@ Wise,
My experience is a party of at least 3 should be able to slay those dopps always as long as you focus down the mages and shamans before all else.
Cheers!
I am playing, or rather was playing a non-violent solo player. I.e. He wasn't allowed to kill anyone. He got as far as Drasus but everyone in that battle seemed to save against being charmed. 
Perhaps I should have just avoided them, but I wanted the boots.
I have the earlier version of Improved Dopplegangers installed. In my install, all the Dopes are identical. They get infinite insta-casts of Haste + Blur + Mirror Image. They cast Horror and their weapons apply Confusion on hit with no save. It's easy enough for the PC to foil Horror and Confusion, but the Dukes and the Fist invariably get confused which can make a mess of things. I've tried the updated fight, and I find the newer version more predictable. I'm not inclined to say that one is harder than the other, but the worst case scenario in the older version is nasty. Sometimes the fight is trivial. At other times, it's virtually unwinnable for a solo low APR character with limited special abilities. Amelie found herself in one of those no win situations. Belt was dead before any of the Dopes had been seriously injured. Liia fell soon after. Amelie only got a few attack roll in. It was over in a flash. That can happen in my setup. It's rare, but it happens. In three experimental replays -with the exact same buffs and the exact same strategy- Amelie prevailed without difficulty. It just wasn't her day.
Anyhoo. I may give her another shot. We'll see.
Best,
A.
Have you tried using the wand of sleep?
Or do they save against it?
In Vanilla it is an excellent ploy.
For those who haven't realised it. Sapper Steelskin is now dead killed by Drasus.
I liked the run though. 
Why are you ambivalent about Swashies?
They're mid-tier at best in BG1. They're basically just thieves who can't backstab. A suitably levelled BG2 Swashbuckler is something more, no doubt, but they do have to be coddled in BG1.
I'm sure they can be fun in BG2, but looking ahead, I forsee problems for Amelie. I'm not entirely sold on the canonical Swashbuckler playing style. The raison d'etre of the kit is dual-wielding with a rocking AC. That should work fine in mid-SoA, but in ToB I'd be reluctant to melee fight without arcane spells or, in the alternative, a high resistance setup. AC is relevant in ToB- it can help immensely. But it is best used as a supplement to a resistance or spell based approach. In the endgame, I suspect I'd end up range fighting, melee fighting under Time Trap time stop, and deploying scrolls in major fights. That's fine, I guess. But that's something any rogue can do. Why bother with a Swash?
It seems to me that the sweet spot with a Swashbuckler would be mid-late SoA. But as a soloist, that's the least interesting part of the adventure. And even in that sweet spot there is an issue: SCS vampires sans Azuredge, AoP, or iMoD. That sounds un-fun.
Of course, this is all speculation. It's hard to say without actually trying. I have my doubts though.
Best,
A.
Have you tried using the wand of sleep?
That won't work with Improved Doppelgangers installed: their levels are too high.
Sorry to hear about Sapper, Wise.
I'm glad you enojyed yourself though!
Best,
A.
The Ducal Palace can be sketchy for any solo character, but I agree that a solo Thief is extra difficult there. I've been reasonably successful with extreme potion buffs, but even then there are no guarantees in my experience.
On a sidenote, because the following doesn't apply to solo Thieves, has anyone ever tried casting Invisibility on Liia Janneth? In both my BGT and BGEE installs she doesn't seem to do anything (fight, cast spells, even move). A bit cheap maybe, but so is the game in assuming Charname dies if Belt and Janneth die.
Alesia, I understand your point re: Swashbucklers. I hadn't looked at it that way. My SCS/Ascension ToB knowledge is too limited for me to be able to estimate the viability of a AC-centered approach complemented by the occasional scroll (PfMW, Stoneskin etc) and optimal gear.
Btw I also prefer kits whose special perks/abilities are actually felt when one plays them. Would you give our beloved Alesia a new opportunity? Bounty Hunters, we both agree, are amazing
Wise, my condolences for Sapper. I hope you can find another fun concept for a new playthrough.
The Ducal Palace can be sketchy for any solo character, but I agree that a solo Thief is extra difficult there. I've been reasonably successful with extreme potion buffs, but even then there are no guarantees in my experience.
Agreed. Solo rogues always feel sketch in that fight- even if the success rate is high. I've lost two: Amelie and a M/T, who had made the mistake of casting Remove magic from her book rather than a scroll and consequently failed to dispel the Dopes Haste effects and MIs. I gave the M/T a second go at BG1 and she succeeded. That ended up being a successfully Trilogy run.
I typically dispel the haste effect and then beat the dopes down under heavy potion buffs. Amelie should have been able to execute that -and she was able to execute that in replay- but she never had a chance the first time. She missed with her first two dispelling arrows. The third one landed, but Belt died before she could even target a second one. Liia fell within a round or two. The whole fight couldn't have taken more than three or four rounds. It was outrageous. There really wasn't anything Amelie could have done.
Alesia, I understand your point re: Swashbucklers. I hadn't looked at it that way. My SCS/Ascension ToB knowledge is too limited for me to be able to estimate the viability of a AC-centered approach complemented by the occasional scroll (PfMW, Stoneskin etc) and optimal gear.
I think it would be viable, just kind of gimpy- like a blade without any spell slots or a F/T without Hardiness. I'd have to try it to be sure though.
I am aware that a Swashbuckler has higher damage potential than other dual-wielding rogues, but that's not super-exciting to me. If survival depends on doing massive damage immediately, that means I've screwed up. Victory should be inevitable, not urgent.
On the positive side, I can't think of a particular encounter in my install that would stop a Swashbuckler. I can't say that for every class.
Again, I'd really have to try it to be sure. Maybe I will.
Would you give our beloved Alesia a new opportunity? Bounty Hunters, we both agree, are amazing
That's been on my mind. But I really need to test my new install first. The last two times I tried to update SCS something didn't work. I'd hate to have an Alesia run marred by a broken install. I'll probably give Alesia a chance once I'm convinced that this setup works.
Honestly, I created Amelie with the understanding that she'd make a good scout.
Best,
A.
If survival depends on doing massive damage immediately, that means I've screwed up. Victory should be inevitable, not urgent.
Very well-said.
That's been on my mind. But I really need to test my new install first. The last two times I tried to update SCS something didn't work. I'd hate to have an Alesia run marred by a broken install. I'll probably give Alesia a chance once I'm convinced that this setup works.
Yay!! 
Re the palace fight, that's the main reason I tend to manipulate Bhaal abilities to get horror. Typically a couple of the dopplegangers are sent running by that, which can easily make the difference between a winnable and unwinnable fight with a thief. It is also possible to set 7 traps there, which can get you off to a good start in the contest.
In relation to swashbucklers I don't think you're giving them enough credit. I agree they need looking after in BG1 and early BG2, but they do eventually become a powerhouse. The availability of WW in HLAs also means that they do have the opportunity to fight in a style that no other thief can, providing the distinctiveness you're looking for in this thief kit. It's pretty easy to get their AC to the minimum allowed by the game, which means even in ToB it is possible to use a melee-centred approach to combat without even using any scrolls (or, indeed, potions). For other types of fights you can use equipment to get MR to over 100%, which again allows a melee approach in some situations where that would be fatal for most solo characters.
As for vampires, by mid to late-SoA I would expect a solo thief to be picking up HLAs, so level drain shouldn't be a problem.
I for one would love to see you play a non-arcane character Alesia, I mean with your skill and knowledge of protection spells, and of course after your last playthrough which was epic, an arcane pc is less interesting to me to watch than say, for example, a swashbuckler.
Cheers!
I am playing, or rather was playing a non-violent solo player. I.e. He wasn't allowed to kill anyone. He got as far as Drasus but everyone in that battle seemed to save against being charmed.
Perhaps I should have just avoided them, but I wanted the boots.
Ah I forgot about that, of course. I also think the boots are a must. What you could do is lure only drasus and (dire)charm him, then make him fight his fellows.
Cheers!
Ah I forgot about that, of course. I also think the boots are a must. What you could do is lure only drasus and (dire)charm him, then make him fight his fellows.
Cheers!
I didn't have dire charm. Too low a level I think. Isn't dire charm a level 3 spell?
Ah I forgot about that, of course. I also think the boots are a must. What you could do is lure only drasus and (dire)charm him, then make him fight his fellows.
Cheers!
I think that if I had sneaked through and taken him on the way back, I might have had more success. The alternative would have been to forget about them. Davaeorn has a pair of boots of quickness in his bag in this set-up.
Congrats to Eren, Scintilla, Dyara, and the duo of Deana & Rhunn! And Alesia and Grimwald, sorry to hear that your characters did not get on the train to Amn...
Pter has only just entered the Cloakwood... but at least he's not dead yet 
On a sidenote, because the following doesn't apply to solo Thieves, has anyone ever tried casting Invisibility on Liia Janneth? In both my BGT and BGEE installs she doesn't seem to do anything (fight, cast spells, even move). A bit cheap maybe, but so is the game in assuming Charname dies if Belt and Janneth die.
I've used Otiluke's Resilient Sphere for my solo F/M/T some years ago (original, vanilla BG1, no 'noreload' but insane). It had worked really good.
I've tested this in BGEE and it didn't work - not sure what went wrong. Liia had survived but still it was game over. Maybe the doppelgangers went down to fast, the sphere was still active and the dialog after fight did not fire properly. Or perhaps casting OSR is now a hostile action?
At least in my BGEE Liia attacks the doppelgangers so Invisibility might not help (but perhaps it makes the dopplegangers lose her as their target).
Re the palace fight, that's the main reason I tend to manipulate Bhaal abilities to get horror. Typically a couple of the dopplegangers are sent running by that, which can easily make the difference between a winnable and unwinnable fight with a thief. It is also possible to set 7 traps there, which can get you off to a good start in the contest.
Of course. But those tactics are both out of bounds for me. I'm not willing to break character to manipulate reputation and thus Bhaalspawn powers. I also don't let my characters leave the Palace once they've submitted their invitations. Resting multiple times to reach the trap limit generally feels dirty to me. Amelie used her two traps.
My characters' success rate in the SCS Improved Doppelganger Palace Fight is very high. Amelie's fight was basically a freak occurrence. It's something that you would have had to have seen to understand. In experiemental replays she won with ease three consecutive times without changing her strategy. Other characters have had a 100% success rate using the approach Amelie employed (arrow of dispelling->potion buffed melee). There really isn't any need to use tactics that I would find unsatisfying.
In relation to swashbucklers I don't think you're giving them enough credit. I agree they need looking after in BG1 and early BG2, but they do eventually become a powerhouse. The availability of WW in HLAs also means that they do have the opportunity to fight in a style that no other thief can, providing the distinctiveness you're looking for in this thief kit. It's pretty easy to get their AC to the minimum allowed by the game, which means even in ToB it is possible to use a melee-centred approach to combat without even using any scrolls (or, indeed, potions). For other types of fights you can use equipment to get MR to over 100%, which again allows a melee approach in some situations where that would be fatal for most solo characters.
Our difference in opinion here is largely due to differences in playing style. Our basis of comparison may be different as well.
I'm comparing swashbucklers to blades and F/Ts. Given my playing style, a blade, who has Abjuration spells, would be in a better postion to dual wield safely than a swashbuckler. An F/T with Foebane + the Defender + Jan Jansen's Adventurewear + Hardiness would also be in a better position to dual-wield safely while having fighter HLAs and backstabs.
Given my install and playing style, in the late game a Swasbuckler's comparative advantage would actually be range fighting. Could a swashbuckler work? Absolutely. Earlier I mentioned that I can't think of any encounter that would stop a swasbuckler. Low AC dual-wield melee fighting against lesser foes, Time Trap->meleeing the dragons, range fighting the Ascension Five, and finishing Mel using Abjuration school scroll buffs is a recipe for success in Ascension. I don't doubt that they're powerful in BG2. Again, my only problem with a swashbuckler is that its canonical playing style, dual-wielding, is something that I'd feel more comfortable executing with other rogues. Namely, blades and F/Ts. A bounty hunter really is the best trapper. An assasin really is the best backstaber. A swasbuckler isn't really the best dual wielder- at least not in my install given my playing style.
I could definitely get excited about a Swashbuckler playthrough, but I'm not convinced that that's the route I want to go this time.
As for vampires, by mid to late-SoA I would expect a solo thief to be picking up HLAs, so level drain shouldn't be a problem.
My comment on vampires needs to be contextualized. I've soloed thieves before in SCS, and vampires haven't been a problem. But this is my first time playing with the SCS v30 vampires and testing them is a high priority. For this particular playthrough, I'd prefer to have a character better positioned to deal with vampires.
Best,
A.
I for one would love to see you play a non-arcane character Alesia, I mean with your skill and knowledge of protection spells, and of course after your last playthrough which was epic, an arcane pc is less interesting to me to watch than say, for example, a swashbuckler.
Would an R/C please?
Best,
A.
Damn. I must forbid myself to follow this threads, there's a voice in my head "JOIIIIIIIIIIIIIN....DIE.........JOIIIIIIIIIN".
Guess I should do 3 things:
1) read back on what happened during my apsence
2) create a brand new install
3) join (and eventually, die 
)
Our difference in opinion here is largely due to differences in playing style. Our basis of comparison may be different as well.
I'm comparing swashbucklers to blades and F/Ts. Given my playing style, a blade, who has Abjuration spells, would be in a better postion to dual wield safely than a swashbuckler. An F/T with Foebane + the Defender + Jan Jansen's Adventurewear + Hardiness would also be in a better position to dual-wield safely while having fighter HLAs and backstabs.
Understood. From my perspective a high-level swashbuckler would be better both offensively and defensively than a high-level F/T in melee as well as ranged combat, but I accept that will be a function of playing style (I would tend to find a blade far too high maintenance in having to use buffs, so am not attracted by that). For the vast majority of enemies I would expect the reduction in chance of being hit from the 9 better AC would outweigh the lack of hardiness, but that's from the perspective of someone who almost never relies on hardiness with any character anyway and rarely uses other defensive buffs (instead using mobility to reduce attacks if necessary, or very occasionally making use of rat form for a bit of fun). I would also rarely use dual-wielding with a swashie and if you see that as the key to enjoying the character then I can understand you thinking the kit's not really for you.
If you do go for a R/C, I'll look forward to that. I think you've pointed out in the past the apparent anomaly that no-one has been successful with what is regarded as one of the stronger classes, so perhaps you can put the record straight .
Understood. From my perspective a high-level swashbuckler would be better both offensively and defensively than a high-level F/T in melee as well as ranged combat, but I accept that will be a function of playing style
It's a function of playing style and install differences.
Given that you don't buff much and don't use Hardiness often, it's not surprising that you'd find a Swashbuckler preferable to a blade or a F/T from a defensive point of view. But if you do use arcane buffs to their potential and take advantage of the synergy between Hardiness + Adventurewear + the Defender + Foebane, then there really isn't a comparison to my mind. Blades can reach the AC cap while also having renewable access to Stoneskins, ProMW, SI:A, and comprehensive specific protections. A Hardiness + Adventurewear + the Defender F/T can have 85% resistance to physical damage, so a 25HP hit becomes an 4HP hit. 4HP can be recovered with a single Foebane hit.
When I range fight, I use the Reflection Shield. With the Reflection Shield equipped, an AC bonus is counter productive to the extent that it matters at all. Nonetheless, a halfling Swashbuckler with the Sling of Seeking and the Reflection Shield should be one of the best range fighters in the game.
As for install differences, I see a lot of Critical Strike HLAs out enemies. Consequently, AC alone is less helpful. There are also more enemies with on hit effects that don't allow saves, which makes melee fighting sans ProMW less attractive.
In vanilla with your playing style a swashbuckler, I'm sure a swashbuckler would be excellent.
I would also rarely use dual-wielding with a swashie and if you see that as the key to enjoying the character then I can understand you thinking the kit's not really for you.
Yeah. That's the thing. In ToB, my swash would be more of an archer than a melee duelist. I'm not super-enthusiastic about playing an archer type character this time. I'm sure I will someday though.
If you do go for a R/C, I'll look forward to that. I think you've pointed out in the past the apparent anomaly that no-one has been successful with what is regarded as one of the stronger classes, so perhaps you can put the record straight
Yeah. An R/C could be fun. I've never tried one actually because I've always considered the class access to high level druid spells to be an oversight. I'm kind of in the mod for a divine spell fest though. R/Ca can also be outstanding in melee at high level due to Hardiness + Armor of Faith + Defender + excellent AC. I'd like to do some melee fighting this run.
Best,
A.
Entering the challenge, Bargon
Weidu:
Pretty much my standard install - without aTweaks Demons this time; but with an added mod that changes how kitted mages work -
(it's kind of "work in progress" but you can read about it here).
In short, every kitted mage gains some extra abilities, but looses an extra spell school; with two exceptions: Diviners loose only one (Conjuration, but it will likely change to Abjuration as well, need to play them a bit) and Illusionists which loose three (Abjuration, Evocation and Necromancy).
Anyhow, Bargon will not be traveling alone. He has a custom party of an Avenger called Loa, Illusionist/Thief named Rizze, Enchantress Clarisse and Invoker Blazus. (their stats are quite nice - mostly max minus WIS and CHA, apart druid's - whose stats suck a bit.).
As so far, they've finished Beregost quests, destroyed the Ankheg farm, and obtained the RoFA from Dushai. That little guy Desfraiytenatanon (or whatever....) was also killed.
Ok. I'll get back to Amelie eventually since I really like her portrait, but for now enter Aria, Half-Elven R/C.
Personal Item: undecided
Proficiencies: Quarterstaves, Two-Handed Weapon Style, Slings
Mods: SCS (full pre-buffs, all tactical components), Tutufix Pack, NPC banter
I'll post on Aria's time in BG1 shortly.
Best,
A.
I've used Otiluke's Resilient Sphere for my solo F/M/T some years ago (original, vanilla BG1, no 'noreload' but insane). It had worked really good.
I've tested this in BGEE and it didn't work - not sure what went wrong. Liia had survived but still it was game over. Maybe the doppelgangers went down to fast, the sphere was still active and the dialog after fight did not fire properly. Or perhaps casting OSR is now a hostile action?
At least in my BGEE Liia attacks the doppelgangers so Invisibility might not help (but perhaps it makes the dopplegangers lose her as their target).
Just wondering who you cast the spell on. I once used Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on Liia and she went hostile on me. Game over! The idea was to protect her!
Aria, Half-Elven R/C: CandleKeep to the Bandit Camp
Aria began her adventure by heading south to Beregost. She assuaged Marl's pain, nixed the spiders, discovered Roe's note, and then headed north to the FAI. At the FAI, she discovered a magic ring and then met Gorion's friends, who happily donated a Potion of Invisibility to Aria's cause. The ring was sold. Donations brought Aria's reputation to 18. Remaining funds were used to buy a Wand of Sleep, a Potion of Freedom, and a Potion of Mirror Eyes. Aria then headed south to the Carnival where she purchased the Shield Amulet, the Necklace of Missiles, and a Protection from Petrification scroll. She then hunted basilisks for early XP.
Aria's next objective was to raise gold to finance a shopping spree at Ulgolth's Beard. Gnarl and Hairtooth, Vax and Zal, Greywolf and Prism, the Revenant and the ghasts provided the needed funds. The were all killed through buffed melee fighting, save the ghasts.
At Ulgoth's Beard, Aria bought the Cloak of Displacement, the Greenstone Amulet, Aule's Staff, and a Wand of the Heavens. The Cloak of Displacement and the Girdle of Bluntness permitted Aria to safely take down the ankegs. Well equipped and suitably leveled, Aria was now ready for the story line encounters.
Nashkel Mines
The Darkside Kolbods were tamed with the Wand of Sleep. Mulahey was killed with Aule's under Greenstone Amulet, Potion of Freedom, and Potion of Stone Giant Strength.
A Holy Smite helped finish off the minions.
The Nimbul fight was a summon filled brawl. The Wand of Sleep helped tipped the scales in Aria's favor.
A Holy Smite finished him (thankfully, Amnish guards aren't evil...).
Bandit Camp
Aria's most harrowing early game encounter occurred in an unlikely place: Larswood. Seeking Teven, Aria got a touch to close to a single gibberling. The gibberling had friends, and they were all invited to the party.
Gibberlings are trivial. And Teven isn't exactly a powerhouse. But Teven gets some nice potions in my install- including an Oil of Speed, a Potion of Stone Giant Strength, and some healers. And the gibberlings were in call for help range of a trio of black talon elites, who also had potions. For an unbuffed Aria -who's base strength was 14 at the time- this was kind of a mess. A manageable mess, but a mess.
Aria was making progress, but then some unexpected guests arrived.
This was a total shock. If Molkar shows, he shows up as soon as my character enters an area. I've never seen him join a fight before. I freaked, but an emergency Potion of Invisibilty got Aria out of a potential jam.
Heading north to Peldvale and killing Raiken revealed the Bandit Camp.
A Potion of Invisibility allowed Aria to buff and then stealth into Tazok's tent. Venkt and crew were blown up and punked with Aule's under Protection from Fire, Potion of Fire Resistance, Oil of Speed, Potion of Regeneration, Shield Amulet, Greenstone Amulet.
Heading outside, Aria layered in a Potion of Absorption to finish of Taugosz.
The Cloakwood is next.
Best,
A.
Have a great run with Bargon, Aasim, and you with Aria, Alesia!
Aasim, you haven't told us what class your character is.
Mine is a Berserker Dwarf called the uninspired name of Chopper. Specialising in axes.
Str 18/95, Dex 17, Con 19, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 2.
After Grandmastery next point was in two weapons. He has been able to buy an axe +2
Only just got to level 6.
Started off with going down to Nashkel and the south, being as good as I could, rescuing a dog and a cat etc. Then heading north towards the Ankheg area, killing them all and in the end killing Sonner et al.
Thinking that west side of the sword coast might be a good idea next and then into the mines. Trying to decide whether to solo or have a party. Will buy necklace of missiles anyway for dealing with mages.
I was wondering which was better for him: Two weapon style or sword and shield style. Advice plus reasons welcome even though it is now too late for this game.
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