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[fanman72]

 The impression that I get is that much like our afterlife beliefs and religions, no one is truly sure.  


Did this actually happen in the DA world? That mages invaded the DA equivalent of heaven?  Or is it something conjured up by the Chantry and no one really knows?

[MKDAWUSS]

I'm thinking it's going to be much like real-world religions, but then again, I wouldn't know.

[Khayness]

The Golden City could be a realm of a very powerful Fade being for all we know.

[SDNcN]

Chantry lies meant to subjugate Mages.

[Lomopingseph]

I think it's supposed to be open to interpretation, broseph.

Modifié par Lomopingseph, 15 juillet 2010 - 01:16 .

[Grommash94]

There is a black city...whether there is a Maker is left ambigious. There are hints that there might be, and there are hints that there isn't.

[Legbiter]

Well, David Gaider is real and exists . I'm pretty sure of that. So yes, the Maker exists in a sense.

[SelphieSK]

I remember Connor saying something about hearing the Maker, who sounded very angry or something.



Like Khayness said, maybe he's just a powerful Fade being, who knows.

[Khayness]

Legbiter wrote...

Well, David Gaider is real and exists . I'm pretty sure of that. So yes, the Maker exists in a sense.

Unless he sounds like James Mason he doesn't qualify as an omnipotent being.

[yummysoap]

If he does exist he's a massive tool. I don't think it'll ever be answered, though.

[Loc'n'lol]

I don't remember hearing or seeing any alternative explanation for the origins of the blights so until someone (in-universe) does, I'm personally assuming that this part of the story is true : a group of mages cast a very powerful spell to enter the golden city, something went horribly wrong and they returned as the first darkspawn.
It'd be interesting to know what's the official Tevinter version of this story.

The existence of a maker is challenged by the dalish elves, the dwarves (though they don't seem to know much of the fade, having no connection to it and all) and some spirits. Utlimately no-one knows for sure because he has not openly manifested himself.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 15 juillet 2010 - 01:42 .

[kaispan]

Khayness wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

Well, David Gaider is real and exists . I'm pretty sure of that. So yes, the Maker exists in a sense.

Unless he sounds like James Mason he doesn't qualify as an omnipotent being.

I don't think the Maker was ever referred to as "omnipotent"... but sometimes "all-powerful" and "all-knowing" go hand in hand when it comes to deities. The Maker is (according to Wiki) the former, whereas I would classify Gaider as the latter. ^^

[Quinnzel]

Maker? Methinks more Caretaker, I always reckoned that the Maker is merely the pawn of some larger, far more ancient and far more powerful cosmic being, and has no 'real' power (thus why he has never manifested himself) At least that what I summarised through the codex. Here comes the New Gods, same as the Old Gods.

[SDNcN]

Quinnzel wrote...

Maker? Methinks more Caretaker, I always reckoned that the Maker is merely the pawn of some larger, far more ancient and far more powerful cosmic being, and has no 'real' power (thus why he has never manifested himself) At least that what I summarised through the codex. Here comes the New Gods, same as the Old Gods.

So like Ao the Overlord in the Forgotten Realms?

[StreetlightEagle]

I'm pretty certain that the identity of the Maker will quite a major revelation in the DA series. I reckon one of our characters will meet him at some point... Hell, one of our characters might even BE him. You never know with Bioware. Regardless, he won't be god, he will be something different and much more interesting.

[Quinnzel]

SDNcN wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Maker? Methinks more Caretaker, I always reckoned that the Maker is merely the pawn of some larger, far more ancient and far more powerful cosmic being, and has no 'real' power (thus why he has never manifested himself) At least that what I summarised through the codex. Here comes the New Gods, same as the Old Gods.

So like Ao the Overlord in the Forgotten Realms?

You Ser get a cookie! As a D&D player meself that's EXACTLY how I see The Maker!

[Khayness]

SDNcN wrote...

So like Ao the Overlord in the Forgotten Realms?

I've always said DA is just a D&D spinoff, played on a sanctuary world Ao keeps safe from divine influence.

[Demx]

Oh yes, he exits but everyone was being a bastard. So he went on vacation.

[Daerog]

Did the magisters invade the Fade with their physical bodies? Sure, that sounds pretty awesome, powerful, and quite worrying. Invade the Golden City? Who knows. Maker real? Maybe, maybe something or some force/presence does exist that is interpreted as the Maker by some and the Creators by others, but both could be wrong with specifics but right in its existence. Doubtful it will be played off like that D&D stuff, it just sounds aweful and boring (to me).

Also, Fade =/= Heaven, more like Limbo, right next door to Hell. Those who believe and are true to the Maker will be with the Maker while the unbelievers or wicked will wander the Fade lost, probably will eventually be enslaved by a demon.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

I think signs point towards at least aspects of the story being true. There were most likely Tevinter Magisters who physically entered the Fade in hopes of gaining power, but were corrupted and twisted into the first darkspawn. There was a woman Andraste who with her barbarian-chieftain husband waged war on the Imperium in the name of the Maker. Irrefutably, Andraste's ashes can lift ailments that are beyond the powers of modern magi to heal. The last is most telling.



However, the Tevinter believe that Andraste was a powerful mage herself, and it's quite possible she was one with the backing of a very powerful fade spirit. Like Wynne, only with a more powerful spirit. And the Magisters being corrupted by their entering the Fade does not necessarily mean it was the Maker who cursed them.



Finally, the original elves were immortal, so wouldn't their views on creation fall closer to the truth?



I guess we're really not supposed to know. Just like in real life.

[GodWood]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

I'm pretty certain that the identity of the Maker will quite a major revelation in the DA series.

I do not.
I believe it will simply be one of those things that are never revealed and left up to the imagination of the player.

[Riona45]

DragonOfWhiteThunder wrote...
Irrefutably, Andraste's ashes can lift ailments that are beyond the powers of modern magi to heal. The last is most telling.

Apparently, if you take Oghren with you on the Sacred Ashes quest, he mentions that the ashes are kept in an area with an awful lot of lyrium nearby...

Finally, the original elves were immortal, so wouldn't their views on creation fall closer to the truth?

The supposed immortality of elves could also just be a story.

[elfdwarf]

or maker can be very powerful demon

[NKKKK]

elfdwarf wrote...

or maker can be very powerful demon

There is no Maker! But there are Demons, oh yes. -rage Demon-

[McNoguff]

Riona45 wrote...

The supposed immortality of elves could also just be a story.

From the codex entry on Uthenera:

"Elves did not age. They were not immortal, but they did not suffer from deterioration of the mind or body. They suffered only from a deterioration of spirit."

Uthenera* was a practice that allowed for the release of an extremely elderly elven individual.

I don't think that there's any ambiguity in this codex entry or in any others, however, that would seem to indicate elves weren't ageless at one time or another. Even among people willing to use the racist epithet "knife ear," I don't recall anyone referring to "supposed" immortality. It seems pretty firmly established in DAO's canon that the elves of Arlathan were ageless, and the burial chamber where you find the Juggernaut Plate Armor is an Uthenera chamber. So they do, in fact, die.

More importantly, no matter how long a tradition goes back, unless you're a creationist or believe in the spontaneous creation of culture the creation of life and the world would predate any culture's ability to remember it, no matter how old. And the maker, like the god of Jacob in the Indiana Jones movies**, is clearly real in this fictional universe.

*somewhat homonymous with euthanasia, or mercifully ending a life— "eu" greek for good and "thanatos" greek for death, good-death

**Seriously, he's seen the ark of the covenant, drank from the holy grail, and he's still supposed to be an atheist. Weird.

Modifié par McNoguff, 15 juillet 2010 - 05:42 .