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[The Fred]

I consider any legal NPC changes akin to using a mod, since you could just go and install L1 NPCs, which is a mod and does the same thing. Even if you couldn't, there are "Khalid as F/M" and "Xan as Generalist" mods etc, so if you mention you're doing those things (within reason) then I don't see them as being any different. For example, in my poverty game I changed Imoen into a Bard. Not a big deal since a Bard is more or less a Mage/Thief anyway so it kind of fits her theme. If it wasn't an illegal combination I'd just do it and not care but I feel a tad naughty doing something like this. I'm happy to play with Merrus as the only priest, but I've decided that I'm not going to try and complete the game without a thief. Using Viconia as a Cleric/Thief would just make a change from using, say, Safana, and I've never played Cleric/Thief before (tbh it will probably be worse for me thanks to the rep hit and the fact I can't get to a high rep and dump her).

Viconia also makes a certain sense as a Cleric/Thief, and she does have a natural high Dex (I wasn't planning on changing her stats).

Anyway, Merrus is fine on his own for the time being, killing the ogre for the belt and heading north to the FAI where he retrieved a ring for Joia. I then brought Brage back to the temple and decided to take a risk on Neira. I interrupted her first spell with Larloch's, then darted behind a wall to use Entangle whilst being targettable. So I thought - she cast Hold Person through the wall and caught me. This was a victory to her, really, but now that she couldn't see me she just stayed where she was, so I was able to wait it out and then continue with my plan. Unfortunately, I failed to sling her to death, so fled. The next day she was waiting for me again, but once again I had to flee. Feeling thoroughly beaten, Merrus went east and managed to kill a half-ogre who let him get up to L4. With a lower (18) base THAC0 and a prof point in small swords, he just got great (THAC0 14) with a Flame Blade. He also took a saving throw dive and gained some health. Feeling powerful, I headed back up to take on more half-ogres, but was forced to flee again after realising my complacency.

Now that I have my extra proficiency point, it might be better to use throwing daggers on Entangled foes; I've collected a lot from skeletons. There are a bit more expensive, though.

Merrus Chaotic Neutral Half-elf Druid L4
Proficiencies: Missile Weapons, Blunt Weapons, Short Swords
Favourite Spell: Entangle
Favourite Weapon: Sling and Bullets
Most Powerful Vanquished: The Amazing Oopah

[Grimbergenme]

Sorry to hear about Kaela, Shadow_Leech!


Lord vs. Zhalimar & Co.

  When I'd reached the fourth floor I knew that the group was just upstairs. However, I'd forgotten that they attack you on sight.

  So up Lord wanders, only to realise his mistake. One of the group started to break towards him, so he did the noble thing & fled down 3 floors. On the second floor he waited to see if any other than Diyab had followed... They hadn't. Not one to take chances, Lord sprinted across the room & fired his brand new wand of monster summoning in Diyab's direction. 6 gnolls proceeded to keep the man busy while Lord finished him off from range with his bow.

  Catching his breath, Lord climbed back up to the fourth floor & buffed with Shield, Blur, Mirror Image & also a potion of magic protection. He poked his head up the stairs again and was spotted. When asked to explain himself, Lord couldn't think of a retort.
  Seeing one of the group starting to cast something, Lord ducked back down to the fourth floor again. He had been followed by 3 of the remaining 5, so darted across the room & fired one of his arrows of detonation at the group. As they started to close in on him, Lord used his wand of monster summoning again to distract the enemy. The summoned Hobgoblins blocked the path and Lord managed to get a few solid shots off at Gardush the fighter.



  Realising he needed to shut down the enemy priest fast, Lord fired a second arrow of detonation at him and then used his wand of monster summoning for a third time. The summoned dire wolves kept two of his opponents busy, giving him time to take down Gardush. He used a potion of firebreath on the fighter to speed proceedings.



  Gardush fallen, Lord & the wolves made quick work of both the priest Aasim and then Zhalimar.



  Lord poked his head back upstairs and instantly ran back down to avoid a spell cast. The mage Naaman followed and met a swift end to the remaining wolves & Lord's arrows.



  Now confident of victory, Lord dashed back upstairs to face Alai. Unprotected, the mage fell quickly to Lord's ranged attacks.



  And there we are. I left this feeling like a bit of a one-man-army. If I were to do it again, I'd have prepared properly before blundering up to the 5th floor. I wager that I could've taken on all 6 of them using pretty similar tactics. As far as I'm concerned, a fighter that can use wands is rediculously powerful by this point in the game. More on chapter 6 soon!

Modifié par Grimbergenme, 25 mai 2011 - 12:02 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

Kaela gets in a fight with Marl

Kaela tries to "be friends" with Marl, but Marl doesn't like this and attacks her. Marl gets what was coming for him and dies. Melicamp was not saved, and a close call occurred with a bandit attack with a half-ogre leading the charge. Kaela gets a free ankheg armor in Nashkel, something I did not believe was going to be there.

Tarnesh the Melee Mage

The assassin Tarnesh saved against the wand of sleep and the command spell which Kaela cast. Tarnesh was a bit aggressive afterwards, sending magic missile after missile at Kaela. Kaela used her bhaalspawn ability to soak up damage. The last magic missile was mysteriously interrupted, I have no idea how. Kaela had turned a corner and there he was (Tarnesh). I guess the enemy is not allowed to cast offscreen? I heard that pausing the screen will actually stop enemy spellcasting. Perhaps one of the Friendly Arm guards got to him? Why didn't that gender belt ogre show up? So many odd questions. Not sure if Kaela would've died, in any case she kept running and Tarnesh kept chasing. Yes, a wizard was chasing a fighter/cleric and willing to melee. Once it dawned upon Kaela that she was running from a wizard who wanted to engage in physical combat, she turned right around and hit him with a bullet from her sling.

(Additional) I created a new game and imported one of the mission characters to test Tarnesh once more. I don't think it was interrupted because I tested pause numerous times while he casted and it did not interrupt his spell casting. So I think one of the guards hit him maybe or perhaps Kaela's bullet hit him. Anyways, I also explored other areas while in this test phase. This allowed me to have Kaela buy two pro-acid green scrolls as Mutamin casts melf's acid arrow in the map where she goes basilisk hunting. Now she is a 5/5 cleric/fighter, near what the previous (6/6) was at. My progress has been much quicker this time around. Or perhaps I am not noticing how long it took to get to this point.

And thanks for everyone's condolences!

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 25 mai 2011 - 12:42 .

[Grond0]

The Fred wrote...

I consider any legal NPC changes akin to using a mod, since you could just go and install L1 NPCs, which is a mod and does the same thing. Even if you couldn't, there are "Khalid as F/M" and "Xan as Generalist" mods etc, so if you mention you're doing those things (within reason) then I don't see them as being any different. For example, in my poverty game I changed Imoen into a Bard. Not a big deal since a Bard is more or less a Mage/Thief anyway so it kind of fits her theme. If it wasn't an illegal combination I'd just do it and not care but I feel a tad naughty doing something like this. I'm happy to play with Merrus as the only priest, but I've decided that I'm not going to try and complete the game without a thief. Using Viconia as a Cleric/Thief would just make a change from using, say, Safana, and I've never played Cleric/Thief before (tbh it will probably be worse for me thanks to the rep hit and the fact I can't get to a high rep and dump her).

L1 NPCs will also allow you to do 'illegal' things.  Personally I'm relaxed about this and I think this is in keeping with the game - lots of the NPCs were created with aspects that would not be legal for the PC, i.e. the character creation rules were intended to cover the PC rather than NPCs.  Of course it would be possible to produce unbalancing results - particularly by major changes in statistics - but I don't think your proposal of an elven cleric / thief could possibly be put into this category.

[Alesia_BH]

Opps!

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 25 mai 2011 - 03:08 .

[Alesia_BH]

ussnorway wrote...
The thing is, 2nd edition rules aren’t absolute… more like guide lines really.

I would argue in support of changing say Imoen into a bounty hunter or indeed any legal build in order to assist you through the whole game but having said that, I don’t agree with making powerful characters in the case you described, simply because solo play is about overcoming the inherit weakness of a class with good gear/ tactics.

I'm not sure I understand you here. As I understood him, The Fred wishes to stop playing solo and then start playing with a small group. He would like Viconia to be a C/T in that group. The principles you've outlined seem consistent with that.

Were you trying to say that altering NPC classes and kits is fine, but illegal PCs can be problematic (especially when solo)? I suspect that The Fred might agree as well: he just wants to make Viconia a C/T.


Best,

A.

[The Fred]

Well, I'm thinking of going with that but I want to get to L5 first, anyway, to get the higher-level incarnations of the NPCs. I always feel a little bad about this, too, since playing solo at the start can get your party a much higher net XP overall, but that's just how the game works.

I also had a near heart attack when I wandered into the Nashkel Inn and tried to book a room, only to have Rigid Thinking cast on me be Neira, who was still there! Luckily I saved, and finished her off with Larloch's.

In other news, MerrusI was nearly killed by a bear in the cave in the xvart village. When Entangle failed me, I decided to run past and grab the loot only to find that Hard Times had removed most of it. The bear also moved much too fast for me, and I took a lot of damage. After returning to Nashkel, I also decided to head to the Gnoll Stronghold but forgot to rest first, leaving me waylaid by gnolls and gibberlings with very few spells. I did manage to get Gurke his cloak from Cloakwood, but I failed to kill a rather speedy bear who had been worrying Jared.

I don't have DH installed so I think the Nashkel mines will be reasonably doable up until perhaps even the last level. I don't feel confident about Mulahey, though, since I will have difficult interrupting his spells and doing damage.

[The Fred]

ussnorway wrote...
I don’t agree with making powerful characters in the case you described, simply because solo play is about overcoming the inherit weakness of a class with good gear/ tactics.

Alesia_BH wrote...
As I understood him, The Fred wishes to stop playing solo and then start playing with a small group. He would like Viconia to be a C/T in that group. The principles you've outlined seem consistent with that.

Yes, indeed. It was never really my intention to solo a druid because I really don't feel up to it, not in a no-reload with vanilla rules (i.e. no kits, limited spells etc). I have never soloed or no-reloaded the whole game successfully so doing both is over-ambitious, I feel. In terms of modding NPCs, doing so specifically to fill party gaps does feel a tad cheesy, but aside from that I have no intention of making anyone more powerful or anything so it's more than in-line with other mods (tbh some mods are far worse at unbalancing the game). I just feel a little guilty about using an "illegal" race/class combo (which I suppose could be considered a little overpowered since you could then have a Cleric/Thief with 19 Dex, but hey).

[Alesia_BH]

Quick Note on Alastria's Game:

Alastria is almost ready to pick up where her earlier battle reports left-off. She should hit the Iron Throne this evening. I'll let you know when she does.

Best,

A.

Btw. Ao remains on hold. I'll resume her game at the completion of Alastria's

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 25 mai 2011 - 03:07 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

I kind of have the urge to try a new challenge I thought up just right now. It's a cannot equip weapons (you may only create them magically) and may only cast arcane spells from scrolls except spells which create magical weapons challenge but I am still thinking about the rules and everything. Well anyways I'll let you know if I'm going to try that later. Sounds like a mouthful too.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 25 mai 2011 - 03:27 .

[The Fred]

A sort of magical-weapons-only challenge? Sounds kinda scary.

In the poverty challenge, we allowed one melee and one ranged equipped item per character, so you could still fight normally, but I think magical weapons would have been more useful than normal given you couldn't switch weapons much.

I have to say, I am currently finding Flame Blade quite useful. I was initially a little sad that it's actually a Short Sword, not a Scimitar (Long Sword) but it's probably actually better this way, since I can now use Throwing Daggers. With a proficiency point and its +4 to hit bonus, it's by far my best weapon - it does more damage, too. It just runs out a bit quickly.

[Grimbergenme]

The Misadventures of Lord!

Lord has made it through the Candlekeep Catacombs. He found both the tomes in the first area, +1 strength & +1 wisdom. The second area was cleared with relative ease, though he did slightly underestimate the doppelgangers posing as Elminster & co.

Openned with a fireball from the necklace of missles.



Proceeded to beat down the rest in melee but need to use a few health potions; they were hasted & got a few lucky hits in. In reflection, I should've buffed before the fight.





The battle against Prat, Tam, Bor & Sakul was rather messy but Lord got the job done. Regular buffs including magic protection potion & a frost giant strength potion.

Started with the wand of monster summoning. He went on to turn the summoned gnolls hostile with an arrow of detonation.



He used the wand again which summoned more gnolls. These were used to tank the enemy group while Lord cleared up the hostile gnolls. The new gnolls were held with Hold Person and most were killed. Lord fired off another arrow of detonation, killing 2 of the enemy & then switched to the +2 arrows to finish of a third. He took a solid amount of spell damage towards the end of the fight. The rest dead, he moved into melee to finish off Tam.




Lord's familiar discovered the location of some greater basilisks. Lord cast Protection from Petrification and attacked.

Modifié par Grimbergenme, 25 mai 2011 - 04:40 .

[Grond0]

Grimbergenme wrote...
 

Tam attacking you at minus 19 to hit  - that's an impressive defence you've got there.

[Grimbergenme]

Grond0 wrote...
Tam attacking you at minus 19 to hit  - that's an impressive defence you've got there.

Hm I hadn't noticed that truth be told. Is it possible that he was using a ranged weapon? I forget whether it's the using a ranged weapon in melee that gives you a disadvantage to hit, or whether it gives your attacker +hit.

Anyhow thanks! I wasn't even wearing my armour there incase i needed to get off a Dispel Magic. So I would have been on AC -8 rather than the AC -11 when buffed as well as armoured.



Edit: I'm not certain it was the case, but him using a ranged weapon against me in melee might make sense. I just rebuffed to check Armour class Modifiers, and without the full plate I'm on:

Missile: -17
Piercing: -3

Modifié par Grimbergenme, 25 mai 2011 - 05:07 .

[Alesia_BH]

Speaking of magically created weapons...

Alastria at the Bandit Camp (Or Why Change is Good)

Initially, I didn't have any intention of posting on battles that were covered earlier. But after reviewing the screenshots, the Bandit Camp excursion seemed pretty interesting. I thought I'd share it.

First, Alastria's current spellbook.

Level 1: Blindness, Chill Touch, Protection from Evil, Shield, Spook,
Level 2: Blur, Mirror Image, Strength
Level 3: Melf's Minute Meteors, Vampiric Touch
Level 4: Polymorph Self

Since the last Bandit Camp run was such a mad scramble, I decided to take a different approach this time. Instead of barging into the camp, I had Alastria sneak into the tent invisible- hoping she'd be able to seperate the leaders from Taugosz et al. It worked: Venkt, Hakt, Britik, and pals were taken down in a pretty straightforward fashion (no screenshots). Alastria then left, rested, and returned, this time with a new spell: Polymorph Self.

The Plan

Buff with Shield, Polymorph Self, Protection from Evil, Blur, and Mirror Image attack with the Melf's Minute Meteors left over from the prior night. Then close, cast Vampiric Touch on the most dangerous nearby enemy, drop back, flip into Spider Form, have the Tweedles cast Strength on it and charge into battle. The Spider was selected here because it can be extremely effective against large groups of melee foes. It has an attack speed of zero and administers nasty Poison with each hit:  allowing you to close, take a nip, poison, and dart away- before foes can bring down their swords. Ranged weapons are the only threat. But given Alastria's use of Missle Weapon protection items, and the poor Thacos of her enemies, they shouldn't be too much of a concern.

Execution

The battle went according to plan except for one wrinkle: an SCS Assasin Team arrived while Alastria was buffing.

Alastria sized up the crew: 2 Clerics and 2 Thieves. That made Jelly the right choice. The Mustard Jelly is Immune to both Backstabs and Piercing weapons so it causes almost as much trouble for Thieves as it does Mages. With the Thieves irrelevant -and the Jelly's 100% Magic Resistance- it would just be a buffed Jelly Alastria and her Necklace versus 2 middling Blunt Weapon warriors and some Skeletons. That's a simple fight.



Interestingly, the Thieves knew their Backstabbing tactics wouldn't work and instead dropped back to use their bows. It didn't help much, but kudos to them.


Once that rude interruption was taken care of, Alastria went back to her original plan.

First some Meteors.


Then the Touch.


And then into Spider Form- with a little Strength buff from The Tweedles.


Alastria used 1 Necklace Blast in Spider Form to do some thinning, but from then on it was all Poison.


While the groupings seemed intimidating at times, none of the Melee weapons had an adequate attack speed factor to pose a threat and the range fighters were facing a negative teens AC. One by one the piggies popped.



And then there was one: Taugosz.


Taugosz was taken to Near Death by poison when Polymorph Self expired. She took some defensive buffs, and then fed him some Meteors. Fin.


Comments

That was a pretty fun fight. The Thieves and Clerics would have slaughtered the Spider, but they had no chance against the Jelly. In contrast, the Bandit crew could have popped the Jelly quick but had little hope against the Spider. And that's why change is good.

I enjoyed the opportunity to use a range of Alastria's abilities productively without nail-bitting. The nails may get pretty short soon though...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 26 mai 2011 - 06:31 .

[Alesia_BH]

Grimbergenme wrote...

Hm I hadn't noticed that truth be told. Is it possible that he was using a ranged weapon?

That's what I'd guess. The Boots of Avoidance, the Cloak of Displacement, the Girdle of Piercing, and Shield will get you to -14. A Dex adjustment, Large Shield, etc could take you higher.  

I forget whether it's the using a ranged weapon in melee that gives you a disadvantage to hit, or whether it gives your attacker +hit

The attacker does get a penality. If Tam was attacking with a Range Weapon in Melee range that could yield -19.

Alastria could get near there if Nimbul weren't such a coward in my installl...I'm jealous:pinched:


A.

Btw. Good work Grimbergenme. Lord it looking strong at this stage. Cheers!

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 25 mai 2011 - 06:12 .

[Grimbergenme]

Cheers for clarifying Alesia.

And thanks, I'm feeling pretty confident now. I just need to progress extremely cautiously; my memory of this later part of the game is rather patchy.

[The Fred]

Merrus did a bunch of things - explored around the Gnoll Stronghold a bit (getting the Tome of Leadership and Influence) and took on Greywolf (with the aid of many Entangles and Flame Blades and a potion). Being close to the next level, he went to hunt a few more half-ogres.

With access to third level spells, Merrus now has quite a bit of power at his disposal, though a lot of it is situational. Call Lighting is good, but only outdoors. I have Dispel Magic on my install which may be instrumental later on, but not normally necessary. With Strength of One, he can lower his THAC0 to something like 12 (with Flame Blade), which is not too shabby, and add some damage.

However, with his new-found Wisdom, he knew there was only one way he was going to emerge triumphant. He had to put aside his solitary ways and call upon one of the greatest known powers in the universe... the strength of Minsc... AND BOO!

Using SCK, I changed Minsc into a Fighter with a focus on axes (Axe ***, Bow **, Large Sword *) with the boomerang throwing axe in mind. I wondered about giving him Polearms and Greywolf's Halberd +1 (with a view to getting the Grey Clan Halberd later on) but decided against it. This way he can still use Spider's Bane if I keep him as my only tank.

We quickly ploughed through the Gnoll Stronghold, Boo's ferocity matched only by the power of the lightning bolts Merrus called from the sky, and rescued Dynaheir. I still plan on picking up Viconia, but I'm not sure whether to do it before or after the Nashkel mines (perhaps en route to the bandit camp?).

The new team:
Merrus Druid L5 (darts/daggers/sling, club)
Minsc Fighter L6 (battle axe, composite longbow)
Dynaheir Invoker L6 (darts/sling, club)

[ussnorway]

Sorry guys, I was not clear enough... Viconia can go ahead as a C/T or even a bard if you want to, with her high magic resist she makes a good tank.
Ormaline has been a bit slack lately but I'll play/post something this weekend.

[Aigleborgne]

@Alesia_BH : nice fight !
One thing eludes me : it seems that in every screenshots, Alastria always has full hit points.
Is it because she is never hit or healing potions, or.. ?

What class is Alastria ? mage or sorceress ?

[Alesia_BH]

Aigleborgne wrote...
@Alesia_BH : nice fight !

Thanks! That's kind of you to say.

One thing eludes me: it seems that in every screenshots, Alastria always has full hit points.
Is it because she is never hit or healing potions, or.. ?

I'll give you a clue: look at the quick slots in the screenshots...

I'm pretty neurotic about healing her- especially when she's Shapeshifted. I'm more willing to let her absorb damage in Human form becuase she has more hitpoints and a wider range of defensive options.

Sometimes she has taken damage, but it's covered up by buff icons.

Her AC is also a bit too low for early BG enemies as well. They typically only land on critical and her Mirror Images deal with most of those. And as mentioned in the post, the Attack Speed Factor on the Spider is too low for most melee enemies. She can get a roll in, and then get out of range before they can counter attack.

In that fight, for example she was at -15 against  Missle Weapons. Taugosz's Hammer has a Speed Factor of 3 and a Range of 1 so it isn't really going to work against the Spider. The Thieves, on the other hand could have cult the Spider to shread since they get initiative coming out of invisibility. That's why she used Jelly against them.

What class is Alastria ? mage or sorceress ?

Alastria is a Sorceress but she's a peculiar one: a Melee/Transmuting Sorceress.

This is actually the second incarnation of her. The first Alastria was a Transmuter. She was born of a thread started by Potty1 in the old forums. Basically, he asked people to choose the worst class for soloing and then nominated me to solo it though a Tactics(parts)/Ascension install.

http://forums.biowar...ight=transmuter

Threads on Alastria V1's original Tactics/Ascension run can be found in the old forums.

http://forums.biowar...&forum=18&sp=30

That run forced me to use Polymorph Self a lot. But -as you might imagine- the lack of Abjuration spells made her problematic in No Reload play. I built the Sorceress version to give her a chance at No Reload play using similar tactics.


Best,

A.


Btw. Can someone remind me how to post a link on these forums?

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 26 mai 2011 - 06:24 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

I thought about my challenge recently and decided on the following things

The Purity Challenge

Red spells may not be memorized with the exception of red spells which create a weapon or transform the caster(If any). They may be cast from scrolls, items, or innate abilities.

Only regular weapons or weapons with just an enchantment bonus are allowed to be equipped(or used). Weapons may not have elemental damage or do anything such as grant user haste, mirror image, invisibility, dispel on hit, elemental resistances, some kind of immunity and so forth.

Characters may not choose the high level ability "Use Any Item"

I think I'll begin a game with this basis however I'll probably go back and forth between my solo and this.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 26 mai 2011 - 07:05 .

[ussnorway]

Question for you guys; Ormaline is F/M with 18 Intel already so if I give the +1 Intel book to Imoen what’s the verdict on allowing her to keep the stats/ spells she finishes bg1 with… when/ if I make it to bg2?

[Grimbergenme]

ussnorway wrote...

Question for you guys; Ormaline is F/M with 18 Intel already so if I give the +1 Intel book to Imoen what’s the verdict on allowing her to keep the stats/ spells she finishes bg1 with… when/ if I make it to bg2?

It makes sense to me if you do. It's not as though it's going to have gamebreaking effects, so I can't see a problem with it.

[Grond0]

As I play BGT that would happen automatically - so how could I say no to you.