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[krimesh]

didymos1120 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

3mii wrote...

How do you know this?

It's right there in the codex and even the bartending matriarch backs it up. The children of asari/alien unions do not inherent ANYTHING from the alien partner. Nothing.

If you pay attention to Liara's conversation in ME1, even she doesn't seem to buy it.  She explains the whole traits-from-father-species notion, but then immediately says that's what "popular wisdom" claims.

I am pretty certain that "or so conventional wisdom would hold" only referred to nothing being gained from Asari-Asari melding.
I don't know about the bartender, but the codex talks about inheritance of traits from the partner, and then says that evidence is "anecdotal" . (ME2 codex, Asari Biology) As far as I am concerned, this is not so different from a human child, who might turn out nothing like his father or mother due to 50% dormant genes and only 50% passed on in the first place. (Don't take my word for it, my memory is pretty vague on this, and its probably more complicated) It seems that the Asari melding process is not well understood or that the Asari are not telling the other races everything.

In my opinion, a human who melds with an Asari and produces a child that way, still has an obligation to produce a human child, passing on his actual genetic information (especially when it is the unique Shepard strand. I am not proposing to cheat on Liara - e.g. go to the bank). But this does not make his relation to the Asari and their child less important.
Of course everyone has to make up their own minds about such things - to make up your mind about what is right and what is wrong is a big part of mass effect;

[krimesh]

They NEED a partner. It is necessary. The fact that they can do it with other races too is a bonus - for them. Its everyone's choice if they like it or not.

Modifié par krimesh, 15 juillet 2010 - 09:43 .

[Wabi wa Sabi]

No, but my point was that a partner is needed - whether it be asari or any other alien species. Therefore I believe that some (even if it is just 0.01% of it) biology from the 'father' race must remain, to have created the offspring in the first place - because if it didn't, then I can't see the logical reason for asari's to need partners otherwise; they should just be able to reproduce on their own, singly.

[Wabi wa Sabi]

Shandepared wrote...

3mii wrote...

No, but my point was that a partner is needed - whether it be asari or any other alien species.

I never disputed that.

I don't care that you think the father must contribute something to the kid, because you are wrong. The codex says you are wrong and even asari in the game say you are wrong. Any behavior passed on by the father to the child will be learned behavior, the result of that father raising the child. It will not be in their DNA however.

It's all just BS put forward by the asari to encourage aliens to mate with them. As I said it is how they've spread their empire.

Quickly off-topic: Who's your favourite character in ME1/2, Shandepared?

[Wabi wa Sabi]

Shandepared wrote...

3mii wrote...

Quickly off-topic: Who's your favourite character in ME1/2, Shandepared?

I have several favorites. Why do you ask?

I have no hidden agenda, it was pure curiosity. I like to see whether there are correlations between characters that people like, and that reflecting through on the characters they don't like.

[Mondo47]

Shandepared wrote...

3mii wrote...

No, but my point was that a partner is needed - whether it be asari or any other alien species.

I never disputed that.

I don't care that you think the father must contribute something to the kid, because you are wrong. The codex says you are wrong and even asari in the game say you are wrong. Any behavior passed on by the father to the child will be learned behavior, the result of that father raising the child. It will not be in their DNA however.

It's all just BS put forward by the asari to encourage aliens to mate with them. As I said it is how they've spread their empire.

Hold on a second... are you saying that the parental contribution (not genetic, as we can all pretty much accept all a non-asari partner does is load the genetic dice to fall a particular way without actual contribution of genes) made by a parent doesn't make them a parent?

[rolson00]

Shandepared wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Hold on a second... are you saying that the parental contribution (not genetic, as we can all pretty much accept all a non-asari partner does is load the genetic dice to fall a particular way without actual contribution of genes) made by a parent doesn't make them a parent?

If they are making no contribution they are not a parent. You have as much relation to any asari as you do to one spawned by you and another asari mind melding. If there's no DNA then it isn't your child.

the mind meld takes the best of your mind and adds it to the best of the mother and then that makes the baby asari

[Mondo47]

Shandepared wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Hold on a second... are you saying that the parental contribution (not genetic, as we can all pretty much accept all a non-asari partner does is load the genetic dice to fall a particular way without actual contribution of genes) made by a parent doesn't make them a parent?

If they are making no contribution they are not a parent. You have as much relation to any asari as you do to one spawned by you and another asari mind melding. If there's no DNA then it isn't your child.

So raising a child does not make you a parent, only genetics? Sorry, you're confuzzling me a mite here

[Barquiel]

Shandepared wrote...

I used to think Morinth, the bartender matriarch, and Aria were exceptions, but on reflection I changed my mind. The problem is that you could easily make them humans with only a light re-write. The same goes for Liara. I like all of these characters but they could be almost any race and be the exact same person and interact with you in the exact same way.

...and Saren, Garrus or Mordin couldn't be humans, with a light re-write?

[Mondo47]

yorkj86 wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Hold on a second... are you saying that the parental contribution (not genetic, as we can all pretty much accept all a non-asari partner does is load the genetic dice to fall a particular way without actual contribution of genes) made by a parent doesn't make them a parent?

If they are making no contribution they are not a parent. You have as much relation to any asari as you do to one spawned by you and another asari mind melding. If there's no DNA then it isn't your child.

So raising a child does not make you a parent, only genetics? Sorry, you're confuzzling me a mite here

What he's saying is as you suspect, Mondo.  According to him, adoptive parents aren't actual parents.

Nah, it's not so much that I'm arguing, it's circumstance. Keeping this entirely within the realms of the game universe, let's reverse it, and say two asari choose to raise an orphaned human baby (without getting too far into the semantics of why, let's just say they didn't want to risk having a pureblood child and blah blah blah). That child could grow up in a excellent environment, receive all the love and care it deserves, etc. but my issue is that there is a lot more to parenting than either genes or legalities (and there's no way in hell I'm going to try to debate that in a gaming forum) - is it wrong for that child to consider the asari that raised it it's parents, and are the asari equally iligitimate in claiming parenthood of the child?

All I'm trying to say is there is a lot more to being a parent than the letter of the law or genes, and I don't think (at least) that Shand would disagree with that. Just trying to add another tier to the debate is all

[Lyrandori]

yorkj86 wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Hold on a second... are you saying that the parental contribution (not genetic, as we can all pretty much accept all a non-asari partner does is load the genetic dice to fall a particular way without actual contribution of genes) made by a parent doesn't make them a parent?

If they are making no contribution they are not a parent. You have as much relation to any asari as you do to one spawned by you and another asari mind melding. If there's no DNA then it isn't your child.

So raising a child does not make you a parent, only genetics? Sorry, you're confuzzling me a mite here

What he's saying is as you suspect, Mondo.  According to him, adoptive parents aren't actual parents.

Indeed, I too understand his (or her) logic, being a parent only implies genetics/DNA, and I respect his view, but I for one disagree with it. If Liara had a child with Shepard she would be the child's mother (parent) just as much as I would consider myself a father if I ever adopt a child without having any biological/genetic links with the child. I guess it's a question of invidual definitions and opinions in the end. But I continue to believe - firmly - that any Asari child inherit certain traits from their father, either due to the mind-melding (and potential transfer of genetic information from the father to the child) or due to the father being present during a part of or during the entire raising of the child with (or without) the mother (but I do think that they inherit traits due to the actual melding of minds, which might well go beyond just mind-melding in action, the Asari call it a way, but it doesn't mean that it only physically and on a genetic-level does only what it's called like).

Ultimately (because it was the subject in the first place), I think that having a child with Shepard is Liara's only way to preseve certain "traits" of Shepard by her side in the form of her own child, which would help compensate (mentally at least, which would certainly be better than nothing) the potential entire lack of Shepard's presence for centuries to come following his/her death, which would leave Liara the daunting task of having the memory of "a good time a couple of centuries ago" with a certain Shepard. I mean just listen to how much she seems to desire Shepard in ME1's Normandy before they reach Ilos, I can recall her saying that she has never been so sure about anything in her entire life until that point (either to desire Shepard physically, or to perceive Shepard as the only possible lover for the next 80 years or so to come, but it certainly implies appreciation of Shepard beyond the point of mere physical attraction and friendship).

The goal of all this in the end was to try to figure out via the canonically established lore of the ME universe or via our own imagination a way for Liara (or the Asari in general) to cope with the abscene of their "long gone" alien lovers due to their tremendous longevity (with the exception of the Krogans, that we know of so far). And so having a child is probably the only way there is, if the Asari mother actually wishes to retain "traits" of the lover by her side, that is.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 15 juillet 2010 - 12:13 .