167 réponses à ce sujet

[Teknor]

jlb524 wrote...

This thread is disgusting. Not the OP, just some of the morons who have posted in it.

Specify.

[jlb524]

Teknor wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

This thread is disgusting. Not the OP, just some of the morons who have posted in it.

Specify.

Do I really have to?

[inversevideo]

According to the ME 'codex' Asari reproduce the exact same way with each other, as they do with aliens. And the 'father's' genetic code is copied through a melding of nervous system, and those traits are passed on.

http://masseffect.wi...:_Council_Races

"Asari: Biology

Asari have a robust cellular regenerative system. While they do not heal faster than other species, asari are known to reach 1,000 years of age.

Although asari have one gender, they are not asexual. An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring. The second set is altered in a unique process called melding.

During melding, an asari consciously attunes her nervous system to her partner's, sending and receiving electrical impulses directly through the skin. The partner can be another asari, or an alien of either gender. Effectively, the asari and her partner briefly become one unified nervous system.

This unique means of reproduction is the reason asari are talented biotics. Their evolved ability to consciously control nerve impulses is very similar to biotic training. Asari believe that their offspring acquire the best qualities of the "father" from the melded genes, but evidence is anecdotal.

Asari pass through three climacteric life stages, marked by biochemical and physiological changes. The Maiden stage begins at birth and is marked by the drive to explore and experience. Most young asari are curious and restless.

The Matron stage of life begins around the age of 350, though it can be triggered earlier if the individual melds frequently. This period is marked by a desire to settle in one area and raise children.

The Matriarch stage begins around 700, or earlier if the individual melds rarely. Matriarchs become active in their community as sages and councilors, dispensing wisdom from centuries of experience.

While each stage of life is marked by strong biological tendencies, individuals do make unexpected life choices. For example, there are Maidens who stay close to home rather than explore, Matrons who would rather work than build a family, and Matriarchs who have no interest in community affairs."

Modifié par inversevideo, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:27 .

[didymos1120]

inversevideo wrote...

According to the ME 'codex' Asari reproduce the exact same way with each other, as they do with aliens. And the 'father's' genetic code is copied through a melding of nervous system, and those traits are passed on.

If you're gonna quote something as evidence, make sure it says what you think it says:

An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring. The second set is altered in a unique process called melding.

IOW: No genetic material whatsoever comes from the "father".

Asari believe that their offspring acquire the best qualities of the "father" from the melded genes, but evidence is anecdotal.

IOW: There's no actual scientific evidence. They just believe it anyway.

[inversevideo]

didymos1120 wrote...



If you're gonna quote something as evidence, make sure it says what you think it says:

An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring. The second set is altered in a unique process called melding.

Asari believe that their offspring acquire the best qualities of the "father" from the melded genes, but evidence is anecdotal.

IOW: There's no actual scientific evidence. They just believe it anyway.

Please learn to read.

Please go re-read my statement without your slant.  read it word for word, 'sound it out' if need be.


According to the ME 'codex' Asari reproduce the exact same way with
each other, as they do with aliens. And the 'father's' genetic code is
copied through a melding of nervous system, and those traits are passed
on.

Now there is nothing in the above statement that is contradicted by the CODEX.
The father's genetic code is copied, duing the melding, when their nervous systems become one, and the Asari alters a 2nd set of her genes to that of her partners gentic code.  Now if this were not the case, if the partner were not needed as a template, upon which to base the 2nd set of genes, then the Asari could reproduce asexually. But that is not the case, a partner is required, nervous systems are unified, and the 2nd set, of altered genes, is altered to match the partners.

You have a point of view. And I can respect that. But there is no need to be a condescending ASS


"Although asari have one gender, they are not asexual. An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring. The second set is altered in a unique process called melding.
During melding, an asari consciously attunes her nervous system
to her partner's, sending and receiving electrical impulses directly
through the skin. The partner can be another asari, or an alien of either gender. Effectively, the asari and her partner briefly become one unified nervous system.
This unique means of reproduction is the reason asari are talented biotics.
Their evolved ability to consciously control nerve impulses is very
similar to biotic training. Asari believe that their offspring acquire
the best qualities of the "father" from the melded genes, but evidence
is anecdotal."




I'm losing interest.

I should go.

Modifié par inversevideo, 15 juillet 2010 - 05:57 .

[Nightwriter]

jlb524 wrote...

Teknor wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

This thread is disgusting. Not the OP, just some of the morons who have posted in it.

Specify.

Do I really have to?

No.

[didymos1120]

inversevideo wrote...
The father's genetic code is copied, duing the melding, when their nervous systems become one, and the Asari alters a 2nd set of her genes to that of her partners gentic code.

If it were truly copied, then it would be trivial to verify with sequencing. It would in fact be equivalent to the "father" actually providing genetic material the old-fashioned way. I.e. sexual reproduction, just with fewer metabolic demands on the "father". The fact that the only evidence for this belief is anecdotal tells us that this simply does not occur.

Unless you think that the idea to test this has never occurred to any geneticist, asari or otherwise. Or if it has, that no one actually bothered to try it after having it occur. Given that Matriarch Aethyta flat out tells you "The scientists say all that stuff about us getting genetic material from the father is crap", that seems highly unlikely. No, it's asari folk science, at best, and the big tip-off is that they believe that, somehow, only the "best" traits are acquired.

Now if this were not the case, if the partner were not needed as a template, upon which to base the 2nd set of genes, then the Asari could reproduce asexually. But that is not the case, a partner is required, nervous systems are unified, and the 2nd set, of altered genes, is altered to match the partners.

Again: then you could do the asari equivalent of a paternity test with ease, and the evidence would be anything but anecdotal. And they do reproduce asexually:

An all-female race, the asari reproduce through a form of parthenogenesis.

Parthenogeneis is a form of asexual reproduction, so a form of parthenogenesis is also a form of asexual reproduction. Yes, I realize the codex says "they are not asexual." It's misleading, because while it may appear to refer to reproduction, it actually refers to asexuality in the "lack of sexual interest or behavior" sense; and that latter sort of asexual the asari certainly are not.

Oh, and what's more, there just so happens to be an actual parthenogenetic species, the New Mexico Whiptail, that engages in a form of mating behavior very similar to the asari (well, minus the eezo-mediated mind-melding, or whatever it is that's actually going on during the process):

The New Mexico Whiptail Lizard is a crossbreed of a Western Whiptail which lives in the desert and the Little Striped Whiptail that favours grasslands. The lizard is a female-only species that reproduces by producing an egg through parthenogenesis. Because the genetic information has already been recombined in meiosis, the offspring is not a perfect clone. Despite being an all female species, the whiptail still engages in "mock mating" with other members of its own species, giving rise to the common nickname "lesbian lizards".

So the fact that a partner is needed doesn't necessarily mean much besides "a partner is needed".

And all of that doesn't even go into the notion that this gene copying is supposed to work with fathers from species with opposite-chirality biochemistry. Or, for non-asari fathers in general, that these copied genes somehow just slot into the asari genome, no problem, and produce the same (or nearly the same) phenotypic result as they do in an utterly unrelated species with significantly different physiology and biochemistry that are the product of billions of years of evolution of life on a totally different planet. How would that even work? Life on this planet doesn't even use a universal genetic code. Close to it, but there are numerous variant codes out there. Some organisms even use different amino acids.

Taking all that into account just nails the traits-from-pseudo-biodad coffin shut all over again, pours gasoline on it, and lights it on fire. The idea just does not hold up at all.

You have a point of view. And I can respect that. But there is no need to be a condescending ASS

Complaints about tone from the person who just told me to "learn to read" and "'sound it out' if need be"? :happy:

What I wrote was hardly all that harsh, merely mildly mocking.

Modifié par didymos1120, 15 juillet 2010 - 07:10 .

[piemanz]

Since asari rarely mate with their own species and only Krogan come anywhere close to their life span ,i would imagine the asari would have evolved certain methods with dealing with the death of their spouses.

[Pacifien]

piemanz wrote...
Since asari rarely mate with their own species and only Krogan come anywhere close to their life span ,i would imagine the asari would have evolved certain methods with dealing with the death of their spouses.

"The important thing is to appreciate the time you have to spend with a fish."
"Is this the lifespan talk? We're not having the lifespan talk!"

I have no idea what's been going on in this thread, I just wanted to quote that.

[Nightwriter]

yorkj86 wrote...

As stated before, Liara has her doubts about the genetic processes that take place during conception.

The Asari on Illium, with the Krogan suitor, tells us that Asari don't use any of the genetic material taken from the father, they just use it to start the process of randomizing their own genetic information to pass it on to the child.

I've never really known what that means, either.

What, they need someone else's DNA to mix things up a bit? Without a mate, would the asari just produce complete clones of themselves or something?

I remember Erinya saying the same result could be achieved with a little radiation... poor, sad Erinya...

[The BS Police]

Lyrandori wrote...

º Shepard will die between the age of 80 - 150 years-old (not stating as fact, only repeating my opinions)

I beg to differ, Miranda stated that due to her enhancements and upgrades she will live longer than most humans. Shepard was completely rebuilt with cybernetic parts and of course other unknown cutting edge tech, imagine how long he will live... aslong as he isn't Killed In Action of course.

[jlb524]

The BS Police wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

º Shepard will die between the age of 80 - 150 years-old (not stating as fact, only repeating my opinions)

I beg to differ, Miranda stated that due to her enhancements and upgrades she will live longer than most humans. Shepard was completely rebuilt with cybernetic parts and of course other unknown cutting edge tech, imagine how long he will live... aslong as he isn't Killed In Action of course.

Still, Shepard won't live nearly as long as Liara will....there's going to be a huge discrepancy if both live out full lives.

[Siansonea]

First, the discussion about asari reproduction is pointless. BioWare has been far too vague for there to be any definitive answers in this area. We have to adopt an agnostic approach to this subject, at least until they give us more information.



Why is 'until death do us part' the only definition of a successful relationship? It's an awfully romantic notion, but let's face it, in real life romance wears off quickly, as anyone over the age of 30 or so knows all too well.



There's no reason to think the situation would be any different between humans and asari than it is between humans. People change, feelings change, and circumstances change. Relationships often don't withstand those changes. It's just the way it is. The high drama of loved ones pining endlessly for a lost love is rather silly when you think about it.



I imagine Liara would grieve over Shepard for a few years, then find someone else to fall in love with. "Falling in love" is not some sort of spiritual nirvana, it's a biological imperative designed to motivate humans into mating behavior that will produce offspring. I imagine it is the same for asari.



And who's to say that the Shepard/asari relationship would only end if Shepard dies? Shepard and an asari could have a successful relationship for a number of years, then part ways well before either of them dies. Or the asari could die before Shepard.



Really, I don't think very many species would consider romantic pairings to automatically be "for life". Asari especially would realize how unrealistic that is. And this rarely happens among human-only pairings, why would it be expected in a human-asari pairing?



As for dealing with the death of a mate, I'm sure the asari deal with it the same way humans do, through processing grief. Look at Erinya on Illium, she's still grieving for her asari mate 300 years after her death. Other asari presumably handle it a little better. There is a wide variety of asari personalities in the ME universe, and I expect a wide variety of attitudes toward the subject.

[Siansonea]

Shandepared wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

First, the discussion about asari reproduction is pointless. BioWare has been far too vague for there to be any definitive answers in this area. We have to adopt an agnostic approach to this subject, at least until they give us more information.

They've been straightforward about it actually. An asari child is always an asari, it will never be yours.

Yeah. And all the other speculation about it is pretty pointless. How the melding influences the genetic code of the daughter, etc. The endless back-and-forth about whether asari are female, etc. It's all been rehashed many times before. It's a well-worn tangent in any thread that discusses the asari.

[didymos1120]

Shandepared wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

First, the discussion about asari reproduction is pointless. BioWare has been far too vague for there to be any definitive answers in this area. We have to adopt an agnostic approach to this subject, at least until they give us more information.

They've been straightforward about it actually. An asari child is always an asari, it will never be yours.

In fact, it seems almost like they went out of their way in ME2 to say "No. They do not get any genes at all from other species. Seriously.  We really mean it people."

[didymos1120]

Shandepared wrote...

We've known that since ME1 though.

Oh I agree, but in ME2 they stuck in two NPCs, fully-voiced , that flat out tell you: "No, it's nonsense."  Liara just expressed a bit of easily-missed/misinterpreted skepticism, and the codex, while clear enough for the most part, also tends get skimmed. Plus, it can be a bit misleading.

[SaltBot]

didymos1120 wrote...
You mean Maiden stage. The Matron stage is when their biological alarm clock goes off and they start having kids.

Yes, sorry.  Replace every instance of "Matron" with "Maiden".  That is
what I meant.

Modifié par SaltBot, 15 juillet 2010 - 11:38 .

[angj57]

yorkj86 wrote...


Additionally, I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment of Asari being manipulative and dominating the galaxy through reproduction.  It's Malthusian doomsaying, bordering on paranoia.  I won't even bring up the possible future scenarios your stance could bring about.

Some of them obviously do. Just talk to Aria, she will freely admit that she and her Asari gained dominion over Omega by through sex, and she basically says it is an advantage of being Asari. In a more benign way, the consort basically maintains power and influence on the Citadel in the same way. Honestly, I don't think Morinth is as different from other Asari as they would like to think.

Then again, other Asari characters seem to be pretty nice and genuine. I like Liara. But... Liara is very young by Asari standards.

As far as the genes/reproduction debate goes, if a child inherited traits from its father, some of those traits would HAVE to affect physical appearence, which they clearly are not, because Asari appearence does not vary based on the species of the father. Anyone who argues anything to the contrary clearly doesn't understand genetics. Actually I am glad that they wrote it this way, because it is inconcievable that two species which evolved on different planets could truly create viable offspring.

That said, obviously a child will learn from whoever is raising them. When the Asari bartender says "I got my father's mouth", that is obviously what she means. If Shepard and Liara were to have a child, Shepard would be the child's father, but the child's DNA would come entirely from Liara. The oddest thing about the situation is that the "childhood" would last something like forty years-- Shepard is 31 in ME2 and would be 71 by the time the child were mature.

Modifié par angj57, 16 juillet 2010 - 04:27 .