72 réponses à ce sujet

[Livemmo]

Ecael wrote...

ZtalkerRM wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Isn't Assassin's Creed 2 a single-player game, though?

Quite ironic isn't it? But I suspect single player games are the ones pirated the most....

Wait...

So if you buy the game, you have to be online all the time to play it...

But if you pirate the game and crack it, you can play it whenever you want, regardless of internet?

Yep. Funny how that works huh?

[Oldenglishcdr]

Livemmo wrote...

It makes no sense. Put out a good product and dont rush it and people will buy your game. You cant stop piracy so stop trying. You're only hurting your customers.

You do realise Pirates are hurting game companies in lost sales which means they are either going to, a)increase the cost of the games retail price to recover money lost through piracy, b)put in place some form of Piracy measure (I don't condone this DRM though), or c)Heaven forbid, the company in question is forced to shut up shop.

[ToJKa1]

Even funnier is that if you buy it, they see that you are comfortable with the DRM. If you don't buy it, you propably pirated it, and thus the next game requires heavier DRM

I haven't seen BW representatives lamenting over piracy, so i'd suspect DA2 will have similar DRM as Origins, which i'm cool with.

Livemmo wrote...

It makes no sense. Put out a good product
and dont rush it and people will buy your game. You cant stop piracy so
stop trying. You're only hurting your customers.

I like the way CEO of Stardock said it: "My job isn't to stop world-wide piracy, my job is to sell games" (or something pretty close to that).

Modifié par ToJKa1, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:19 .

[Eshme]

Oldenglishcdr wrote..

You do realise Pirates are hurting game companies in lost sales which means they are either going to, a)increase the cost of the games retail price to recover money lost through piracy, b)put in place some form of Piracy measure (I don't condone this DRM though), or c)Heaven forbid, the company in question is forced to shut up shop.

I think it does not suit gamers to praise higher prices, stronger drm ,and fear of lost sales. And game creators should be selling games , like the quote from Stardock said, instead of whine before their gamers.

Modifié par Eshme, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:33 .

[Rubbish Hero]

I had some pretty big problems with Dragon Age's DLC. At once point I had to reload an hour or back due to Armour disappearing.

[DeepGray]

Oldenglishcdr wrote...

You do realise Pirates are hurting game companies in lost sales

You have no proof of that. If you do, I'd like to see it.

[Prudii Aden]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I had some pretty big problems with Dragon Age's DLC. At once point I had to reload an hour or back due to Armour disappearing.

That's more likely to be a bug than a DRM issue.

[MaaZeus]

DeepGray wrote...

Oldenglishcdr wrote...

You do realise Pirates are hurting game companies in lost sales

You have no proof of that. If you do, I'd like to see it.

I think it is quite obvious that piracy DOES hurt sales somewhat, (thinking otherwise is quite naive in my eyes) but definetly not to the extent antipiracy companies claim. I have said it before that if game is good and especially if you already have a fanbase behind your company, game will sell and make profit and people stay as fans. Games like Oblivion (which had practically no copy protection) are a proof.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 14 juillet 2010 - 06:58 .

[FDrage]

MaaZeus wrote...


I think it is quite obvious that piracy DOES hurt sales somewhat, (thinking otherwise is quite naive in my eyes) but definetly not to the extent antipiracy companies claim. I have said it before that if game is good and especially if you already have a fanbase behind your company, game will sell and make profit and people stay as fans. Games like Oblivion (which had practically no copy protection) are a proof.

I don't think it is any more naive then thinking the pirates woiuld actualkly pay for the game if piracy wouldn't be possible at all. While it still means lost sales but to the extent game companies or should I say DRM providers make it seem to be I doubt.
Further more, at least publicly, publishers don't inlcude any analysis how much they've lost due to implementation of DRM or just plain bad game design ... but afterall it is only the pirates fault.

[phordicus]

why is this a concern? one-time online validation for DLC and just a disk check to play? i'd say their current scheme is perfect.

[Jimbe2693]

DRM is fairly pointless, considering pirates will end up cracking it regardless, it hurts only legitimate customers.

[Chairon de Celeste]

Um...  any facts that indicate the integration of drm
into DA II RtP or just speculation?

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 15 juillet 2010 - 09:30 .

[Lord Gremlin]

DRM is part of reason I buy games for PS3, if PS3 version is available. I've had just enough of it on PC. Now I only agree to tolerate Steam. Because it's more of a shop and auto-update/repair tool.

[ZtalkerRM]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Even funnier is that if you buy it, they see that you are comfortable with the DRM. If you don't buy it, you propably pirated it, and thus the next game requires heavier DRM

It's a strange thing indeed.
The problem doesn't start at Bioware or Ubisoft though. It starts with people who steal games. It's as simple as that. And I think it can be solved too. Just put the penalties for stealing 'real' products on digital products too. Fines of thousands of dollars, some months in prison with a guy named bubba...

I hope Bioware will keep it up. The Stone Prisoner and Ceberus Network thing were excellent ideas. Because people who downloaded the game would need to pay for those as well, making sure people who honestly bought the game would get a more complete experience.

[FDrage]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Even funnier is that if you buy it, they see that you are comfortable with the DRM. If you don't buy it, you propably pirated it, and thus the next game requires heavier DRM

or you just simply have to life with the fact that you can never play the game if you don't want to support a specific DRM system ... I mean you know you can not buy a game and not priate it at the same time. one just needs to live with "not being able to play it". The funny thing is ... this probably never be able to be quantifly shown in anyway shape or form.

ZtalkerRM wrote...
It's a strange thing indeed.
The problem doesn't start at Bioware or Ubisoft though. It starts with people who steal games. It's as simple as that. And I think it can be solved too. Just put the penalties for stealing 'real' products on digital products too. Fines of thousands of dollars, some months in prison with a guy named bubba...

I hope Bioware will keep it up. The Stone Prisoner and Ceberus Network thing were excellent ideas. Because people who downloaded the game would need to pay for those as well, making sure people who honestly bought the game would get a more complete experience.

at least Biowares lates tried to "offer" something for first-time buyers, aka tried to make it a  more "positive" thing then a negative thing. :happy: So these things can be probably just as easily cracked as a base game ... I would assume.

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

Um...  any facts that indicate
the integration of drm
into DA II RtP or just speculation?

Don't think so ... only thing I can recall is some quited from an other thread abut "considering" and "listening to fan feedback" in regards to what kind of DRM was implemented in the recent Bioware games. Actually it was referenced earlier in this thread. Even sot it relates to ME3 I would assume it similary applies to DA2.

I doubt that in this still early stage of information realse they would mention anything as definite in terms of what kind of DRM they'll implement,

Modifié par FDrage, 15 juillet 2010 - 11:21 .

[Lyna357]

If they put DRM that requires that kind of restrictions in any game I will not buy it, simple as that.

Modifié par Lyna357, 15 juillet 2010 - 11:23 .

[Livemmo]

ZtalkerRM wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

Even funnier is that if you buy it, they see that you are comfortable with the DRM. If you don't buy it, you propably pirated it, and thus the next game requires heavier DRM

It's a strange thing indeed.
The problem doesn't start at Bioware or Ubisoft though. It starts with people who steal games. It's as simple as that. And I think it can be solved too. Just put the penalties for stealing 'real' products on digital products too. Fines of thousands of dollars, some months in prison with a guy named bubba...

I hope Bioware will keep it up. The Stone Prisoner and Ceberus Network thing were excellent ideas. Because people who downloaded the game would need to pay for those as well, making sure people who honestly bought the game would get a more complete experience.

Piracy isnt theft and those people that downloaded the game can still get all dlc. Sometimes they even get it sooner than paying customers (RTO).

Please people if you dont know anything about the subject go do your research before you comment. Piracy isnt theft it's an excuse used to release bad games and blame bad sales on it. Those people who download the game illegally arent going to suddenly jump up and started purchasing it if piracy didnt exist. It's a theoritical arguement that has been discussed many MANY times over.

Basically, if piracy was theft 99% of you should be locked up for visiting youtube and listening to your favorite song when youre bored. Almost ALL of you are guilty of piracy in some case or another no matter how petty the infraction may be and thus should all be locked away in prison.. amiright?

[TomasKratky1]

  I believe that the current BioWare's DRM used in DAO and ME2 works pretty well, so I can't see a reason why they should change it.
  At BioWare they obviously figured that better than punish people for not buying the game is reward them for buying it. I could obviously download and crack the games, but I bought them and after installing all the DLCs for DAO and ME2, I felt like I was rewarded for doing so. I know, you could say that I could download and crack the DLCs too, but it would mean finding new cracks, experimenting with them and so on, while when playing original, I just bought and played, never had a problem with this. That's just how it should work, the legal customer has more fun and less troubles with the game, not the opposite.

  Thus I hope they will keep it for DA2, too.

[Livemmo]

TomasKratky1 wrote...

  I believe that the current BioWare's DRM used in DAO and ME2 works pretty well, so I can't see a reason why they should change it.
  At BioWare they obviously figured that better than punish people for not buying the game is reward them for buying it. I could obviously download and crack the games, but I bought them and after installing all the DLCs for DAO and ME2, I felt like I was rewarded for doing so. I know, you could say that I could download and crack the DLCs too, but it would mean finding new cracks, experimenting with them and so on, while when playing original, I just bought and played, never had a problem with this. That's just how it should work, the legal customer has more fun and less troubles with the game, not the opposite.

  Thus I hope they will keep it for DA2, too.

Well I think the idea of a forum that only people who registered the game could use was a very nice "reward" for paying customers. Not only that but we have little give aways and stuff here too (even though I never win anything ).

I agree though it is better to reward the customer than punish both the pirate and the customer. Bioware might have the right idea but I wonder how long before EA decides to just punish everyone again "just because we can".

[Nerevar-as]

If they go Ubisoft I won´t get it, no game is worth it. Not DA2, ME3 or even Witcher 2 (there were concers here as the distributor agrees with Ubi, but it seems the creators had the word).

Problem is not creators, who usually understand players, but the higher-ups who don´t. In the end AC2 and others got cracked (and some people claim it runs better without the nedd to be connected), and many others who would have bought the game didn´t or pirated it.

[Livemmo]

Nerevar-as wrote...

If they go Ubisoft I won´t get it, no game is worth it. Not DA2, ME3 or even Witcher 2 (there were concers here as the distributor agrees with Ubi, but it seems the creators had the word).
Problem is not creators, who usually understand players, but the higher-ups who don´t. In the end AC2 and others got cracked (and some people claim it runs better without the nedd to be connected), and many others who would have bought the game didn´t or pirated it.

And this is exactly the problem. AC2 is cracked and has been cracked since a month after release. The only reason it took them a full month to crack it is because people never seen this type of DRM before. Now that its been done, Im sure its only going to be quicker next time.

Now heres where this starts to ****** people off. With AC2 cracked theres simply no need to have the DRM anymore. I remember the devs boasting about it telling people theyll never crack it. Guess what? 1 month later its cracked. Now paying customers still have to deal with servers and crashes and the inability to play the game THEY purchased whenever they want ....for what? Theyre not hurting the pirates theyre hurting their customers.

This is why it makes no sense.

edit:

id also like to add that not only does the drm do what ive posted above, but it also creates pirates or forces people to stop playing their games because they dont want to deal with the crap. I refuse to buy ubisoft games even though I enjoy them. I love AC and splinter cell but im not going to deal with being called a criminal after I purchased your game. So now they not only are treating their customers like crap but now theyre actually losing customers and making more pirates.

Modifié par Livemmo, 15 juillet 2010 - 11:48 .

[MaaZeus]

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

Um...  any facts that indicate the integration of drm
into DA II RtP or just speculation?

No of course not. This thread is just a wish that Bioware/EA keeps their DRM stuff atleast on same lever they are not. Like, one-time online activation of DLC and whatever. After the thing Ubisoft pulled, some gamers are getting quite worried that same trend continues.

[Chairon de Celeste]

Well, UbiSoft has reasons to be worried - given that enough players prove their
implementation of  drm renders the affected games almost unplayable wich
isn't hard to do.

The da o implementation is a nuisance as it is, but I can still live with it,
given the occasional remote server inacesscabilities during ombat or
companian and hero levelup, according to my logs are what ctd's the game
righjt then - messages on or off has no effect there. Otherwise the server
hickups just kick me out of the game flow by pausing it.

I doubt  the current drm level will be altered for RtP.

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 15 juillet 2010 - 03:29 .

[ZtalkerRM]

Livemmo wrote...
Piracy isnt theft and those people that downloaded the game can still get all dlc. Sometimes they even get it sooner than paying customers (RTO).

Please people if you dont know anything about the subject go do your research before you comment. Piracy isnt theft it's an excuse used to release bad games and blame bad sales on it. Those people who download the game illegally arent going to suddenly jump up and started purchasing it if piracy didnt exist. It's a theoritical arguement that has been discussed many MANY times over.

Basically, if piracy was theft 99% of you should be locked up for visiting youtube and listening to your favorite song when youre bored. Almost ALL of you are guilty of piracy in some case or another no matter how petty the infraction may be and thus should all be locked away in prison.. amiright?

I laughed so hard.
Grab a dictionary and search for the word 'piracy' it should be under the 'P' section. Ironic that you claim it isn't theft when sites like Piratebay get kicked in the butt legally, like here in Holland. They are doing nothing wrong right?
And yes, you are right. It's a start to prosecute people who create sites that share illegal stuff. Not talking prison, but fines would be a start.

Music is more difficult, but I-tunes proves it doesnt have to be. Prosecuting everyone who downloaded a certain MP-3 is impossible, but making it impossible to download, or offering better alternatives isn't.

The definition of stealing is 'grabbing something that isn't yours.' Sharing it is, in my book, a bit worse.

But I'll go on-topic now, like you said, this has been discusses many times over.

OT: Maybe someone at Bioware coul respond with what kind of copyright protection system they'd like personally? Or maybe some stuff that's in development for other games?

[Livemmo]

ZtalkerRM wrote...

Livemmo wrote...
Piracy isnt theft and those people that downloaded the game can still get all dlc. Sometimes they even get it sooner than paying customers (RTO).

Please people if you dont know anything about the subject go do your research before you comment. Piracy isnt theft it's an excuse used to release bad games and blame bad sales on it. Those people who download the game illegally arent going to suddenly jump up and started purchasing it if piracy didnt exist. It's a theoritical arguement that has been discussed many MANY times over.

Basically, if piracy was theft 99% of you should be locked up for visiting youtube and listening to your favorite song when youre bored. Almost ALL of you are guilty of piracy in some case or another no matter how petty the infraction may be and thus should all be locked away in prison.. amiright?

I laughed so hard.
Grab a dictionary and search for the word 'piracy' it should be under the 'P' section. Ironic that you claim it isn't theft when sites like Piratebay get kicked in the butt legally, like here in Holland. They are doing nothing wrong right?
And yes, you are right. It's a start to prosecute people who create sites that share illegal stuff. Not talking prison, but fines would be a start.

Music is more difficult, but I-tunes proves it doesnt have to be. Prosecuting everyone who downloaded a certain MP-3 is impossible, but making it impossible to download, or offering better alternatives isn't.

The definition of stealing is 'grabbing something that isn't yours.' Sharing it is, in my book, a bit worse.

But I'll go on-topic now, like you said, this has been discusses many times over.

OT: Maybe someone at Bioware coul respond with what kind of copyright protection system they'd like personally? Or maybe some stuff that's in development for other games?

Let me get this straight.. because "proesecuting everyone who downloaded a certain MP-3 is immposible", it makes it less against the law?

You can laugh as hard as you want but until the day EVERYONE and ANYONE who ever downloaded an mp3 is thrown in prison and/or fined I will not treat this "law" seriously. By definition, piracy of downloadable media isnt theft. Maybe you should go read the dictionary?

Just because something is impossible to enforce doesnt mean it's any less against the law. If you're going to throw someone in jail for downloading a 9gb file then throw the same person that downloaded an mp3 EVER IN THEIR LIFE in the same prison. The law is the law.

It's laughable to see this even being discussed. Like it or not its NOT theft.