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[Altima Darkspells]

Lomopingseph wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Even after the tower was cleared, several mages came forth about how wrong they were by thinking that the templars weren't needed.

The Templars would not be needed if the Mages were in a position in which they could police themselves.

http://dragonage.wik...tany_of_Adralla

That mage figured out a counter to every form of mind control, every demonic summoning, and every dream walker.
There isn't any reason mage controlled Circles couldn't employ specialized mages to assume the roles the Templar currently fill.

And... what would be the difference between this Mage Police Force and the Templars?

Mages have mage interests at heart.  Templars tolerate their abominable existance until they have an excuse to butcher them.

The Chantry uses Mages as their unofficial army.  Whenever a sufficient threat materializes, the Chantry marches out their little mages, who are the most powerful fighting force on the face of Thedas, and completely eliminates it.  Otherwise, the Chantry does its best to control and hinder mages wherever they go.

Mages are able to bend the rules of reality to their whim.  They are powerful.  The Chantry does not want them to coalesce back into something of a Tevinter Imperium again--and by keeping them locked up in the Circles and constantly hunting apostates, they ensure that they keep non-Circle mages to a minimum.  Add to that they rile up the masses with stories about how mages are 'evi', about how they brought darkspawn/sin/whatever into the world.

Of course, the Templars are nice to have around when a mage goes Maleficar or gets possessed, but one could make an argument that there would be much fewer examples if the Templars weren't so vicious in their huntings.

Lastly, let's all not forget the Chantry's hypocrisy--they use blood magic themselves to track mages who run from the tower.

[BelSirk]

SDNcN wrote...

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Even after the tower was cleared, several mages came forth about how wrong they were by thinking that the templars weren't needed.

The Templars would not be needed if the Mages were in a position in which they could police themselves.

http://dragonage.wik...tany_of_Adralla

That mage figured out a counter to every form of mind control, every demonic summoning, and every dream walker.
There isn't any reason mage controlled Circles couldn't employ specialized mages to assume the roles the Templar currently fill.

And the templars too... they drain power of the caster, get a stronger control of themselve and even use spirit energy to harm them...  Of coures the Litany it's useful but is a unique item mean the templars are powerful, and with lyrium are even more powerful... even better they could just throw pure lyrium to the caster....

And on my opinion, the Templars are too lazy with the mages, they should learn fromt he Qunari, if the mage isn't a tranquil , they shouldn't have  tongue and wearing a lash (or being a very good Andrastenian)

Ah please, a mage being vigilant against other mage isn't safe, that is how Uldred have a fulll horde of Blood mage inside the circle wiotuh the first enchanter know it

And it's very easy understand how dangerou are the mage withotuh control, a simple kid with a desire demon (no a pride) was enough for bring Redcliiff almsot killed.. you don't need create history about how evil can become a mage witouth a true control... at least with the chantry method, you can track the abomination until get able to kill it

Modifié par BelSirk, 15 juillet 2010 - 06:39 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

BelSirk wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Even after the tower was cleared, several mages came forth about how wrong they were by thinking that the templars weren't needed.

The Templars would not be needed if the Mages were in a position in which they could police themselves.

http://dragonage.wik...tany_of_Adralla

That mage figured out a counter to every form of mind control, every demonic summoning, and every dream walker.
There isn't any reason mage controlled Circles couldn't employ specialized mages to assume the roles the Templar currently fill.

And the templars too... they drain power of the caster, get a stronger control of themselve and even use spirit energy to harm them...  Of coures the Litany it's useful but is a unique item mean the templars are powerful, and with lyrium are even more powerful... even better they could just throw pure lyrium to the caster....

And on my opinion, the Templars are too lazy with the mages, they should learn fromt he Qunari, if the mage isn't a tranquil , they shouldn't have  tongue and wearing a lash (or being a very good Andrastenian)

Ah please, a mage being vigilant against other mage isn't safe, that is how Uldred have a fulll horde of Blood mage inside the circle wiotuh the first enchanter know it

And it's very easy understand how dangerou are the mage withotuh control, a simple kid with a desire demon (no a pride) was enough for bring Redcliiff almsot killed.. you don't need create history about how evil can become a mage witouth a true control... at least with the chantry method, you can track the abomination until get able to kill it

To add, a lot of the mages, even Wynne, already knew that Uldred was a powerhungry tryant. Wynne almost admits that in the tower, yet she still doesn't regret anything...

Mages can't regulate mages. That is like having BP regulate itself...

[Riona45]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

Mages can't regulate mages. That is like having BP regulate itself...

Even if that's true, it doesn't follow that the Chantry should be the entity that regulates them.

[Riona45]

BelSirk wrote...
And on my opinion, the Templars are too lazy with the mages, they should learn fromt he Qunari, if the mage isn't a tranquil , they shouldn't have  tongue and wearing a lash (or being a very good Andrastenian)

POE!

[Altima Darkspells]

If non-Tranquil mages couldn't cast (by virtue or not having tongues), then Thedas would now be following the Qun.



For all their hatred, Mages are the ones who saved the Chantry's arse against the Qunai.

[SwordsmanofShadow]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

BelSirk wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Even after the tower was cleared, several mages came forth about how wrong they were by thinking that the templars weren't needed.

The Templars would not be needed if the Mages were in a position in which they could police themselves.

http://dragonage.wik...tany_of_Adralla

That mage figured out a counter to every form of mind control, every demonic summoning, and every dream walker.
There isn't any reason mage controlled Circles couldn't employ specialized mages to assume the roles the Templar currently fill.

And the templars too... they drain power of the caster, get a stronger control of themselve and even use spirit energy to harm them...  Of coures the Litany it's useful but is a unique item mean the templars are powerful, and with lyrium are even more powerful... even better they could just throw pure lyrium to the caster....

And on my opinion, the Templars are too lazy with the mages, they should learn fromt he Qunari, if the mage isn't a tranquil , they shouldn't have  tongue and wearing a lash (or being a very good Andrastenian)

Ah please, a mage being vigilant against other mage isn't safe, that is how Uldred have a fulll horde of Blood mage inside the circle wiotuh the first enchanter know it

And it's very easy understand how dangerou are the mage withotuh control, a simple kid with a desire demon (no a pride) was enough for bring Redcliiff almsot killed.. you don't need create history about how evil can become a mage witouth a true control... at least with the chantry method, you can track the abomination until get able to kill it

To add, a lot of the mages, even Wynne, already knew that Uldred was a powerhungry tryant. Wynne almost admits that in the tower, yet she still doesn't regret anything...

Mages can't regulate mages. That is like having BP regulate itself...

To this I would say: what about the Tevinter Empire? They
openly used blood magic and all kinds of other 'dark' magic, yet it seems there
was no Abomination apocalypse scenario. The only thing that happened that we
know of on a large scale was the first blight, and that was due to the Taint,
not demonic possession-( Avernus clearly states that the darkspawn taint is
alien to the denizens of the fade).

This means two things: either demonic infection only became
possible after the first blight, or the Imperium had some kind of system in
place to keep demons from taking over. And since it was an empire ruled by
mages that lasted several centuries, clearly mages (corrupt ones even) can keep
a system in place that protects people from demons.

Now whether that system protects people from power hungry
mages on their own is up to debate. As to the original point of topic, always
play as a mage. If the Templars try their anti-mage BS, Hawke might just have
to set some people on fire.

[Izhalezan]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Lomopingseph wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Even after the tower was cleared, several mages came forth about how wrong they were by thinking that the templars weren't needed.

The Templars would not be needed if the Mages were in a position in which they could police themselves.

http://dragonage.wik...tany_of_Adralla

That mage figured out a counter to every form of mind control, every demonic summoning, and every dream walker.
There isn't any reason mage controlled Circles couldn't employ specialized mages to assume the roles the Templar currently fill.

And... what would be the difference between this Mage Police Force and the Templars?

Mages have mage interests at heart.  Templars tolerate their abominable existance until they have an excuse to butcher them.

The Chantry uses Mages as their unofficial army.  Whenever a sufficient threat materializes, the Chantry marches out their little mages, who are the most powerful fighting force on the face of Thedas, and completely eliminates it.  Otherwise, the Chantry does its best to control and hinder mages wherever they go.

Mages are able to bend the rules of reality to their whim.  They are powerful.  The Chantry does not want them to coalesce back into something of a Tevinter Imperium again--and by keeping them locked up in the Circles and constantly hunting apostates, they ensure that they keep non-Circle mages to a minimum.  Add to that they rile up the masses with stories about how mages are 'evi', about how they brought darkspawn/sin/whatever into the world.

Of course, the Templars are nice to have around when a mage goes Maleficar or gets possessed, but one could make an argument that there would be much fewer examples if the Templars weren't so vicious in their huntings.

Lastly, let's all not forget the Chantry's hypocrisy--they use blood magic themselves to track mages who run from the tower.

Let's not forget that a Mages initiation is basically being thrown into the Fade with a giant "possess me" sign and are killed if they fail the test.

[Izhalezan]

[/quote]


Ah please, a mage being vigilant against other mage isn't safe, that is how Uldred have a fulll horde of Blood mage inside the circle wiotuh the first enchanter know it


[/quote]

Let's see... Uldred's "army" was fellow blood magdes sick of oppression and yearning for freedom, he took advantage of them for his own goals. If you interrogate the first one she pretty much says "we did this for our freedom"

[Riona45]

Ah please, a mage being vigilant against other mage isn't safe, that is how Uldred have a fulll horde of Blood mage inside the circle wiotuh the first enchanter know it

Not sure who wrote this, but...it makes no sense!  While Uldred was doing his bad guy business, the templars were the ones who were supposed to be in charge.  By your logic, templars being vigilant against mages isn't safe because it didn't work that time.

[Jimbe2693]

I think blood magic is overestimated generally



Anyone would think blood mages are worse than darkspawn the way the chantry goes on about them.

[khordlambert]

Grommash94 wrote...

It may even be possible to actually control them...maybe by taking control of the lyrium trade in the Free Marches. It could be quite interesting to have an army of templars aiding a Hawke-mage hehe.

And whoever controls the lyrium, CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE!

Sorry, had to do it.

[raider969]

In my first playthrough of dragon age 2, I'm going to side with the templars at any given opportunity no matter the outcome. I mean come on! How could anyone resist their awesome looking armor!

[raider969]

And plus I hate apostates with attitudes. They are sinners in the eyes of the maker, and must be cleansed of their wickedness swiftly, and without hesitation.

Modifié par raider969, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:03 .

[ErichHartmann]

raider969 wrote...

And plus I hate apostates with attitudes. They are sinners in the eyes of the maker and must be cleansed of their wickedness by the only humane way I know; a cold metal through the chest swiftly and without hesitation.

Pfft, The Maker doesn't exist.

[raider969]

ErichHartmann wrote...

raider969 wrote...

And plus I hate apostates with attitudes. They are sinners in the eyes of the maker and must be cleansed of their wickedness by the only humane way I know; a cold metal through the chest swiftly and without hesitation.

Pfft, The Maker doesn't exist.

You shall be one of many left behind when the faithful ascend into the arms of the maker.

[NKKKK]

Look no one here is undermining the Templar's importance, the fact that the chantry keeps them all to themselves when the Wardens could use them against Emmisaries is bad.



I love Templars, I hate the chantry though.



Most people's argument is that a Mage's lifestyle is horrendous. We can all surely agree that we should change something.

[Bryy_Miller]

This will be interesting when stacked up against Ferelden's Circle being disbanded (if you went that route).

[Riona45]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

This will be interesting when stacked up against Ferelden's Circle being disbanded (if you went that route).

Indeed, I look forward to seeing what comes of that particular choice.

[Bryy_Miller]

Especially since I just now imported the non-bugged saves into my Awakening.

[Lotion Soronarr]

SDNcN wrote...

If you were a mage who would you rather have watching over you?

A normal human who is indoctrinated by a Religon that barely tolerates Mages.

or

A Mage who has similar experiences as you do. (Taken from their family and growing up in the circle)

It's irrelevant.
Supervision forces are not chosen based on the likes and dislikes of those who are being supervised. But rather on effectiveness.

You say mages are more likely to be sympathetic? Maby.But they might also be more likely to look the other way.


I for one hope we cna join the tempalrs and smite down anti-chantry fools.

[Anarya]

NKKKK wrote...

Look no one here is undermining the Templar's importance, the fact that the chantry keeps them all to themselves when the Wardens could use them against Emmisaries is bad.

I love Templars, I hate the chantry though.

Most people's argument is that a Mage's lifestyle is horrendous. We can all surely agree that we should change something.

I wouldn't say horrendous. A Qunari mage has a horrendous life. Human mages have the "gilded cage" thing going on, which I would classify as frustratingly and unfairly restrictive but not horrendous. Tevinter mages have it pretty damn good.

I like Templars though, they're cute. And they have such snazzy armor.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Mages have mage interests at heart.  Templars tolerate their abominable existance until they have an excuse to butcher them.

The Chantry uses Mages as their unofficial army.  Whenever a sufficient threat materializes, the Chantry marches out their little mages, who are the most powerful fighting force on the face of Thedas, and completely eliminates it.  Otherwise, the Chantry does its best to control and hinder mages wherever they go.

Mages are able to bend the rules of reality to their whim.  They are powerful.  The Chantry does not want them to coalesce back into something of a Tevinter Imperium again--and by keeping them locked up in the Circles and constantly hunting apostates, they ensure that they keep non-Circle mages to a minimum.  Add to that they rile up the masses with stories about how mages are 'evi', about how they brought darkspawn/sin/whatever into the world.

Of course, the Templars are nice to have around when a mage goes Maleficar or gets possessed, but one could make an argument that there would be much fewer examples if the Templars weren't so vicious in their huntings.

Lastly, let's all not forget the Chantry's hypocrisy--they use blood magic themselves to track mages who run from the tower.

NO.

First of all, you are implying the story about mages causing all the chaos and destruction is nothing but a fabrication. That the whole religion is nothing more than a big lie to control masses. Are you sure that's the case? Got proof? No? Thought so.

Secondly, mantaining and training a police force is EXPENSIVE. The Chantry pays for the templars, their training and their equipment. They have every right to get to choose potential templars by any criteria they want. Those happns to be marital prowess (logical) and faith (also logical, you want loyal underlings).
So no. Nothing wrong with the templars, nor the Circle. Mages lives a better life than many peopel in Thedas - they got food, a roof over their head, tutoring, and can even have a position of power.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

NO.

First of all, you are implying the story about mages causing all the chaos and destruction is nothing but a fabrication. That the whole religion is nothing more than a big lie to control masses. Are you sure that's the case? Got proof? No? Thought so.

Do you have proof it's real? No? So what's the point of attacking someone for thinking it's bull? Even the dwarves, who fight them every day of their lives, don't believe in the Chantry's version.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Secondly, mantaining and training a police force is EXPENSIVE. The Chantry pays for the templars, their training and their equipment. They have every right to get to choose potential templars by any criteria they want. Those happns to be marital prowess (logical) and faith (also logical, you want loyal underlings).
So no. Nothing wrong with the templars, nor the Circle. Mages lives a better life than many peopel in Thedas - they got food, a roof over their head, tutoring, and can even have a position of power.

In other words, let's ignore how Rivain and the Dalish (and even the Chantry's own history - as the History of the Circle codex entry reveals) have mages living with non-mages because we can segregate all mages into prisons for the rest of their lives and demonize them to the public. Mages have no freedom, no basic rights, and can be killed if they accused of being a maleficar, regardless of whether it's true or not (and in Aenirin's case, there's no evidence he was, especially since Wynne invites him back to the Circle). Hardly a better life than people who are free.

[elfdwarf]

dalish and mage vs templar

mages isn't only enemy to templars

my motto is good templar is dead templar