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[Helena Tylena]

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

A pride demon wouldn't have been so benevolent imo though. Nor would it have let itself be burnt at a stake ;P

I don't believe demons are evil. Only selfish. A demon could pretend it is benevolent for a plethora of reasons, the most likely of which would be 'to amuse itself'.

Perhaps not all demons are evil. The ones that screwed around in the orphanage in the Alienage seemed so, though.

We do know that Andraste was burnt at a stake. We know the archon ended her life mercifully. The Pride demon would not have let those things happen.

Ok, maybe selfish and completely without scruples. >.<
And maybe the demon possessed someone else and used Andraste as a pawn?

Perhaps. If there was another mage with Andraste don't see how it wouldn't be possible....but..it would have to have been someone who would have been able to trick Andraste into thinking he was the Maker...

I STILL think the Maker is a powerful 'good', for lack of a better word, spirit. Like Justice x 100

Blood Magic does strange things to the head. And noone's better at blood magic than demons.

[Grommash94]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

A pride demon wouldn't have been so benevolent imo though. Nor would it have let itself be burnt at a stake ;P

I don't believe demons are evil. Only selfish. A demon could pretend it is benevolent for a plethora of reasons, the most likely of which would be 'to amuse itself'.

Perhaps not all demons are evil. The ones that screwed around in the orphanage in the Alienage seemed so, though.

We do know that Andraste was burnt at a stake. We know the archon ended her life mercifully. The Pride demon would not have let those things happen.

Ok, maybe selfish and completely without scruples. >.<
And maybe the demon possessed someone else and used Andraste as a pawn?

Perhaps. If there was another mage with Andraste don't see how it wouldn't be possible....but..it would have to have been someone who would have been able to trick Andraste into thinking he was the Maker...

I STILL think the Maker is a powerful 'good', for lack of a better word, spirit. Like Justice x 100

Blood Magic does strange things to the head. And noone's better at blood magic than demons.

But Andraste was a powerful mage. If she could take on Tevinter, she would have resisted, to some extent, a demon...

Why would a demon WANT to make Andraste a benevolent leader of Men and Elves who believe in a distant, but all around good 'Maker'?

[Helena Tylena]

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

A pride demon wouldn't have been so benevolent imo though. Nor would it have let itself be burnt at a stake ;P

I don't believe demons are evil. Only selfish. A demon could pretend it is benevolent for a plethora of reasons, the most likely of which would be 'to amuse itself'.

Perhaps not all demons are evil. The ones that screwed around in the orphanage in the Alienage seemed so, though.

We do know that Andraste was burnt at a stake. We know the archon ended her life mercifully. The Pride demon would not have let those things happen.

Ok, maybe selfish and completely without scruples. >.<
And maybe the demon possessed someone else and used Andraste as a pawn?

Perhaps. If there was another mage with Andraste don't see how it wouldn't be possible....but..it would have to have been someone who would have been able to trick Andraste into thinking he was the Maker...

I STILL think the Maker is a powerful 'good', for lack of a better word, spirit. Like Justice x 100

Blood Magic does strange things to the head. And noone's better at blood magic than demons.

But Andraste was a powerful mage. If she could take on Tevinter, she would have resisted, to some extent, a demon...

Why would a demon WANT to make Andraste a benevolent leader of Men and Elves who believe in a distant, but all around good 'Maker'?

The reason it's assumed she was a mage is because that would allow her to control her followers through blood magic, making it seem as conversions. If someone else was doing the blood magicing, (including using it on her) then she might as well be a non-mage.

As for why a demon would want to do that, there's a lot to be said about the power of perception. If the people believe Andraste to be good, she could do whatever she wants and people wouldn't complain. If I were a demon in charge of someone like that, I'd know a few things to do with them.

[Grommash94]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

A pride demon wouldn't have been so benevolent imo though. Nor would it have let itself be burnt at a stake ;P

I don't believe demons are evil. Only selfish. A demon could pretend it is benevolent for a plethora of reasons, the most likely of which would be 'to amuse itself'.

Perhaps not all demons are evil. The ones that screwed around in the orphanage in the Alienage seemed so, though.

We do know that Andraste was burnt at a stake. We know the archon ended her life mercifully. The Pride demon would not have let those things happen.

Ok, maybe selfish and completely without scruples. >.<
And maybe the demon possessed someone else and used Andraste as a pawn?

Perhaps. If there was another mage with Andraste don't see how it wouldn't be possible....but..it would have to have been someone who would have been able to trick Andraste into thinking he was the Maker...

I STILL think the Maker is a powerful 'good', for lack of a better word, spirit. Like Justice x 100

Blood Magic does strange things to the head. And noone's better at blood magic than demons.

But Andraste was a powerful mage. If she could take on Tevinter, she would have resisted, to some extent, a demon...

Why would a demon WANT to make Andraste a benevolent leader of Men and Elves who believe in a distant, but all around good 'Maker'?

The reason it's assumed she was a mage is because that would allow her to control her followers through blood magic, making it seem as conversions. If someone else was doing the blood magicing, (including using it on her) then she might as well be a non-mage.

As for why a demon would want to do that, there's a lot to be said about the power of perception. If the people believe Andraste to be good, she could do whatever she wants and people wouldn't complain. If I were a demon in charge of someone like that, I'd know a few things to do with them.

Personally, the whole her 'having the Maker's powers and smiting her enemies' screamed mage to me. She took on Tevinter, backed by barbarian armies and elves. She had to have had SOME sort of edge, something that pushed the Tevinter tide back. The commander of her armies states that the Tevinter crops failed, that floods occured, etc. Very, very powerful magic was there, I am sure.

The demon idea doesn't really seem too credible to me. If I was the demon with THAT sort of power, I would have had Andraste ask her followers to sacrifice themselves to fuel his blood magic in order to tear the Veil and unleash a horde of other demons, tbh. Andraste did nothing so malicious, whatsoever.


In fact, I am starting to think that perhaps Andraste was an abomination, but the Wynne kind. Her 'singing' (perhaps some magic?) attracted a powerful, benevolent spirit, the one who inhabited the Golden City, and he fused with her, augmenting her powers to defeat the Tevinter Imperium, which he looked upon with scorn, obviously, as they were nothing more than tyrants.

[Helena Tylena]

Most of that could be Chantry rhetoric. As for the crops and the floods, the demon could've done that.

Also, where does it say mages are immune to blood magic?

[Grommash94]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Most of that could be Chantry rhetoric. As for the crops and the floods, the demon could've done that.
Also, where does it say mages are immune to blood magic?

It was the spirit in the Guantlet. Seeing as how spirits are completely unoriginal, he probably took the commander's personality, or is the actual GHOST of the commander.


It doesn't, but, blood magic would have some sort of lasting imprint on you. I don't think you can really 'function' properly while under a blood mage's control. You'd probably be some sort of zombie.


Also....a powerful demon being attracted to a normal human, does not fit to me. Someone like a pride demon would want someone equally powerful.

Edit: 
I suppose both of our theories could make sense. Shall we call it quits? 

Modifié par Grommash94, 15 juillet 2010 - 11:57 .

[ashez2ashes]

I really really hope your boons transfer. It would warm my heart to see the Kirkwall Templars freaking out when they hear that Ferelden gave all of their mages autonomy.


Anyways, personally I don't believe the Chantry teaching of how the Blight started is the truth (or at least the whole truth).  The dwarf accounts of the blight differ for one and another you learn in that books that the Grey Wardens know where all of the old gods are.  Exactly where they are. Even though the Maker was supposed to have cast them down personally.  If that doesn't scream suspicious, I don't know what does.

Modifié par ashez2ashes, 15 juillet 2010 - 11:57 .

[Riona45]

ashez2ashes wrote...

I really really hope your boons transfer. It would warm my heart to see the Kirkwall Templars freaking out when they hear that Ferelden gave all of their mages autonomy.

I second that!

[Heavenblade]

We seem to be assuming that the kirkwall templars are upright zealots. For all we know, they could be commanded by a Harrith or whatnot, who cares more about keeping the peace and getting the next lyrium fix than any kind of actual enforcement of chantry doctrines. I imagine if the Templar's became powerful and independent enough, they may very well have their own supar-sekrat apostates that keep them "supplied." And such things being hinted at would be cause for the chantry/templars whatever to send an "internal affairs" agent, such as Cassandra, right?



Maybe our mage hawke can have an army of dirty templars at his command. Wouldn't that be sweet?

[Riona45]

Heavenblade wrote...

We seem to be assuming that the kirkwall templars are upright zealots.

I would think an upright zealot would be pretty rare.

The reason people are assuming the Kirkwall templars to be zealots is because the timeline mentions that they foster an enviroment of fear in the local Circle.  That, and it's been stated in the lore that templars are selected at least partly based on zealousness.

I would agree that we don't know all sides of the story yet, but I wouldn't say the assumption in question is baseless.

I imagine if the Templar's became powerful and independent enough, they may very well have their own supar-sekrat apostates that keep them "supplied."

How nice that would be for them, to exploit mages while keeping them in their place as a feared Other.

Modifié par Riona45, 16 juillet 2010 - 12:44 .

[Gaxhung]

Grommash94 wrote...

I have actually been thinking more about the theory I posted earlier. Thedosians worshipped the Old Gods, who, at one time, had walked the face of Thedas and had taught creatures how to use magic. However, they were also malicious, teaching the Tevinters about blood magic, and that they and they alone were gods. The Maker (whether he is an omnipotent creater or an extremely powerful, benovolent spirit is irrelevant) did not approve of this, and, well, imprisoned them underground. Obviously, they wanted to be free again, and so convinced the magisters that they had the power to defeat the Maker, even though the Old Gods knew that the magisters would not be succesful. Of course, the Tevinters failed, and became darkspawn, drawn to the call of the Old Gods, and went about freeing them.

Awesome, very insightful and interesting!

Grommash94 wrote...
I really think that something did once inhabit the Golden City, and that something is what the Chantry worships; there is a lot of evidence. Whether it created everything and is omniscient/omnipotent is an entirely different matter.

The maker character if it can be called that, certainly helps us overlook some unexplained stuff conveniently. I agree its hard to believe the maker of all things resides in the fade, but part of the fun I suppose is not knowing whats there.

Modifié par Gaxhung, 16 juillet 2010 - 12:49 .

[Helena Tylena]

Grommash94 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Most of that could be Chantry rhetoric. As for the crops and the floods, the demon could've done that.
Also, where does it say mages are immune to blood magic?

It was the spirit in the Guantlet. Seeing as how spirits are completely unoriginal, he probably took the commander's personality, or is the actual GHOST of the commander.


It doesn't, but, blood magic would have some sort of lasting imprint on you. I don't think you can really 'function' properly while under a blood mage's control. You'd probably be some sort of zombie.


Also....a powerful demon being attracted to a normal human, does not fit to me. Someone like a pride demon would want someone equally powerful.

Edit: 
I suppose both of our theories could make sense. Shall we call it quits? 

A truce, you say? Very well.

[Heavenblade]

Riona45 wrote...

How nice that would be for them, to exploit mages while keeping them in their place as a feared Other.

Well if they were dirty, they would have to remain publically "upstanding" would they not?

Did you not do any of the mages collective quests? There were already plenty of apostates who enjoyed freedom in exchange for policing themselves and keeping a pliable and open-minded knight-commander supplied.

They treat the dumb circle slobs/slaves like scum to look "loyal" while freeing the ones that are loyal.

Being dirty and not getting caught is tricky business.

Modifié par Heavenblade, 16 juillet 2010 - 02:01 .

[Riona45]

Heavenblade wrote...



Did you not do any of the mages collective quests?

Um, yes, I did those quests.

They treat the dumb circle slobs/slaves like scum to look "loyal" while freeing the ones that are loyal.

I get why some would see that as practical, I'm just saying that it's not admirable.

Modifié par Riona45, 16 juillet 2010 - 02:28 .

[Trooper Guy1]

 My Templar character is going to have a field-day in Kirkwall it seems, same with my mage.

[javierabegazo]

Just put the text on one page

[heretica]

My god, this stuff is so awesome, I was getting goosebumps!!!



Can't wait to play this! I really like what they are doing with Dragon Age 2.



GO TEAM

[Lord_Saulot]

Game Informer is supposed to post something new again today, right?

[Lord_Saulot]

I guess that depends on your time zone. For me (I live near New York for reference), they usually were late in the day, but not always, and always on the specified day.

[Loc'n'lol]

The timeline was posted on time, but they sure are late today. It's already the 17th in Europe and it must be getting late in America too.

[WingsandRings]

Grrr where is the new 7/16 post? The first update happened at 6 (Central time) exactly, the second one earlier in the day. Why do they torture us?

[Lord_Saulot]

Its here: http://gameinformer....wallpapers.aspx



I think they take some time to add them to the hub.

[Bryy_Miller]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Game Informer is supposed to post something new again today, right?

Oh, lulz.

[Eledion7]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Its here: http://gameinformer....wallpapers.aspx

I think they take some time to add them to the hub.

Thank You!!!!!