243 réponses à ce sujet

[Heavenblade]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Incest causes mutations in genes.

Sex doesn't cause your genes to magically change.

As for offspring..

Not quite how you imagine it, I think. You only have noticeably higher odds of defects and what not if you sleep with your immediate ancestor (a woman with her father, a son with his mother). Cousins barely register in difference with people who aren't related at all, and with brothers and sisters, the chance is only marginally higher.

Modifié par Heavenblade, 14 juillet 2010 - 09:29 .

[Khayness]

PARAGON87 wrote...

I really think the devs are looking at this thread and just facepalming themselves.

More like:

WHAT HAVE WE DONE?!

[Bryy_Miller]

zahra wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

zahra wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...

It's quite telling that most people aren't offended by impregnating an evil woman with a god-child that could very well doom all of humanity... but THIS is somehow "icky."

People are far more forgiving of mass evil and pure malevolence then they are even the slightest deviation from social norms in regards to interpersonal relationships.

Mass murder of innocents, birthing demon gods for the sake of convenience, abominations spewing things out in the darkness of the earth = Acceptable.

Partaking in a relationship with more closeness then some are comfortable with = BAD BAD BAD.

I agree. How we view the world/relationships = social construct. 

When you see someones head chopped off on television/Sudanese genocide/countries being bombed = Its ok.

Anything remotely sexually deviant = OMG CALL THE CAVALRY

Incest causes mutations in genes.

And mutations are more horrifying than having someones head blown off? The possibility of buckteeth and dyslexia is more scary than the casual acceptance of mass murder?

I don't like the idea of incest in DA:O. But a valid point is a valid point, and that is why I was agreeing with the poster above me.

You completely missed my point, which was that society constructs things for a reason. Raging against society without understanding what is and what is not BS with in is just stupid.

[Malsumis]

DanteCousland wrote...

No the concept does, it sickens you. People just think that wanting Incest in a game to make it fit the time period and to make it more deep automatically makes you some weird pervert...
I can't change your view if you think that but it is a shame you can't have a mature discussion without someone going
"EEEeew Incest gross".

But why have it as the PC? Having incest in the game doesn't bother me(like a book/movie King/Queen), but making it an option for the player to take part in does. There is no reason for it. You're not King of Kirkwall, your champion of it.

[Thomas9321]

Hawke has a sister? When did this come out?!

[elearon1]

>>Not true at all. I'm working on my master's in history, and while I don't specialize in Medieval history, I've studied plenty of it. The social norms we have now did not exist in the Medieval world. Incest was VERY common among nobility, eve into the 19th century. <<



Glad people other than me are bringing this stuff up. History is one of my two majors and all the "this almost never happened" posts were giving me a headache - but I'm too close to the topic (being the OP) and too lazy to get into what I figure would be a losing argument. (facts fall before mass opinion no matter how contrary to the truth it is)



Back when studying early American history I was a bit shocked to discover how common it was - but when you have a whole mess of siblings sharing the same bed and some of them going through puberty at the same time, this sort of thing is fairly unavoidable.



And let me be clear about some of the criticism here: I'm not saying "let's include incest because it is dark" I'm saying, "in a dark fantasy setting this is something I would like to see get attention." Because people are correct; there are many dark things you can do in the game, but it is easy to say "ho hum, killed another bunch of people, sacrificed some innocents, committed mass xenocide, what's next?" And much more difficult to yawn at something as socially powerful as incest.

[TheJediSaint]

TeenZombie wrote...

Could people just focus on hoping she lives past the tutorial stage, rather than planning your grimdark RP reasons for dating her? She's most likely a redshirt, but I'd be sooooooo happy if she was a valued party member who makes it through the whole game intact.

It would be cool for her to fill in a role similar to Imoen from BG, the main differnece of course that you know your related from the start.  Good parties generally have family dynaimics, having actual family in your party makes it even more so.  The closest thing you got to having a family member in the party during Origins was Dog if you were human noble.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Right...very creepy.

[Bryy_Miller]

Heavenblade wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Incest causes mutations in genes.

Sex doesn't cause your genes to magically change.

As for offspring..

Not quite how you imagine it, I think. You only have noticeably higher odds of defects and what not if you sleep with your immediate ancestor (a woman with her father, a son with his mother). Cousins barely register in difference with people who aren't related at all, and with brothers and sisters, the chance is only marginally higher.

You just contradicted yourself.

[elearon1]

[quote]Bryy_Miller wrote...

Incest causes mutations in genes.
[/quote]
And mutations are more horrifying than having someones head blown off? The possibility of buckteeth and dyslexia is more scary than the casual acceptance of mass murder?

I don't like the idea of incest in DA:O. But a valid point is a valid point, and that is why I was agreeing with the poster above me.
[/quote]

You completely missed my point, which was that society constructs things for a reason. Raging against society without understanding what is and what is not BS with in is just stupid.
[/quote]<<

(not sure why the above didn't quote properly)

This is a valid comment when discussing the topic of incest.  In truth it is rather unlikely that the first generation of an incestuous relationship is going to be deformed - though it gets exponentially more likely with each new generation.  I am not suggesting you have a child from an incestuous relationship in the game - though I wouldn't be against it either - merely the the possibility be there.

As to "why the pc instead of an npc?"  Mostly because it being the pc would make the subject far more powerful than if it were merely some flavor in an adventure.  Case in point, it is an fairly easy choice to kill the Demon possessed boy (blanking his name, sorry) in Origins because ultimately it doesn't really effect your character one way or the other ... but imagine how much more difficult and powerful a decision it would have been had it been your character's child.  Difficult moral decisions lack punch when they are made from the outside looking in.

Modifié par elearon1, 14 juillet 2010 - 09:37 .

[Loerwyn]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...
Sex doesn't cause your genes to magically change.

As for offspring..

Not quite how you imagine it, I think. You only have noticeably higher odds of defects and what not if you sleep with your immediate ancestor (a woman with her father, a son with his mother). Cousins barely register in difference with people who aren't related at all, and with brothers and sisters, the chance is only marginally higher.

You just contradicted yourself.

There's no contradiction in there.

[RogueWriter3201]

With respect to the OP (given the fact that I do not know enough about them to be crude) I must say that it's clear this entire Thread was generated for the sole purpose of promting outrage, disgust, and or pointless lines of conversation. Anyone with even a shred of common sense should know that BioWare would never even *Consider* such a course of action in any of thier games, especially Heroic titles, and all this thread is doing is adding a further level of tarnish to the Fourm as a whole.

Though we are often want to lash out at one another for various views on Dragon Age and where the direction should go, at least *most* of the Threads have some basis in decency; well, to an extent. This Thread is just pointless, repungnant, and fuels ignorance on a massive scale. If it is the wish of the OP and others to disucss incest, than by all mean take it to private messaging. It's my sincere hope that this Thread is locked and removed from the Forum, and that the OP shows a Higher Degree of common Human decency in the Future. Please.

[Heavenblade]

[quote]Bryy_Miller wrote...
Incest causes mutations in genes.
[/quote]

Sex doesn't cause your genes to magically change.

As for offspring..

Not quite how you imagine it, I think. You only have noticeably higher odds of defects and what not if you sleep with your immediate ancestor (a woman with her father, a son with his mother). Cousins barely register in difference with people who aren't related at all, and with brothers and sisters, the chance is only marginally higher.

[/quote]

You just contradicted yourself.
[/quote]

Nope. You said incest causes mutations. I said that sleeping with your sister won't do so, and the odds of such mutations occuring in children is overblown to a wild degree by people who watch way too much television and film.

Mutant freaks from the deep south might make entertaining television, but such things are exceedingly rare and require COUNTLESS GENERATIONS of inbreeding.

Modifié par Heavenblade, 14 juillet 2010 - 09:39 .

[WingsandRings]

filaminstrel wrote...

Merely reproductively speaking incest is no worse than homosexuality if you simply don't have kids.

Um...what?
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[mordy_was_here]

Let's just leave it to the modders, shall we? Or maybe the fanfics.

[17thknight]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...



Right...very creepy.

I laughed. A lot.

[Addai]

17thknight wrote...

Lord_Saulot wrote...

I liked the A Song of Ice and Fire books, but that doesn't make this thread's request anywhere near appropriate for the game.

And what, pray tell, do you think the norms of Medieval society were, that were so different from our society in real life?  I will tell you - the norms of medieval society were determined by the Christian Church, and public violations had wide-ranging consequences.  For Catholics, I'm not sure about second cousins, but first cousins could only be allowed with a dispensation - anything closer was a violation of natural law.  For Orthodox, third cousin was the closest officially allowed.  In either case, a powerful figure violating these norms would be seen as offending God, and any major disaster in the realm would be blamed on the violation. 

Not true at all. I'm working on my master's in history, and while I don't specialize in Medieval history, I've studied plenty of it. The social norms we have now did not exist in the Medieval world. Incest was VERY common among nobility, eve into the 19th century.

I imagine the two posters quoted here are talking about different things.  One, whether or not it occurred, and the other, whether or not it was sanctioned either by law or society.  Incest was both highly taboo and highly illegal in medieval Europe.

I wouldn't mind seeing it as a minor theme in a dark fantasy game, but don't find it in any way compelling or workable as a major theme for a PC.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 juillet 2010 - 09:41 .

[zahra]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

zahra wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

zahra wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...

It's quite telling that most people aren't offended by impregnating an evil woman with a god-child that could very well doom all of humanity... but THIS is somehow "icky."

People are far more forgiving of mass evil and pure malevolence then they are even the slightest deviation from social norms in regards to interpersonal relationships.

Mass murder of innocents, birthing demon gods for the sake of convenience, abominations spewing things out in the darkness of the earth = Acceptable.

Partaking in a relationship with more closeness then some are comfortable with = BAD BAD BAD.

I agree. How we view the world/relationships = social construct. 

When you see someones head chopped off on television/Sudanese genocide/countries being bombed = Its ok.

Anything remotely sexually deviant = OMG CALL THE CAVALRY

Incest causes mutations in genes.

And mutations are more horrifying than having someones head blown off? The possibility of buckteeth and dyslexia is more scary than the casual acceptance of mass murder?

I don't like the idea of incest in DA:O. But a valid point is a valid point, and that is why I was agreeing with the poster above me.

You completely missed my point, which was that society constructs things for a reason. Raging against society without understanding what is and what is not BS with in is just stupid.

And what value judgment system are we using to deem which social construct is good/bad/acceptable/based on sound reasoning/evidence?? What the "society" (I am going to assume that you mean western civilization, since there are different definitions of that term considering the fact that the world is kind of big if you haven't noticed) decides is not always good (or bad either), what people should recognize is the fact that social constructs exist and therefore most of the time our opinions are not necessarily our own i.e. something we processed intellectually and independently.

That was my point, actually. 

[Azint]

Whatever moves, right? Incest be damned.

Funny, very much so.

[elearon1]

>>:Right...very creepy.<<



Though I've been trying hard to defend my idea and explain to people that, "No, this is not a troll thread" I did find that picture response very amusing - you get a cookie. (incestuous cookie, of course, but a cookie nonetheless)

[Khayness]

filaminstrel wrote...

Merely reproductively speaking incest is no worse than homosexuality if you simply don't have kids.

Love between two men is the true love, love with a woman is a false love because it's only for the sake of giving birth to a child!

I told you The Symposium is disturbing.

[dheer]