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[corey_russell]

Alesia_BH wrote...

corey_russell wrote...

Personally, I think the odds of success would increase with a party e.g., oh a surge held the mage - well party can protect/unhold him etc. Minimal buffs on self might help too, so that surges target enemies and not yourself, let the cleric buff ya and use equipment when possible. Just my 2 cents...

I agree. The odds of success could definitely increase in party play- especially if you held the wild mage out of the action in most fights and limited his or her use of spells.

I hear what you are saying, and agree, from a tactical point of view (limiting use of spells) is probably very sound. However, from a RP point of view, it makes no sense to me. My character chose to be a mage, granted a wild one but still a mage, and yet he restricts casting spells? I've even heard people say not to cast spells at all and use scrolls/wands...well why bother being a wild mage then? Might as well be a bard, right? At least then I can do that and wear chain mail.

Therefore, when I play a wild mage, I WILL be casting spells, damn the consequences. I might not beat Melissan, but I'll have fun right? And if I weren't going to cast spells, why am I a mage? I should be a fighter or something...

[Alesia_BH]

corey_russell wrote...
I hear what you are saying, and agree, from a tactical point of view (limiting use of spells) is probably very sound.

Yes. You could probably get one through taking a chess like approach with the PC wild mage viewed as king- to be protected more so than deployed in combat. 

I've even heard people say not to cast spells at all and use scrolls/wands...well why bother being a wild mage then?

That's basically why I don't play wild mages: the tactically sound approach is unfun. 

Therefore, when I play a wild mage, I WILL be casting spells, damn the consequences. I might not beat Melissan, but I'll have fun right?

That's a fine attitude. I'll be rooting for you. And I hope you'll have fun irrespective of the outcome.

Best,

A.


Btw. I've started fiddling with a judicious wild mage (one who doesn't cast spells unless the risk-reward tradeoff is favorable). She's finished her early game chores and is nearly ready to begin the story line encounters. I'm undecided at the moment, but I may post on her.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2013 - 04:21 .

[corey_russell]

Coremonk II the solo Monk - FINAL BG 1 Update!

It was time to deal with Cythandria. Melee seemed dangerous, but running all over the building felt unsatisfying. So decided to take advantage of my vanilla EasyTutu install. With the BG 2 engine, minus fixpack, monks are allowed to use wands. While D&D 2nd ed. may not allow that, as far as I am concerned, I am playing Baldur's Gate, not D&D. And since the developers declined to change this, even with the official patch it's good enough for me.

Therefore, I summoned some monsters, buffed and used wand of heavens on the summoned ogres and some +1 darts on Cythandria - she surrendered and I accepted it, since I was at the level cap.

While buffs were running, I quickly ran to the Undercellar via sewers. I didn't see a fair way to beat Slythe, at least not reliably, so summoned some friends, cloaked and walked forward and sent the monsters after Slythe. I then backed off and waited to see what would happen. Ironically Slythe was NOT killed by my monsters - but instead by Krystin's cloudkill! Once Krystin took maximum damage from her own cloudkill, Coremonk II killed her by a strike from the shadows.

I was worried a bit about the Duchal Palace fight - I can't tank with no armor, I can't haste either and as a matter of principle I never lead dopplegangers to other areas - it takes me out of the immersion. So for lack of good ideas, I summoned some monster friends again from the monster wand, buffed to the max then approached close to belt. Apparently I was justified in my concerns for DPS (damage per second) - Liia died before I had finished killing the first doppleganger I attacked! This was ridiculous, so for the rest of fight spammed wand of heavens and this worked better and success! Whew...

I used pro magic scroll and invis potion to skip maze and Undercity party. Time for the final battle with my half-brother...

I did lots of buffs then did fireball and necklace of missiles to open the battle. At first only Angelo and Sarevok came - Angelo for some reason wanted to enter in melee with Coremonk II so I obliged him - Angelo quickly slain and I still have my buffs!


However, the rest of the battle. I could try to describe in detail everything I did but it really doesn't matter. In a nutshell, even with haste boots Coremonk II could NOT outrun Sarevok (who was hasted of course, since I have no way to get rid of it). This meant slinging was impossible, as well as hiding around a pillar (which I did try many times, all in vain). I couldn't even get enough lead to quaff a heal potion. Also too boot, my pro magic scroll didn't protect me from the skull traps in the floor, so that certainly didn't help me either. Sarevok eventually got the killing blow.

If I had to do it again, I would spam the monster summoning and and sling Sarevok. But I couldn't afford more wands, I was broke! I only had 2600 gold left at the end...



Coremonk - 61 HP, 468 Kills, Greater Basilisk

Back to Candlekeep...

[Alesia_BH]

corey_russell wrote...
Back to Candlekeep...

Condolences Corey.

Good luck with your next run!

[BBMorti]

Alesia_BH wrote...

corey_russell wrote...

Personally, I think the odds of success would increase with a party e.g., oh a surge held the mage - well party can protect/unhold him etc. Minimal buffs on self might help too, so that surges target enemies and not yourself, let the cleric buff ya and use equipment when possible. Just my 2 cents...

I agree. The odds of success could definitely increase in party play- especially if you held the wild mage out of the action in most fights and limited his or her use of spells.

In vanilla party play you could probably get a PC wild mage through the adventure without ever having him or her cast a spell. Were I set on getting a wild mage through, I'd probably take an approach of that ilk. The wild mage would use wands, scrolls, items and the like on an as needed basis and perhaps cast a spell or two in situations where it would be unambiguosly safe. His or her companions would do almost all of the work. 

(Of course, that wouldn't be much fun which is in part why I've never played a wild mage.)

When I said the odds seem low to me, I was refering to the prospects of a solo wild mage casting unrestrained throughout the entire adventure in a G3 install. I haven't run numbers, but I suspect that the chances of a success are far worse than some may assume.  

Best,

A.

Hm, do you know if spell shield can stop negative spell surges?

[corey_russell]

BBMorti wrote...

Alesia_BH wrote...

corey_russell wrote...

Personally, I think the odds of success would increase with a party e.g., oh a surge held the mage - well party can protect/unhold him etc. Minimal buffs on self might help too, so that surges target enemies and not yourself, let the cleric buff ya and use equipment when possible. Just my 2 cents...

I agree. The odds of success could definitely increase in party play- especially if you held the wild mage out of the action in most fights and limited his or her use of spells.

In vanilla party play you could probably get a PC wild mage through the adventure without ever having him or her cast a spell. Were I set on getting a wild mage through, I'd probably take an approach of that ilk. The wild mage would use wands, scrolls, items and the like on an as needed basis and perhaps cast a spell or two in situations where it would be unambiguosly safe. His or her companions would do almost all of the work. 

(Of course, that wouldn't be much fun which is in part why I've never played a wild mage.)

When I said the odds seem low to me, I was refering to the prospects of a solo wild mage casting unrestrained throughout the entire adventure in a G3 install. I haven't run numbers, but I suspect that the chances of a success are far worse than some may assume.  

Best,

A.

Hm, do you know if spell shield can stop negative spell surges?

Keep in mind spell shield itself can cause a surge - but perhaps by a sequencer?

[Alesia_BH]

BBMorti wrote...
Hm, do you know if spell shield can stop negative spell surges?

It shouldn't. That said, spell shield foils a lot of things that it shouldn't- including Adalon's drow illusion and the addition of special abilities in the pocket plane. It may very well work- it strikes me as worth testing, at least. 

Hold on...

Ok. I just ran some tests. It appears that wild surges bypass spell shield.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2013 - 04:09 .

[Alesia_BH]

corey_russell wrote...
Keep in mind spell shield itself can cause a surge - but perhaps by a sequencer?

Casting sequencer courts a wild surge.

I suspect that contingency may be cast without surge risk but I don't have a large enough sample size to say for certain.

(Someone with direct wild mage experience should feel free to chime in here.) 

EDIT: I'm becoming increasingly convinced that you can cast spells via contingencies without surge risk. It also appears as though you can cast contingency via the dweomers without a surge occuring. (Both moves are lame and exploit-y to my mind, however.) 

EDIT II: You can cast chain via the dweomers three times -allowing you to cast nine spells without surge risk- and then cast a fourth chain through a dweomer with this one including limited wish. Selecting "I wish that spells that I have cast would be restored that I might cast them again!" can refresh the four previously cast dweomers. You may then rinse and repeat.

(In other words you can cast a whole lot of spells without surge risk. It's just awkward and exploit-y.)

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2013 - 05:46 .

[Serg BlackStrider]

Commiserations on Coremonk's failure, Corey... Looks like a wild mages are in favor nowadays...

[Silver-star]

In my experience, you can use Nahal's Reckless Dweomer to succesfully cast sequencers, triggers, and contingencies. This casts the spell as usual, and does not trigger a wild surge...until you cast your very next spell which is a %100 wild surge!

I think the game sets '%100 wild surge chance for the next spell' when you activate NRD. However, if you used the NRD to cast sequencer, trigger or contingency, it does not count. Otherwise, you could have an area effect sequencer/contingency for everyone, which would be weird, even for wild magic standarts. But the '%100 wild surge' is set on your character after you cast NRD, and any next normal spell you cast will result in a wild surge. Spells released by spell triggers/sequencers can result in a wild surge, too! (also Bhaal powers, and priest spells if you have any)

A lvl 7 wild mage can abuse this if he somehow procures a spell trigger scroll and copies it into his spellbook. (Secret of Bonehill mod has notoriously generous high level scrolls!) Or a contingency. Or, gods forbid, a chain contingency! He can cast them all via NRD succesfully. So he can start every major battle in BG1 with a contingency:mirror image, stoneskin etc. and triple fireballs spell sequencers.

Provided that he is careful that his next spell after a trigger/contingency incantation is safe:Have a simple magic missile for the purpose of releasing the wild surge-don't cast it on yourself (ofcourse!), don't cast it near your party (have them a few screens away), don't cast it in battle (so you won't get held, polymorphed or silenced) cast it on a non-valid target (item on the ground maybe) or a squirrel/horse/deer/cow with no innocent npcs around, and RUN in case it turns out to be a fireball or demonic gate. Wild surge harmlessly released, and you have an active and succesful contingency/sequencer/trigger.

Modifié par Silver-star, 11 octobre 2013 - 06:02 .

[corey_russell]

Lucky the Wild Mage entering Trilogy No-Reload Challenge...
Traveling with: Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, Imoen

Well Lucky has made his way past all the assassins from Friendly Arm Inn to Nashkel, so I am entering him. While he probably won't live up to his name being a wild mage, I decided to name him Lucky to see how far positive thinking can take him...

I will be casting spells, just like any other mage, BUT I will avoid targeting myself unless desperate. Thus most, if not all will be enemy target spells. Since I would like to fight basilisks and also might want someone to go invisible, I will recruit a 2nd mage, since they can do those kind of buffs much more safely. I pretty much never have 2 mages in a party (in BG 1), guess this is the exception.

The only thing notable that Lucky is done is to sell the ring of Wizardry - he wanted his fighters to be well equipped so they can defend him - plus he doesn't really need extra chances to do a wild surge.... Oh, and I guess too he killed Firebeard in Candlekeep with blindness. And that he has had zero surges so far.



Party Status:
Khalid, 13 HP, Ogrillion
Jaheira, 21 HP, Bandit
Minsc, 11 HP, Neira
Imoen, 8 HP, Karlat
Lucky, 18 HP, Firebeard Elvenhair

Modifié par corey_russell, 11 octobre 2013 - 06:02 .

[Alesia_BH]

Silver-star wrote...

In my experience, you can use Nahal's Reckless Dweomer to succesfully cast sequencers, triggers, and contingencies. This casts the spell as usual, and does not trigger a wild surge...until you cast your very next spell which is a %100 wild surge!

Tested and confirmed for sequencers and triggers in addition to contingencies.

Provided that he is careful that his next spell after a trigger/contingency incantation is safe:Have a simple magic missile for the purpose of releasing the wild surge-don't cast it on yourself (ofcourse!), don't cast it near your party (have them a few screens away), don't cast it in battle (so you won't get held, polymorphed or silenced) cast it on a non-valid target (item on the ground maybe) or a squirrel/horse/deer/cow with no innocent npcs around, and RUN in case it turns out to be a fireball or demonic gate. Wild surge harmlessly released, and you have an active and succesful contingency/sequencer/trigger.

Makes sense.

Cheers,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2013 - 06:27 .

[The Potty 1]

In BG2 I only allowed my PC wild mage to cast prebuff spells, typically summons. If it worked, we entered a fight with an overpowered summon like a fire elemental or hakeshar. If it failed we cleaned up and tried again, or rested. One of many characters that never even made it as far as Spellhold

[The Potty 1]

Smoke2 repeated everything above, added the spiders, and killed Mulaney without incedent. Imoen's wand of missiles made this a doddle, disrupting anything he tried to cast.The revenant followed, cheesily using doors to make this trivial. On to the amazons. Backstabbed Teckla to very injured, ran NE and hid, 3 followed, so I backstabbed the cleric which remained. Killed her Mulaney-style. I then returned to the three, finished off Teckla, and .. died to the second cleric.

I'm gonna continue regardless, so don't expect much in the way of posting.

[corey_russell]

@Potty: sorry to hear of the Amazon's success - long line of no-reloaders have went down there, so you're in good company. Since you are continuing, I hope you get to enjoy your run.

[Grond0]

Tlaloc - wild mage (update 4)

While I've been sorting out a few demons in my computer I see there's been a positive outbreak of wild mage action in the Sword Coast (good luck Corey, Alesia)!  I'll try and move Tlaloc on quickly to leave space for others to get their fireballs going.

He had no problem in the Nashkel mine or bandit camp (first use of cloudkill there) and moved on rapidly through the Cloakwood.  Webs and cloudkill also made short work of Drasus & co and he moved on down to Daveorn.  The wand of frost blasted the battle horrors and a green scroll protected him from Daveorn's assault - leaving her open to attack by some summoned ogres.

Tlaloc has just arrived in Baldur's Gate - already at 165k XP.

Modifié par Grond0, 11 octobre 2013 - 03:30 .

[corey_russell]

Lucky the Wild Mage - Update 2

Lucky now has the group he intends to keep: Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Imoen, Dynaheir. No deaths yet and no surges. Rescue of Dynaheir went without incident. We will return to the fortress and clear it out. We've been in a few ambushes - at level 1 we ran away but now that most of us are level 2 or higher, we are holding our ground. Jaheira and Khalid tank, and Minsc uses a long bow, despite not being proficient with one.

Modifié par corey_russell, 11 octobre 2013 - 04:35 .

[Alesia_BH]

Grond0 wrote...
While I've been sorting out a few demons in my computer I see there's been a positive outbreak of wild mage action in the Sword Coast (good luck Corey, Alesia)! 

Thanks. But I 've retired my wild one.

I was certain she would make it through BG1 and equally certain that she wouldn't survive BGII. That left little room for suspense.

I suppose she'd have a chance of completing the SoA portion if I abused the dweomer/chain mechanic, but that doesn't interest me. I'd rather just play something else.

Anyhoo. Best of luck to the remaining wild ones. (You're braver than I am!)

A. 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 11 octobre 2013 - 09:07 .

[Grond0]

Tlaloc - wild mage (update 5)

Tlaloc has made it through BG1 to uphold the honour of wild mages.

He went quickly through the city and Candlekeep, gathering tomes - no trouble with any of the combats there.

Slythe failed to kill even one of the elite gnolls facing him before being stunned.

At the palace darts of stunning and wand of paralysation were more effective than last time.  Even though all the dopplegangers ignored Tlaloc he was able to stun enough to save both the dukes - here 4 of the dopplegangers are stunned and the other 2 running.

Tlaloc sneaked through the maze to find Sarevok and realised he hadn't got a sling to draw him out at long range.  He tried using a wand of paralysation, but Sarevok ignored that, so he resorted to a magic missile scroll.  Rather than just keep a continuous stream of monsters going this time I decided to try and catch Sarevok in a web.  An opening web + malison was followed up with 3 webs by scroll, 2 cloudkills and 2 skull traps (a third attempt surging).  Sarevok broke free at this point, still only injured, and Tlaloc ran him round for a bit until the cloudkills finished and then returned to generating monsters and magic missiling him until he gave up.

Edit: surges noted during Tlaloc's journeys were as follows (I think I probably missed a few as well):

Surges while unprotected
What's in pocket?
Squirrels everywhere
Projectile changed
Gated demon
Wrong spell cast
Blinded
Slowed
Lightning bolt
Weapons glow
Held (saving throw allowed)

Surges while chaos shield active
Spell cast normally
Lightning bolt
Duration halved
Combat ready

Modifié par Grond0, 11 octobre 2013 - 07:57 .

[corey_russell]

Nice work with Tlaloc, Grond0! Here's hoping this wild mage makes it through BG 2 this time...

[Serg BlackStrider]

Well done, Grond0!

[Alesia_BH]

Congrats Grond0!

[Aasim]

+1 for Wild mages. Congratulations.

[Gate70]

Congratulations Grond0.

Roliahv has fought his way into Durlags Tower against the odds. "The odds" being when Neera and Baeloth were both told to aim for the red target with their Magic Missiles, hitting Roliahv by mistake (I'd forgotten I'd positioned him the far side of a doom guard so Rasaad and Dorn could join in more easily). Long red circles and faces all round.

The tower is soon under our control, detect invisibility being wasted on Daital but remove magic proving more effective. Kirinhale charms Roliahv despite Improved Invisibility and everybody is relieved he has entered her chamber (tch) alone. She teleports away and turns invisible as Imoen sneaks in. We treat her to a series of spells (fireball, immune. detect invisibility fail, remove magic fail, dispel magic fail) before Roliavh plays bait again. He races away, saving against her health drain as Imoen lands a backstab for 44. Kirinhale panics which gives us plenty of time to close in and a moment or two later she is dead.

All done then. Might as well see what the dwarves have collected in their wine cellar...

[Grond0]

Gate70 wrote...
Roliahv has fought his way into Durlags Tower against the odds. "The odds" being when Neera and Baeloth were both told to aim for the red target with their Magic Missiles, hitting Roliahv by mistake (I'd forgotten I'd positioned him the far side of a doom guard so Rasaad and Dorn could join in more easily). Long red circles and faces all round.

Interesting.  Just in case it's not obvious I'll mention that BGEE uses selection circles that have the colour of the character's main clothing.  If that's red then ...

And thanks for the good wishes everyone.  I'll go and see now if Tlaloc can put them to good use in BG2 ...

Modifié par Grond0, 12 octobre 2013 - 03:54 .