167 réponses à ce sujet

[inversevideo]

didymos1120 wrote...

Complaints about tone from the person who just told me to "learn to read" and "'sound it out' if need be"? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

What I wrote was hardly all that harsh, merely mildly mocking.

Ordinarilly I have a 'thicker skin', and a bit of snarkyness does not phase me.
My response, to your mocking, was out of proportion and I apologize.

inversevideo wrote...
The father's genetic code is copied,
duing the melding, when their nervous systems become one, and the Asari
alters a 2nd set of her genes to that of her partners gentic code.

didymos1120 wrote..
And all of that doesn't even go into the notion that this gene copying is supposed to work with fathers from species with opposite-chirality biochemistry. Or, for non-asari fathers in general, that these copied genes somehow just slot into the asari genome, no problem, and produce the same (or nearly the same) phenotypic result as they do in an utterly unrelated species with significantly different physiology and biochemistry that are the product of billions of years of evolution of life on a totally different planet. How would that even work? Life on this planet doesn't even use a universal genetic code. Close to it, but there are numerous variant codes out there. Some organisms even use different amino acids.

Not ignoring the rest of your reply, you have well thought out reasons against contributions from the father, and we could argue that all day. I just think it all boils down to the above observation, which is something that has bothered me since we first met Liara.

How does a race evolve that can mate with other sentient species (as opposed to lower life forms, 'animals'), species, non-native to their world, when their biology should not be able to develop to handle such species as they have not yet had contact with such species?  This was all thrown out there, in ME1, along with talk of the 'Enkindlers' , Protheans who tinkered with life.  The fact that every other species looks alien, and the Asari look like human females, is also puzzling.  I've often wondered if the 12 Prothean survivors of the Conduit project (vigil said there were twelve), dabbled in genetic engineering, after they reached the Citiadel, and reprogrammed the Keepers?  There is air and seemingly endless power-supply, on the Citiadel, and according to Bailey (in ME2) protein vats, maintained by the Keepers, in the bowels of the Citadel. Assuming that the '12' did not just step through the Conduit, unprepared, as it would be a one-way trip, they may have sent some tools through, computers, cryo-genic sleep chambers, etc.; with a mission to repopulate the galaxy. Maybe, they visited Earth, took samples, modified human females, into Asari, and tuned their biology such that they could reproduce and perhaps store, within their genetic code, the 'best' traits of other specied.

Yep, it is all speculation, on my part.

But I do agree with you that it seems unlikely that the Asari could develop the trait to mate with species, not native to thier world, naturally; as such species would develop outside the Asari world eco-system,. Where is the 'pressure' to develop such a trait/ability? 

Yet Bioware, worked this into the story, from the beginning. 
I suspect we might learn more abouot this in ME3, unless BW intends to just leave it as a mystery.

Modifié par inversevideo, 16 juillet 2010 - 01:58 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Funny thing is that (i think- since there is no indication in codex who lead Council peace delegation but somehow i think it was no other than Benezia herself (eyebrows painting?) ) thanks to those "so despicable and sneaky" Asari humanity is still independent galactic entity instead of being another Turian colony after F.C War



I seriously can imagine how really dark is Shand's world whit so huge level of hatred and xeno-racism... and that's not a pretty picture after all...

[Siansonea]

Lyrandori wrote...

@ NephilimNexus

You're basically saying that romancing Liara is like romancing a 16 years-old human, and that's not the case, even a "barely adult" Asari of 106 years-old can quite act like and have the maturity of a 30 years-old human, the body of Liara is mature enough that she feels comfortable with a romance, and no one within the very games themselves speak against Shepard if he/she decides to couple with Liara "despite her age", in other words it doesn't look like within the ME universe itself being in a close relationship with a 106 years-old Maiden Asari is considered morally wrong. But it wasn't the subject at hand anyway. I never implied the moral implications of a human being coupled with a young Asari equivalently aged like a 16 years-old human anywhere in my original post.

Anyway, this thread derailed a bit (a lot) from the original subject since a couple of pages already. We went from "how to cope with the death of a loved one for centuries" to genetics, reproduction, inheritance of behavioral traits, DNA, mind-melding, sex influence, galactic-scale species domination through manipulation... and a couple of other things I was never expecting. It's like the phone game, you know, having around a dozen people sitting in circle, one person whispers something very specific to the neighbor's ear so that no one else can hear what it is, then the neighbor is supposed to repeat exactly that same thing to the next neighbor, and so on to the next until the circle is complete, then at the end the first person who spoke something finally hears the message from the person before him/her, and then needs to say out loud what it was... thing is that it's never exactly coming out as it was spoken, such is the life of a thread I guess.

I tried to address your original points in my first post in this thread, I'm sorry if I contributed to its derailment. I do think that like humans, asari don't necessarily 'mate for life' anyway, and simply grieve for a time before going on to the next relationship. The idea that Liara would mourn for Shepard for centuries after his/her death is very dramatic and even 'romantic' by some people's standards, but I think she would just throw herself into her work for a few decades, and then meet someone else at some point and start a new relationship. Liara isn't anywhere near her Matron stage, and when she does hit that 'change of life', I'm certain she'll be a lot more open to a new romance. Shepard will be a cherished memory of her Maiden years, and that's probably the extent of it.

[jlb524]

Siansonea II wrote...

I tried to address your original points in my first post in this thread, I'm sorry if I contributed to its derailment. I do think that like humans, asari don't necessarily 'mate for life' anyway, and simply grieve for a time before going on to the next relationship. The idea that Liara would mourn for Shepard for centuries after his/her death is very dramatic and even 'romantic' by some people's standards, but I think she would just throw herself into her work for a few decades, and then meet someone else at some point and start a new relationship. Liara isn't anywhere near her Matron stage, and when she does hit that 'change of life', I'm certain she'll be a lot more open to a new romance. Shepard will be a cherished memory of her Maiden years, and that's probably the extent of it.

Well said, and I agree 100%.

[lovgreno]

inversevideo wrote...

How does a race evolve that can mate with other sentient species (as opposed to lower life forms, 'animals'), species, non-native to their world, when their biology should not be able to develop to handle such species as they have not yet had contact with such species?  This was all thrown out there, in ME1, along with talk of the 'Enkindlers' , Protheans who tinkered with life.  The fact that every other species looks alien, and the Asari look like human females, is also puzzling.  I've often wondered if the 12 Prothean survivors of the Conduit project (vigil said there were twelve), dabbled in genetic engineering, after they reached the Citiadel, and reprogrammed the Keepers?  There is air and seemingly endless power-supply, on the Citiadel, and according to Bailey (in ME2) protein vats, maintained by the Keepers, in the bowels of the Citadel. Assuming that the '12' did not just step through the Conduit, unprepared, as it would be a one-way trip, they may have sent some tools through, computers, cryo-genic sleep chambers, etc.; with a mission to repopulate the galaxy. Maybe, they visited Earth, took samples, modified human females, into Asari, and tuned their biology such that they could reproduce and perhaps store, within their genetic code, the 'best' traits of other specied.

Yep, it is all speculation, on my part.

But I do agree with you that it seems unlikely that the Asari could develop the trait to mate with species, not native to thier world, naturally; as such species would develop outside the Asari world eco-system,. Where is the 'pressure' to develop such a trait/ability? 

Yet Bioware, worked this into the story, from the beginning. 
I suspect we might learn more abouot this in ME3, unless BW intends to just leave it as a mystery.

Well, that is certanly a interesting idea that could be worked into the story with the help of some plot devices. The prothean ruins on Mars could also be a clue to support this.
But honestly I just think it was a bit of bad imagination that made the writers make asari look like squigheaded humans. They did a good job of making the other races look exotic but just not in the case of the asari.

[tonnactus]

angj57 wrote...

Some of them obviously do. Just talk to Aria, she will freely admit that she and her Asari gained dominion over Omega by through sex, and she basically says it is an advantage of being Asari.

Aria dont. She fought(with weapons and biotics) against the krogan and won. She just take adavantage from controlling some dancers/****s.

[Ninniach Lina]

Shep-Shep is so badass that he will find the potion of immortality and outlive all Asari. True story.



But yeah, it is kinda sad, I feel like the Asari are kinda heartless for letting other races love them even though they know they will just move on after they die.

[Siansonea]

??? Where does the idea come from that other races will automatically remain devoted to an asari partner until they die? Very few relationships are lifelong among humans, why would we imagine humans would suddenly become pair-bonded for life with an asari? Sure some might, but I doubt the majority would. We humans are a fickle lot.

[maegi46]

A bit off topic for a second, but most vampire stories show us how pained a vampire is because anyone they love is going to die and they will be left to mourn and grieve for an eternity, ie in Twilight, thats why he spurns her love and tries to make her forget about him. The asari are very similar in this aspect, knowing they will outlive almost any lover of any other race, if it so happened to be the "love of a lifetime". I admit those are rare but Liara strikes me as that kind of Asari, she would have very deep and spiritual feelings and be closely bonded to Shep and probably love him or her like no one else ever could. Yes I'm a romantic sort but thats my take. I could actually see her trying to push Shepard away for these very reasons.



Shep is eventually going to be an old man and she will be reaching the prime of her life and sexuality and motherhood years without him around. It's sad to consider. They could ignore that truth and just live for the moment and appreciate each other as long as it lasts and just accept that it will end, like all things do eventually.



I'm not really sure how Asaris work as far as children go but in human terms, daughters tend to bond more with their fathers and sons with their mothers. So a child born to Liara and Shep if they follow human pyschology would be more bonded with Shep and would probably pick up a lot of his traits and be "Daddy's girl"

[Siansonea]

All I can say is, wait until you hit your 40s. If you're still a romantic by then, I will be very surprised. I think most people who are 'middle-aged' like myself have a much more pragmatic view of human relationships. We've learned through experience that the romantic fantasy of fiction is unrealistic in the extreme. Twilight, romance novels and Madison Avenue would have you all believe otherwise, which is why they focus so much of their budget on reaching those consumers who have not yet seen 'the man behind the curtain', i.e. teens and twentysomethings. Even some thirtysomethings seem to have problems learning that particular life lesson sometimes, but I've met very few people my own age who still believe in 'the one'.

[Siansonea]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
 'middle-aged'

Henceforth you shall not utter this blasphemous word again Sian.

My apologies JD, just trying to speak in terms that the young whippersnappers would understand...

[Mecha Tengu]

that TLDR version was awesome lol



Liara is very scary obsessive, she will: make shepard immortal (potion, transport his brain into a robot body), follow shepard into a certain death situation so they can die together, or simply an hero after he has died

[lovgreno]

Siansonea II wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
 'middle-aged'

Henceforth you shall not utter this blasphemous word again Sian.

My apologies JD, just trying to speak in terms that the young whippersnappers would understand...

Oh I assure you that us who grew up in the cynical nineties are jaded enough to be practical enough to not have a too romantical wiev of things.

[maegi46]

Siansonea II wrote...

All I can say is, wait until you hit your 40s. If you're still a romantic by then, I will be very surprised. I think most people who are 'middle-aged' like myself have a much more pragmatic view of human relationships. We've learned through experience that the romantic fantasy of fiction is unrealistic in the extreme. Twilight, romance novels and Madison Avenue would have you all believe otherwise, which is why they focus so much of their budget on reaching those consumers who have not yet seen 'the man behind the curtain', i.e. teens and twentysomethings. Even some thirtysomethings seem to have problems learning that particular life lesson sometimes, but I've met very few people my own age who still believe in 'the one'.

I am a 47 year old man, so um ok I don't see why being older should jade us or make you think true love doesn't exist. Quite the opposite actually, by the time you're our age you have probably been married or at least been in a few relationships that have ended for one reason or another. I'm not naive enough to think all relationships are going to last forever. Most do not. I have been married twice and had other relationships outside of being married as well. I know it takes work and it takes 2. If you both understand that people can and will change and can communicate and want things to last, then they can. So when you do find that right person, you should consider yourself very fortunate and hold onto them.

Back on topic, I see Liara as someone capable of being a very loving caring , nurturing type of person who would be a great mate for Shep or whoever she falls in love with. All this is my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Modifié par maegi46, 16 juillet 2010 - 10:25 .

[angj57]

It just occured to me that I don't think we have seen any Asari-Salarian pairs in game. I guess that would make sense, a Salarian would be guaranteed to die before their child would have grown up.

[Siansonea]

maegi46 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

All I can say is, wait until you hit your 40s. If you're still a romantic by then, I will be very surprised. I think most people who are 'middle-aged' like myself have a much more pragmatic view of human relationships. We've learned through experience that the romantic fantasy of fiction is unrealistic in the extreme. Twilight, romance novels and Madison Avenue would have you all believe otherwise, which is why they focus so much of their budget on reaching those consumers who have not yet seen 'the man behind the curtain', i.e. teens and twentysomethings. Even some thirtysomethings seem to have problems learning that particular life lesson sometimes, but I've met very few people my own age who still believe in 'the one'.

I am a 47 year old man, so um ok I don't see why being older should jade us or make you think true love doesn't exist. Quite the opposite actually, by the time you're our age you have probably been married or at least been in a few relationships that have ended for one reason or another. I'm not naive enough to think all relationships are going to last forever. Most do not. I have been married twice and had other relationships outside of being married as well. I know it takes work and it takes 2. If you both understand that people can and will change and can communicate and want things to last, then they can. So when you do find that right person, you should consider yourself very fortunate and hold onto them.

Back on topic, I see Liara as someone capable of being a very loving caring , nurturing type of person who would be a great mate for Shep or whoever she falls in love with. All this is my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Hmm. I think humans make more out of "love" than it actually is. It is simply a function of brain chemistry, our bodies' way of attempting to induce the individual into initiating a pair bond, and potentially produce offspring. "True love" is a nonsensical concept, since love is a purely subjective phenomenon. The intensity of the subjective emotion as experienced by the individual has no bearing on how 'true' the condition is. All experiences of love are equally true for the individual experiencing the emotion. Whether or not a pair bond lasts for 7 days or 7 decades has more to do with other factors like overall personality compatibility, etc., than the strength of the emotion the individuals experience. If anything I think an overly intense emotional component is counterproductive to a lasting pair bond.

I think because the emotion we call love is experienced as a type of euphoria initially, we humans tend to overly mythologize it. I think that is unfortunate, and leads to very skewed ideas of what relationships 'should' be.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 16 juillet 2010 - 10:58 .

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

It's right there in the codex how the asari spread their influence. All I did was connect the dots between their position in society, their biology, and their espoused philosophy.

Next to the Reapers they are humanity's greatest threat.

You're so funny.

The galaxy would be a better place if only the asari existed, or if only the asari were in power. It would be a good thing.

They're fair, they're not prone to war, they seek to understand other life forms and their native culture is so peaceful that they actually never found a need for unified government.

If you think they're a threat, you're wrong. They do not want galactic domination, or they would have it.

[MadInfiltrator]

Does anyone else just think that Liara has an unhealthy obsession with Shepard?
Cause i think shes ****in nuts.

Modifié par MadInfiltrator, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:09 .

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

For the asari it would be. However any species would be better off if they and they alone existed. Neighbors are not welcome.

You are quite wrong. As Johnny said, the asari are nothing but cooperative. They show nothing but an interest to learn about and coexist with their fellow neighbors.

Shandepared wrote...

They're a threat to human sovereignity.

Ah. The real truth.

Shand, do not say they are a threat to humanity when what you really mean is they are a threat to your personal megalomaniacal God complex.

The two are very different things.

[jlb524]

MadInfiltrator wrote...

Does anyone else just think that Liara has an unhealthy obsession with Shepard?
Cause i think shes ****in nuts.

Eh, no.

[Barquiel]

MadInfiltrator wrote...

Does anyone else just think that Liara has an unhealthy obsession with Shepard?

Well, as you know, she has her own agenda in ME2...no unhealthy Shepard obsession.