213 réponses à ce sujet

[TheSpaceKraken]

Very nice.



Putting the link into my favourites.

[Kimarous]

David Gaider wrote...

Kimarous wrote...
I have to wonder... if Kirkwall was originally a Tevinter settlement, has it ALWAYS been known as Kirkwall? Somehow I get the impression it was renamed to something more local after the Imperium got booted out. Minrathous, Ostagar, Kirkwall... it has a slight "Aerith and Bob" flavour to it.

You are correct-- it had a different name when it was part of the Imperium, a name that was discarded after the slave rebellion (who hated the Imperium for probably understandable reasons). The current name refers to the massive black cliffs that border the waking sea, atop which the fortress was originally built. You'll no doubt see this when we start putting out more concept art/screenshots.

Yay! I was right!

Now my only question is whether the original name been lost to time or if it be mentioned somewhere within the game's lore.

[SchaerMann30]

Andraste, eh? Shades of the Virgin Mary Biblical tale there. Also, someone mentioned the Crucifixion above, stating that it was lack of proof and weakness which caused it. I'd like to briefly respond to that in relation to DA. In DA, we have the Chantry, which gives us the tale of the Maker casting Tevinter mages from the Golden City they corrupted, turning them into evil monsters. Direct tie to the story about God casting Lucifer and his followers from Heaven after they rebelled. No possible question. We also have the worship of the Old Gods being cast down by Andraste and the Chantry. We now see a version of the link to Moses and the casting down of the Golden Ram upon descending from the Burning Bush and his talk with God, whereupon he was bestowed the Commandments. From there, we see Andraste being killed and burned at the stake for her crimes. The Crucifixion, but like the story of the Crucifixion, we can see pieces of evidence in the Chantry lore, both common and forgotten, that Andraste was a rebel against the established religion and order, and was executed for a crime. If you're going to make assertions about a religious tale in any Christian Bible, you should study the whole thing before talking. The Crucifixion tale gives us evidence, verifiable in any Bible, that Jesus was a rebel and a rabble-rouser trying to overthrow the established order (Judaism and Roman religions both). The Jews got tired of his mad concepts, caught him, tried him for both heresy and treason, as well as unauthorized and unlicensed street-preaching, but couldn't execute him because of Roman laws. So they called the Romans in, and they crucified him like they did thousands of others like him daily (that period was crawling with self-ordained 'prophets'; none lasted long without having purchased a license few could afford and none wanted), and went about life as usual.

It was only decades later that that particular set of teachings became popular, and here we enter the realm of historical fact. One of the last Emperors of the Roman Empire before it imploded under it's own weight read some of these in a scholarly interest, and became so enamored of this particular set that he popularized it and those who had leanings toward politics and intrigue followed suit. Much of the common populace did NOT, and retained their pagan ways until the Church became firmly established. They were adept at conversions, as well; they settled on the cross shape so popular now, not because of the event in the man's death, but for conversion utility. Reverse a cross to hang upside-down and you find the old pagan hammer symbol of fertility and luck. Very canny, those early Christians. Hammer out a bunch of those with a loop at either end, hand them out to anyone, let them wear it how they wish to, and use the soft-touch approach to bringing them to your side.

You can find the evidence on the tale corollaries in any Bible in the land (those in Eastern Orthodox territory, I can't verify your set); the rest of it can be found in history records of the events in many places, including online. Look it up, read it; DA has loads of reality woven into the fabric of Thedas. The Grey Wardens, if you look, are a direct corollary of the Knights Templar, for example. The Chantry templars are more in line with the Knights of St. John. You'll find real-history pieces woven quite broadly in DA, if you look. You'll find a lot of things, not just history. It's something I love about the world of Thedas. There's something new you'll find in every corner with enough exploration and the right luck.

[Gaxhung]

KendallX23 wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
This part is a little strange although dramatic. Mafareth is Andraste's husband, and God fell in love with Andraste, who again, is Mafareth's wife. Does this not make the Maker sort of an adulterer or something? Sure they didn't have sex, but the Maker was having an emotional affair with Andraste! ... admitedly its kinda hawt.

But if I were in Mafareth's shoes, I would just cede to this "notorious" G.O.D. Oh no hes all upset and jealous and betrays her, sighs at Mafareth. I suppose he was like, "OH you like GOD so much?! Huh huh? Here DIE and go meet your precious god!!"

        right...and u compare the Maker with a puny mortal ?
      besides...this is all Chantry propaganda...but the temple in ahven makes it pretty clear that something like this actually happened...

Well they were both in love with the same woman, the chantry wouldn't make up a story of god's adultery, unless this fictional religion has no rule against adultery. Yea the temple in Haven and the trial where we were quizzed by Mafareth (Jealousy) proves the story. This Maker coveted Andraste's hotass, and she wanted him too, while she already has a husband and children! The who-ore! Imma go defile her ashes now hmph!! (then reload so I won't lose my booty call Leliana) =p

[Jimmy Fury]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...
Yeah, but why would a demon of pride want to overthrow the Tevinter Imperium?! Wouldn't it want to RULE the Imperium instead?

Sorry for responding to something two pages old but...
You're not thinking BIG enough! The Tevinter Imperium at its height was the most powerful thing in the world. If you take over and rule it you're just a copy. You're nothing new you're just a replacement for those who already ruled it. Ruling the imperium has already been done. At best you're a very good poser...

Overthrowing the most powerful thing in the world, now that's something new. Then you're not just the most powerful thing in the world, you're better. You're stronger and mightier.
But... That's still not big enough. What's better than being stronger and mightier than the most powerful humans on earth? Being stronger and mightier than the maker himself. In that case it's certainly not enough to rule the people, you must be loved by the people. Loved so much that they worship you. And not just worship you, but use you to replace the maker himself... and what's the best way to get the love of the people? Overthrow the Imperium for them.
Now that's something to be proud of.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 15 juillet 2010 - 07:54 .

[Giubba]

Sorry to interrupt but the bloody game informer web page is under maintenance, there is an alternate link?

[Hugo111]

кнукнун

[Hugo111]

Драгон ейдж рулит!!!!
МАсс ефект отстой!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[Gaxhung]

Hugo111 wrote...
Dragon eydzh taxis!!
Mass Efektim sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Google translate :/

[Eledion7]

Am I the only one who thinks that, Flemeth is kinda like Malificent, i mean they both turn into mighty dragons, and die at the heros hand, and both continue to live on, just saying , sure there also different but wth

[El Codge]

Giubba1985 wrote...

Sorry to interrupt but the bloody game informer web page is under maintenance, there is an alternate link?

Still is.

Has it been reproduced on this site anywhere at all?

[pitchblaq]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Either it's that, or I'd like to hear a really good theory on why a plain mortal mage, no matter how powerful, would have a body that turns into all-curing ashes when burned.
Because, Maker, spirits, demons or mages aside, the ashes work.

There are a whole slew of enchanted inanimate objects throughout Dragon Age. One explanation is that Andraste was an extrodinarily powerful mage, with magics incomparable to any we've seen, but she herself never really needed to be, so long as there were countless other mages who could have easily instilled her remains with magic instead.

[Eleinehmm]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Either it's that, or I'd like to hear a really good theory on why a plain mortal mage, no matter how powerful, would have a body that turns into all-curing ashes when burned.
Because, Maker, spirits, demons or mages aside, the ashes work.

Well, we do not know for a fact that the Ashes are the ashes of Andraste.

[Grommash94]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Either it's that, or I'd like to hear a really good theory on why a plain mortal mage, no matter how powerful, would have a body that turns into all-curing ashes when burned.
Because, Maker, spirits, demons or mages aside, the ashes work.

Well, we do not know for a fact that the Ashes are the ashes of Andraste.

The Guardian seems to think so.

[Lintanis]

Riona45 wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

        right...and u compare the Maker with a puny mortal ?
      besides...this is all Chantry propaganda...but the temple in ahven makes it pretty clear that something like this actually happened...

I'm not sure about that.  If you're talking about the spririts in the temple, I never took it that they're there to give you an accurate accounting of historical events, or that they are literally the spirits of real people.  I met "Jowan" at the end, even though there was no indication in the game that Jowan was deceased at that point.

Dont think the person you meet in the temple has to be dead, just who the guardian picks up in your mind 

[Grommash94]

Lintanis wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

        right...and u compare the Maker with a puny mortal ?
      besides...this is all Chantry propaganda...but the temple in ahven makes it pretty clear that something like this actually happened...

I'm not sure about that.  If you're talking about the spririts in the temple, I never took it that they're there to give you an accurate accounting of historical events, or that they are literally the spirits of real people.  I met "Jowan" at the end, even though there was no indication in the game that Jowan was deceased at that point.

Dont think the person you meet in the temple has to be dead, just who the guardian picks up in your mind 

Sort of begs the question; how exactly did the Guardian know each character's inner problems? We have no evidence that spirits can see into your subconcious, or mages either.

We all know that spirits are not imaginitive and copy whatever they see in the real world....so it is possible that the spririts in the gauntlet based themselves off real people and their exploits. They never really CONFIRM that the Maker is real though, just that Andraste did this and this and was killed.

[Helena Tylena]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Either it's that, or I'd like to hear a really good theory on why a plain mortal mage, no matter how powerful, would have a body that turns into all-curing ashes when burned.
Because, Maker, spirits, demons or mages aside, the ashes work.

Well, we do not know for a fact that the Ashes are the ashes of Andraste.

We do know that they work. This means they could be one of three things:
-The Ashes of Andraste the powerful mage/abomination. If so, does an excessive amount of magic turn your body into a panacea?
-The Ashes of Andraste, Bride of the Maker. Only true if the Makes exists.
-A dust that serves as a panacea, but that's either incredibly rare, or used up to the point only the ones stored in the urn are left in Ferelden/Thedas. At least that we know of. If the dust wasn't so very rare, Isolde would've just gotten some where she knew for sure it could be found, rather than chasing a legend.

I'm an agnost-bordering-on-atheist in real life, so I tend to look at things through my agnost-bordering-on-atheist glasses. I'm a bit like Morigan in that I believe in things I can see, touch, hear, smell or taste. Within the world of Dragon Age we know magic is real, demons are real, spirits are real, because we see them. We encounter them. Quite often we kill them. We don't hear anything from the Maker other than legends and tales that are centuries old. The closest we get to proof of Andraste's legend are the Ashes (whether or not they are HER ashes, or ashes at all we leave in the middle) and the Guardian (assuming the riddle spirits are figments of his will). I'm simply curious to know what the Ashes actually are, and who, or what, the Guardian is.

[Wittand25]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Either it's that, or I'd like to hear a really good theory on why a plain mortal mage, no matter how powerful, would have a body that turns into all-curing ashes when burned.
Because, Maker, spirits, demons or mages aside, the ashes work.

Well, we do not know for a fact that the Ashes are the ashes of Andraste.

We do know that they work. This means they could be one of three things:
-The Ashes of Andraste the powerful mage/abomination. If so, does an excessive amount of magic turn your body into a panacea?
-The Ashes of Andraste, Bride of the Maker. Only true if the Makes exists.
-A dust that serves as a panacea, but that's either incredibly rare, or used up to the point only the ones stored in the urn are left in Ferelden/Thedas. At least that we know of. If the dust wasn't so very rare, Isolde would've just gotten some where she knew for sure it could be found, rather than chasing a legend.

I'm an agnost-bordering-on-atheist in real life, so I tend to look at things through my agnost-bordering-on-atheist glasses. I'm a bit like Morigan in that I believe in things I can see, touch, hear, smell or taste. Within the world of Dragon Age we know magic is real, demons are real, spirits are real, because we see them. We encounter them. Quite often we kill them. We don't hear anything from the Maker other than legends and tales that are centuries old. The closest we get to proof of Andraste's legend are the Ashes (whether or not they are HER ashes, or ashes at all we leave in the middle) and the Guardian (assuming the riddle spirits are figments of his will). I'm simply curious to know what the Ashes actually are, and who, or what, the Guardian is.

There is a forth possibility. The ashes could simply be a focus of believe and channel the faith of the followers of Anderaste into healing power. For that it is not important if they are real or just the content of an ashtray aslong as enough people believe that the ashes have power they will have it, if people would stopp believing in them they would loose power.

[Helena Tylena]

Wittand25 wrote...

There is a forth possibility. The ashes could simply be a focus of believe and channel the faith of the followers of Anderaste into healing power. For that it is not important if they are real or just the content of an ashtray aslong as enough people believe that the ashes have power they will have it, if people would stopp believing in them they would loose power.

Yyyyyyeeeeeaaaaaa-no. We already know believing something doesn't make it real. Everyone believed after the fourth Blight the Darkspawn were defeated forever. And then came the fifth Blight.
And while I like the idea of the Ashes being a placebo, for that to work the person taking it has to believe what he is taking is medicine the moment he takes it. Eamon was very much not aware of his surroundings at the time.

A nice theory, but I don't see it plausible.

[Grommash94]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Either it's that, or I'd like to hear a really good theory on why a plain mortal mage, no matter how powerful, would have a body that turns into all-curing ashes when burned.
Because, Maker, spirits, demons or mages aside, the ashes work.

Well, we do not know for a fact that the Ashes are the ashes of Andraste.

 I'm a bit like Morigan in that I believe in things I can see, touch, hear, smell or taste.

Not to nitpick, but Morrigan and Flemeth both believe in the Old Gods. Morrigan never saw one, or heard one, but she believed in them because Flemeth probably told her that they do indeed exist. They may not worship them (or, maybe they do?), but they do believe that the Old Gods exist. Even though the Old Gods may just be sentient dragons.


Edit: I think the Old Gods are proof that SOMETHING (a powerful spirit or an omnipotent Maker, you decide) resided in the Golden City in the fade, and, seeing as it imprisoned them underground, they sought revenge by taunting their followers (the Tevinter magisters) into trying to take that SOMETHING on. They failed, and as darkspawn sought revenge against the Old Gods.

Modifié par Grommash94, 15 juillet 2010 - 02:20 .

[Helena Tylena]

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Either it's that, or I'd like to hear a really good theory on why a plain mortal mage, no matter how powerful, would have a body that turns into all-curing ashes when burned.
Because, Maker, spirits, demons or mages aside, the ashes work.

Well, we do not know for a fact that the Ashes are the ashes of Andraste.

 I'm a bit like Morigan in that I believe in things I can see, touch, hear, smell or taste.

Not to nitpick, but Morrigan and Flemeth both believe in the Old Gods. Morrigan never saw one, or heard one, but she believed in them because Flemeth probably told her that they do indeed exist. They may not worship them (or, maybe they do?), but they do believe that the Old Gods exist. Even though the Old Gods may just be sentient dragons.

They exist, however, and reveal their presence in the form of archdemons. When Morrigan was born they have done so four times in the past, and during Origins it happens a fifth time.
Good point, though, and one I did indeed overlook. Begs the question just what is a god? Where does one draw the line between 'really powerful mortal creature who doesn't age and die' and 'immortal deity'? Divinity is, like anything, a matter of perception, and the Old Gods might as well be Gods.
Besides, we don't know how old the demon in Flemeth is, or what it knows. Or what it did before it possessed Flemeth. We have no reason to assume Flemeth never encountered an Old God before.

Modifié par Helena Tylena, 15 juillet 2010 - 02:20 .

[Wittand25]

Helena Tylena wrote...
Yyyyyyeeeeeaaaaaa-no. We already know believing something doesn't make it real. Everyone believed after the fourth Blight the Darkspawn were defeated forever. And then came the fifth Blight.
And while I like the idea of the Ashes being a placebo, for that to work the person taking it has to believe what he is taking is medicine the moment he takes it. Eamon was very much not aware of his surroundings at the time.

A nice theory, but I don't see it plausible.

The darkspawn are a different matter and not everyone believed them gone, the Wardens knew that they will return, and raids of darkspawns are not uncommon even if there is no blight. Also thinking they are gone is not the same as believing that they are truly gone a rational thought is quite something different from an irrational belief or fear (which is a sort of belief and the people of Thedas fear the darkspawn) 
For a regular placebo the person taking it has to believe in it yes, but the ashes would not be a regular placebo. They would be a focus of faith and have genuine healing power as long as they are that focus. If they loose their status as focus because people stopp believing in them they loose their power (The diskworld by Terry Pratchett operates on a similar principle so that a god(focus of believe) who(which) looses his/her/its followers also looses all power; or like in Planscape:Torment get enough people into believing that Adhan exists and you will meet him, if not enough people believe in him he does not exist)

Modifié par Wittand25, 15 juillet 2010 - 02:23 .

[Aratham Darksight]

Helena Tylena wrote...

We do know that they work. This means they could be one of three things:
-The Ashes of Andraste the powerful mage/abomination. If so, does an excessive amount of magic turn your body into a panacea?
-The Ashes of Andraste, Bride of the Maker. Only true if the Makes exists.
-A dust that serves as a panacea, but that's either incredibly rare, or used up to the point only the ones stored in the urn are left in Ferelden/Thedas. At least that we know of. If the dust wasn't so very rare, Isolde would've just gotten some where she knew for sure it could be found, rather than chasing a legend.

They could be many other things. They could be the ashes of someone completely different, mistaken for the ashes of Andraste because of their miraculous properties. Someone who died long before her, like an elf from the days of Arlathan. The possibilities are limitless. What if it was not the burned person who was special, but the fire itself? What if the ashes gained these powers simply because they were placed in a highly magic-saturated area where everyone deeply, desperately believed that they had them? What if the blood cultists had already tampered with the ashes once, many generations ago when they weren't so crazy and evil? Their techniques are capable of undoing the ashes' power - how do we know that the power of blood isn't capable of creating something like this? Just pour the lives of some volunteers into the ashes as a way of showing reverence to Andraste and then forget about it in a few hundred years.
It is a mystery. :innocent:

Modifié par Aratham Darksight, 15 juillet 2010 - 02:25 .

[Helena Tylena]

Wittand25 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...
Yyyyyyeeeeeaaaaaa-no. We already know believing something doesn't make it real. Everyone believed after the fourth Blight the Darkspawn were defeated forever. And then came the fifth Blight.
And while I like the idea of the Ashes being a placebo, for that to work the person taking it has to believe what he is taking is medicine the moment he takes it. Eamon was very much not aware of his surroundings at the time.

A nice theory, but I don't see it plausible.

The darkspawn are a different matter and not everyone believed them gone, the Wardens knew that they will return, and raids of darkspawns are not uncommon even if there is no blight. Also thinking they are gone is not the same as believing that they are truly gone a rational thought is quite something different from an irrational belief or fear (which is a sort of belief and the people of Thedas fear the darkspawn) 
For a regular placebo the person taking it has to believe in it yes, but the ashes would not be a regular placebo. They would be a focus of faith and have genuine healing power as long as they are that focus. If they loose their status as focus because people stopp believing in them they loose their power (The diskworld by Terry Pratchett operates on a similar principle so that a god(focus of believe) who(which) looses his/her/its followers also looses all power)

Good point, though I still think it's unlikely. Diskworld uses it as the basis for the existence of everything (if noone believe someone exists, that person included, he ceases to exist, god or mortal alike). It would be little more than a gimmicky way of explaining the Ashes, as it's used nowhere else in Dragon Age lore.
Also, why the Ashes? Why that specific object in that specific place? And how did people know to build a temple exactly there?