167 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Shandepared wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

...and Saren, Garrus or Mordin couldn't be humans, with a light re-write?

What, did I insult your waifu?

I don't even know what that means...I was just curious.

Garrus rebels against (turian) society. Morinth is an asari rebel ("genetic destiny of the asari").
IMO, there is no difference.

[lovgreno]

rolson00 wrote...
the mind meld takes the best of your mind and adds it to the best of the mother and then that makes the baby asari

The offspring looks like a asari. How this is influencing the actual DNA (or rather the asari equivalent of DNA) is unclear. It is often said that the offspring get something from both parents however. It makes sense that there are some changes in the asari "mother"s DNA as the race would degenerate if all children was a clone of the mother.
There is also the Ardat Yakshi, who have a genetic defect that makes them mind vampires. A defect that only happens among purebloods wich indicates that the genes of a alien/asari crossbreed takes tomething from both parents.

But back to the original question: I am sure Liara is no doubt one of the most intelligent and powerfull creatures in the ME universe. Her age and lack of understanding of humans in general makes it easy to underestimate her though. But she is still far from her adult stage, wich means she have the asari instinct to travel and meet many different partners to become stronger by learning.  Shepard is no doubt someone special, perhaps even loved in an asari way, to Liara but she is still in her maiden stage so I belive Shepard is just one of many lovers to come for Liara. But if you want your version of Liara to be different that is how you should see her of course.

No wonder asari dominates the galaxy when you think about it. Luckily for the other races the asari realises that they can't rule the other aliens (as they are not those different aliens) and let's the other spiecies mind their own buisness as long as it doesn't threat the asari.

Modifié par lovgreno, 15 juillet 2010 - 12:37 .

[lovgreno]

Yeah I admit that asari genetics are kind of confusing.

[Haseeo]

I imagine there might be some Asari who will only take one lover/mate for their whole life and thats it. I think Liara would be one of those types she just has that sort of air about her. Shepard and Liara being together for a good 100 years possible their bound to have a few children from this. Even with Shepard gone I imagine he'd pass on his/her ideals and views to his daughters, asari or not.

[Haseeo]

Shandepared wrote...

Really, one lover their whole life? Sure, maybe if its a krogan or another asari. Otherwise you're with somebody for 70 years and then you're single for another 900. I doubt anyone would go that long.

Like I said it depends on the person so might have such a close attachment to thier former "mate" that they don't want to be with another, but who can say whos right or wrong it depends from person to person I'd say do it's not unlikely that some would choose not to take another.

[didymos1120]

krimesh wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

3mii wrote...

How do you know this?

It's right there in the codex and even the bartending matriarch backs it up. The children of asari/alien unions do not inherent ANYTHING from the alien partner. Nothing.

If you pay attention to Liara's conversation in ME1, even she doesn't seem to buy it.  She explains the whole traits-from-father-species notion, but then immediately says that's what "popular wisdom" claims.

I am pretty certain that "or so conventional wisdom would hold" only referred to nothing being gained from Asari-Asari melding.

Yeah, I know.  But that's the point: if Liara doubts the notion that nothing is gained in A-A bonding, then she also necessarily doubts the notion that aliens contribute anything new.  Why?  Because the only justification ever offered for out-species bonding is the belief than in-species bonding is inferior.  The two ideas are inextricably linked in Asari culture.

[krimesh]

didymos1120 wrote...

krimesh wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

3mii wrote...

How do you know this?

It's right there in the codex and even the bartending matriarch backs it up. The children of asari/alien unions do not inherent ANYTHING from the alien partner. Nothing.

If you pay attention to Liara's conversation in ME1, even she doesn't seem to buy it.  She explains the whole traits-from-father-species notion, but then immediately says that's what "popular wisdom" claims.

I am pretty certain that "or so conventional wisdom would hold" only referred to nothing being gained from Asari-Asari melding.

Yeah, I know.  But that's the point: if Liara doubts the notion that nothing is gained in A-A bonding, then she also necessarily doubts the notion that aliens contribute anything new.  Why?  Because the only justification ever offered for out-species bonding is the belief than in-species bonding is inferior.  The two ideas are inextricably linked in Asari culture.

The Asari are the oldest citadel species, so following Bioware's idea that a race becomes more and more homogenous with time, doubting if A-A melding gives something new, simply means doubting how homogeneous the Asari already are.

[didymos1120]

Shandepared wrote...
 A lot of his internal conflict comes from the fact that turians are supposed to be rigid and obedient, but Garrus is not. In his own words he is a lousy turian.

Nonsense.  You simply give him a family that is extremely duty-conscious, with a long military tradition, and make him the black sheep who can't seem to meet their expectations, despite attempts to do so. Instead of being a "lousy turian", he could be a "lousy [insert surname here]"

Mordin wouldn't work as a human either. His speech and attitude are distinctly salarian. His reaction to Maelon's death illustrates his perfectly.

How his speech is "distincly salarian", I don't know, because he's the only salarian who talks like that.  As far as Maelon's death goes, here are two easy options:

a. Don't have him get over it so quickly.  He brushes you off and says he'll deal with it himself.
b. Have him act like he get over it that quickly, but imply that he actually has not.  Then have him brush you off.

Neither option would be a "heavy" rewrite, and the attitude is largely preserved.  The actual reason you can't easily make him human is that his entire backstory is tied to the genophage and his STG work on same.  His intellect and competence is also made more acceptable since we just take it as given that salarians tend to be like that.  I say "acceptable" because it's hardly unknown for humans to fill that sort of super-genius role in fiction.  It's just that the archetype has been overused, so making the character an alien can actually enhance believability.

Modifié par didymos1120, 15 juillet 2010 - 03:01 .

[didymos1120]

krimesh wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

krimesh wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

3mii wrote...

How do you know this?

It's right there in the codex and even the bartending matriarch backs it up. The children of asari/alien unions do not inherent ANYTHING from the alien partner. Nothing.

If you pay attention to Liara's conversation in ME1, even she doesn't seem to buy it.  She explains the whole traits-from-father-species notion, but then immediately says that's what "popular wisdom" claims.

I am pretty certain that "or so conventional wisdom would hold" only referred to nothing being gained from Asari-Asari melding.

Yeah, I know.  But that's the point: if Liara doubts the notion that nothing is gained in A-A bonding, then she also necessarily doubts the notion that aliens contribute anything new.  Why?  Because the only justification ever offered for out-species bonding is the belief than in-species bonding is inferior.  The two ideas are inextricably linked in Asari culture.

The Asari are the oldest citadel species, so following Bioware's idea that a race becomes more and more homogenous with time, doubting if A-A melding gives something new, simply means doubting how homogeneous the Asari already are.

No, it doesn't.  Why?  Because no asari ever says anything remotely like that.  In fact, Mordin is the only character to even bring up genetic diversity. The asari always talk about the belief that the father actually contributes to the child, and it's always contrasted with A-A pairing. 

Also, there's nothing in the games that says all races necessarily become less genetically diverse over time.  They simply are less so than humans, and no reasons are given.  However, it's not at all difficult to see why this is so in many cases:

Asari: parthenogenetic, single genetic parent.  They also have very long generations and aren't known to be especially prolific breeders.

Krogan: nearly went extinct after genophage.  Massive bottleneck resulted and there's been continual genetic attrittion ever since as krogan males keep leaving and end up dying without having children.

Salarians:  species is 90% male, and very, very few of those males will ever take part in a mating.  I.e., the bulk of novel mutations in any given generation are just thrown out.

Drell: another massive bottleneck as most of the species died a few centuries back, and relatively few were evacuated.

Quarian: huge bottleneck again, thanks to the geth killing all but a few million of them 300 years ago.  Only 17 million currently exist, and they live in shielded ships and wear those suits all the time.  The piligrimage tradition also inflicts some genetic loss, though it likely hasn't been long enough to have any real effect on overall diversity, and some of those who don't return do so by choice (rather than because of being dead) and still manage to have children.  Same for their exiles.

Vorcha:  that's just how they work.  See the codex.

Rachni: While few even know they exist, which likely means Mordin doesn't know anything about their genetics, there are two very obvious reasons: either they're totally extinct, or there's a single queen and all the rest are her children.

We don't know enough about the Batarians or Hanar to say anything one way or the other.  Possibly with the Volus, it has something to do with them originating in a very different sort of biosphere than basically every other known species.  They're likely far less exposed to stellar and cosmic radiation by virtue of living on worlds with very thick atmospheres, and their suits limit exposure when offworld.  Similarly, the Elcor have very thick, tough skin, and depending on when that trait arose, they could have had a lowered mutation rate for a very long time indeed.

As far as the Turians, one possible reason is suggested by the fact that their homeworld has a lot of background radiation as a result of a very weak magnetic field (which is why they have that tough pseudo-exoskeleton): in such an environment, mutations would be much, much more common and thus deleterious mutations would be that much more frequent. Having very efficient genetic repair mechanisms would be rather advantageous, but those mechanisms wouldn't really be able to tell a useful mutation from a harmful one, so a side-effect would be lower genetic diversity. 

Even if that's not the case, their skin definitely evolved to block radiation, and that alone will lower their mutation rate quite a bit. Especially since it's a trait shared by most life on Palaven, which means it evolved a very, very long time ago. And that's "long" as in "before the turian species even existed".

Modifié par didymos1120, 15 juillet 2010 - 03:00 .

[Nightwriter]

Okay, this may be a stupid question, but.... can organics be genetically modified to live longer?

Like I know Miranda said her genetic modification means she'll live longer than most humans. So could you extend the lifespan of other races? Why aren't we all pushing to live as long as the asari, or the krogan?

I mean I'd think the salarians, at least, would try to extend their lifespans. And since they seem to be the most scientifically talented race you'd think they would have tried something like this by now.

[pprrff]

Shandepared wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I maintain that your argument is actually concerned with semantics, and not legal matters.

One and the same. In any case we don't know what legal stance on this is in the Mass Effect universe. If Shepard screws Liara and a kid pops out 9 months later for all we know he can kick her to the curb and forget about her Liara is helpless in the eyes of the law. We just don't know.

Regardless of what the law says though, I'd maintain that a no non-asari should ever be obligated to care for an asari child unless they legally adopt one.

On top of that, I think the codex clearly stated that Asari is in complete control of their pregnancy, as in if they don't want a offring, they won't have one. All the more reason that the 'mother' should shoulder more burden since it's completely her choice.

[pprrff]

Nightwriter wrote...

Okay, this may be a stupid question, but.... can organics be genetically modified to live longer?

Like I know Miranda said her genetic modification means she'll live longer than most humans. So could you extend the lifespan of other races? Why aren't we all pushing to live as long as the asari, or the krogan?

I mean I'd think the salarians, at least, would try to extend their lifespans. And since they seem to be the most scientifically talented race you'd think they would have tried something like this by now.

I mean a universe that has mass effect field, gene modification shouldn't be that hard. But I think the point is that you can only change your genes so much and still be considered human. Beside, even in real life there has been evidence that there are 'longevity genes', which happens to be a more reliable predictor of life-pan than life styles.

OFF TOPIC : I also heard the complete abstinence prolongs life somewhat (too late for Shepard tho)

[didymos1120]

pprrff wrote...

I mean a universe that has mass effect field, gene modification shouldn't be that hard.

That doesn't follow.  Physics =/= Biology, and advances in one area of technology don't magically bring other areas up to their "level" (whatever that would even mean.  What the hell is the bioscience equivalent of a mass effect drive anyway?).
Not that they can't.  For instance, genetics and biology in general is getting a huge boost thanks to advances in information technology.  But that's not always, or even often, the case.  Most technologies aren't as generally applicable as computers are.

[Nightwriter]

pprrff wrote...

I mean a universe that has mass effect field, gene modification shouldn't be that hard. But I think the point is that you can only change your genes so much and still be considered human. Beside, even in real life there has been evidence that there are 'longevity genes', which happens to be a more reliable predictor of life-pan than life styles.

Our lifespans are already increasing. Just very slowly. You'd think there'd be a way to speed that up.

pprrff wrote...

OFF TOPIC : I also heard the complete abstinence prolongs life somewhat (too late for Shepard tho)

Yes, but the question is, what kind of life would that be?

No kind of life at all, I submit to the courts. No kind of life at all.

[didymos1120]

Nightwriter wrote...
I mean I'd think the salarians, at least, would try to extend their lifespans. And since they seem to be the most scientifically talented race you'd think they would have tried something like this by now.

Maybe they have.  It may simply not be currently possible without also inducing any number of highly non-desirable side-effects. Since we have no specifics on how salarian genetics works, we have no basis for thinking it should to be achievable (or vice versa, for that matter).

[krimesh]

@ didymos1120: I don't want to quote the hole thing again. Yes, you are right they don't say anything like that in the game. It's something I read outside the game. It was written by one of the lead writers however. So it is not clear if it is part of the mass effect universe we are discussing here. I think that the game leaves this matter open for interpretation, at least for now. I prefer to believe that the other parent actually contributes to the child, and that melding is not simply a pointless ritual.

[pprrff]

didymos1120 wrote...

pprrff wrote...

I mean a universe that has mass effect field, gene modification shouldn't be that hard.

That doesn't follow.  Physics =/= Biology, and advances in one area of technology don't magically bring other areas up to their "level" (whatever that would even mean.  What the hell is the bioscience equivalent of a mass effect drive anyway?).
Not that they can't.  For instance, genetics and biology in general is getting a huge boost thanks to advances in information technology.  But that's not always, or even often, the case.  Most technologies aren't as generally applicable as computers are.

I wasn't implying that genetic engineering follows from interstellar travel, I was implying that given all the artistic freedom already being taken on physics in this game, it won't be problem if they decide to do the same genetic technology. But you are right, one thing doesn't have an obvious connection with the other.

[jlb524]

This thread is disgusting. Not the OP, just some of the morons who have posted in it.