96 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

And saved the world. Maybe as the hero from the expansions without hijacking Warden´s LIs.

[Lord Gremlin]

David Gaider wrote...

CLime wrote...
I can't tell if you're being coy or sincere.  Sincere would be kind of awesome, actually.

Completely sincere.

There are other things you can do aside from saving the world-- as plenty of people griped back when Origins was announced. Not doing one of those three things doesn't mean Hawke is sitting around painting his toenails.

But admit it, he/she will paint them anyway, right? 

My best guess will be that Hawke will still be on a quest to save something, like his sister, his dignity or something else... I always get a feeling that if not for the save-the-world quest my characters in Origins could all be labeled as amoral, greedy sociopaths, but all that Grey Warden business just magically made them all good and honorable. Part of me is glad that you got rid of that, so my character can be a real, acknowledged criminal and monster, but part of me scared that you'll find a way to make him/her look good anyway...
To me ending in DAO felt in a way similar to Oblivion... You know, no matter what you do, what horrid crimes you commit you still will be considered Hero of Ferelden, Champion of Cirodill or whatever... And no one will ask something like "Haven't i seen you eating children alive in an Orphanage during all that crazy-blood mage story?"

It's just like in Terry Pratchett's novel "The Hogfather" - if you're a Hero, you'll get away with anything, since no one will ask unpleasant questions. I've always found it kind of depressing...

[Mary Kirby]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

My best guess will be that Hawke will still be on a quest to save something, like his sister, his dignity or something else... I always get a feeling that if not for the save-the-world quest my characters in Origins could all be labeled as amoral, greedy sociopaths, but all that Grey Warden business just magically made them all good and honorable. Part of me is glad that you got rid of that, so my character can be a real, acknowledged criminal and monster, but part of me scared that you'll find a way to make him/her look good anyway...
To me ending in DAO felt in a way similar to Oblivion... You know, no matter what you do, what horrid crimes you commit you still will be considered Hero of Ferelden, Champion of Cirodill or whatever... And no one will ask something like "Haven't i seen you eating children alive in an Orphanage during all that crazy-blood mage story?"

It's just like in Terry Pratchett's novel "The Hogfather" - if you're a Hero, you'll get away with anything, since no one will ask unpleasant questions. I've always found it kind of depressing...

Plot: Keeping player characters from sociopathic binges that destroy the world since forever.

[AntiChri5]

I love our writers!

[Juztinb42]

David Gaider wrote...

Juztinb42 wrote...
So you're all saying that BioWare are going to break their streak of 4 consecutive games with an exclusive organization in them? It's 5 if you count Cerberus.

I know, right?

No exclusive organization. No saving the world. No ancient evil.

Well, it is certainly good news to hear that.  Thanks for replying in here, honestly didn't expect it.

[Lord Gremlin]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Plot: Keeping player characters from sociopathic binges that destroy the world since forever.

Oh, come on, I don't want to destroy the world. What would you harass if there's nothing left? Even if you consider sociopathy. What would Alan Moore's Rorschach do if there was no more "filth" left in the world?

Probably drunk himself to death.

My point is that plot, and especially ending in an RPG, should actually reflect player's choices, and not just in small details but in most basic parts. How can a thief, murderer, assassin be a renown and loved hero? It's not like those deeds are secret... everybody just turns a blind eye. Since plot doesn't include incredibly redeeming save-the-world part I'd love to see vile, cruel and amoral Hawke receiving an adequate ending. 

[IronVanguard]

Maybe he'll become champion by teaching that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

[Lord Gremlin]

IronVanguard wrote...

Maybe he'll become champion by teaching that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

This somehow reminds me of Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail.. 
Doesn't fit in DA universe IMO. Should Hawke even try to teach peasants such ideas, nearest Bann Teabag will call for his execution. Well, unless you suggest a revolution all over Thedas, in which case Karl Marx approves +10.

[mordy_was_here]

IronVanguard wrote...

Maybe he'll become champion by teaching that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Okay, that had me laughing.

[Demx]

So the only thing that will be driving my character is his will to become rich and famous? There has to be some type of final boss character with minions hell bent on destroying everything in his path. Otherwise, how will I ..... oooooh, I see, so once I achieve those goals the game ends.

[Juztinb42]

Siradix wrote...

So the only thing that will be driving my character is his will to become rich and famous? There has to be some type of final boss character with minions hell bent on destroying everything in his path. Otherwise, how will I ..... oooooh, I see, so once I achieve those goals the game ends.

To be honest, I never really enjoyed the urgency of having to kill that big bad guy at the end.  I've always enjoyed the journey more than the destination.

[Mirander]

IronVanguard wrote...

Maybe he'll become champion by teaching that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

You mean you aren't going to proclaim yourself emperor just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at you?

[Lord Gremlin]

Siradix wrote...

So the only thing that will be driving my character is his will to become rich and famous?

Oh, this can be achieved in many ways.
1) Open a brothel.
2) Scavenge (Bodhan style).
3) Open a tavern. Be creative with it's name. "Dragon Puke" won't do.
4) Sell fake Andraste's ashes.
5) Pickpocketing. A catchy nickname, like Gay Fox, is required.
6) Engage in a  farcical aquatic ceremony (first ensure that you'll be paid).
7) Bullying merchants.
8) Open a brothel.
9) Declare yourself the Risen Andraste (females only).
10) Open a ****house.

[Grommash94]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

IronVanguard wrote...

Maybe he'll become champion by teaching that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

This somehow reminds me of Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail.. 
Doesn't fit in DA universe IMO. Should Hawke even try to teach peasants such ideas, nearest Bann Teabag will call for his execution. Well, unless you suggest a revolution all over Thedas, in which case Karl Marx approves +10.

Reminds me of that too hehe. The scene with Arthur and the peasants talking about democracy

[Demx]

Juztinb42 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

So the only thing that will be driving my character is his will to become rich and famous? There has to be some type of final boss character with minions hell bent on destroying everything in his path. Otherwise, how will I ..... oooooh, I see, so once I achieve those goals the game ends.

To be honest, I never really enjoyed the urgency of having to kill that big bad guy at the end.  I've always enjoyed the journey more than the destination.

Are you telling me you don't enjoy climatic endings?

[Lord Gremlin]

Juztinb42 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

So the only thing that will be driving my character is his will to become rich and famous? There has to be some type of final boss character with minions hell bent on destroying everything in his path. Otherwise, how will I ..... oooooh, I see, so once I achieve those goals the game ends.

To be honest, I never really enjoyed the urgency of having to kill that big bad guy at the end.  I've always enjoyed the journey more than the destination.

There's a great variety of bad guys to kill while becoming rich and famous, depending on your approach to obtaining fame and riches:
1) Chief tax collector.
2) City guard captain.
3) Rival gang leader.
4) Rival brothel owner.
5) Rival Risen Andraste (the bearded one).
6) Bann Teagan.

[Grommash94]

Hmm...Maybe Hawke will become the Qun equivalent of Andraste?





No?.....

[Demx]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Juztinb42 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

So the only thing that will be driving my character is his will to become rich and famous? There has to be some type of final boss character with minions hell bent on destroying everything in his path. Otherwise, how will I ..... oooooh, I see, so once I achieve those goals the game ends.

To be honest, I never really enjoyed the urgency of having to kill that big bad guy at the end.  I've always enjoyed the journey more than the destination.

There's a great variety of bad guys to kill while becoming rich and famous, depending on your approach to obtaining fame and riches:
1) Chief tax collector.
2) City guard captain.
3) Rival gang leader.
4) Rival brothel owner.
5) Rival Risen Andraste (the bearded one).
6) Bann Teagan.

You make owning a brothel so adventurous.

[Juztinb42]

Siradix wrote...

Juztinb42 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

So the only thing that will be driving my character is his will to become rich and famous? There has to be some type of final boss character with minions hell bent on destroying everything in his path. Otherwise, how will I ..... oooooh, I see, so once I achieve those goals the game ends.

To be honest, I never really enjoyed the urgency of having to kill that big bad guy at the end.  I've always enjoyed the journey more than the destination.

Are you telling me you don't enjoy climatic endings?

I'm not saying that, it's just that I get sick of being the hero that saves the day.  I want to start as a regular person and become something big by doing something important, rather than becoming something big (or in the case of BioWare games, starting out big) and then doing something important.  The fundamental thing that most BIoWare games lack is the hero's journey.

I know I'm really going off in a lot of directions here, but i'm just finding what I want to say to be very difficult.

[merik3000]

Reading Lord Gremlins posts make me remember being an evil manipulative Sith lord from Kotor ah happy memories Bioware please bring back the smart evil character again as in DA 1 the evil path was pretty dumb in alot of areas (like evil companions not wanting to save Redcliffe even though as an evil manipulative character it makes more sense to make the plebs think your a hero and gain their loyalty so you can use them as cannon fodder against the darkspawn ). Jade Empire had a good morality system also. In relation to this post I believe that the secret society that Hawke starts will be called "The Super Duper Secret  Society Of Manly Beards"

Modifié par merik3000, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:06 .

[dan107]

David Gaider wrote...
I know, right?

No exclusive organization. No saving the world. No ancient evil.

Wait what? Next thing I know you'll be saying that the plot structure doesn't revolve around going to exactly 4 places at best tangentially related to the story? And dialogues with NPCs won't consist of playing 20 questions neatly broken up by "Well I'd like to tell you why I shaved that cat, but I won't. But if you ask later I will."?

What is the world coming to? :innocent:

Modifié par dan107, 15 juillet 2010 - 08:29 .

[Chairon de Celeste]

David Gaider wrote...

CLime wrote...
I can't tell if you're being coy or sincere.  Sincere would be kind of awesome, actually.

Completely sincere.

There are other things you can do aside from saving the world-- as plenty of people griped back when Origins was announced. Not doing one of those three things doesn't mean Hawke is sitting around painting his toenails.

I can already see some funbags  creating ps'ed screenshots  of the final game,
showing female or male protagonists painting  their toenails - no crystal ball required there

Seriously - I'm glad to hear there'll be no new secret societies.
Growing lore has a limit where one either risks to break it or to sit on one's hands due to new
storytelling limits.

[Chuvvy]

Grey Wardens aren't a secret society. Friends of Red Jenny is a secret society, and something I'd like to learn more about.

[ZtalkerRM]

Slidell505 wrote...

Grey Wardens aren't a secret society. Friends of Red Jenny is a secret society, and something I'd like to learn more about.

But....that's not cool!
"I'm a spectre."
"I'm a Grey Warden."
"I'm a friend of red Jenny!"  *rainbow and emo music*

No, seriously, maybe they'll pull a Fable/Assassins Creed 2 and have you become a major of a city, king, president or whatever. Would be cool to meet the Grey Warden Commander face to face in the Denerim court, while representing Kirkwall.

[pitchblaq]

I wonder if Hawke would survive the joining.



Or more curious, how he'd react to the order if Bethany was recruited and did not.



I have faith in you, Mary; sneak something past David and make the Grey Wardens a cobblestone on Hawke's warpath of vengeance, casting the order from Kirkwall... as seems to be cyclically appropriate, come to think of it, given how Wardens are treated when there's no Blight...