25 réponses à ce sujet

[Kileyan]

Rumors are that the spells are being cut and streamlined.

What else is steamlined, the inventory?

Simple question that shouldn't be super secret.

If I kill a big orange named Ogre will he drop a mess of gems and stuffI can pick up and put in my backpack? When I kill that big bad wizard will their be no loot, but just a message that says I upgraded my wizard staff with 4 percent more damage?

Will there be an inventory, and stuff to loot offf of dead opponents?

[andar91]

We don't know if ANYTHING is actually being streamlined yet. This is how rumors grow. Try and remember that rumors are just that, rumors. And believe me, I feel the same way you do-I don't want them to streamline in these ways either.

[Foolsfolly]

Gee, could you be a little more subtle with your Mass Effect 2 streamlining angst?



Stuff will be streamlined to make the game more enjoyable to play. The biggest aspect I could see being streamlined would be the Tactics screen. Make it easier to navigate while hopefully adding more strategy to the team.

[Kalfear]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Gee, could you be a little more subtle with your Mass Effect 2 streamlining angst?

Stuff will be streamlined to make the game more enjoyable to play. The biggest aspect I could see being streamlined would be the Tactics screen. Make it easier to navigate while hopefully adding more strategy to the team.

Well you gotta admit that Biowares version of Steamlined for ME2 was cutting out half the content so Id say that angst is well placed till more info is given

[Rubbish Hero]

Game uses children color blocks instead of reading now. Convo wheel. And Commander Shepard. No more reading probably due to console people sitting away from tv on couch, thumb stick work better with wheel and simple color coded children blocks work better on consoles as they are simple icons than reading from far away. This not CRPG but Mass Effect in magic land.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:08 .

[Kileyan]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Gee, could you be a little more subtle with your Mass Effect 2 streamlining angst?

Stuff will be streamlined to make the game more enjoyable to play. The biggest aspect I could see being streamlined would be the Tactics screen. Make it easier to navigate while hopefully adding more strategy to the team.

Funny you should say that. The most tactical part of the game was the great range of choices in that tactical screen. Streamlining that could only lose choices. If someone can't understand that screen, the only way to make them understand it is to make it more simple, and therefore, make it less flexible and give less choices.

Yeh I am kneejerk reacting, I've only heard they are cutting out the number of spells, but leaving in the most liked ones. Yeh maybe just rumors.

I'd rather kneejerk react now, that 2 weeks after release day, when its all said and done.

Heck, I'll still play it, just putting in my 2 cents that I sitll want an old style party combat rpg with lots of loot, inventory and character build choices.

There is no reason to circle the wagons, I don't hate the game,  love it and want it to stay the same game but better.......thats all.

Modifié par Kileyan, 15 juillet 2010 - 05:07 .

[Dick Delaware]

The screen was easy to understand, no reason to change it. NWN2 had something similar, yet you had less options but at the same time, it was way more cluttered. In my mind, streamlining (when it actually makes the game better, not when it removes features that were already good) involves removing frustration and annoyances while keeping what works.



As far as what could be scrapped? I think the skill system needs some changes - way too many useless skills in there. The Combat Tactics thing does nothing and I don't really see what it does. Crafting system is nice - it's simple to use and effective, keep all those skills.



Another thing that could go is the quest padding. The Deep Roads were probably a section too far, and there was certainly too much filler combat in the game that you could not avoid through alternatives like dialogue. I'd get rid of random encounters - these were especially irritating if you were on your way to do a Chanter's Board mission. You'd get weakened from the encounter and then you'd barely have anything left afterwards.



Honestly, I think Origins is way too streamlined in some areas already. Only one dialogue skill? Way too little.

[GodWood]

OP, calm down.

This is your second thread about this.

We know nothing of any of the stats being streamlined, that is just a rumour made up by someone.

Relax...

[Foolsfolly]

At Dick Delaware:



You liked Runecrafting? It was an expensive, tedious, and actually pointless endeavor in my mind. Mainly, because Awakening was already really easy and the runes were unnecessary. That could use some streamlining actually.

[Kileyan]

GodWood wrote...

OP, calm down.
This is your second thread about this.
We know nothing of any of the stats being streamlined, that is just a rumour made up by someone.
Relax...

And I've said again and again I don't hate Bioware, will play the game, will like the game. If you are looking to put out fires for a living, find a forest fire. I will buy it, and will like this new game, but I will also express my wishes early on what I want in the game. It is better to do so now, than saying the same thing 3 months from now when all we hear if the game is locked down due to Microsoft Xbox issues.

That said, I am praying that when they said the PC game would be more tactical, they really mean the games will be truly seperate. As in, if they need to patch something, they can do it, not wait to patch PC, xbox and ps3 all a once.

[Dick Delaware]

Foolsfolly wrote...

At Dick Delaware:

You liked Runecrafting? It was an expensive, tedious, and actually pointless endeavor in my mind. Mainly, because Awakening was already really easy and the runes were unnecessary. That could use some streamlining actually.

Never played Awakening. I know that they added some skills, but I can't really comment on whether it was good or not. But I sure as hell know that Bio games could use more dialogue options - sometimes it feels more like a dungeon crawler with a few talky bits at times. Diplomacy shouldn't just be something that helps you avoid 5% of the combat or the odd encounter here and there, it should be a full-fledged path for completing quests or even beating the game.

Fallout did this thirteen years ago, and games still haven't caught up. It's really sad.

[Bugzehat]

ME2 was streamlined in order to bring it more in line with what it was always meant to be -- an action RPG. While I wish there had been a little more customisation in the second game, the large amount of skills/abilities in the first game felt really clunky and unnecessary, considering that combat wasn't meant to be particularly tactical. DA2 is still going to have tactical combat, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to streamline things considerably (although mages do need fixing, they were overpowered compared to the other classes). If this is more than a rumour, and they are streamlining spells, I doubt it'll be a huge change -- maybe just cutting a *small* amount and reorganising things.

[Crippledcarny]

It's not an RPG if I'm not holding 16 sets of armor in my back pack!

[Archereon]

Bugzehat wrote...

ME2 was streamlined in order to bring it more in line with what it was always meant to be -- an action RPG. While I wish there had been a little more customisation in the second game, the large amount of skills/abilities in the first game felt really clunky and unnecessary, considering that combat wasn't meant to be particularly tactical. DA2 is still going to have tactical combat, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to streamline things considerably (although mages do need fixing, they were overpowered compared to the other classes). If this is more than a rumour, and they are streamlining spells, I doubt it'll be a huge change -- maybe just cutting a *small* amount and reorganising things.

All they neede to do to make the inventory system in ME1 bearable was to make items stack, and allow you to sell items in a stack.  Mass Effect is no longer an RPG in the more literal defenition.  While it is technically a RPG in the sense that you take up the role of a character, that defenition can include virtually any game with a storyline.  Rather, Mass Effect 2 is a Shooter with a large amount of dialog.  I don't begrude it for that, but applying the same to Dragon Age would be awful.
 

[Narreneth]

Kileyan wrote...

GodWood wrote...

OP, calm down.
This is your second thread about this.
We know nothing of any of the stats being streamlined, that is just a rumour made up by someone.
Relax...

And I've said again and again I don't hate Bioware, will play the game, will like the game. If you are looking to put out fires for a living, find a forest fire. I will buy it, and will like this new game, but I will also express my wishes early on what I want in the game. It is better to do so now, than saying the same thing 3 months from now when all we hear if the game is locked down due to Microsoft Xbox issues.

That said, I am praying that when they said the PC game would be more tactical, they really mean the games will be truly seperate. As in, if they need to patch something, they can do it, not wait to patch PC, xbox and ps3 all a once.

The tactics screen may have been one of the more strategic assets of the game, but it was unnecessary to use it.  The first time I beat the game on Nightmare I did it with the general "Healer" set-up for Wynne, "Damage" for Morrigan, "Defender" on Alistair, and then my character.  I didn't change a thing in any of these, and it is also what they come set to automatically. 

I play the game on Casual now when I go back and play again because the constant potion slamming got to be more tedious than anything.  I never found the game difficult and the only time I ever edited the tactics screen was on lower difficulties just to see what I could get my party to do.  Not because I needed to.

This has been one of my biggest problems with the way people are approaching the possibility of the game not being as "strategic".  I never found the game even remotely strategic (or even challenging) to begin with.  But that's fine, because I really like the game. 

That said, they've already said they're going to be leaving the combat largely unchanged for PC users.  THe changes they're making to the combat for Consoles is only supposed to make the game play smoothly with a controller (which it did not do as well in DA:O).  I personally hope they leave the tactics screen in and make it more necessary to use it.  

As far as the other aspects of the game, there's no reason to believe that they're going to do something drastic and pointless like taking out the inventory.  The inventory in DA is a very important aspect.  In ME1 it got to be more tedious than anything.  

[Nerevar-as]

No inventory no RPG? Really? On the other side Resident Evil 4 or Dead Space had better weapon upgrading and management systems, which is really sad.

[Bugzehat]

Archereon wrote...

Bugzehat wrote...

ME2 was streamlined in order to bring it more in line with what it was always meant to be -- an action RPG. While I wish there had been a little more customisation in the second game, the large amount of skills/abilities in the first game felt really clunky and unnecessary, considering that combat wasn't meant to be particularly tactical. DA2 is still going to have tactical combat, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to streamline things considerably (although mages do need fixing, they were overpowered compared to the other classes). If this is more than a rumour, and they are streamlining spells, I doubt it'll be a huge change -- maybe just cutting a *small* amount and reorganising things.

All they neede to do to make the inventory system in ME1 bearable was to make items stack, and allow you to sell items in a stack.  Mass Effect is no longer an RPG in the more literal defenition.  While it is technically a RPG in the sense that you take up the role of a character, that defenition can include virtually any game with a storyline.  Rather, Mass Effect 2 is a Shooter with a large amount of dialog.  I don't begrude it for that, but applying the same to Dragon Age would be awful.
 

Agreed about the inventory, but that's not what I was talking about and it's not the subject of this thread.

Edit: oops, yes the OP did mention the inventory.

Modifié par Bugzehat, 15 juillet 2010 - 01:13 .

[Narreneth]

Archereon wrote...

Bugzehat wrote...

ME2 was streamlined in order to bring it more in line with what it was always meant to be -- an action RPG. While I wish there had been a little more customisation in the second game, the large amount of skills/abilities in the first game felt really clunky and unnecessary, considering that combat wasn't meant to be particularly tactical. DA2 is still going to have tactical combat, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to streamline things considerably (although mages do need fixing, they were overpowered compared to the other classes). If this is more than a rumour, and they are streamlining spells, I doubt it'll be a huge change -- maybe just cutting a *small* amount and reorganising things.

All they neede to do to make the inventory system in ME1 bearable was to make items stack, and allow you to sell items in a stack.  Mass Effect is no longer an RPG in the more literal defenition.  While it is technically a RPG in the sense that you take up the role of a character, that defenition can include virtually any game with a storyline.  Rather, Mass Effect 2 is a Shooter with a large amount of dialog.  I don't begrude it for that, but applying the same to Dragon Age would be awful.
 

It's an RPG in more than just the fact that you're playing another character.  It still has multiple RPG elements, the most important of which being that you make decisions for the character and your decisions in some way affect the game world.  Other more basic elements include the fact that your character advances in level and strength as you gain experience, you choose the way you advance through your skills, and you choose the way you interact with the other characters.

What got taken out of ME2 was not a ton of RPG stuff that makes it LOL NOT N RPG!!!1!!1 LOL!!!11! but stuff that didn't fit with what they were trying to accomplish with this particular RPG.  An inventory does not make a game an RPG.  Neither does "Persuade" or "Intimidate" skills or unlimited ammo.

That said, there's absolutely no reason to believe that Dragon Age is going to undergo any of the bigger changes ME2 did.  The addition of a dialogue wheel is not evidence of this and we already have tons of examples of BioWare employees saying that Hawke is not going to be a character that's as defined as Shepard is.  Try to keep in mind that you didn't get to give your Warden a last name either.  

[Archereon]

Narren: You don't make decisions in JRPGs, and yet they are considered RPGs in the literal sense, and the experience system, along with the power system, is trivial in Mass Effect compared to the shooter side of the game.

[Narreneth]

Archereon wrote...

Narren: You don't make decisions in JRPGs, and yet they are considered RPGs in the literal sense, and the experience system, along with the power system, is trivial in Mass Effect compared to the shooter side of the game.

Arguing for JRPGs only furthers my point.  You're slapping a definition on RPGs that doesn't exist and trying to keep the definition so narrow it's ridiculous. 

JRPGs are hardly RPGs.  If leveling up and inventory make something an RPG then Borderlands is an RPG.

[Archereon]

Narreneth wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Narren: You don't make decisions in JRPGs, and yet they are considered RPGs in the literal sense, and the experience system, along with the power system, is trivial in Mass Effect compared to the shooter side of the game.

Arguing for JRPGs only furthers my point.  You're slapping a definition on RPGs that doesn't exist and trying to keep the definition so narrow it's ridiculous. 

JRPGs are hardly RPGs.  If leveling up and inventory make something an RPG then Borderlands is an RPG.

I was refering to the less literal sense of an RPG, the type that applies to Dragon Age Origins, not Mass Effect, or any other game with a storyline.  Though its something of a misnomer, I was stating that Mass Effect is not an RPG in the inferred sense of the term.

And that sense of an RPG is as follows generally.

-"Ability" (spells and such) and stat based focus in combat, rather than a fully twitch based combat system.
-Generally an elaborate, though not necessarily alterable storyline.
-Itemization.

Modifié par Archereon, 15 juillet 2010 - 01:23 .

[Nerevar-as]

Narreneth wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Narren: You don't make decisions in JRPGs, and yet they are considered RPGs in the literal sense, and the experience system, along with the power system, is trivial in Mass Effect compared to the shooter side of the game.

Arguing for JRPGs only furthers my point.  You're slapping a definition on RPGs that doesn't exist and trying to keep the definition so narrow it's ridiculous. 

JRPGs are hardly RPGs.  If leveling up and inventory make something an RPG then Borderlands is an RPG.

I´ve seen borderlands clasified as an RPG (haven´t played, have no opinion). Some decades ago most of them consisted in inventory, level up and dungeon crawl. I guess what we have now is a mix between that and a graphic adventure.

[Narreneth]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Narren: You don't make decisions in JRPGs, and yet they are considered RPGs in the literal sense, and the experience system, along with the power system, is trivial in Mass Effect compared to the shooter side of the game.

Arguing for JRPGs only furthers my point.  You're slapping a definition on RPGs that doesn't exist and trying to keep the definition so narrow it's ridiculous. 

JRPGs are hardly RPGs.  If leveling up and inventory make something an RPG then Borderlands is an RPG.

I´ve seen borderlands clasified as an RPG (haven´t played, have no opinion). Some decades ago most of them consisted in inventory, level up and dungeon crawl. I guess what we have now is a mix between that and a graphic adventure.

What we have now (and have had for awhile now) has been a trend towards branching RPGs out into different sectors of gameplay.  The older RPGs (Dragon Warrior, for example) really weren't much of an RPG.  Granted that's what I called it then, because I got to name my character, but ultimately it really wasn't one.  Role Playing Games were pen and paper games where you had a character you created .  The video games calling themselves RPGs were trying to somehow mimic the experience of tabletop games.  

We're a lot closer to that now than we were then. 

[Haexpane]

Streamlined = proactive against complaints of dumbing down. Instead of admitting things are being stripped and gutted, like ME2, (ME1 inventory is bad, yes, but they could have fixed it instead of gutting)



I work in an area that is heavily involved in software development. Streamlined ALWAYS means cutting features or using the most basic features. In 10 years I've never heard a user once complement how "streamlined" a system is.



It's ALWAYS the project managers, upper managers, or dev leads that brag about streamlining.



The most famous version of "streamlined design" Apple Iphailphone 4 w/ the "streamlined" antenna.



What about the imacs that looked like Lamps? Another "streamlined" tech that was garbage