runs!


A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

Sorry for your loss Alesia. A thief without traps or backstab is a significant handicap IMO. Good luck with your cleric.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:58 .

[Alesia_BH]

 Alo, Assasin

Some of you may remember Alo from my experiment in massive backstab damage.


While she was hastily made for the test, Alo appealed to me somehow and I found myself wanting to run her. With apologies to those who were expecting a single classed Cleric, here she is.

Proficiencies: Daggers, Darts
Mods: Tutu, Tutu Fixpack, SCS, NPC Banter


Alo had two personal items which also describe her character.

Crown of Thorns

There was no overt cruelty in Alo’s childhood: only solitude and private ritual. Whatever signs of darkness there were could be easily explained away- at least by a guardian who wished to think only the best of his ward..

There was one time -and one time only- when Gorion was shaken by Alo. She was sitting under a tree cross-legged with this tangled pile of branches laying on the grass beside her, reading aloud from an ancient book. She then closed her eyes, placed this Crown of Thorns on her head, and began to chant. Gorion didn’t recognize the tongue.

A minute later, Alo’s eyes flashed open. And while she was glaring in Gorion’s direction, her vision pierced through him. Moments later she casually looked away as though she had never seen him: turning her attention to the grass, and then her hand, and then the book; they were all the same to her it seemed.

That evening in a letter to Elminster, Gorion expressed his fears. Elminster was reassuring in reply, but privately concerned.

+1 To Damage
Chant while equipped


Alo’s Little Kit

Blades: a long obsessions for Alo. 
Something about skin parting, flesh seeping: metal untouched-unmoved. 
There is a truth there Alo thinks. She’s just not sure what it is.

Alo doesn’t remember when she started cutting herself. It’s just something she’s always done.

Tiny Cuts once per day

Immune to Fear
+2 Wisdom
Duration 1 Turn 


I'll probably start Alo tomorrow- tomorrow or Friday.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 septembre 2012 - 05:43 .

[Serg BlackStrider]

And I wish Alo all the best in her travels, Alesia! Her beauty (and I don't see her Charisma score accurately reflects her appearance here, at least for my old goth rocker's taste...) will definitely  dupe her enemies right into their demise! :happy:


I'm pretty sure that Arlene will be avenged even if this is not Alo's primary intention.

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 19 septembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[corey_russell]

Good luck Alesia_BH. I notice she is human - is she dualing to cleric at some point? if so when?

[Alesia_BH]

Serg BlackStrider wrote...
(and I don't see her Charisma score accurately reflects her appearance here, at least for my old goth rocker's taste...)

I can see how her portrait would appeal to a guy with "goth rocker" tastes. But if you were to meet her in person, she'd be virtually mute with a vacant stare. You'd also get a not-so-subtle sense that she might casually eviserate you without having any feelings about it whatsoever.

Then again, you might like that in a girl...


@Corey- It will be nice to have the option of dualing her, but I doubt I actually will. My Bounty Hunter is a Human with an intelligence of 18, but she has never dualed to a Mage: Alo will probably end up like that.

The main issue with dualing her is that I can't imagine her giving up blades...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 20 septembre 2012 - 12:29 .

[Alesia_BH]

Btw. I'm actually tempted to reserve Alo for a later date now. I'm interested in her, but it seems to me others would prefer a non-thief.

[Grond0]

I'm not working today, so thought I would see how far I can get in a game in one day. I will roll up a shorty berserker as being the character type that is probably quickest to play with (as it needs much less preparation time than thieves and spell casters).

By the way Hal the Oversight monk is still out there somewhere in the middle of his meal. Now that Gate70's run with Grunn has finished Hal may well start making progress again soon.

Edit: @Alesia.  I would suggest you just play whatever character most interests you.  Why not write a bit of background for a cleric and then see whether you still feel that Alo would be preferable?

Modifié par Grond0, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:07 .

[Serg BlackStrider]

Alesia_BH wrote...
I can see how her portrait would appeal to a guy with "goth rocker" tastes. But if you were to meet her in person, she'd be virtually mute with a vacant stare. You'd also get a not-so-subtle sense that she might casually eviserate you without having any feelings about it whatsoever.
Then again, you might like that in a girl... 

Well... that is definitely not my kind of person...  But I do like her appearance, that's for sure.

Btw. I'm actually tempted to reserve Alo for a later date now. I'm interested in her, but it seems to me others would prefer a non-thief.

Truth to be told, it would be interesting to see how pure cleric will fare. Without thief's tricks (particularly UAI...) and mage's defensive buffs... 

Modifié par Serg BlackStrider, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:12 .

[Grond0]

I started my berserker, but soon hit a snag.  About 40 minutes in he was at level 6 and had just raged through Sil and the sirenes.  I thought I had put the game on pause when my son got up, but apparently not and Petty failed to triumph against a flesh golem.  I'll restart him when Bobby's gone to school ...

[Grond0]

This is getting ridiculous.  About 30 minutes in and Petty had just arrived at the basilisk area.  I turned round to answer a question from my wife and the game ended - presume he got stoned.  Should be all alone in the house shortly so no more excuses ...
Edit: decided with so much time having already passed that I would try the same idea another day.

Modifié par Grond0, 20 septembre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Alesia_BH]

Grond0 wrote...
 I turned round to answer a question from my wife.....presume he got stoned.

So in other words, you're getting stoned behind your wife's back.

Shame on you. 

[Alesia_BH]

I'm considering a dwarven follower of Marthammor Duin named Abigail. Thinking about designing a kit for her.

Thoughts on what a Volamtar kit might look like?

Btw. Some info on Abigail's deity.
http://www.savage-la...AMMOR_DUIN.html

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 20 septembre 2012 - 02:06 .

[corey_russell]

Tough breaks there Grond0. Sounds like you need one of those new devices, Real-Life-Seepage-Restrainers.

[Alesia_BH]

Abigail, Cleric

Ok. I'm ready to introduce my Cleric: Abigail follower of Marthammor Duin.


Proficiencies: Slings, Hammers

Character Description: Dwarven though she may be, Abigail wasn’t born for a life of the rock: winding roads and open skies are the things that speak to her. It shouldn’t come as a surprise then that she found Marthammor Duin early. She honors him, but more than that, she honors what he stands for- as well as the prospects of a life in his footsteps. She is a playful lass awed by the vastness of the world. She hopes to walk every foot of it.


Personal Item: Abigail has one personal item. She may receive others from her deity later in her adventures.


Wherever I May Roam

+ 1 Movement Rate Bonus
20% Cold Resistance
Cast Friends 1/Day

Mods: Tutu, TutuFix, SCS, NPC Banter

Wish her luck (you asked for her...). 


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 20 septembre 2012 - 03:18 .