16 réponses à ce sujet

[SizzlinKola]

 I'm planning to continue my Adept to Insanity also. I'm also trying to knock out the ally achievements. Anyone know which two allies I should use throughout the whole playthrough?

[InHarmsWay]

Miranda! Has to be one of your squadmates throughout the game. I used either Garrus or Grunt as the other team mate.



Don't use New Game+ with your Adept. Adept are impossible to playthrough in on Insanity NG+. Import your character from ME1 or create a new one.

[Urazz]

Generally, I would suggest Miranda and Garrus for electrical or shielded targets. I use Miranda and Grunt for Collectors. Those 2 combos work for pretty much any class.

[Vhira]

Think OP is referring to ME1. For each playthrough, you'll likely want a squadmate with Decryption and Electronics to unlock all the loot (Garrus, Tali, Kaidan). Other than that, it's personal preference. Liara's Singularity is auto-win and both Ashley and Wrex have Immunity to soak up damage.

Multiple copies of maxed out Lift and Singularity break the game, making the difficulty level trivial.  Assault Rifle or Sniper Rifle bonus talents are handy for anything extra long range.

Modifié par Vhira, 14 juillet 2010 - 11:53 .

[JLBoyyy]

if you have decryption as a bonus skill, you should use liara (with max electronics) and ashley or wrex. if you want to use another one, you can use any bonus skill, kaiden with max decryptiona nd electronics, and ashley or wrex.



thats just a suggestion for overpoweredness btw

[amcnow]

WOW!  The first 2 responses are just FAIL!

Anyways, I recommend Ashley and Garrus as squadmates.  Garrus for decryption, electronics and killing; Ashley for tanking and more killing.  You can take Tali over Garrus if you desire AI Hacking, but she's not as durable or as well versed in weapon kills.  Assault rifle is the best bonus talent (shotgun is viable but risky) for an Adept.  It kills faster than pistols and allows you to viably forgo Basic Armor in favor of better talents.

[JLBoyyy]

although you may be true about that one combination and the basic armor thing, pistols are proven to have the highest dps of all guns. so actually, the pistol (with master marksman put on all the time) is the best.



but msotly, i think you just need ashley or wrex (whichever one you like most?) for a more additional way (especially when your on the lower levels), or witht e right bonus talent, you can have super crowd control (if you think you can handle it, its always fun to put adept, liara, and kaiden together and control the whole battlefield without even getting shot at).

[The Grey Ranger]

JLBoyyy wrote...

if you have decryption as a bonus skill, you should use liara (with max electronics) and ashley or wrex. if you want to use another one, you can use any bonus skill, kaiden with max decryptiona nd electronics, and ashley or wrex.

thats just a suggestion for overpoweredness btw

The problem with taking decryption as a bonus on an adept is that you can run into the power wheel bug.  If you only want to use it for unlocking crates that's fine,  but if you want to use it for sabotaging anything, you'll have to either skip an adept skill, or map it to a quick key (pc) or right shoulder button (360)

As far as squad mates go, Wrex and Kaiden would work very well.  That would give you a very solid tank, good biotics and some tech skills for backup.

I actually find Tali to be a bit more durable that Garrus in the early going.  He doesn't really start getting good until you unlock medium armor and his electronics skill and he starts getting some shield bonus.  Where as Tali can invest in that and quarian machinist right from the start.  Both of which will give her some bonus shields.
As far as adept builds go JLBoyyy is right master marksman pistol is the highest dps in the game, and shield bootst has a good synergy with barrier.
For an insanity adept, I'd go something like:
Basic armor 5
Pistol 12
Throw 12
Lift 12
Barrier 9(7)
Stasis 12
Warp 12
Singularity 12
Bastion 12
Spectre 4(6)
Bonus whatever 0
or if you prefer an assault rifle adept,

Armor 3
Pistol 0
Throw 12
Lift 12
Warp 12
Singularity 12
Barrier 12
Stasis 12
Bastion 12
Spectre 6
AR 9

Modifié par The Grey Ranger, 15 juillet 2010 - 09:03 .

[amcnow]

JLBoyyy wrote...

although you may be true about that one combination and the basic armor thing, pistols are proven to have the highest dps of all guns. so actually, the pistol (with master marksman put on all the time) is the best.

but msotly, i think you just need ashley or wrex (whichever one you like most?) for a more additional way (especially when your on the lower levels), or witht e right bonus talent, you can have super crowd control (if you think you can handle it, its always fun to put adept, liara, and kaiden together and control the whole battlefield without even getting shot at).

With Master Marksman active, that is true.  However, unless you're using 2 Medical Exoskeletons, the DPS will level out when Master Marksman isn't active.  Even with them, the pistol's DPS superiority isn't as noticeable on an Adept as it is on a Vanguard (who has an additional pistol damage modifier in his/her class talent).  Also, it still requires 5 extra points in a talent you don't need as an Adept.

As for tech bonus talents, I say that's not a good idea for 5 reasons:

A) Power wheel space
Posibility for points to be spread too thin
C) Posibility for an arguably more effective biotic talent to be neglected in favor of said bonus talent
D) Lack of omni-tool
E) Tech talents are generally weaker without other tech talents

I still think Assault Rifles are a better choice for an overall Adept build.  Here's a good AR Adept build...

Basic Armor 0
Pistol 0
Throw 6 (12)
Lift 12
Barrier 12
Stasis 12
Warp 12
Singularity 12
Bastion 12
Spectre 12 (6)
Assault Rifle 12

I say a maxed Spectre talent is more important than a maxed Throw, but some will disagree.  Bastion + Barrier will effectively do the job of Basic Armor's Shield Boost, making Basic Armor next to useless.

Modifié par amcnow, 15 juillet 2010 - 08:58 .

[The Grey Ranger]

amcnow wrote...


With Master Marksman active, that is true.  However, unless you're using 2 Medical Exoskeletons, the DPS will level out when Master Marksman isn't active.  Even with them, the pistol's DPS superiority isn't as noticeable on an Adept as it is on a Vanguard (who has an additional pistol damage modifier in his/her class talent).  Also, it still requires 5 extra points in a talent you don't need as an Adept.

As for tech bonus talents, I say that's not a good idea for 5 reasons:

A) Power wheel space
Posibility for points to be spread too thin
C) Posibility for an arguably more effective biotic talent to be neglected in favor of said bonus talent
D) Lack of omni-tool
E) Tech talents are generally weaker without other tech talents

I still think Assault Rifles are a better choice for an overall Adept build.  Here's a good AR Adept build...

Basic Armor 0
Pistol 0
Throw 6 (12)
Lift 12
Barrier 12
Stasis 12
Warp 12
Singularity 12
Bastion 12
Spectre 12 (6)
Assault Rifle 12

I say a maxed Spectre talent is more important than a maxed Throw, but some will disagree.  Bastion + Barrier will effectively do the job of Basic Armor's Shield Boost, making Basic Armor next to useless.

Well, two medical exo's is the best choice for a power heavy class like adept, especially on insanity where you're going to live or die by your crowd control.  The difference is you're only advancing throw to basic, so there are more things it won't affect.  Master throw will work on pretty much everything, if you're going to stop at anything short of master, you should free up the extra 2 point and at least get it to advanced.  Master throw will knock down armatures and krogan battlemasters as well as having a lower recharge time and a bigger area of effect.

I will assume that you're maxing spectre and assault rifle for the extra damage.  Unless you're running a high heat AR build and use overkill a lot,  AR 12 doesn't give you anything over AR  11.  The difference between an AR 9 specte 6 build vs AR 12 spectre 12 build is 13.59 dps, assuming a spectre x rifle with no mods.

The basic numbers for this work out as follows:

AR 12 or 11, there's no functional difference spectre 12 or 11, once again, no difference as far as dps is concerned, works out to 453.6.  An AR 9, spectre 6 build work out at 440.01 dps.  The difference is even less with a lower assault rifle since it is a percentage increase.  Admittedly it will increase slightly if you take into account damage increasing weapon mods, but not as much as you'd really expect. 

The difference between barrier 7 and barrier 12 is 300 shield points.  Both will be able to perma barrier.  Basic shield boost, assuming barrier 7 and colossus x light will restore 322 shield points per use.  So for armor 3, barrier 7 vs barrier 12, you can free up 2 skill points that can be used elsewhere and gain an extra 22 points of available shield.

credit for weapon damage math goes to Macsbug and Ablated Crayon over on the old Bioware forums.

[Vhira]

I've played two adepts, one with Assault Rifle and the other with the Sniper Rifle bonus talent. With Spectre X guns, I don't see a whole lot of difference between pistols and assault rifles besides an minor increase in range. If you're trying to maximize XP to get to level 60, particularly by exiting the Mako on explorable planets, the sniper rifle is an incredible asset. Biotic powers simply can't reach 150+ meters to hit snipers or Geth Armature/Colossus units.

Now that I have all my ally achievements, I pretty much take Liara everywhere with Singularity. If I'm playing a class without tech skills, then I rotate Kaidan, Garrus or Tali. Soldier classes just don't seem all that useful -- on the higher difficulties, skills that result in you taking no damage whatsoever like Lift, Singularity and Sabotage are more useful than Barrier or Immunity.

Modifié par Vhira, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:33 .

[amcnow]

Here's the comprehensive math for comparing Advanced Barrier and Master Barrier cooldowns.  This example will use the following scenario:

Barrier 7 vs. Barrier 12 (50s CD vs. 40s CD)
Savant X bio-amp (40% CD bonus)
Bastion 12 Specialization (28% CD bonus)
2 Medical Exoskeletons (23% CD bonus each)
Asari Ally Achievement (10% CD bonus)
75% Paragon points (5% CD bonus)

Please be aware that programming logic tells us percentage-based reductions (like damage reduction and cooldowns) are multiplicative to allow for approaching 0 but prevent actually reaching 0.  As such, a multiplier is computed for use in determining the comprehensive cooldown bonus.  The cooldown percentages are coverted to decimal form.  For example, 23% less recharge time would be 0.77...

Barrier 7
----------
50 (base CD) * 0.60 (bio-amp CD multiplier) * 0.72 (Bastion 12 CD multiplier) * 0.77 (Medical Exo CD multiplier) * 0.77 (Medical Exo CD multiplier) * 0.90 (Asari Ally CD multiplier) * 0.95 (75% Paragon score CD multiplier) = 10.9496772 seconds new cooldown time.

Barrier 12
------------
40 (base CD) * 0.60 (bio-amp CD multiplier) * 0.72 (Bastion 12 CD multiplier) * 0.77 (Medical Exo CD multiplier) * 0.77 (Medical Exo CD multiplier) * 0.90 (Asari Ally CD multiplier) * 0.95 (75% Paragon score CD multiplier) = 8.75974176 seconds new cooldown time.

As you can see, Bastion Barrier cooldown times can get pretty low.  I won't bother with duration numbers since, technically, you can achieve perma-Barrier with rank 1.  However, you need 4 points to unlock arguably the most important talent in the game.  So, you might as well go to Barrier 7 for the extra protection.  To compare, here's the math for Shield Boost recharge time:

45 (base CD) * 0.77 (Medical Exo CD multiplier) * 0.77 (Medical Exo CD multiplier) * 0.95 (75% Paragon score CD multiplier) = 25.346475 seconds new cooldown time.

Since Shield Boost is neither a biotic nor a tech talent, there are no other multipliers to add to the equation as an Adept.  Bastion Barrier can be used 2-3 times more often than Shield Boost.  Bastion Barrier provides an extra layer of protection where Shield Boost doesn't.  To add insult to injury, Bastion Barrier also provides the same functionality of Shield Boost while having a MUCH longer duration.  So unless you just need to have Pistols (which I still say isn't worth the points needed to unlock it as an Adept), Shield Boost (and by extension Basic Armor) are completely redundant and utterly useless.

Modifié par amcnow, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:22 .

[amcnow]

The Grey Ranger wrote...

Well, two medical exo's is the best choice for a power heavy class like adept, especially on insanity where you're going to live or die by your crowd control.  The difference is you're only advancing throw to basic, so there are more things it won't affect.  Master throw will work on pretty much everything, if you're going to stop at anything short of master, you should free up the extra 2 point and at least get it to advanced.  Master throw will knock down armatures and krogan battlemasters as well as having a lower recharge time and a bigger area of effect.

We agree on the Medical Exoskeletons and the effectiveness of the various levels of Throw.  However, some people may not use Throw as liberally as others.  For those that use it more conservatively, the extra points in Throw may be better served somewhere else.

The Grey Ranger wrote...

I will assume that you're maxing spectre and assault rifle for the extra damage.  Unless you're running a high heat AR build and use overkill a lot,  AR 12 doesn't give you anything over AR  11.  The difference between an AR 9 specte 6 build vs AR 12 spectre 12 build is 13.59 dps, assuming a spectre x rifle with no mods.

The basic numbers for this work out as follows:

AR 12 or 11, there's no functional difference spectre 12 or 11, once again, no difference as far as dps is concerned, works out to 453.6.  An AR 9, spectre 6 build work out at 440.01 dps.  The difference is even less with a lower assault rifle since it is a percentage increase.  Admittedly it will increase slightly if you take into account damage increasing weapon mods, but not as much as you'd really expect.

The whole purpose of Overkill, and to a lesser extent Marksman, is to run a high heat build (2 Rail Extension VII mods + Inferno X rounds for example).  With that said, I do agree with Master Overkill being of marginally better use than Advanced Overkill.

I also concede Spectre 11 vs. Spectre 12 having a minimal gap.

The Grey Ranger wrote...

The difference between barrier 7 and barrier 12 is 300 shield points.  Both will be able to perma barrier.  Basic shield boost, assuming barrier 7 and colossus x light will restore 322 shield points per use.  So for armor 3, barrier 7 vs barrier 12, you can free up 2 skill points that can be used elsewhere and gain an extra 22 points of available shield.

credit for weapon damage math goes to Macsbug and Ablated Crayon over on the old Bioware forums.

Please see my above post for why Shield Boost is still a waste of talent points.  Also, your Barrier numbers only take base Barrier protection points into account.  I can do the math if you like, but it seems you already know how to do that.  Suffice it to say, the protection gap is much larger once the comprehensive calculations are conducted.

I concede to Barrier 7 being a viable option.  Hell, Barrier 12 may very well be too much protection for seasoned players.  However, having Barrier 12 is still a viable option for those that feel they need it on Insanity playthrough.

Here is a build I think we can both agree on for an AR Adept:

Basic Armor 0
Pistol 0
Throw 12
Lift 12
Barrier 7
Stasis 12
Warp 12
Singularity 12
Bastion 12
Spectre 12 (11)
Assault Rifle 11 (12)

With regards to Spectre and Assault Rifles, the last point will only determine whether you get Master Unity or Master Overkill.  On Insanity playthroughs, Master Unity will probably be the better life saver.  In the end, however, it's a matter of preference.

Modifié par amcnow, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:45 .

[mcsupersport]

Quite frankly, you shouldn't ever need anything over Spectre 4, for basic revival of down teammates. The bonus you get from the added damage is minimal for 8 points of skills. Take the bonus to armor, or barrier instead, such as shield boost level one, and max barrier.



With max pistols being better DPS with master marksman, I wouldn't ever take AR except for personal preference. Sniper rifle or some other talent would be better served.

Since Singularity doesn't effect the big animals like Colossus or Saren, last game I didn't take it above Advanced level, which gives decent Crowd Control, as well as freeing pts for other use.





Fun play note with Singularity, was I found in many areas I could cast it on the roof of the structure and suck everyone up and hold them on the roof for easier shooting. This made several fights very easy, because they were not being tossed behind boxes hiding them from being hit. Also the combination of lift then stasis works well on the heavies, plus it is fun to see them frozen 5+ feet off the ground. Colossus was lifted, then pause for a few secs then stasis, then your lift is off cooldown, then when stasis ends lift and repeat.

[The Grey Ranger]

amcnow I'd agree that it's a functional build, my personal preference runs to the pistol adept build however, and I've never really found a need for spectre past basic unity.

As for advanced vs master barrier, for almost all situations, I find that I need enough barrier to give me time to get some crowd control active, after that it's all about keeping the enemy under some biotic effect. I've found advanced to be more than enough for that purpose, especially when the the bastion regen is taken into account.

I find that I use throw very frequently, especially in combination with lift in outdoor fights. As long as the enemy doesn't pop immunity, it is pretty well a death sentence.

I find that singularity works very well, the way mcsupersport suggests using it. I also find it to be an effective way to group enemies to hit them with a full round of tech powers. Say my adept uses singualarity and my party tech follows it up with sabotage, overload and damping on the grouped opponents. It works quite well with with Wrex and Tali, since both have a shotgun carnage to use on the massed group as well.

As for overkill/marksman, I'd agree the only purpose for overkill is to run a high heat build.  Marksman, however, has the direct effect of increasing the rate of your pistol fire by 50%, 4 rounds per second, to 6 rounds per second, iirc.  So even if I choose to run a low heat build for pistol, say a spectre x with 2 frictionless, it will still have an application.

Modifié par The Grey Ranger, 17 juillet 2010 - 09:26 .

[amcnow]

I think y'all are underestimating the Spectre and Assault Rifle talents. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. There is more than one way to play an Adept. That's what makes them fun.



mcsupersport's Singularity strategy is a sound one, btw.

[The Grey Ranger]

Nope, I've played through with a few AR adepts.