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Level Scaling


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#1
andar91

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Posted ImagePosted ImageI gather that some people do not like the scaling that was present in DA:O. I personally had no problem with it, as I felt that it helped maintain a consistent level of challenge without being overpowering. I'm curious as to why people love it, hate it, and whether they want it, a similar system, or a completely different system implemented in DA2.

Thoughts?

#2
Lord_Saulot

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I'd be happy to stick with the same system. It worked well enough.

#3
Khayness

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Worked fine, but I'd like to see enemies getting more and more abilities as we progress.

#4
Loc'n'lol

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I'd rather have encounter scaling (ie the number and sometimes quality of your opponents changes based on your level), instead of the DAO system, it's more coherent this way and it really makes you feel how your character increases in power because he's able to handle more and tougher foes than before instead of stronger versions of the same.

Boss characters and otherwise unique enemies can be exceptions of course, but the sword fodder that you meet over and over again shouldn't get stronger as you progress through the game.

#5
Malanek

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I thought it was pretty good. It maintained a good level of challenge throughout the game. There were a couple of bugs where certain things didn't scale which made some encounters a bit rough. Levels 20-30 in awakening got out of hand though, those talents were not balanced at all.

#6
Zerthus

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I think some people don't like it just because a lot of people like high level caps, but with the way this game has it's stats, skills, etc set up I think the DA:O way worked perfectly.

#7
andar91

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Zerthus wrote...

I think some people don't like it just because a lot of people like high level caps, but with the way this game has it's stats, skills, etc set up I think the DA:O way worked perfectly.

Posted ImagePosted ImageI must say that, though I liked the scaling system in DA:O, I really hope we can go to a higher level in DA2. 

#8
Paromlin

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Gee, what marketing drill does... "Oh gosh Oblivion level scaling sucks" and at the same time "DAO level scaling works."

And it works... the same way. How many times it has to be repeated that DAO's area scaling ranges are so wide apart that you'll almost always fall inside the range thus having enemies scale exactly to your level, just like in Oblivion.

Level scaling is the worst thing that happened to RPGs. Why? It's obvious, but I'll let others explain because I'm tired of this debate.

#9
soteria

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I'd rather have encounter scaling (ie the number and sometimes quality of your opponents changes based on your level), instead of the DAO system, it's more coherent this way and it really makes you feel how your character increases in power because he's able to handle more and tougher foes than before instead of stronger versions of the same.

Boss characters and otherwise unique enemies can be exceptions of course, but the sword fodder that you meet over and over again shouldn't get stronger as you progress through the game.


What's the difference between fighting tougher foes and stronger versions of the same? If DA2 is anything like DA:O, we'll be fighting a lot of humans. They're still going to be humans, only stronger, so what's the problem? Would you prefer if they changed the names of the "fodder" from "Howe Archer" to "Howe Marksman" to signify their greater strength? That seems petty.

#10
Kalfear

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had zero issue with DA:O or Awakening level scaling and hope they keep it the same!



I like levels, tells you were you are in a sence.

#11
Loc'n'lol

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Well to give you a random example maybe at level 5 you get to fight 3 weak bandits and 1 tough bandit and at level 15 you get 1 bandit leader, 3 tough bandits and 5 weak bandits. They don't all scale up but some do. If it's only a direct upgrade then indeed it makes no difference with the current system.

#12
Paromlin

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Kalfear wrote...

had zero issue with DA:O or Awakening level scaling and hope they keep it the same!

I like levels, tells you were you are in a sence.


People don't even know what's level scaling. :crying:


LEVEL SCALIN' = ENEMY LEVEL ARTIFICIALLY ADJUSTS (SCALES) TO YOUR LEVEL

#13
Kalfear

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(sighs) which is exactly what I said



Quite being a troll kid

#14
Paromlin

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Kalfear wrote...

(sighs) which is exactly what I said

 



No, what you said doesn't make any sense, trust me. I even underlined it for you.

#15
MKDAWUSS

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If it's too easy, crank the difficulty level up a little bit

#16
Kalfear

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Paromlin wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

(sighs) which is exactly what I said

 



No, what you said doesn't make any sense, trust me. I even underlined it for you.


Gawd I hate the internet some times, every kid thinks they have the right to speak!

Level scaleing

Im playing a game and meet a orc early on when im level 3 and hes orange to me
in 2nd game I meet orc when im level 20 and hes orange to me

Thats level scaleing and EXACTLY WHAT I ****G SAID

MKDAWUSS wrote...

If it's too easy, crank the difficulty level up a little bit


Very true

Modifié par Kalfear, 15 juillet 2010 - 03:48 .


#17
lv12medic

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I don't mind the level scaling in DA:O.  In essence as you level up you get better with more abilities, but at the same time a random bandit can potentially kill anyone, if they're lucky enough.  Nothing like having the hero go down by a cross-eyed bandit archer that was actually aiming somewhere else and ended up hitting you Posted Image

#18
Paromlin

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Kalfear wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

(sighs) which is exactly what I said

 



No, what you said doesn't make any sense, trust me. I even underlined it for you.


Gawd I hate the internet some times, every kid thinks they have the right to speak!

Level scaleing

Im playing a game and meet a orc early on when im level 3 and hes orange to me
in 2nd game I meet orc when im level 20 and hes orange to me

Thats level scaleing and EXACTLY WHAT I ****G SAID



What do you mean.. he's orange? And you're green? :wizard: His colour (white, yellow, orange) doesn't have anything to do with his level, you know. Just saying. :)

Ok, now, trying to get you back on the rails: you said you like leveling in a thread about level scaling. Simply put; it's not connected. I like leveling too and hate level scaling. Why? Because it's not connected.

#19
soteria

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Well to give you a random example maybe at level 5 you get to fight 3 weak bandits and 1 tough bandit and at level 15 you get 1 bandit leader, 3 tough bandits and 5 weak bandits. They don't all scale up but some do. If it's only a direct upgrade then indeed it makes no difference with the current system.


Well, to be honest, I'd prefer that, too, but it seems like it would take a lot more resources. The current system isn't really set up to work that way, since encounters seem to be designed by placing individual enemies and letting them scale. In BG2, assuming it was like NWN, encounters were designed either by individually placing monsters or by placing pre-designed "encounters" of variable strength with different types of enemies.

#20
Fishy

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My warden was climbing the frostback mountain the other day ...
At the top he realized that the high dragon was level 20 and he was only level 10.So my Warden declimbed the frostback mountain and started to kill wolve outside lothering for 4 day until he was powerful enough for the dragon.

He learned .. Each wolve gave him fighting information! . Now he's ready for the dragon
Killing wolve pay!


Level and abilities are present for gameplay purpose and has nothing to do with the story.

Modifié par Suprez30, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:13 .


#21
Ulicus

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Item scaling bothered me way more than level scaling. Fact is, your character doesn't literally grow twenty times more powerful over the course of the adventure -- so who really gives a crap if enemies level up with you? My warriors can't literally make people fall over on their asses with a cry, either. People guarding the back entrances to warehouses in the Elven Alienage, however, should never be wearing silverite armour. Nor should every mundane guard be decked out in dragonbone, or have several sovereigns in their pockets.That's the kind of thing that ticks me off  -- though some degree of encounter scaling would be preferable, too. No-one feels heroic and badass being challenged by generic street toughs.

Modifié par Ulicus, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:15 .


#22
Fishy

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Ulicus wrote...

Item scaling bothered me way more than level scaling. Fact is, your character doesn't literally grow twenty times more powerful over the course of the adventure -- so who really gives a crap if enemies level up with you? My warriors can't literally make people fall over on their asses with a cry, either. People guarding the back entrances to warehouses in the Elven Alienage, however, should never be wearing silverite armour. Nor should every mundane guard be decked out in dragonbone, or have several sovereigns in their pockets.That's the kind of thing that ticks me off  -- though some degree of encounter scaling would be preferable, too. No-one feels heroic and badass being challenged by generic street toughs.


Exactly ..

#23
hexaligned

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They need to touch up enemy AI and encounter design, before they worry about level scaling imo. All level scaling is going to do is draw a fight out longer, I'd rather the enemies instead get abilities or strategies that make me have to stop and think and try new things to beat them.

#24
Haexpane

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Level scaling never works and has never worked in ANY RPG.



Make areas hard level. The deeper you go, the harder it gets.

#25
Grommash94

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I dont mind level scaling. Maintains a constant difficulty.



I hate item scaling though.